Aurora 4x
New Players => The Academy => Topic started by: wodin on March 21, 2011, 10:19:29 AM
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My first design. . . I followed the tutorial and then started to make it into an all purpose ship. . . . this is the limit of my tech at the moment. . . these will be my first Military ships going out into space the year is 2025. . . . please advise. . . I expect they will all be space debris within 2 minutes of contact ;)
Ark Royal class Cruiser 14,050 tons 1628 Crew 1469. 5 BP TCS 281 TH 575 EM 0
2046 km/s Armour 2-51 Shields 0-0 Sensors 10/10/0/0 Damage Control Rating 41 PPV 64
Annual Failure Rate: 75% IFR: 1% Maint Capacity 1373 MSP Max Repair 45 MSP Est Time: 8. 51 Years
Magazine 115
Nuclear Thermal Engine E10 (23) Power 25 Fuel Use 100% Signature 25 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres Range 64. 0 billion km (362 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 90,000km TS: 15000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 3 ROF 5 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (2) Range 180,000km TS: 3000 km/s Power 6-3 RM 3 ROF 10 6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Twin R1. 5/C2 Meson Cannon Turret (1x2) Range 15,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-4 RM 1. 5 ROF 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 96-3000 (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 3000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 12000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (9) Total Power Output 27 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 5 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 75
Missile Fire Control FC45-R100 (1) Range 45. 0m km Resolution 100
Size 5 Anti-ship Missile (23) Speed: 10,000 km/s End: 15m Range: 9m km WH: 5 Size: 5 TH: 66 / 40 / 20
Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1) GPS 2000 Range 10. 0m km Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1) GPS 10 Range 500k km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1) Sensitivity 10 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-10 (1) Sensitivity 10 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Trouble is I sent out three previous version with a missile system and I didn't realise I had to give the missiles fuel etc. . . so I will have to restart. . . but if this ship is OK I shall use this design. . . . my missile range is quite short but I wanted to stick with the power to range ratio. . . . I need them if they do hit to cause some sort of damage. . .
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You need much more armor. You only have 2 layers. 10 would be better.
If you can close with Precursors and survive their onslaught of missiles, you might be able to kill some. Trouble is looks like you have no anti missile capability.
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I was thinking of more armour. . . . my twin turret laser is supposed to be my limited I know anti missile system. . . I'm trying to find a balance my annual failure rate is already high. . . having low tech is hard work. . .
Like I said it started off as the tutorial ship and I decided to up it's firepower abit more. . . . missiles was all guess work. . . . I will add another laser turret and some armour. . . then I expect i will have to add more engines and it goes on and on and on;)
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Ok, here you go :)
Armor:
Pretty low. While not a dedicated brawler, it does have short(ish) ranged lasers and mesons, so it WILL get close to the enemy. Whith only armor 2 it will be toast after the second salvo that hits it.
Speed:
Good for the tech (IMO probably even a bit much, but each to his own)
Maintenance:
Overkill, plain and simple. Personally, I go for a Est. Time of 2 to 3 years
Fuel:
OK
Armament:
Good PD suit, even if the Meson turret does nothave its own firecon (hint hint)
Not sure the two 15cm lasers will do you much good, once the range gets short enough to use them, but it is allways nice to have some backup.
Ammo is woefully low. Only enough missiles for three full and one short salvo will not be enough to kill anything larger than a FAC, I´m afraid.
Also, the missiles are terribly short ranged (for missiles, that is) any missile carrying opponent will vastely outrange you. They are also damn slow, but with nuclear thermal engines tech, I don´t think there is a lot you could do there (lowering the warhead to a damage-4 one might free a little space and keeps the penetrating power the same)
Sensors:
The active anti-ship sensor is very short range. This is ok for a brawler that has a fleet-scout with it, but for a missile combatant it is practicaly blind. You have a good ranged missile firecon. What when you research some techs and start building longer ranged missiles?
The active anti-missile sensor is also very short range. A size-6 or smaller missile will only be detected out to 80.000km, which is extremely short range. Not sure your turrets can even engage faster enemy missiles, as they could pass those 80k klicks within a single 5-second increment.
Passiv sensors are good.
Suggestions:
Rip out one or two engines. This should not make the ship a lot slower but free some space.
Try to put the 15cm lasers into turrets (perhaps two twin-turrets) and forget the 10cm ones and the mesons. That way, you can use the 15cm for both, PD and Anti-Ship work and save on firecons.
