Aurora 4x

VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: Starkiller on July 07, 2010, 07:40:54 PM

Title: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 07, 2010, 07:40:54 PM: I needed a ship capable of a long range missle duel for deep space action, as the opponent I will face is reputed to be somewhat troublesome. :)

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Dunkerque class Missile Cruiser 35000 tons 2969 Crew 51464.08 BP TCS 700 TH 223.2 EM 3600 15942 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 10-95 Shields 120-300 Sensors 60/60/0/0 Damage Control Rating 40 PPV 176 Annual Failure Rate: 980% IFR: 13.6% Maint Capacity 9190 MSP Max Repair 2430 MSP Est Time: 0.39 Years Magazine 3773 J35000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 35000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3 Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E1 ARM-2 (31) Power 360 Fuel Use 10% Signature 7.2 Armour 2 Exp 3% Hyper Capable Fuel Capacity 850,000 Litres Range 437.1 billion km (317 days at full power) Psi R300/15 Shields (10) Total Fuel Cost 150 Litres per day Quad 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (4x4) Range 350,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 12-12 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (4) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-0.75 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 48 Armour 0 Exp 1% Size 4 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (40) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 55 Size 1 Missile Launcher (40) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5 Missile Fire Control FC216-R100 (10%) (8) Range 216.0m km Resolution 100 Missile Fire Control FC48-R1 (10%) (8) Range 48.6m km Resolution 1 Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (1533) Speed: 186,400 km/s End: 4.4m Range: 49m km WH: 2 Size: 1 TH: 8574 / 5144 / 2572 Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (560) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 36m Range: 216m km WH: 40 Size: 4 TH: 2200 / 1320 / 660 Active Search Sensor MR810-R100 (10%) (1) GPS 13500 Range 810.0m km Resolution 100 Active Search Sensor MR48-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 810 Range 48.6m km Resolution 1 Thermal Sensor TH1-60 (15%) (1) Sensitivity 60 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 60m km EM Detection Sensor EM1-60 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 60 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 60m km Compact ECCM-8 (1) ECM 80 Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Think it might do the job?
(I really prefer 'knife-edge' WP defence though)

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 08, 2010, 08:50:00 AM: The annual failure rate is ridiculous.
I'd recommend taking out one engine and adding 5 Engineering spaces in turn.
As for the offense, 14 Salvos is quite good, speed is decent, it has some short range defense capability, and good Anti-Missile coverage.
I'm not quite sure you need that many Fire controls, and if you do, why do you have only one ECCM?
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 08, 2010, 09:16:37 AM: True, but I turned maintenance off while I play around. I think in future designs, I will design as if its on, just to get in practice, because I would like to turn it on eventually. ECCM is, so far, an unknown. I won't waste space on the ship until I learn just how it works, how WELL it works, and if it's worth the space. I included one on the ship so I could see what it does. Unfortunately, it looks like the 'Nasties' will be my first hostile encounter.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Hawkeye on July 08, 2010, 09:59:56 AM: Quote from: "Starkiller"
True, but I turned maintenance off while I play around. I think in future designs, I will design as if its on, just to get in practice, because I would like to turn it on eventually. ECCM is, so far, an unknown. I won't waste space on the ship until I learn just how it works, how WELL it works, and if it's worth the space. I included one on the ship so I could see what it does. Unfortunately, it looks like the 'Nasties' will be my first hostile encounter. :) (yes, it doesn´t look good for humanity)
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: welchbloke on July 08, 2010, 12:31:34 PM: Quote from: "Hawkeye"
Quote from: "Starkiller"
True, but I turned maintenance off while I play around. I think in future designs, I will design as if its on, just to get in practice, because I would like to turn it on eventually. ECCM is, so far, an unknown. I won't waste space on the ship until I learn just how it works, how WELL it works, and if it's worth the space. I included one on the ship so I could see what it does. Unfortunately, it looks like the 'Nasties' will be my first hostile encounter. :) (yes, it doesn´t look good for humanity)
Your ECM is better than theirs and your ships are faster so you should be able to control the range of the engagement.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 08, 2010, 08:48:13 PM: Ok, so, if I reduce the number of FCs and replace them with enough ECCMs for the remaining FCs, and attach them to the FCs, they will keep my FC firing range at it's normal amount. Am I understanding correctly?
If I can control the engagement range, then if I'm on the ball, they can't win unless I screw up, which is not impossible, in my case.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Hawkeye on July 09, 2010, 08:37:22 AM: Correct
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 09, 2010, 09:25:58 AM: Or your outnumbered to the point where you run out of missiles, in which case you won't really lose, but it'll cost you.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 09, 2010, 09:53:20 AM: Cool!
[spoiler:t8mzi83t]Well, so far, the picket destroyer has seen no Invaders, but the wormhole changed position from one side of the system, to the other side. [/spoiler:t8mzi83t]

