Post by: laz on June 10, 2010, 06:48:49 AM
I've met three NPR races. From reading the log files I know theres at least 3 more I've yet to encounter.
The two I've met are
1)The Saint Lo Commonwealth:
My first NPR contact
Initially they sent a few ships to Sol were we had first contact. They then sent a massive amount of ships to Earth, I thought they were about to go hostile and start bombarding the planet as it was early in the game and so my navy was pretty pathetic. They turned out to be friendly and eventually over the course of the game theve become allied with me. Their homeworld is 2 jumps from sol.
Over the last hundred years of game play they have expanded away from my homeworld and seem to recognise that I control Sol and the surrounding star systems. They haven't even built a jumpgate to the Teegarden system which is between their homeworld and mine. Is this them recognising the borders of my territory as my ally? They do have the odd ship in my space but not near any inhabited planet.
They have fought with two other NPR's one of which I have recently met but yet to establish contact with. I sent a ship with cloack technology to explore their space and map out their jump points and i stumbled across the home system of a NPR hostile to them recently as I found several wrecks in orbit around the star systems.
2) The Lesnovo Heirarchy
These were my second NPR contact. A survey ship showed up in one of my colony systems. despite diplomatic gestures they still consider me a hostile race. So eventually I decided to intercept and destroy the survey ship. I've yet to find out where they originated from as I have explored a vast number of star systems beyond that star system. The only other jump point is back to Sol. Can I eventually expect to have a fleet of theirs make a strike on my colony world which they would have detected?
3) Wolf#59 Aliens
I've only just made contact with this race. They appear to be in conflict with my allied NPR neighbour as their are multiple wrecks in my allies home system and their home system has several Commonwealth wreckws as well. How does an NPR respond to the ally of a race they percieve as hostile?
Post by: Beersatron on June 10, 2010, 09:04:22 AM
I do not think that the AI takes into consideration the diplomatic rating between you and another AI, fairly sure that it is based off diplomacy, militancy and xeno ratings for the race and isn't weighted by other existing treaties.
What level of alliance do you have with the Commonwealth? Can you station some combat ships in their system to help defend it? Just be careful you have enough standings in order to use your active search sensors otherwise they will get mad at you.
You should build a JG network to the friendly Homeworld, that should trigger trade.
What version are you on and if the Stevefire.mdb file is not too large is there anyway you could share it out? I wouldn't mind having a look at a game that has 6 NPRs! It might even be a good example for Steve to use if he has the time to work on the AI ... which he probably doesn't atm
Post by: welchbloke on June 10, 2010, 03:38:46 PM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
NPR AI is a tricky one, Steve puts in stuff and tells us about it but then will also put in stuff for us to find out for ourselves!This game sounds remarkably like mine, the key differences I can see are that I have only had nearly 7 years of game time yet there are Star Swarm, Precursors, Invaders and 4 NPRs in addition to my race (Celtic Empire). I discovered the at start NPR within 3 jumps of home and they are trading with me (DR 327ish). I have encountered one of the other NPRs and the third one appears to be in conflict with the at-start NPR (2 of their fleets pretty much annihilated each other recently). I wonder how common these situations are?
I do not think that the AI takes into consideration the diplomatic rating between you and another AI, fairly sure that it is based off diplomacy, militancy and xeno ratings for the race and isn't weighted by other existing treaties.
What level of alliance do you have with the Commonwealth? Can you station some combat ships in their system to help defend it? Just be careful you have enough standings in order to use your active search sensors otherwise they will get mad at you.
You should build a JG network to the friendly Homeworld, that should trigger trade.
What version are you on and if the Stevefire.mdb file is not too large is there anyway you could share it out? I wouldn't mind having a look at a game that has 6 NPRs! It might even be a good example for Steve to use if he has the time to work on the AI ... which he probably doesn't atm
Post by: Beersatron on June 10, 2010, 03:40:55 PM
The NPR has surveyed about 30 systems and found a really good 0.1 cost planet. But, they don't have any JGCs and they have the FAC creation bug I've mentioned before - which seems to mean they are stuck in building loop.