Alternatively, leave the lasers as is and just rip out the mesons
Up the armor as much as you can get away with and put some more magazine space in.
Increase range of the active sensors (perhaps raise resolution to something around 130 to 150) for the anti-ship.
For the missile, I can´t offer a lot of help. Personally, I don´t bother with them, unitl I have at least nuclear pulse missile drives.
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Being quite a noob myself, I don't know if my opinion about this design is good or not but for the moment, I only encountered ennemies which could go waaaaayyyy faster than my ships.
In my humble opinion, your Ark Royal is neither fast enough, nore capable of very long distance engagement, and it lacks the armor needed to withstand ennemy fire during the approach.
Maybe take off some beam armament and put more engines, or wait for the next engine technology.
You could also make a ship with the long range missiles, and another for close defense with lasers and so. You would have lighter ships and lighters ships go faster.
Not as fast as ships painted in red though.
Or you can completly give up the idea of going fast, and then, take off some engines and increase armor and base your strategy on "those bastards will have to reload one day or another"
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I've come to the general conclusion that multi role ships are not a good option in this game, by the time you double up on multiple fire controls and different systems you end up with ships that become so big you can then really struggle to get the balance of armour and engines right.
Another big issue for ships like this is whether you want them just for home defense of actually going out to fight. If its the later I would go for something much smaller at this tech level - basically down to the research and construction costs of building associated jump engines for the ships to move them around the place.
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Right the ship has gone to the salvage yard. . . . . . . so with my current tech I maybe best dropping missiles altogether. . .
This was the latest design. . . . still not good enough. . . the lasers were from the tutorial so I just expanded from there. . . I'm going to start again. . . .
Ark Royal class Cruiser 14,250 tons 1352 Crew 1436 BP TCS 285 TH 575 EM 0
2017 km/s Armour 5-52 Shields 0-0 Sensors 10/10/0/0 Damage Control Rating 28 PPV 49
Annual Failure Rate: 203% IFR: 2. 8% Maint Capacity 504 MSP Max Repair 45 MSP Est Time: 2. 84 Years
Magazine 105
Nuclear Thermal Engine E10 (23) Power 25 Fuel Use 100% Signature 25 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres Range 56. 8 billion km (326 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 90,000km TS: 15000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 3 ROF 5 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (2) Range 180,000km TS: 3000 km/s Power 6-3 RM 3 ROF 10 6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Twin R1. 5/C2 Meson Cannon Turret (1x2) Range 15,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-4 RM 1. 5 ROF 10 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (3) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 12000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 96-3000 (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 3000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (9) Total Power Output 27 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 5 Missile Launcher (75% Reduction) (4) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 100
Missile Fire Control FC15-R100 (1) Range 15. 0m km Resolution 100
Size 5 Anti-ship Missile (21) Speed: 10,000 km/s End: 15m Range: 9m km WH: 5 Size: 5 TH: 66 / 40 / 20
Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1) GPS 2000 Range 10. 0m km Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1) GPS 10 Range 500k km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1) Sensitivity 10 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-10 (1) Sensitivity 10 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 10m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purpose
Time for a rethink. . . . so am I best dropping the missiles at this level of tech? Or do I need to reconsider what i spend my tech points on when doing an instant. As you can see I dropped the range of the missile fire control and my missile range dropped aswell trying to up the hit chance. . . . either way it's all pointless as it will be out ranged and debris before it fires. . . . what range is good for a missile on average?
I getting to understand how the systems work just not how it works in game. . . . as I have obviously no combat experience. . . i only downloaded the game yesterday!
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Ok, I´ll give it a try.
As for missiles, there is no "good" range. It is, obviously, allways a tradoff. But around 50m looks good for a start (around 35 for very early tech)
Also, a good rule of thump is to have enough ammo for at least 10 full salvos (around 30 salvos for AMMs, but the more the better)
Things to consider:
Missiles:
You need enough to saturate the enemies PD. Even two pretty low-tech CIWS will shoot down most of your missiles, you are throwing at an enemy with only 4 missiles in a salvo. Therefore, I either go full steam missile boat or no missiles at all.
The faster your missiles are, the harder they are to intecept. Yours are pretty slow, which makes them pretty much sitting ducks for any kind of PD.
At that level, I would be very likely to forget about them for now.
Of course, going all beam weapons, has it´s drawbacks too. You must catch the prey, which in turn means, you want your ship to be faster than the enemy (Damn hard with Nuclear Thermal Enginges).