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 09, 2010, 08:35:05 PM: Omega class Fleet Base. I'm trying to design a major fleet base for 61 Cygni, which is a crucial warp junction. This is what I came up with. Just need to design it's fighters.

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Omega class Fleet Base 1004450 tons 95477 Crew 321265.5199 BP TCS 20089 TH 0 EM 7200 1 km/s Armour 20-893 Shields 240-300 Sensors 60/60/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1620 PPV 1148 Annual Failure Rate: 5380% IFR: 74.7% Maint Capacity 301856 MSP Max Repair 5775 MSP Est Time: 0.97 Years Hangar Deck Capacity 100000 tons Magazine 10982 Cargo 50000 Cargo Handling Multiplier 80 Maintenance Modules: 500 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 100000 tons Fuel Capacity 10,000,000 Litres Range N/A Psi R300/15 Shields (20) Total Fuel Cost 300 Litres per day Twin 70cm C20 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (2x2) Range 1,400,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 256-40 RM 12 ROF 35 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 Quad 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (10x4) Range 360,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 12-12 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Quad 25cm C16 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (10x4) Range 1,400,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 64-64 RM 12 ROF 5 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 Twin 40cm C20 Far Gamma Ray Laser Turret (2x2) Range 1,400,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 80-40 RM 12 ROF 10 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 Fire Control S04 700-20000 H15 (14) Max Range: 1,400,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (10) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-0.75 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 216 Armour 0 Exp 1% Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-0.75 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 720 Armour 0 Exp 1% Size 1 Missile Launcher (60) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 5 Size 10 Missile Launcher (75% Reduction) (60) Missile Size 10 Rate of Fire 55 Missile Fire Control FC345-R100 (10%) (6) Range 345.6m km Resolution 100 Missile Fire Control FC48-R1 (10%) (6) Range 48.6m km Resolution 1 Size 1 Anti-missile Missile (4982) Speed: 186,400 km/s End: 4.4m Range: 49m km WH: 2 Size: 1 TH: 8574 / 5144 / 2572 Size 10 Anti-ship Missile (600) Speed: 120,000 km/s End: 40m Range: 288m km WH: 72 Size: 10 TH: 1680 / 1008 / 504 Active Search Sensor MR48-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 810 Range 48.6m km Resolution 1 Active Search Sensor MR810-R100 (10%) (1) GPS 13500 Range 810.0m km Resolution 100 Thermal Sensor TH1-60 (15%) (1) Sensitivity 60 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 60m km EM Detection Sensor EM1-60 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 60 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 60m km Compact ECCM-8 (36) ECM 80 Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Hawkeye on July 10, 2010, 02:21:45 AM: Hm, there are no missiles to re-arm your fighters (once you have them designed). Yes, you don´t have the missile size now (or have you?), but there is no space left in your magazines. I´d put enough ammo on it to relaod your fighter wing(s) at least 4 times.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 10, 2010, 08:08:53 AM: Why so many maintenance supplies without overhauls?
And what does it need to be so heavily armed for if you rely on fighters?
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 10, 2010, 04:02:09 PM: Just experimenting right now. It''ll be quite some time before I have a shipyard big enough to build this. As to fighter missles, I realized I'd need space for them after I posted this. Maintenance supplies because I'll eventually turn overhauls on again, so I need to keep that in mind. I think Steve will need to do a type of engineering space for large constructs. I had over 3000 engineering spaces on this thing, at one time, and the annual failure rate was STILL very high. As to weapons, the base will support the fighters, who's weapons are limited by their size, though I did get a fairly decent loadout for them, and managed to keep a very high speed. Had to use normal engines though, but kept the weight at 2000 tons.
Best I could do, and still give the fighter some good weapons while keeping it's top speed high. No point in having fighters if their speed is slower than the capital ships.