I cheated and SM'd JGs from their homeworld to the 0.1 so hopefully they use it. Problem is, they arepretty sunk in terms of minerals.
Post by: welchbloke on June 10, 2010, 04:05:18 PM
Post by: laz on June 10, 2010, 05:06:21 PM
The Stevemb file is 786 megs big. I'll upload it though it might take awhile. Might as well share it out as the game has been going on for 150+ years.
Will post a link once its uploaded
Post by: Maximillian on June 10, 2010, 08:50:43 PM
Quote from: "laz"
game version is 5.14
The Stevemb file is 786 megs big. I'll upload it though it might take awhile. Might as well share it out as the game has been going on for 150+ years.
Will post a link once its uploaded
The 'compact database' button may be your friend in this case.
Max
Post by: laz on June 11, 2010, 04:56:34 AM
Error 429
Unable to find Activex component
Error 3420
in update gamelog
generated by DAO database
object invalid or no longer set
Post by: Hawkeye on June 11, 2010, 03:30:09 PM
Post by: laz on June 11, 2010, 03:51:55 PM
Tah Dah
Post by: Beersatron on June 11, 2010, 08:03:06 PM
[spoiler:pm8vt2bl]There are 23 races listed in your game, of those one is your race, another is the invader, another is precursor and another is star swarm.
That leaves 19 NPRs .....
I haven't checked them all, but:
One of the NPRs is very small - I think it is pre-TN.
Some are huge[/spoiler:pm8vt2bl]
I haven't got through everything yet, but if you want to know more then I can get you some galaxy maps from the NPRs (if you don't already have them?).
Post by: Beersatron on June 11, 2010, 11:20:30 PM
*edit*
I have attached the Galaxy Map for Saint Lo Commonwealth - took me about 2 or more hours to sort the systems on the map seeing as the AI has no need to lay them out all pretty like!
Post by: laz on June 12, 2010, 05:00:13 AM
I don't mind finding out this information as im curious how my race is developing compared to other species. I know there are plenty of directions for me to expand in as I have found quite lush worlds to develop with high mineral content in neighbouring systems.
Not suprised the Saint Lo Commonwealth have that kind of star map they have been sending out ships left right and centre all over the place. They seem to be running out of minerals due to the amount of ships they have.
Post by: Beersatron on June 12, 2010, 07:13:16 PM
Quote from: "laz"
How do you get that kind of information from generated NPR's?
I don't mind finding out this information as im curious how my race is developing compared to other species. I know there are plenty of directions for me to expand in as I have found quite lush worlds to develop with high mineral content in neighbouring systems.
Not suprised the Saint Lo Commonwealth have that kind of star map they have been sending out ships left right and centre all over the place. They seem to be running out of minerals due to the amount of ships they have.
There is a higher level to the SM functions but Steve has asked that anybody who knows how to get to them does not pass the information out because you can seriously ruin the game by a simple mis-click.
The Saint Lo Commonwealth are completely allied to 3 other NPRs and at war with 1 which may be why they have such a large Galaxy Map.
I had a quick look at your ship designs, have you been in any combat yet? Your designs look very fragile and I am not sure some of the weapons will actually be usable. You are missing a Fire Control for the DEs anti-missile launchers and the PDC missile bases don't have a FC either.
Hopefully Steve sees this thread and grabs the database, not sure he has ever progressed it to the point were there are this many NPRs and so many known systems.
Post by: laz on June 12, 2010, 08:51:33 PM
The DE anti-missile I didn't notice thanks for pointing out, must of been when i refitted the 4 ships I have. I've upgraded the Phalanx missiles they use so that will be the designs 4th refit.
The only combat I've had in this game so far is a brief incursion by a geo survey ship.
Those Ships, the Ostroc, Raven and Spider Class are refits of early designs from the beginning of the game. So there about 100+ years old refitted with new engines, armour and shields. I've been quite lazy updating the designs.
