Post by: Shadow on March 18, 2010, 11:57:39 AM
I know they're cheap and all, but crew and TF training is very valuable and not easily obtained. Without refits nor SM-fudging, all that experience is lost. You can build a new fighter in a day, but training (mainly TF) takes at least a couple of years.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on March 18, 2010, 12:13:46 PM
Post by: MoonDragon on March 18, 2010, 12:32:57 PM
Post by: Father Tim on March 18, 2010, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: "MoonDragon"
Perhaps what should be added instead is the ability to move crew (experience) around different ships.
This currently exists, and shuffling two groups of crew together will result in a larger group of averagely-experienced crew. Note that's experience, and not the TF training Shadow was talking about.
Post by: Shadow on March 18, 2010, 08:25:33 PM
I'm going to turn it off on my next game; I don't know how things would work out if I disabled it mid-game.
Post by: MoonDragon on March 19, 2010, 09:09:23 AM
Quote from: "Father Tim"
Quote from: "MoonDragon"Perhaps what should be added instead is the ability to move crew (experience) around different ships.
This currently exists, and shuffling two groups of crew together will result in a larger group of averagely-experienced crew. Note that's experience, and not the TF training Shadow was talking about.
Wait, you're telling me that I can take the crew from one ship, and assign it to another ship? Please elaborate.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on March 19, 2010, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: "Father Tim"
Quote from: "MoonDragon"Perhaps what should be added instead is the ability to move crew (experience) around different ships.
This currently exists, and shuffling two groups of crew together will result in a larger group of averagely-experienced crew. Note that's experience, and not the TF training Shadow was talking about.
To my knowledge this is not possible within Aurora. We only have the functionality to move commanders from ship-to-ship not crew.
Post by: UnLimiTeD on March 19, 2010, 12:45:25 PM
Recently upgraded a ship with more weapons, new armor, generators, and engines, costing roughly 80% of a new ship, and that was a really small system defense cruiser.
The crew had 2000 gradepoints, thats a 34% bonus in missile reload and beam fire accuracy.
I'm not sacrificing that to save a half ship.
Post by: sloanjh on March 19, 2010, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
Which is a pretty confining reason to still refit despite horrendous pricing.I'm not clear why you say this is horrendous pricing. It sounds like you're replacing pretty much every expensive system in the ship.
Recently upgraded a ship with more weapons, new armor, generators, and engines, costing roughly 80% of a new ship, and that was a really small system defense cruiser.
The crew had 2000 gradepoints, thats a 34% bonus in missile reload and beam fire accuracy.
I'm not sacrificing that to save a half ship.
I think there are two surcharges beyond the raw cost of the new components. If you want details then you can probably find them by search for posts from Steve on this:
1) An overall refit surcharge, which is something like 10% IIRC
2) A size-increase charge, which might grow quadratically. This is the one that causes the exhorbitant prices, I think. Basically it says that trying to figure out how to refit a destroyer into an aircraft carrier is a lot more expensive than just building a new carrier.
John
Post by: UnLimiTeD on March 19, 2010, 07:54:31 PM
Yeah, it was every possible thing to change, only the sensors weren't new.
Would have done it for 150% still.
Post by: Shadow on March 19, 2010, 07:57:24 PM
Post by: sloanjh on March 19, 2010, 08:52:52 PM
Quote from: "Shadow"
You wouldn't normally refit a destroyer into a spacecraft carrier, but sometimes you need to do similar things in order to transfer valuable crew, just like in UnLimiTeD's case. But it's already been implied there's a need for a better crew transfer method.
BTW, you are aware that you can set the quality of the crew that you're training, aren't you? It's done from the Race screen (ctrl-F2). Be careful - if you make it higher you'll lose 1/2 of your current crew. The training rate is inversely proportional to the level, so at lvl 5 (which is what I always use) you train crew 1/5 as fast as at lvl 1. lvl 5 will give you a ship that starts with 12% bonus, although you need to build a lot of academies to meet manpower demand if you build a lot of ships.
John
Post by: Shadow on March 19, 2010, 09:23:40 PM
But I was talking about transferring really experienced crew, like UnLimiTeD's. 34% is not a figure you can easily reach, and besides any green crew takes about two years to reach 100% TF training. If you have good officers, that is.