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Rapier class Fighter 2000 tons 214 Crew 10530 BP TCS 40 TH 21.6 EM 360 27000 km/s Armour 5-14 Shields 12-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 7 Annual Failure Rate: 32% IFR: 0.4% Maint Capacity 3291 MSP Max Repair 5775 MSP Est Time: 1.39 Years Magazine 4 Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E1 ARM-2 (3) Power 360 Fuel Use 10% Signature 7.2 Armour 2 Exp 3% Hyper Capable Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 450.0 billion km (192 days at full power) Psi R300/15 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 15 Litres per day 20cm C10 Far Gamma Ray Laser (1) Range 1,200,000km TS: 27000 km/s Power 10-10 RM 12 ROF 5 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 Fire Control S04 700-20000 H15 (1) Max Range: 1,400,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 99 98 97 96 96 95 94 94 93 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-0.75 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 12 Armour 0 Exp 1% Size 2 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (2) Missile Size 2 Rate of Fire 545 Missile Fire Control FC288-R100 (10%) (1) Range 288.0m km Resolution 100 Size 2 Anti-ship Missile (2) Speed: 90,000 km/s End: 53.3m Range: 288m km WH: 16 Size: 2 TH: 2460 / 1476 / 738 Active Search Sensor MR810-R100 (10%) (1) GPS 13500 Range 810.0m km Resolution 100 Compact ECCM-8 (1) ECM 80 Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposesI'll have to add the missle storage for the fighter missles to the base. As I mentioned, it'll be some time before I can build it, so I'm finetuning it as I go.
Incidently, [spoiler:30k3tc5i]There are now TWO Invader wormholes in the same system. Is this normal?[/spoiler:30k3tc5i]

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: symon on July 10, 2010, 04:21:57 PM: Yes, I've seen a pair before. It's not good.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 10, 2010, 06:39:46 PM: Thats not a fighter, but a Gunboat.
In this case, why not use a Gunboat engine?
I'll reduce your propulsion by a third, but also cut your weight by 25%. (1 engine 250 tons, having one with double output is -33% power, -25% weight)

Also, having 10% of your ships mass in Engineering spaces isn't that bad, after all, they are a buffer to the important systems if something breaches your armor, and add to damage control.

As for Lasers, once you have Capacitor tech 15, you can build a 10 cm laser with size reduction and 5sec fire rate.
That'll allow your to build a size 2 laser with low energy requirement to be used en mass.

With that high shield tech, I'd probably take out a lot of the weapons to increase the defensive, after all, the parasites are going to deliver the punch.
500 shields will result in 6k+ points of shield that regenerate in five minutes.

As Military History has shown, a lot of guns of a lot of calibers aren't more efficient than a few select in bigger numbers.
That was the success of the HMS Dreadnought, whose name is rather well known sort of today.
Big guns for good range and Anti Armor, small guns for small targets and short ranges, but with higher DPS.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 10, 2010, 07:54:42 PM: Good points.
You know, I forgot all about the size reduction thing. I'll have to check my capacitors to see what level I have. I know I am high enough for a 25cm laser to have a 5 second ROF, but the 30 cm has a 10 second ROF.

