Post by: Nikolaj on April 26, 2010, 10:55:03 AM
1) It took me a couple of hours to find the event log (it would have been nice if that was covered in the first tutorial :)
Post by: The Shadow on April 26, 2010, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
2) I have yet to build jump gates, but I'd like some clarification on how they work. If I build one in the Sol system, does that mean that any ship of any size can travel through to whichever system it connects to? I assume I'd have to build a corresponding gate in that system to get back, though, is that correct?
Correct. And they won't need jump drives at all.
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3) In fact, I haven't done a whole lot of exploration thus far. I've mostly dealt with research, mining and colonization. But I'd like some suggestions for early game scout ships. What kind of engine, jump drive, etc? Do I put weapons on it, or can that wait? What about geological and gravitational scanners, to map out the systems I explore? Active scanners? How do people go about exploration in general?
Well, as usual in Aurora, there are a variety of different approaches to this.
Some people like to put a jump drive on every survey ship, because of the flexibility this affords. Others like to create specialized jump tenders for this purpose, which allows the surveyors to save on space.
You will definitely want grav or geo sensors. Or even both, if you want to go for a larger survey craft. Specialization in this area is usually a good idea, though.
It's probably a good idea to put at least a few layers of armor on survey ships, in case they run into nebulae. They probably don't need weaponry - if they run into trouble they're probably dead anyway. (They use so much space on sensors they can't really be competitive, though people have come up with clever ways to try.)
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4) Regarding geological teams, I read somewhere that it's a good idea to train them up to at least 150 before using them on important planets/moons. I have one team working on some asteroid, and they've been at it for about 7 years now (although I've disbanded and recreated the team a few times, due to death and the recruitment of better team members). Is it really supposed to take that long? At this rate, they're all going to die natural deaths long before the team gets to 150. Does it have anything to do with the asteroid? Should I put them on a moon or planet instead?
Geo teams are very hit or miss. They can survey a planet in a few months, or they can take years, it's the luck of the draw. I wouldn't worry about getting them up as high as 150, but I wouldn't start them on Earth, either.
Post by: Judicator on April 26, 2010, 12:44:13 PM
Incidentally, how high in terms of rating can a team go before they max out? Is it 150 as the quote said?
Grav sensors are solely for the task of surveying survey points to find jump points. In my untested opinion, wouldn't jump gates be better in the far run as they don't need tending to in terms of overhaul, and they're a bit more on the permanent side if you protect them with some token guards at the least.
In terms of hyperdrive engines, I would recommend researching efficiency so that they go down in size somewhat and won't take up an offensively large amount of space as well as better suiting them so they can be used on your larger ships.
Post by: Nikolaj on April 26, 2010, 01:27:58 PM
Concerning my scout design. What kind of sensors would you recommend, beyond the geo/grav sensors? Should I put some passive sensors on it? Maybe an active sensor (I'm not really sure if that one has much use outside of combat)?
Post by: sloanjh on April 26, 2010, 01:28:47 PM
Quote from: "Judicator"
I would recommend sticking the survey team on any planets that have significant amounts of minerals and not waste their time puttering around on asteroids or comets.The reason this is not such a good idea is that the probability of a "nothing left to find" message goes up for low-quality survey teams. 150 is about the level at which this effect goes away, i.e. a 500 team has the same chance of depleting a body as a 200 team. A possible reason that Nikolaj's team is taking so long is that its skill level is REALLY low (e.g. less than 100) - this means that the first time it finds minerals it's also likely to deplete the body - you don't want to do this on your home world.
I always use pretty much the best 5 survey officers I have for my geosurvey team.
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Then I would recommend having them cruise around on your geo sensor ship surveying planets for materials, or asteroids if you still need to build up their skill.Geosurvey teams (not instruments, the teams) are only working if they're in a colony on a body. You can make an "empty" colony that will contain only the team, btw. They won't do anything if they're sitting on a ship. I tend to leave mine on the body they're on until they survey it out....
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Incidentally, how high in terms of rating can a team go before they max out? Is it 150 as the quote said?As far as I know there's no limit - I don't think skill levels are bounded above at 100 (although I might be wrong). And the quote didn't say 150 is the max, the quote said that he'd seen that it's a good idea to train them up to at least 150, which it is.