The Defiance is a carrier design with Duan Guang fighters. There quite old fighter designs I could probably build better now with the tech I have. The carrier is old tech I know its quite a weak design but I didn't really intend it to be in direct fire of hostiles
The Sirroco is my fleet SWAC ship. Its basically an early warning craft with big sensors of all sorts.
I've been planning to build a proper fleet in preparation for a hostile NPR war. This was going to be my battleship design which I was working on last night to develop. This is the first time I've designed such a large warship so I've no idea what makes a good "battleship" design. Seeing as your taking an interest a bit of feedback would be nice.
Code: [Select]
Emperor class Battleship 46600 tons 4285 Crew 12797 BP TCS 932 TH 600 EM 600
2682 km/s Armour 30-115 Shields 20-400 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 101 PPV 298
Annual Failure Rate: 214% IFR: 3% Maint Capacity 13904 MSP Max Repair 620 MSP Est Time: 4.09 Years
Flag Bridge Magazine 1958
Naval Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive (20) Power 125 Fuel Use 40% Signature 30 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,500,000 Litres Range 144.8 billion km (625 days at full power)
Theta Shields Mk1 (5) Total Fuel Cost 80 Litres per day
Quad Naval 25cm Soft X-ray Laser Turret (2x4) Range 360,000km TS: 12500 km/s Power 64-20 RM 6 ROF 20 16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 10 9
Quad Gauss Cannon Mk2 Turret (2x20) Range 50,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Basic CIWS (1x6) Range 1000 km TS: 16000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Beam Fire Control Mk3 (4) Max Range: 360,000 km TS: 10000 km/s 97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Standard Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor (4) Total Power Output 40 Armour 2 Exp 5%
Baracuda Missile Launcher Mk2 (6) Missile Size 10 Rate of Fire 60
Bruticus Missile Launcher (2) Missile Size 45 Rate of Fire 270
Baracuda Mk2 Fire Control (2) Range 58.3m km Resolution 60
Bruticus Missile Fire Control (2) Range 58.3m km Resolution 60
Missile Active Search Sensor (1) GPS 16 Range 96k km Resolution 1
ECCM-3 (5) ECM 30Part of the reason im doing a game without precursors is so I can fight NPR ships and see what kind of opposition they throw at me.
Just briefly explain my missile design series.
Phalanx series = AMM Size 1
Baracuda series= Standard ASM Size 10
Stinger series= Short range ASM or multi-warhead missile, thermal sensor guidance Size 6
Bruticus series= MIRV with x5 stinger missiles same range as the Baracuda Size 45
Trident series= PDC ASM missile's Size 7
Satan series= Enhanced Radiation Missile for attacking planets Size 7
In addition to this design I was looking to build a dedicated missile cruiser, collier, a fighter/bomber design, a smaller missile series that could be fired in mass salvo's, and updated and improved DE's, and frigates.
Post by: Beersatron on June 12, 2010, 09:40:46 PM
Code: [Select]
Emperor class Battlecruiser 30000 tons 3142 Crew 8846.5 BP TCS 600 TH 900 EM 0
6250 km/s Armour 20-86 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 40 PPV 188
Annual Failure Rate: 180% IFR: 2.5% Maint Capacity 7372 MSP Max Repair 620 MSP Est Time: 3.15 Years
Flag Bridge Magazine 1000
Naval Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive (30) Power 125 Fuel Use 40% Signature 30 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres Range 105.0 billion km (194 days at full power)
Quad Naval 25cm Soft X-ray Laser Turret (2x4) Range 240,000km TS: 12500 km/s Power 64-20 RM 6 ROF 20 16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 10 9
Beam Fire Control Mk2 (1) Max Range: 240,000 km TS: 7500 km/s 96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Tokamak Fusion Reactor (5) Total Power Output 40 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Baracuda Missile Launcher (10) Missile Size 10 Rate of Fire 150
Baracuda Missile Fire Control (1) Range 31.7m km Resolution 55
Baracuda Mk2 Anti-ship Missile (100) Speed: 30,000 km/s End: 20m Range: 36m km WH: 10 Size: 10 TH: 420 / 252 / 126
Basic Active Search Sensor (1) GPS 8000 Range 48.0m km Resolution 100
ECCM-3 (2) ECM 30
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I see you have already made a mk3 Beam Fire Control which is what I was going to suggest.