I'll have to experiment downsizing weapons to see how small I can get them while maintaining that 5 sec ROF. I figured it was too big to be called a fighter, but I forgot all about the gunboat moniker. :)

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 11, 2010, 09:33:18 AM: Well, only the 10cm can be downsized and stay 5 seconds, for 10, it may go a little higher.
But over all, you can have a fighter with 2.5 sizes Weapon. Small Gauss are probably better, though.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 12:53:15 PM: It was a bit of a tradeoff. I got a high speed, short range, difficult to detect and/or hit, fighter. She's short range, but then most fighters generally are. The increased power also increases the chance the engine will blow up when hit, but as not too many fighters can survive more than a hit or two, I figured it was a fair trade. What do YOU think? Is this a workable fighter? Perhaps fighters should have some weapons designed specifically for them, or maybe a specialized class, or
something. It just really isn't a fighter if it has more than two crew. Still, within the constraints of the game, this might simply be the best we can do. Still not bad for 800 tons though.

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Cobra class Fighter 800 tons 93 Crew 1906.4 BP TCS 0.16 TH 7.2 EM 0 22500 km/s Armour 2-7 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 4 Annual Failure Rate: 5% IFR: 0.1% Maint Capacity 1489 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 10.04 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 9.0 billion km (4 days at full power) 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (2) Range 350,000km TS: 22500 km/s Power 3-3 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-0.75 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 12 Armour 0 Exp 1% Active Search Sensor MR810-R100 (10%) (1) GPS 13500 Range 810.0m km Resolution 100 Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 1% of normal ECM 80 This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: waresky on July 11, 2010, 01:50:56 PM: Awesome.
The "New Beam Naval Doctrine" are very good with powerful cannon,cunning speed fighter.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 01:59:38 PM: Yes, it'll be pretty lethal in squadrons, but I have to try to get an effective fighter at or below 500 tons, because anything over 500 tons requires a shipyard, which, of course, implies that fighter factories can only build fighters of 500 tons or less. SIGH. Back to the ol' drawing board. Heh.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 02:09:15 PM: Does a fighter NEED active search rader, or can it depend on it's mothership's actives?

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 02:14:29 PM: This is the best I could do for a fighter at 500 tons. Unlike the Cobra, the Viper has only one laser, no active search sensor, cloak, or ECM, but she's REALLY fast, and has heavier armour. How would this one do? I think fighter factories can build the Viper.

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Viper class Fighter 500 tons 52 Crew 1034.4 BP TCS 10 TH 7.2 EM 0 36000 km/s Armour 6-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 2% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1293 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 15.2 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.4 billion km (4 days at full power) 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (1) Range 350,000km TS: 36000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 11, 2010, 02:20:27 PM: In theory a fighter does not need it's own actives. The problem with this is if anything forces the active equiped unit to shutdown/run away then the fighters are useless. For a beam armed fighter I would want a small active that somewhat closely matched my weapon range. This way even if my primary source went down the fighter (or several squadrons) is not helpless. At the tech used in this case it would be possible to get an active sensor resolution 1 with a range of 300-400,000km for about .2 hull spaces. What is mounted on this fighter is more of a long range search radar to vector the fighters in with. That extra .8 hull spaces does not sound like much but it can make a difference. I would also drop the cloak as the unit is already so small that it is having a big impact on performance without an equal impact on being targeted.

The other thing this fighter needs is some ecm/eccm. Even just the fighter versions wich top out at level 5 would make a big difference on it's capability. I might not even but ecm on it as it is likely that anyone targeting it will have a better eccm anyway. The eccm however is very important as without it the chance of hitting a equal tech ship is about ZERO. Level 10 ecm will reduce your chance to hit by -100%. Unless you have a modified chance to hit above 100% you are going to miss with just about every shot you take. With that eccm-5 on board the chance of hitting just jumped to 50% on average. This is a major difference to say the least.