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In my untested opinion, wouldn't jump gates be better in the far run as they don't need tending to in terms of overhaul, and they're a bit more on the permanent side if you protect them with some token guards at the least.There are a whole host of back threads dealing with the trade offs between jump gates and jump-engine-equiped ships. The primary disadvantage of jump gates is that the bad guys can use them to attack your system - think of them kind of like bridges that can't be blown in ground warfare.... That and the time it takes to build them.
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In terms of hyperdrive engines, I would recommend researching efficiency so that they go down in size somewhat and won't take up an offensively large amount of space as well as better suiting them so they can be used on your larger ships.Why are you talking about hyperdrive engines? Do you mean jump engines? Hyperdrive engines are for rapid travel outside a star's hyper limit (mostly to distant binaries or planets/asteroids/comets). New players should probably not bother messing with them.
John
Post by: Nikolaj on April 26, 2010, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: "sloanjh"
Quote from: "Judicator"I would recommend sticking the survey team on any planets that have significant amounts of minerals and not waste their time puttering around on asteroids or comets.The reason this is not such a good idea is that the probability of a "nothing left to find" message goes up for low-quality survey teams. 150 is about the level at which this effect goes away, i.e. a 500 team has the same chance of depleting a body as a 200 team. A possible reason that Nikolaj's team is taking so long is that its skill level is REALLY low (e.g. less than 100) - this means that the first time it finds minerals it's also likely to deplete the body - you don't want to do this on your home world.
I always use pretty much the best 5 survey officers I have for my geosurvey team.
I read the post where the survey teams were introduced, and it said something about the teams chance of finding something depending on the chance of that planet/moon/asteroid generating a mineral when it was created (I think so, at least, but I can't find the thread anymore). Could it be that the team has a better chance of finding something on, say, a moon, rather than an asteroid? Does the team have any chance of finding anything, if the moon/planet/asteroid doesn't already have resources?
Basically, I'd like to build up my team's skills, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that asap, without screwing over Earth.
Post by: Father Tim on April 26, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
Anyway, you can also get a list of the current time advance's events to show on the F3 'System' screen, if you tick the option box on the display tab. Of course, taht only helps if you're the kind of person who plays Aurora from the F3 'System' screen.
As an aside, Steve plays on a dual monitor setup, with the events list always open on one side. I play with the F2 'Population & Production' open on top and aligned to the top of the screen, which leaves just enough room at the bottom to display 5-6 lines of the Ctrl-F3 'Events' window.
2. Yes, and yes. Keep in mind that anyone can use anyone's Jump Gates, so building them is also known as 'building a highway for invasion'.
3. Armour 4, commercial engine, 1-2 geo survey sensor, 1-2 grav survey sensor, fuel tanks, engineering, commercial jump engine big enough to move the ship (Note that the grav sensor makes it a military design, so it will need to be built in a military shipyard) - then adjust to taste. If your ship is too slow, add engines. If it takes forever to survey a location/planet, add more sensors. If it runs out of fuel halfway through the second system, add fuel tanks. If it keeps breaking down and exploding, add engineering spaces and maintenance storage bays. If you encounter a thick nebula, add armour to keep the speed up. If you add anything, you'll probably need to increase the jump engine, unless you overbuilt it in the first place.
If you want it to be good at First Contact situations, add powerful (large) Active, Thermal, and/or EM sensors. Don't bother with weapons (though you can include CIWS if you really want to) because you can't mount enough of them to be useful. Though I suppose if your empire is genocidal enough a planetary bombardment weapon of some sort (10cm Meson or Sz 1 missile launcher) can be useful 'pour encourager les habitants!'
4. Geo teams only work on Colonies, so make sure you've added one to the asteroid in question. (Colonies, not populations - there is a difference.) Double-check that they didn't finish the survey years ago and you just missed the message - or if you aren't sure, move them to another colony.
Max team skill is 1275 (255 * 5 team members).
Personally I consider 'training up' Geo teams on less-valuable rocks to be 'cheating', but since the chance of exhausting a system body is illogically based on the team's skill, I can see the argument the other way.
Post by: StratPlayer on April 26, 2010, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
I read the post where the survey teams were introduced, and it said something about the teams chance of finding something depending on the chance of that planet/moon/asteroid generating a mineral when it was created (I think so, at least, but I can't find the thread anymore). Could it be that the team has a better chance of finding something on, say, a moon, rather than an asteroid? Does the team have any chance of finding anything, if the moon/planet/asteroid doesn't already have resources?