EDIT: *That's got to be the most hidden screen in the game! There's no graphical icon anywhere that I know of, and Ctrl+F2 only works if the game window has focus, but not when the System Map does. By the way, does the training setting affect the quality of the officers/scientists/administrators you receive?
Post by: sloanjh on March 19, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: "Shadow"
EDIT: *That's got to be the most hidden screen in the game! There's no graphical icon anywhere that I know of, and Ctrl+F2 only works if the game window has focus, but not when the System Map does. By the way, does the training setting affect the quality of the officers/scientists/administrators you receive?
It's supposed to be reached from the main menu bar (in the Empires group).
No, the training setting does not affect officers.
John
Post by: UnLimiTeD on March 20, 2010, 07:00:48 AM
It seems 2000 grade points is the highest you can reach without combat.
Post by: Shadow on March 20, 2010, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: "sloanjh"
It's supposed to be reached from the main menu bar (in the Empires group).Well, yes, but all screens save for that one and (I think) Foreign Aid can be easily accessed through the System Map, which I consider the central window, or through other windows. That puts those two screens kind of out of the way.
If not through new icons on the System Map, I'd suggest Race Details be linked in the Population and Production window (there's some room at the bottom), and Foreign aid in the main Diplomacy screen.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on March 20, 2010, 09:09:48 AM
Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
I actually had it only at 2, but seeing how I had around 1.2 billion people total fueling nearly 60 research labs, I couldn't afford any ship, so I could bump it up quite a bit without drawbacks. I rely on my again outdated spaceforce, and I'll soon have to refit those cruisers for around 300% their cost and 5x the time effort into the new destroyer design
It seems 2000 grade points is the highest you can reach without combat.
If your refitting with those level of costs your better off just building new and training up new crews.
Post by: MoonDragon on March 20, 2010, 10:30:04 AM
Post by: Shadow on March 23, 2010, 09:28:48 AM
Post by: Charlie Beeler on March 23, 2010, 11:25:59 AM
Quote from: "Shadow"
Another somewhat related question: how do you repair fighters?
That functionality isn't currently available. It is on the suggestions list.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on March 25, 2010, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: "Shadow"
Another somewhat related question: how do you repair fighters?If a fighter (or any other ship) is in a hangar bay, you can repair it using the damage control rating and maintenance supplies of the mothership. Just set the systems to be repaired in the Damage Control tab of the Ship window for the fighter and the mothership DC/supplies will automatically be used if they are greater than the parasite/fighter. You can create a repair ship by designing a class with hangar bays, damage control and lots of maintenance supplies. If the hangar bay is 6000 tons for example, you could repair ships of up to 6000 tons using this method, or a lot of fighters at once. The only thing you can't repair in this way is armour.
Steve
Post by: Charlie Beeler on March 26, 2010, 06:42:59 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Shadow"Another somewhat related question: how do you repair fighters?If a fighter (or any other ship) is in a hangar bay, you can repair it using the damage control rating and maintenance supplies of the mothership. Just set the systems to be repaired in the Damage Control tab of the Ship window for the fighter and the mothership DC/supplies will automatically be used if they are greater than the parasite/fighter. You can create a repair ship by designing a class with hangar bays, damage control and lots of maintenance supplies. If the hangar bay is 6000 tons for example, you could repair ships of up to 6000 tons using this method, or a lot of fighters at once. The only thing you can't repair in this way is armour.
Steve
I did forget about this functionality.
Steve, we do still need a means to repair fighter armor. Either fighter factory function or shipyard. I'm sure that this is already on your looong list of needful things.
Post by: waresky on March 26, 2010, 06:52:21 AM
Quote from: "Charlie Beeler"
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"Quote from: "Shadow"Another somewhat related question: how do you repair fighters?If a fighter (or any other ship) is in a hangar bay, you can repair it using the damage control rating and maintenance supplies of the mothership. Just set the systems to be repaired in the Damage Control tab of the Ship window for the fighter and the mothership DC/supplies will automatically be used if they are greater than the parasite/fighter. You can create a repair ship by designing a class with hangar bays, damage control and lots of maintenance supplies. If the hangar bay is 6000 tons for example, you could repair ships of up to 6000 tons using this method, or a lot of fighters at once. The only thing you can't repair in this way is armour.
Steve
I did forget about this functionality.
Steve, we do still need a means to repair fighter armor. Either fighter factory function or shipyard. I'm sure that this is already on your looong list of needful things. :D