Brian
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 02:46:18 PM: Would a resolution 1 active sensor still pick up large warships? I thought that resolution was only for missle defence.

First crack at a bomber. The same advice you just gave, would apply here as well.

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Anaconda class Bomber 495 tons 44 Crew 424.4 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 6-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 536 MSP Max Repair 225 MSP Est Time: 15.1 Years Magazine 8 FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.5 billion km (4 days at full power) Size 8 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (1) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 2185 Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100 Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (1) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 18m Range: 108m km WH: 100 Size: 8 TH: 1933 / 1160 / 580 Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 03:20:13 PM: Lowered the armour on both the fighter and bomber to allow a full sensor suite.

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Viper class Fighter 500 tons 52 Crew 1099.6 BP TCS 10 TH 7.2 EM 0 36000 km/s Armour 4-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 6/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 2% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1374 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 15.68 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.4 billion km (4 days at full power) 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (1) Range 350,000km TS: 36000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 13.5 Range 810k km Resolution 1 Thermal Sensor TH0.1-6 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km EM Detection Sensor EM0.1-6 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
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Anaconda class Bomber 495 tons 44 Crew 489.6 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 4-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 6/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 618 MSP Max Repair 225 MSP Est Time: 16.24 Years Magazine 8 FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.5 billion km (4 days at full power) Size 8 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (1) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 2185 Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100 Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (1) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 18m Range: 108m km WH: 100 Size: 8 TH: 1933 / 1160 / 580 Active Search Sensor MR117-R145 (10%) (1) GPS 1957.5 Range 117.5m km Resolution 145 Thermal Sensor TH0.1-6 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km EM Detection Sensor EM0.1-6 (10%) (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 03:26:54 PM: In this set I removed the passive sensors, figuring a fighter likely doesn't need those, lowered the armour further, as a fighter doesn't really need heavy armour, and added a small craft ECCM-4 to both ships. Hopefully, this will do the trick.

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Viper class Fighter 500 tons 56 Crew 1142.8 BP TCS 10 TH 7.2 EM 0 36000 km/s Armour 2-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 2% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1428 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 16 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.4 billion km (4 days at full power) 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (1) Range 350,000km TS: 36000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 13.5 Range 810k km Resolution 1 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Code: [Select]
Anaconda class Bomber 495 tons 48 Crew 532.8 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 2-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 673 MSP Max Repair 225 MSP Est Time: 16.98 Years Magazine 8 FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres Range 14.5 billion km (4 days at full power) Size 8 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (1) Missile Size 8 Rate of Fire 2185 Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100 Size 8 Anti-ship Missile (1) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 18m Range: 108m km WH: 100 Size: 8 TH: 1933 / 1160 / 580 Active Search Sensor MR117-R145 (10%) (1) GPS 1957.5 Range 117.5m km Resolution 145 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 11, 2010, 07:53:53 PM: With your bomber you would be better off using the box launchers. You could fit a pair of size 6 launchers for the 1 size 8 you have currently. The big problem with fighter based missile tactics is you need http://lots of missiles to overwhelm the defenses. If you do not through the shields and armour of your target then you have pretty much wasted the missiles you have fired. I generally go for 3-4 size 4 box launcher missiles on fighters to have that saturation ability.

Brian
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 11, 2010, 09:22:34 PM: Like this? Isn't a box launcher supposed to hold more than one missle?