Basically, I'd like to build up my team's skills, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that asap, without screwing over Earth.
It's still a bit sketchy to me, but from what I can figure out, it seems to be that there's basically a random level of minerals set on a body when it's created, and the chance of a geosurvey team finding the maximum level of those minerals is based on its skill level.
The killer seems to be that once that team says it has found all the minerals, then that's it, even if there were more to find. You can't later send a higher-level survey team to re-survey, giving that body the once-over to see if the original low-level team 'missed' any.
And since your home-world (Earth) is set to typically have a higher preloaded 'random' starting mineral level, you'll have much more you can miss if a survey team with a low skill level misses them during it's survey. Plus, for a good while, your homewhorld is your only decent source of minerals, and missing any there really hurts.
At least that's my understanding. Please feel to correct me if I'm off-base.
Post by: Father Tim on April 26, 2010, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
I read the post where the survey teams were introduced, and it said something about the teams chance of finding something depending on the chance of that planet/moon/asteroid generating a mineral when it was created (I think so, at least, but I can't find the thread anymore). Could it be that the team has a better chance of finding something on, say, a moon, rather than an asteroid? Does the team have any chance of finding anything, if the moon/planet/asteroid doesn't already have resources?
Basically, I'd like to build up my team's skills, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that asap, without screwing over Earth. :)
First - and sorry I forgot to say this earlier - a Geo Team can't find anything on a body that has not been surveyed yet. Since geo survey has been an intrinsic part of the game from day 1, and geo teams were added years later, Steve never considered the possibility that people would try to send a team (which he conceived of as 'double-checking the survey results in an effort to see if anything was missed') to a place that hadn't been surveyed yet. Now that he has considered it, I believe (due to the aforementioned conception) that he has chosen not to allow it - though possibly not yet added the error message that 'You must geo survey a body before a Geo Team can perform its job there.'
The initial mineral generation routines for a system include the mass of a body in two ways - it increases the amount of a particular mineral present, and decreases the availability. Thus big, heavy planets tend to have tens of millions of tons at acc 0.1-0.4, whereas asteroids have a few thousand tons at acc 0.7-1.0
The size of a body affects Geo Team results, in that the 'event' of a discovery of 200,000 tons of mineral X on a planet would be more like 2,000 tons on an asteroid. It does not affect the chance of a discovery, nor of which particular 'event' is discovered.
There is still a chance of discovering something on an otherwise mineral-less body, though I do not know if the 'increased accessability of a random mineral' event becomes 'no event' or 'roll again' if there are no minerals. So you might have only half the chance of finding something on a mineral-free body.
Post by: Father Tim on April 26, 2010, 03:02:25 PM
Quote from: "StratPlayer"
It's still a bit sketchy to me, but from what I can figure out, it seems to be that there's basically a random level of minerals set on a body when it's created, and the chance of a geosurvey team finding the maximum level of those minerals is based on its skill level.
Yup, except it's "more", not "the maximum level" The body is created with a bunch of minerals at various accessibilities, and each Geo Team 'success' increases either the amount or the accessibility of a mineral.
Quote from: "StratPlayer"
The killer seems to be that once that team says it has found all the minerals, then that's it, even if there were more to find. You can't later send a higher-level survey team to re-survey, giving that body the once-over to see if the original low-level team 'missed' any.
Yup. Many people consider this a bug and have brought the matter to Steve's attention. Various more 'realistic' solutions have been suggested.
Quote from: "StratPlayer"
And since your home-world (Earth) is set to typically have a higher preloaded 'random' starting mineral level, you'll have much more you can miss if a survey team with a low skill level misses them during it's survey. Plus, for a good while, your homewhorld is your only decent source of minerals, and missing any there really hurts.
Not quite. "Homeworld Minerals" gives almost all minerals at much higher accessibility than they would naturally have but at much lower total amount than would be 'realistic' because otherwise there wouldn't be much pressure to move off the homeworld. It's designed to get you started, then run out.
The chance of your Geo Team discovering any more is independent of the amount you have, though it's convenient that anything they do discover is right there where all your mines are.
Quote from: "StratPlayer"
At least that's my understanding. Please feel to correct me if I'm off-base.
Pretty close.
Post by: Nikolaj on April 26, 2010, 06:36:58 PM
Thanks again, I feel like I'm getting the hang of it, but I know there's still a long way to go. I still haven't seen any combat.