Also, you want to survive the missiles, the enemy throws at you, while you are closing. This means heavy armor/shields and/or good PD (preferably both).
You might see the problem here. High speed means lots of engines and thick armor and good PD means a lot of the remaining space taken up by passive and active defenses leaving very little for offensive weaponry.
What good is it to catch the enemy when you only mount a few popguns plinking away at him, after you cought him?
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So my current engine tech is a big limitng factor allround then. . . so how about I spend some RP on pulse engines when starting a new game?
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New revised version. . . . this is I hoping more of a brawler. . . . more armour, faster and more weaponry, missiles have been scrapped. . . if thsi design is OK I shall then build a light smaller missile ship to go along with it. . . .
I spent some RP on pulse engines. . . .
Ark Royal class Cruiser 22,450 tons 1639 Crew 2675 BP TCS 449 TH 1360 EM 0
3028 km/s Armour 10-70 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/12/0/0 Damage Control Rating 22 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 336% IFR: 4. 7% Maint Capacity 894 MSP Max Repair 86 MSP Est Time: 2. 03 Years
Military Nuclear Pulse Engine E8 (34) Power 40 Fuel Use 80% Signature 40 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,150,000 Litres Range 115. 2 billion km (440 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C4 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 90,000km TS: 15000 km/s Power 6-8 RM 3 ROF 5 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
15cm C4 Near Ultraviolet Laser (2) Range 180,000km TS: 4000 km/s Power 6-4 RM 3 ROF 10 6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
20cm C4 Near Ultraviolet Laser (2) Range 192,000km TS: 4000 km/s Power 10-4 RM 3 ROF 15 10 10 10 7 5 5 4 3 3 3
Medium Range Fire Control S06 96-6000 (2) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Short Range Fire Control S04 24-16000 (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (12) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1) GPS 12 Range 600k km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR49-R130 (1) GPS 9360 Range 49. 3m km Resolution 130
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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To be perfectly frank I'm not sure a close-range brawler is going to do you any good at all at this tech level against precursor ships. They're simply too fast, and they all use missiles. So if you end up in an engagement with them, it'll go like this: They close to, say, 25 mkm at 5000 km/s and start lobbing missiles. You can't close on them because they have the speed advantage and can keep the range open for as long as it pleases them to do so. You can't run away because they have the speed advantage, and as long as you're in system they can run you down... I dunno, it's really a hard call. You may be best off waiting til you get ion engines before you really invest in aggressive ships.
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Oh damn. . . am I getting the hang of it though considering the tech? Also are precursors the only enemy I will face? Will it be OK against other enemies. . . if there are any?
I was going to pair it with a few missile ships. . . .
I suppose if I'm roleplaying this I have to pretend I know nothing of precursors and will be building military vessels to the max of my tech in case the federation breaks up or we do meet Aliens and with Human arrogance I think we will kick their ass with the ass kicker Ark Royal. . . .
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Very early on in the game massive-first-strike missile ships are probably the most effective tactical option available. Size 2-4 missiles with ~50mkm range, warhead 4 or so, and the most reduced-size launcher you have (I think getting to 33% is pretty cheap). Build a few destroyers or light cruisers (keeping the size down because of early game jump drive research cost) and aim to overwhelm technologically superior foes with huge volleys of 50+ small missiles at once.
Until you can get a ship to 5000+ km/s while still giving it decent (6+) armour and weapons, beams are a very tricky option.
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As others have posted, the tech you have is very limiting. I usually push very hard with my initial points on engine tech, fuel modifier, and either basic missile tech or a basic beam tech. You do not have the points this early on to do more than that. Ion engine tech is not to expensive to reach along with fuel efficiency of .7 This will probably give you ships going around 2-4k km/s. It will also give you missiles moving around 20-30k km/s Much more efficient and able to get to 30-50m km without to much problems. If you go for missiles get your missile reload up to a 3 and try to push the warhead tech up as well. For starters you can leave off the missile agility. It will make a big difference for your point defense, but not so much on the offensive missiles. If you go for beam weapons go for one that can be used in a pd mode. That would be lasers, mesons, or railguns. Railguns are lower cost, but also more limited than the turret mounted lasers and mesons. Get your capaciter tech up to a 3 as this will allow a 5 second cycle time for the 10cm weapons and only a 10 second cycle for the 15cm lasers and mesons. RP costs go up very fast after these points so what you do from here on is up to your style of play. While I personally like particle beams they are not a good starting weapon system, and need to be paired with some other point defense capable weapon.