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Anaconda class Bomber 495 tons 37 Crew 550 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 6-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2.4 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 694 MSP Max Repair 225 MSP Est Time: 17.24 Years Magazine 16 FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 7.3 billion km (55 hours at full power) Size 4 Box Launcher (4) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100 Size 4 Anti-ship Missile mkII (4) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 15.2m Range: 91.4m km WH: 48 Size: 4 TH: 2333 / 1400 / 700 Active Search Sensor MR117-R145 (10%) (1) GPS 1957.5 Range 117.5m km Resolution 145 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 12, 2010, 03:27:11 AM: Box Launchers can only be reloaded by Maintenance Facilities or in a Hangar. In turn they are incredibly small.
Fighters will probably operate from a Hangar.
As for Sensors, you might just add a Sensor Fighter that gives sight.
I don't know how you get that high maintenance on your fighters, I'd say a small craft engineering space is the biggest I would ever put on a fighter, maybe one fails some time, but they are cheap and disposable.
Also, that high Fuel capacity isn't at all necessary, they are meant for medium ranges.
For Armor, I'd go for 3 if you intend it to survive a direct hit, that'll stop WH4 missiles and 10cm lasers.
However, maybe ecm or more speed might prove a better protection.
Also, the S4 missile has 48 WH, at 49, it would penetrate an other level of armor.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: welchbloke on July 12, 2010, 03:55:51 AM: Quote from: "UnLimiTeD"
Also, that high Fuel capacity isn't at all necessary, they are meant for medium ranges.
quote]
I suspect this is because it was the default fuel tank for a new design. I agree with UnLimiTed remove the full sized tank and replace it with something that gives you a few hrs endurance.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 09:47:58 AM: You're right, it's the default fuel tank. I didn't think you could replace it. I'll do that as it'll give me more room. If another point to the S4 will let it penetrate another layer of armour, then I'm going to revise the S4 to WH49. Every little bit helps.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 12, 2010, 12:01:14 PM: To calculate that:
It's always a square.
1², 2², 3², 4², 5²....
1 , 4 , 9 , 16, 25, ....

As for the fuel, 20k should give a reasonable range to most fighters and gunboats.
For long range missions, or scouting, 50 k should do it.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Hawkeye on July 12, 2010, 12:04:55 PM: Given you left the default fueltank in, you did remove the bridge, did you? Ships up to 1000t don´t need one.

Just to make sure
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 12:13:23 PM: Code: [Select]
Viper class Fighter 450 tons 56 Crew 1222.4 BP TCS 9 TH 7.2 EM 0 40000 km/s Armour 3-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1698 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 19.48 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 3.2 billion km (22 hours at full power) 10cm C3 Far Gamma Ray Laser [.75 size] (1) Range 350,000km TS: 40000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 12 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 13.5 Range 810k km Resolution 1 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) ECM 40 This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
How's this? Enough fuel for 22 hours of operation, armour at 3, ecm-4 added, and a top speed of 40000 km/s, and still under 500 tons. Now the Anaconda's turn. ^_-

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 12, 2010, 03:16:15 PM: Getting seriously useable.
However, with that small fighter, maybe try to somehow squeeze a meson in?
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 04:14:08 PM: I don't know. In the design stage, I didn't see a size reduction for the meson cannon, and in it's 10 cm form, it as big as the 10cm laser WITHOUT reduction. I'd need 150 tons worth of space to squeeze it in. I'd need to remove the laser, and it still might not fit. I'm kinda reluctant to remove the laser as the meson cannon seems a rather piddling weapon to me, unless I'm missing something. The laser does 3 damage to the meson cannon's 1 damage, plus has a greater range. What IS it that makes people mention the meson weapon as a good fighter choice over a downsized laser. Just curious as I've heard it mentioned before.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 12, 2010, 04:45:12 PM: Meson weapons ignore armor and shields.
Given a fighter can only have so much firepower, and an enemy battleship might have more rows of armor than you have fighters, and given you'll use them in numbers, they might actually hit something critical faster than a regular weapon will breach the enemy hull.
Also, they obviously have no damage drop off.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 12, 2010, 04:58:20 PM: The main difference between lasers and mesons is that the meson ignores all armour and shields. This means that every time you hit you will do internal damage. The downside to this is that mesons only do 1 point of damage and if you hit a system that has a higher hits to kill number then the chance of destroying the system is the ratio between the two.