Post by: dooots on April 26, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1172 (http://aurora.pentarch.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1172) for the info. There is an update on page 2.
Post by: randal7 on April 26, 2010, 08:09:26 PM
Quote from: "dooots"
According to the topic on geology teams in the mechanics forum you only need to train the team up to 120. At 120 each time the team finds minerals it has a 30% chance of deciding there are no more minerals to be found.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1172 (http://aurora.pentarch.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1172) for the info. There is an update on page 2.
However, the chance per interval, and hence the time involved, to find a new deposit is a factor of the skill level as well. It is not clear in the link just how big a factor the skill level plays. Anecdotally, once my teams hit 150+ discoveries seem noticably faster; I've had a team find minerals three months in a row at high skill levels.
I've also wondered if smaller bodies take longer to find new deposits for some reason. Anecdotal evidence again, but chunks and asteroids seem much slower. I've never actually had the patience to leave a team on an asteroid long enough to find minerals; I give up and move after 3-4 years.
Post by: Nikolaj on April 26, 2010, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: "randal7"
However, the chance per interval, and hence the time involved, to find a new deposit is a factor of the skill level as well. It is not clear in the link just how big a factor the skill level plays. Anecdotally, once my teams hit 150+ discoveries seem noticably faster; I've had a team find minerals three months in a row at high skill levels.
I've also wondered if smaller bodies take longer to find new deposits for some reason. Anecdotal evidence again, but chunks and asteroids seem much slower. I've never actually had the patience to leave a team on an asteroid long enough to find minerals; I give up and move after 3-4 years.
That's my observation, too, although I haven't played for that long, so it could just be coincidence. I disbanded the team on the asteroid, where they'd been stationed for about 10 years with zero results, and moved them to Mars. The very next month they found a deposit, and again for the following two months. That's 3 months in a row, after a 10 year drought.
Post by: dooots on April 27, 2010, 01:01:06 AM
Post by: Nikolaj on April 27, 2010, 08:08:22 AM
Post by: UnLimiTeD on April 27, 2010, 08:31:11 AM
Post by: Nikolaj on April 27, 2010, 10:48:24 AM
1) I bumped into an alien race one jump from Sol. They have a planet there, and that's how I found them. I don't know if they've seen me yet. Ideally, I'd like peaceful relations, but I don't know anything about them, or even if they know about me. I've already put a diplomatic team to work, but I haven't contacted them yet. I read in another thread that I should turn on the transponder on the ship that found them, to alert them to my presence. However, I don't know how to do that, and I'm not sure it's a good idea. Any advice would be welcome.
2) I've decided to colonize Titan, considering all the minerals it has. the cost is somewhat high (about 8-9), but I have some terraformers to spare, and I'm not in a hurry. The moon has no hydrosphere, however, and I'd assume that one of those would be necessary to sustain human life. Does that matter in the game (apart from the fact that the albedo won't change), or can I go ahead an colonize it?
3) I'm still looking for advice regarding mining ships, although my immediate need for minerals isn't as high as it used to be. Basically, I'm interested in whether it's actually worth the bother to use them. Also, assuming that people think it is, how many modules should I put on a ship? Should I build one really big one, or several smaller ones?
Thanks again for all the tips and clarifications, it's helping me out a lot.
Post by: Judicator on April 27, 2010, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
3) I'm still looking for advice regarding mining ships, although my immediate need for minerals isn't as high as it used to be. Basically, I'm interested in whether it's actually worth the bother to use them. Also, assuming that people think it is, how many modules should I put on a ship? Should I build one really big one, or several smaller ones?
Thanks again for all the tips and clarifications, it's helping me out a lot.
It's all a matter of perspective. You may or you may not want to mine them, it really depends how much minerals the asteroids have that make it worthwhile or not.
On the matter of big vs. small asteroid miners, since you claim you don't have an urgent need for materials, I would say make a few big ones, as you can afford the wait of construction so you can have the luxury of fast and large mining, and you can simply plop an automine or two on there to transport the materials back to your planet, or if the asteroids are in another system you'll have to use a freighter, but that shouldn't be too bad.
Likewise, if you DID have a need for quick minerals... small, cost-effective miners would be the way to go until you could manage a big yield miner or two. So go with the big one.
Post by: Nikolaj on April 28, 2010, 11:44:30 AM
The situation with the aliens resolved itself, since they suddenly decided to grant me trade access, although I hadn't even established communications yet. After that I made contact, and I'm now on friendly terms with them.