I know that these are just my preferences but they should give you some idea what to shoot for in a beginning warship.
Brian
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You seems to be figuring it out but I would recommend that you make a few game just to see what the starting rp can get you. It will help you see what people are recommending you do.
Also imo don't be overly worried about being able to take out precursors or any of the other special races at the start. They are all higher tech then you and will be a tough/impossible fight at the start. You can also run into normal NPRs that will be about the same tech level as you and should be a much easier fight. And you should find plenty of empty systems that you can explore if you do run into a hard fight.
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I always start a new game 'knowing' nothing about the universe at large.
For instance my current game is a conventional start so all I have are a few survey ships and two Customs Patrol Craft with a single railgun each designed to pop rogue asteroids ... 15 years later and I have a thriving Sol economy and discover WPs, 1 year after that and my scout ship gets hammered by mysterious aliens in the first system it jumps into it.
So now I have went from a peaceful expansion in Sol to have a massive military buildup whilst picketing the WP with my only other jump capable jump ship - fun! :)
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A total rebuild. . . . I have no idea how many missiles I should have. . . I went for a few anti missile missiles. . . . a few medium hitting power and my biggest missiles are on board going through testing if I manage to hit anything with just two on board. . . I would fire them to finish a ship off I suppose. . . . .
The damn thing is huge and it will be a fair while before I can get a ship this size through a Jump gate. . .
Bismarck class Missile Cruiser 22,600 tons 2097 Crew 3081. 2 BP TCS 452 TH 1860 EM 0
4115 km/s Armour 10-71 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/12/0/0 Damage Control Rating 11 PPV 97
Annual Failure Rate: 371% IFR: 5. 2% Maint Capacity 937 MSP Max Repair 86 MSP Est Time: 1. 97 Years
Magazine 302
Military Ion Engine E7 (31) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,200,000 Litres Range 136. 5 billion km (384 days at full power)
Single 15cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x1) Range 180,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-3 RM 3 ROF 10 6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
AS Fire Control S06 96-6000 (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Anti Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Size 3 Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Size 6 Missile Launcher (2) Missile Size 6 Rate of Fire 60
Woden Missile Fire Control FC57-R100 (1) Range 57. 6m km Resolution 100
Frig Missile Fire Control FC2-R1 (1) Range 2. 9m km Resolution 1
Odin Anti-ship Missile (60) Speed: 24,000 km/s End: 35. 7m Range: 51. 4m km WH: 4 Size: 3 TH: 96 / 57 / 28
Thor Anti-ship Missile (2) Speed: 20,500 km/s End: 41. 8m Range: 51. 4m km WH: 10 Size: 6 TH: 75 / 45 / 22
Loki Anti-missile Missile (100) Speed: 44,900 km/s End: 0. 1m Range: 0. 3m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 149 / 89 / 44
Freja Active Search Sensor MR50-R135 (1) GPS 9720 Range 50. 2m km Resolution 135
Gema Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1) GPS 16 Range 960k km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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your Loki Anti-missile Missile has a range of 300K kms : any good missile thrown at you will cover this distance in less than 2 five seconds increments. So this missile is unable to intercept anything in my opinion (it would not be able to block your own odin missiles for example).
your Frig missile fire control is too short range too : when it will see the incoming missiles, it will be already too late.
Your Odin missile is good. In my opnion, your Thor missile is useless on this ship, the Odin can do the job and your Thor will come by salvoes of two slow missiles, way too easy to intercept. Go for the Odin and go for more room for magazines, this ship will fall out of ammo in less than a minute.
Continuous fire of your 20 size 3 missiles launchers with Odin missile could be very effective though.
With this design, I would pull off the lasers and the size 6 missiles stuff, and I would put the revamped anti missiles radars and launchers on another ship. The bismark kills the target, the sister ship protects the bismarck.
This way, you would have two lighter ships, and it would be easier to make them jump.
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I agree with Giggle, go specialist ships.