Not sure you need to put in the Gauss Cannons, but you should maybe try and see if you can get a newer CIWS and put that in as integrated Anti-Missile.
I also upped the speed and decreased the armor.
The blurp I would give for the above would be:
A Battlecruiser designed for mid to short range combat, on initial approach it flushes it's missiles and then closes to knife range to engage with powerful lasers. It is designed to be escorted by dedicated Anti-Missile destroyers.
Just my own preferences
Post by: laz on June 13, 2010, 06:27:58 AM
Ah I guess what doesn't help is the newer power plants are internally armoured
Code: [Select]
Emperor class Battlecruiser 31750 tons 3248 Crew 9599 BP TCS 635 TH 900 EM 0
5905 km/s Armour 20-89 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 67 PPV 188
Annual Failure Rate: 171% IFR: 2.4% Maint Capacity 8881 MSP Max Repair 620 MSP Est Time: 3.59 Years
Flag Bridge Magazine 1000
Naval Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive (30) Power 125 Fuel Use 40% Signature 30 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres Range 106.3 billion km (208 days at full power)
Quad Naval 25cm Soft X-ray Laser Turret (2x4) Range 360,000km TS: 12500 km/s Power 64-20 RM 6 ROF 20 16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 10 9
CIWS Mk2 (1x10) Range 1000 km TS: 32000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Beam Fire Control Mk3 (1) Max Range: 360,000 km TS: 10000 km/s 97 94 92 89 86 83 81 78 75 72
Standard Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor (4) Total Power Output 40 Armour 2 Exp 5%
Baracuda Missile Launcher Mk2 (10) Missile Size 10 Rate of Fire 60
Baracuda Mk2 Fire Control (1) Range 58.3m km Resolution 60
Baracuda Mk3 Anti-Ship Missile (100) Speed: 37,500 km/s End: 20m Range: 45m km WH: 16 Size: 10 TH: 525 / 315 / 157
Basic Active Search Sensor (1) GPS 8000 Range 48.0m km Resolution 100
ECCM-3 (2) ECM 30
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
Post by: Beersatron on June 13, 2010, 03:11:41 PM
Post by: laz on June 13, 2010, 04:24:33 PM
Post by: UnLimiTeD on June 13, 2010, 05:50:29 PM
I mean, I suppose you will use multiple ships of that class.
Also, maybe use backup sensors, and get a heavily armored sensor ship for the actual spotting?
If you use multiple ships, single Gauss turrets, used in cohesion, might actually do a better job than CIWS, which to my knowledge only defend the ship they are mounted on.
Post by: Beersatron on June 13, 2010, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
May I ask why exactly a Missile cruiser needs a Flag Bridge?
I mean, I suppose you will use multiple ships of that class.
Also, maybe use backup sensors, and get a heavily armored sensor ship for the actual spotting?
If you use multiple ships, single Gauss turrets, used in cohesion, might actually do a better job than CIWS, which to my knowledge only defend the ship they are mounted on.
The original design was for a Battleship so I guess it made sense to have the Flag Bridge in that case. Even still, a Flag Bridge on a Battlecruiser still seems within the realm of possibility if it is one of the largest designs you are fielding at the time.
I would tend to agree with backup sensors and FCs, but at the same time it has 20 armor so can take a beating before taking internal damage and for me and my OCD I like have 'rounded' numbers for HS and speed
I like having one dedicated onboard CIWS for larger ships and then have dedicated escorts with the primary Anti-Missile defenses.
All personal preferences ofcourse!