Post by: sloanjh on April 28, 2010, 01:45:01 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
I read in another thread that I should turn on the transponder on the ship that found them, to alert them to my presence. However, I don't know how to do that, and I'm not sure it's a good idea. Any advice would be welcome.My recollection is that it was a fairly new user that posted the bit about transponders. As far as I know, there's no diplomatic benefit from turning on your transponders. The one thing you might want to do is let them get a sensor hit on you (e.g. turn on your actives until you're sure that they've detected them, then turn them off). This will let them assign a diplomatic team to you, which will make your attitude towards them start rising earlier, which means you'll be able to grant them trade access earlier, which means that their attitude towards you will start going up faster (from the trade access) earlier.
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The moon has no hydrosphere, however, and I'd assume that one of those would be necessary to sustain human life. Does that matter in the game (apart from the fact that the albedo won't change), or can I go ahead an colonize it?I thought that planets with no water were supposed to have minimum cost 1.0, but the last time I terraformed one it came out at 0.0. So I don't think it matters.
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3) I'm still looking for advice regarding mining ships, although my immediate need for minerals isn't as high as it used to be. Basically, I'm interested in whether it's actually worth the bother to use them. Also, assuming that people think it is, how many modules should I put on a ship? Should I build one really big one, or several smaller ones?I never bother with them (mining ships).
John
Post by: Nikolaj on April 28, 2010, 04:09:40 PM
I've run into a new problem. A ship of mine was hit by about 20 missiles within 15 seconds. It was surveying WX Ursae Majoris-B II for minerals at the time, but I'd forgotten to put any sensors on it besides geo and grav sensors, so I didn't spot the missiles untill just before they hit, and I don't know who fired them. The ship somehow survived, but is totally cripled. I never found out who attacked me, and why they stopped firing. Is there some way that I can send another ship to repair the first one? If so, what component does it need to do that?
Edit: Oh, well, the ship exploded a month later. I'd still be interested to know if there's a repair module of some kind. I know there's a maintenance component, but I suspect that it can only be used to repair the ship it's installed on.
Post by: Beersatron on April 28, 2010, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: "Nikolaj"
Thanks for the answers. It certainly would make sense if planets and moons without water had a minimum colony cost. Maybe that will be changed at some point.
I've run into a new problem. A ship of mine was hit by about 20 missiles within 15 seconds. It was surveying WX Ursae Majoris-B II for minerals at the time, but I'd forgotten to put any sensors on it besides geo and grav sensors, so I didn't spot the missiles untill just before they hit, and I don't know who fired them. The ship somehow survived, but is totally cripled. I never found out who attacked me, and why they stopped firing. Is there some way that I can send another ship to repair the first one? If so, what component does it need to do that?
Edit: Oh, well, the ship exploded a month later. I'd still be interested to know if there's a repair module of some kind. I know there's a maintenance component, but I suspect that it can only be used to repair the ship it's installed on.
[spoiler:26dbui4w]You were more than likely hit by a Precursor Minefield when you entered orbit for the Geosurvey[/spoiler:26dbui4w]
Did you go into the ship screen and initiate the combat repairs? I can not remember the short-cut and exact name of the tab, but from the screen you can set up repairs that will use on-board maintenance. The ship probably blew up because you had ran out of maintenance units and too many components had fallen out of repair.
Personally, as a general rule, I put about 5 times the amount of maintenance units in a ship design as the 'maximum repair cost'.
If your survey ship is say 4000 tonnes then you can build a ship with hangar capacity of 4000 and designate it as a Repair Vessel. You can then have the survey vessel land and repair it that way. Think it costs less this way (it may even be automatic?).
Post by: UnLimiTeD on April 28, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
They won't repair armor as far as I know.
You could also build a Tug (Fast ship with a tractor beam) and tow your damaged ship back to the next ship yard.
Post by: Nikolaj on April 28, 2010, 05:15:10 PM
I didn't look at the combat repair tab. Since this was my first engagement, I still don't know how combat works. The ship did have about 3 times the needed supplies, though, but it had lost most of its systems, including all engines, the jump drive and the bridge, so I guess it was pretty much done for in any case. Too bad for the newly appointed captain, whose predecessor died during combat when the bridge exploded. He arrived just in time to blow up along with his ship.