Here are some examples from an old cameign of mine
The long-range firepower of a squadron (it carries 190 missiles, enough for 15 full braodsides)
Martiobarbulus class Missile Cruiser 12000 tons 1178 Crew 1881.96 BP TCS 240 TH 708.75 EM 0
3937 km/s Armour 3-46 Shields 0-0 Sensors 11/11/0/0 Damage Control Rating 8 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 144% IFR: 2% Maint Capacity 784 MSP Max Repair 96 MSP Est Time: 2.89 Years
Magazine 760
Avernum Sollum Class 63/75 Ion Engine (15) Power 63 Fuel Use 77% Signature 47.25 Armour 0 Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres Range 68.2 billion km (200 days at full power)
Onager Class ASM Launcher (12) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 40
Opius Verena Class 95/60 MFC (2) Range 95.0m km Resolution 60
Opius Verena Class 50/16 MFC (2) Range 50.7m km Resolution 16
Oculus 53/75 (1) GPS 4800 Range 52.8m km Resolution 75
Senecca Inc. Typ 11 Thermal Sensor (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
Cunilingus Inc. Type 11 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
For Anti-Missile protection, this escort cruiser is in service, with enough AMMs for more than 35 salvos and two meson turrets for backup.
Scutum class Escort Cruiser 12000 tons 1049 Crew 1916.72 BP TCS 240 TH 708.75 EM 0
3937 km/s Armour 4-46 Shields 0-0 Sensors 33/22/0/0 Damage Control Rating 11 PPV 35
Annual Failure Rate: 104% IFR: 1.5% Maint Capacity 1098 MSP Max Repair 160 MSP Est Time: 3.14 Years
Magazine 549
Avernum Sollum Class 63/75 Ion Engine (15) Power 63 Fuel Use 77% Signature 47.25 Armour 0 Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres Range 77.9 billion km (229 days at full power)
Twin 100mm/L46/R5 Meson Hasta Turret (2x2) Range 45,000km TS: 12000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4.5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Destinatum 24/12 (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 12000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Marsallas Industries Class 4.5 GCF Reactor (3) Total Power Output 13.5 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Scorpio Class AMM Launcher (15) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Opius Verena Class 2.1/1 MFC (3) Range 2.1m km Resolution 1
Glans AMM-1 (549) Speed: 31,800 km/s End: 2.7m Range: 5.2m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 212 / 127 / 63
Oculus 1.7/1 (1) GPS 160 Range 1.8m km Resolution 1
Senecca Inc. Class 33 Thermal Sensor (1) Sensitivity 33 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 33m km
Cunilingus Inc. Type 22 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 22 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 22m km
And if close range firepower is needed, this baby comes into play with thick armor and 12 (at the time) heavy laser cannons
Scipio class Cruiser 12000 tons 1198 Crew 1975.2 BP TCS 240 TH 756 EM 0
4200 km/s Armour 10-46 Shields 0-0 Sensors 22/11/0/0 Damage Control Rating 10 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 115% IFR: 1.6% Maint Capacity 1029 MSP Max Repair 77 MSP Est Time: 4.32 Years
Avernum Sollum Class 63/75 Ion Engine (16) Power 63 Fuel Use 77% Signature 47.25 Armour 0 Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres Range 68.2 billion km (187 days at full power)
150mm/L180/R10 Near UV Spatha (12) Range 180,000km TS: 4200 km/s Power 6-3 RM 3 ROF 10 6 6 6 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
Destinatum 128/4 (2) Max Range: 256,000 km TS: 4000 km/s 96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Marsallas Industries Class 9 GCF Reactor (4) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Oculus 0.35/1 (1) GPS 32 Range 352k km Resolution 1
Oculus 1.4/16 (1) GPS 128 Range 1.4m km Resolution 16
Senecca Inc. Class 22 Thermal Sensor (1) Sensitivity 22 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 22m km
Cunilingus Inc. Type 11 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
ECCM-1 (2) ECM 10
Those are by no means "the right way" to design ships, I post them just to show you a diffent approach.
Also a note in regards to using jumpgates. After jumping through on, your ship will be blind for quite a while (2 to 3 minutes, which is forever, if the jumppoint is guarded and you come under fire as soon as you emerge). Using a jumpengine and "squadron jump" only blinds your sensors for 10 to 30 seconds.
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Your trying to do too much with a single ship class. At least at this tonnage and the early game. In my opinion you'd be better off with 3 different, but mutually supporting, classes. Fleet Scout that are the eyes, Missile Cruiser/Boat for main offensive strength, and Escort for missile defense.
Fleet Scout: House the groups long range passive and active sensor suites. Thermals should be able to detect your own strongest emissions at 100m km, same goes for you EM suite. Actives should detect a 5000k ship at 100m km as well.
The Fleet Scout also mounts the main active sensor suite for missile defense. This suite should be set for res 1 detection at 5-6m km.
Missile Cruiser: This is your long range slugger and missiles are the punch that it is built around.