Post by: welchbloke on June 14, 2010, 03:00:34 AM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
The original design was for a Battleship so I guess it made sense to have the Flag Bridge in that case. Even still, a Flag Bridge on a Battlecruiser still seems within the realm of possibility if it is one of the largest designs you are fielding at the time.Also depends whether your race likes multiple available flag bridges (and TG commanders) and there is something to be said about your admiral flying their lights from a ship that cannot easily be identified.
Quote from: "Beersatron"
I would tend to agree with backup sensors and FCs, but at the same time it has 20 armor so can take a beating before taking internal damage and for me and my OCD I like have 'rounded' numbers for HS and speed :)Quote from: "Beersatron"I like having one dedicated onboard CIWS for larger ships and then have dedicated escorts with the primary Anti-Missile defenses.For me the jury is still out regarding CIWS; my design philosophy is similar to your with my larger ships mounting CIWS. I haven't fought enough battles with these design to decide if it is a good idea yet. All of my recent combat has been against beam armed Precursors and Star Swarm, neither of which have a weapon that requires CIWS
All personal preferences ofcourse!
Post by: Brian Neumann on June 14, 2010, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: "welchbloke"
For me the jury is still out regarding CIWS; my design philosophy is similar to your with my larger ships mounting CIWS. I haven't fought enough battles with these design to decide if it is a good idea yet. All of my recent combat has been against beam armed Precursors and Star Swarm, neither of which have a weapon that requires CIWSI have had about 8-10 fleet battles where I had ships mounting CIWS and enemy missile ships attacking. I like them on large missile combatants. On a ship that already has beam weapons they are actually a disadvantage if there are more than a few of them in a fleet. This is because the mass used for the CIWS could have been used for 1 more beam weapon on each ship. After about 5-6 ships the combined firepower is pretty close to what the CIWS gave in the first place. If one of my ships without CIWS was the target then all that extra beam weapons would still be available to defend the target. If you can put more than 3 CIWS on a ship then I would look at putting a 10cm double or tripple turret and its fire control instead. It will give you more offensive punch at close range, not as much pd for the single ship, but in a fleet there will probably be more total pd with this design strategy.
The other place that I like them is on commercial ships that I intend to have near the front lines. Tankers, Troop Transports ect. As the CIWS can be put on a commercial design without making it a military design this gives them some point defense.
Just my two cents worth.
Brian
Post by: welchbloke on June 14, 2010, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: "Brian"
I have had about 8-10 fleet battles wheIre I had ships mounting CIWS and enemy missile ships attacking. I like them on large missile combatants. On a ship that already has beam weapons they are actually a disadvantage if there are more than a few of them in a fleet. This is because the mass used for the CIWS could have been used for 1 more beam weapon on each ship. After about 5-6 ships the combined firepower is pretty close to what the CIWS gave in the first place. If one of my ships without CIWS was the target then all that extra beam weapons would still be available to defend the target. If you can put more than 3 CIWS on a ship then I would look at putting a 10cm double or tripple turret and its fire control instead. It will give you more offensive punch at close range, not as much pd for the single ship, but in a fleet there will probably be more total pd with this design strategy.I might include a few designs with beam turrets in my next round of upgrades and see how things pan out.
Quote from: "Brian"
The other place that I like them is on commercial ships that I intend to have near the front lines. Tankers, Troop Transports ect. As the CIWS can be put on a commercial design without making it a military design this gives them some point defense.This is something I do as well. All of my fleet support ships have some CIWS fitted.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on June 14, 2010, 11:01:19 AM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Hopefully Steve sees this thread and grabs the database, not sure he has ever progressed it to the point were there are this many NPRs and so many known systems.It will be useful to take a look, although I go back to Vegas on Wednesday and won't be able to do anything with Aurora until I get back on July 2nd. If I remember I will grab it then. I won't have a laptop this time so I will be reduced to browsing via iPhone
. If anyone needs to contact me via email, I use my google mail account on the phone, which is stevewalmsley007. This is a trip with male friends rather than with my wife so I am available for wild parties, etc.Steve
Post by: laz on July 06, 2010, 04:48:41 AM
If your back from vegas steve