Example A 5 HTK system takes 1 point of damage(from any source) the chance it will be destroyed is 1/5 or 20%.

A 2 HTK system takes 1 point of damage and its chance is 1/2 or 50%.

A good example of this is a large turret (20cm quad lasers) which has a HTK of 12. A meson does not have a good chance to kill this with one shot. Most systems however are not this large, and almost all of the electronic/fire control ecm ect have a htk of 1 so they can be easily killed. Magazines will have a varying htk based on their design and weapons in general have a low htk untill you get to the largest sizes.

Basic shorthand of beam weapons

Lasers Long range and good damage can be mounted on turrets for point defense work
Mesons Short range, 1 point damage but ignore all shields/armour can be mounted on turrets
Particle beams Long range, low damage size of weapon not a factor in range, not turret mountable
Railguns Short range, high damage but shallow armour penetration for thier size, not turret mountable
Plasma Carronade Short range high damage low cost, not turret mountable

With the exeption of the Particle beam (used to be called torpedo's not to confuse with plasma torpedo), all weapons have thier range based in part on the initial damage and the damage dropping off with range. This results in larger caliber weapons having a longer range. With particle beams it is a fixed range based on tech and the weapon does the same damage over its entire range.

Plasma carronade has the same damage output of a matching laser, but is significantly cheaper as there is no range enhancing tech to factor into its cost. Also a 15cm mount costs the same as a 10cm laser so they tend to cost 1/2 or less of the lasers cost.

Hope this helps you understand all of the beam weapons not just the mesons.

Brian
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 05:07:26 PM: It does give me a better idea of the advantages/disadvantages of each system. As for fighters, you're both right. If the meson ignores the ship's passive defences, then it is FAR superior to the laser as a fighter weapon. Back to the drawing board.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 05:16:09 PM: Here's the revamped Viper fighter and Anaconda bomber.

Code: [Select]
Anaconda class Bomber 500 tons 40 Crew 643.2 BP TCS 10 TH 7.2 EM 0 36000 km/s Armour 7-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 2.4 Annual Failure Rate: 2% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 804 MSP Max Repair 225 MSP Est Time: 18.4 Years Magazine 16 FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 2.9 billion km (22 hours at full power) Size 4 Box Launcher (4) Missile Size 4 Hangar Reload 30 minutes MF Reload 5 hours Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (10%) (1) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100 Size 4 Anti-ship Missile mkII (4) Speed: 100,000 km/s End: 12.6m Range: 75.6m km WH: 49 Size: 4 TH: 2300 / 1380 / 690 Active Search Sensor MR117-R145 (10%) (1) GPS 1957.5 Range 117.5m km Resolution 145 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) ECM 40 Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Code: [Select]
Viper class Fighter 495 tons 71 Crew 1040.8 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 2-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 3 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1314 MSP Max Repair 525 MSP Est Time: 15.48 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 2.9 billion km (22 hours at full power) R16.5/C3 Meson Cannon (1) Range 165,000km TS: 36363 km/s Power 3-3 RM 16.5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Fire Control S01 175-20000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 13.5 Range 810k km Resolution 1 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) ECM 40 This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 12, 2010, 06:56:26 PM: For beam weapons there is a special entry for fighter fire control. Look for it at the bottom of the design screen. It automatically gives a x4 tracking speed mod without any jump in cost or size.