It's best to stick with one type of missile in the early game. This missile should have a range of at least 50m km and a warhead of at least 4 (pentration to second layer of armor). Mix engines and fuel for a combination of range/speed/hit probability(vs 3000kps) that you'll accept.
Magazine capacity should be at least 20 salvos, 40 is better.
Don't worry about reduced size launchers for this class unless you go for box launchers, the reduced mass for greater numbers usually isn't worth the increased reload time. At least 10 launchers for the broadside is a good start, more is of course better.
Missile fire control at a minimum should see 5000k at max range of missile. 1 fire control per 5 to 10 launchers. Active search sensor to match fire control (CYA in case the Fleet Scout is taken out)
Escort: This is your primary missile intercept platform. Main intercept tool is the counter missile or anti-missile missile. AMM/CM should be size 1 for best reload rates on launchers. .1mbp in fuel,warhead 1, the rest engine power for speed. Hopefully your engine tech gives this missile a range of at least 1.5m km.
Magazine capacity per launcher should start at 75.
Missile fire control at res 1 for max range of AMM/CM. 1 fire control per 5 launchers. 1 active search sensor that matches the fire control.
Considerations for all combat ships:
Point defense turrets. Laser or Gauss Cannon. Escorts should have quad's all others at least twin's. Beam firecontrol should be 4X on tracking speed (turrets at matching speeds) and a single active search sensor that will see res 1 at twice your own offensive missile range for 5seconds (or the best speed you've seen an enemy use). Set point defense to 10k/final defense and keep the formation tight for mutual support.
Armor. 5 layers is a good start.
Shields. 2 per 1000 tons.
Fuel/Engineering/Engine. 1 per 1000 tons.
At least 1 damage control.
CIWS. Mostly a wast of space if you use regular turrets for mutual defensive support.
This is a fair starting formula, but should be adjusted for personal flavor and tactics.
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Here we go again. . . . . having fun though. . . . I still kept two twin turrets just to give the ship as much time as possible to fire off it's missile load. . . not much difference with them off and it would be a shame to get destroyed before I get off all the missiles. . .
Blucher class Cruiser 14,900 tons 1469 Crew 2182. 4 BP TCS 298 TH 900 EM 0
3020 km/s Armour 5-53 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 9 PPV 78
Annual Failure Rate: 197% IFR: 2. 7% Maint Capacity 824 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 2. 21 Years
Magazine 720
Military Ion Engine E7 (15) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres Range 77. 7 billion km (297 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (2) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Odin Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Odin Anti Ship Missile Fire Control FC76-R100 (2) Range 76. 8m km Resolution 100
Odin Anti-ship Missile (240) Speed: 28,000 km/s End: 30. 6m Range: 51. 4m km WH: 4 Size: 3 TH: 93 / 56 / 28
Gema Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1) GPS 56 Range 4. 5m km Resolution 1
Freja Active Search Sensor MR58-R130 (1) GPS 8320 Range 58. 4m km Resolution 130
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1. 6-12. 8 (1) Sensitivity 12. 8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12. 8m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Here is my anti missile ship
Seydlitz class Missile Defence Base 12,250 tons 1034 Crew 1844. 4 BP TCS 245 TH 900 EM 0
3673 km/s Armour 5-47 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 7 PPV 38
Annual Failure Rate: 171% IFR: 2. 4% Maint Capacity 659 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 2. 11 Years
Magazine 620
Military Ion Engine E7 (15) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres Range 94. 4 billion km (297 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (2) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Loki Missile Launcher (20) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Loki Anti Missile Fire Control FC7-R1 (2) Range 7. 7m km Resolution 1
Loki Anti-missile Missile (600) Speed: 36,000 km/s End: 2. 4m Range: 5. 1m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 156 / 93 / 46
Gema Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1) GPS 56 Range 4. 5m km Resolution 1
Freja Active Search Sensor MR58-R130 (1) GPS 8320 Range 58. 4m km Resolution 130
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1. 6-12. 8 (1) Sensitivity 12. 8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12. 8m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
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I always find these ship design threads interesting - particularly with the well thought well balanced ship designs thrown out...
My fleets are miss-match of new and refitted ships which like 'real' navies have older systems on some ship operating alongside other ships with the latest equipment freshly installed.
For instance at the moment I still have a couple of 2kT 1st generation ships which I am using as 'protection' at a large colony which are basically useless for combat - I am waiting for a new Naval Shipyard to finish on a nearby colony and build up to 2kT so I can refit them with more modern engines and weapons.
I have another 'protection' design at 3kT which have 2nd generation engines (up to 4th generation at present) but current missile and guass armaments. These ships can fight but are not fast and the primary role is to keep the colonies happy. I probably won't bother refitting them until I get 5th gen Engines as my main military yards are tied up with my main missile boats nearly done) and refitting my entire fleet of explorer ships (about 12 to go) and building a few more. I then want a new planetary assault ship that can drop an entire brigade and a space assault ship so I can capture alien ships..... by which time I should have 5th gen engine tech and I can look at re-fitting my main strike fleet...... again
I have another serious combat ship at 12kT which are a sort of reserve at present. They have current engines but older guass and laser armament - these were hasty refits of an early design I rushed through as soon as I got the 4th gen Engines to give me something in the same speed range as the Aliens I came across at that time - since turned out peaceful - they are faster then my current 'big boys' but are way undergunned compared to my current ships. these will probably be the first ships re-fitted once I get 5th Gen Engine tech... and thus be the first with the latest weaponry...
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Finally my close in brawler. . . . One thing obviously I the turrets need to work with the close range high TS rate. . . . do you in some way ahve to link these as it seems to take the TS of the turret and the range of the long range fire control. . .
Deutschland class Destroyer 16,000 tons 1308 Crew 2494. 8 BP TCS 320 TH 1260 EM 0
3937 km/s Armour 10-56 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 19 PPV 45
Annual Failure Rate: 227% IFR: 3. 2% Maint Capacity 877 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 2. 12 Years
Military Ion Engine E7 (21) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres Range 72. 3 billion km (212 days at full power)
Twin 15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2) Range 240,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 12-6 RM 4 ROF 10 6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2) Range 120,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser (4) Range 240,000km TS: 4000 km/s Power 6-3 RM 4 ROF 10 6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
Tyr Fire Control S05 128-5000 (2) Max Range: 256,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (2) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (4) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Gema Active Search Sensor MR4-R1 (1) GPS 56 Range 4. 5m km Resolution 1
Freja Active Search Sensor MR58-R130 (1) GPS 8320 Range 58. 4m km Resolution 130
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1. 6-12. 8 (1) Sensitivity 12. 8 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12. 8m km
ECCM-1 (1) ECM 10
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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Finally my close in brawler. . . . One thing obviously I the turrets need to work with the close range high TS rate. . . . do you in some way ahve to link these as it seems to take the TS of the turret and the range of the long range fire control. . .
For one, the non-turretted lasers will have a tracking speed of 3937km/s. Depending on which fire control you pair the turrets with, they'll either be 14000km/s or 5000km/s. You could re-engineer the turrets to 16000km/s tracking to match the Wyrd FC. But you would be sacrificing 20 to 60% of your range. If you pair it with the Tyr, you've got range, but then you might as well not even turret them.
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I understand that but how do you pair them up? Is it during combat? Or during design?
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Sort of both the design stage and in combat. I the design stage decide what you want the ship to do, and match the fire controll and weapons to the design concept. Is it a long range beam ship with heavy weapons then a long range fire control, a tracking speed to match the ships speed, and weapons that match the range. For point defense the fire control is optimized for tracking speed instead and the weapons need a matching speed to work well, ect. Actually assigning the weapons to fire control and setting the pd stuff takes place the the Combat Assignments screen (F8) Select a fire control, assign the weapons from the next box below to the fire control, the eccm you want, and if it is a missile system the missile that you are going to fire from it. Do this when the ship is first built and then periodically repeat. Once you have assigned all of the fire controls on the ship look over to the right. There is a set of buttons that allows you to copy the setup to all of your ships either locally, or in your entire empire. Use this. to make things easier. Also in setup on the right side there is a box for the point defense setup. Always assign all of your non heavy missile launchers a pd setup and enable at least final defensive fire(not self only) This way when someone suprises you with a missile strike while you are in orbit your pd weapons will fire. It is actually a very good reason to have at least one CIWS system on a ship in each fleet as this will let you see the incomming missiles in time to shoot at them with your beam weapons generally.
Brian
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Much better base designs. They are not what I'd build, but I don't think any two of us follow the same design concepts. That's a good thing and the strength of Aurora. Brian has already hit the high points that I would have.
Now good and build your empire and fight your foe's!! That will tell you if the designs are right for you.
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@Brian thanks for the advice mate...I got the design phase just not the combat phase...