Brian
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Starkiller on July 12, 2010, 10:31:36 PM: I never even noted that. :)

Code: [Select]
Viper class Fighter 495 tons 71 Crew 1303.8 BP TCS 9.9 TH 7.2 EM 0 36363 km/s Armour 2-5 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 3 Annual Failure Rate: 1% IFR: 0% Maint Capacity 1646 MSP Max Repair 788 MSP Est Time: 14.1 Years FTR Beam Core Anti-matter Drive E250 (1) Power 360 Fuel Use 2500% Signature 7.2 Armour 0 Exp 175% Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 2.9 billion km (22 hours at full power) R16.5/C3 Meson Cannon (1) Range 165,000km TS: 36363 km/s Power 3-3 RM 16.5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Fire Control S01 175-10000 H10 (FTR) (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 40000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71 Beam Core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 3.2 Armour 0 Exp 5% Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (10%) (1) GPS 13.5 Range 810k km Resolution 1 Small Craft ECCM-4 (1) ECM 40 This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes This design is classed as a fighter for production and combat purposes
That should pretty much do it.

Eric
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on July 13, 2010, 02:52:17 AM: Shouldn't that also reduce the size?
Also, with a lot of fighters, I don't think you need your ASS to have heavy electronic hardening, 50% would already be pushing it.
You could save massive in production cost.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: welchbloke on July 13, 2010, 05:52:21 AM: Also, do you intend for the fighters to operate in an anti missile role? If not the Resolution could be dropped to optimized for 500 tonnes. That might save you some room/weight.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Deutschbag on August 23, 2010, 12:35:27 PM: I'd recommend not sticking active sensors on either your bomber or fighter. Instead, design a dedicated sensor platform fighter that launches with the squadron and provides sensor support. I'm not at home so I don't have any examples of my own to show you, but for the purposes of providing an example, I'll copy and paste Steve's R-26 Krait from the NATO/Soviets campaign.

Code: [Select]
R-26A Krait class Recon Fighter 250 tons 23 Crew 83.2 BP TCS 5 TH 36 EM 0 7200 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 0 Annual Failure Rate: 50% IFR: 0.7% Maint Capacity 0 MSP Max Repair 63 MSP Est Time: 0 Years Pratt & Whitney F150 Ion Engine (1) Power 36 Fuel Use 7000% Signature 36 Armour 0 Exp 25% Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 2.1 billion km (3 days at full power) SN/APS-3 Active Search Sensor (1) GPS 6300 Range 69.3m km Resolution 100
It's a pretty effective strategy. The downside is that losing your control fighter means you lose active sensor support, but I feel that the benefit of having a dedicated platform with greater sensor range than would be possible in a mixed-class fighter outweighs it.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: UnLimiTeD on August 23, 2010, 02:13:05 PM: Also true.
To feel save, give your Beam armed Fighters a backup sensor, it's ok if it has a range of 100k agaisnt 500 ton targets or bigger.
Once they've found the enemy, you don't need the long range.

So, in your case, use an R5 to R10, reduce the size by as much as possible, and get rid of the Electronic hardening, you might notice your fighters cost more than a low tech frigate.
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Brian Neumann on August 23, 2010, 04:53:53 PM: If you are using 5.2 the new sensor rules make the smaller resolutions go farther than they used to go. I would put a very small active sensor that is good for about double the range of the beam weapons you are mounting on your fighters. This is so that even if they lose the long range scout fighter they are still combat capable. I have vectored beam armed fighters in on several of my games using just passives from my main scout ship in the fleet. When the fighters get in close they can activate their built in short range sensors and see their targets. Without 1 active sensor detecting the target they can not fire at it.

The resolution should be one that lets you see missiles at point blank range so you can use the fighters fire control to shoot at missiles if they are not shooting at anything else.

I would not bother with hardening the sensors at all on fighters, it is just to expensive, and you will have a lot of those short range sensors around to help you target your fire control. As long as one of the fighters has their active sensors going, then all of them will be able to see what they need to shoot, even if it is different targets, just so long as they are grouped together.

Brian
Title: Re: Ships of the Empire
Post by: Andrew on August 23, 2010, 05:45:23 PM: I have never had a ship hit with a a microwave beam so I consider Electronic hardening entirely useless. Total waste of space