@Charlie...hurrah....looks like I'm getting there...I understand the building aspect now....now to work out industry!!! I always hate econimics in my wargames...thats why I avoid grand strategy....still this has be by the b###s...
Hows this for a fast attack craft? I have a feeling my tech is no where near good enough for this sort of ship...need more powerfull engines I think...I wanted to design a fighter and soon realised I had no chance in hell.....fuel is a problem....it would need to refuel at a tanker if I had any i expect....looks like I need to hold on for awhile before I get fighters up and ready...
Rheinland class Fast Attack Craft 6,400 tons 642 Crew 977.6 BP TCS 128 TH 1020 EM 0
7968 km/s Armour 1-30 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 9
Annual Failure Rate: 163% IFR: 2.3% Maint Capacity 191 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 1.01 Years
Military Ion Engine E7 (17) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 20.1 billion km (29 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (1) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 9 Armour 0 Exp 5%
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When i started playing i was so lost with designing ships that would work. What helped me get over the hurdle was one of Steve's AAR's about his game showing his designs. I got to see his designs and why he did them. I used them as base templates to start building my ships. Since then i vary them some but stick to most of the things i learned from them and their prinicple design and role in fleets.
Here is the thread that helped me have a base point
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,2486.0.html
Hope it helps.
-Five
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@Brian thanks for the advice mate...I got the design phase just not the combat phase...
@Charlie...hurrah....looks like I'm getting there...I understand the building aspect now....now to work out industry!!! I always hate econimics in my wargames...thats why I avoid grand strategy....still this has be by the b###s...
Hows this for a fast attack craft? I have a feeling my tech is no where near good enough for this sort of ship...need more powerfull engines I think...I wanted to design a fighter and soon realised I had no chance in hell.....fuel is a problem....it would need to refuel at a tanker if I had any i expect....looks like I need to hold on for awhile before I get fighters up and ready...
Rheinland class Fast Attack Craft 6,400 tons 642 Crew 977.6 BP TCS 128 TH 1020 EM 0
7968 km/s Armour 1-30 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 9
Annual Failure Rate: 163% IFR: 2.3% Maint Capacity 191 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 1.01 Years
Military Ion Engine E7 (17) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 20.1 billion km (29 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (1) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 9 Armour 0 Exp 5%
What´s its mission?
I mean, yes, it can catch pretty much any enemy with the same engine tech and even most with one level better, but then what? With no armor at all and only two popguns, what is it going to do?
To me, this is the first question, when you start designing a ship. What is this ships mission? Then you design a ship that can fulfill that misison.
Btw, in Aurora, FACs are usually up to 1.000t (and use a the special FAC-Engine, of which you can only mount a single one). The 1.000t limit is due to the fact that only ships of more than 1.000t need a bridge, so you can save some space by staying under (and even with a powerful (but fuel-hungry) FAC-engine, your ship starts to get pretty slow fast once it grows)
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<snip>
Hows this for a fast attack craft? I have a feeling my tech is no where near good enough for this sort of ship...need more powerfull engines I think...I wanted to design a fighter and soon realised I had no chance in hell.....fuel is a problem....it would need to refuel at a tanker if I had any i expect....looks like I need to hold on for awhile before I get fighters up and ready...
Rheinland class Fast Attack Craft 6,400 tons 642 Crew 977.6 BP TCS 128 TH 1020 EM 0
7968 km/s Armour 1-30 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/13/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 9
Annual Failure Rate: 163% IFR: 2.3% Maint Capacity 191 MSP Max Repair 115 MSP Est Time: 1.01 Years
Military Ion Engine E7 (17) Power 60 Fuel Use 70% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 20.1 billion km (29 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Wyrd Fire Control S06 48-16000 (1) Max Range: 96,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (1) Total Power Output 9 Armour 0 Exp 5%
FAC/GB (fast attack craft/gunboat) have a specialized engine type that needs to be researched and they are restricted to only 1 per ship. They have higher output and worse fuel usage then standard military engines. FAC/GB's max size is 1000t.
Fighters also have a specialized engine type also with a restriction of 1 and cost 12,000 research points, most players do not use this as a starting tech. Too really be functional they have other specialized ship systems. Fighter beam fire control is a smaller version of a 4X tracking speed that is restricted to fighters only. There are command modules in place of crew quarters, smaller engineering and fuel also. Fighter max tonnage is 500. For missile fighters box launchers are an implied requirement.
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@Hawkeye....until I actually start fighting I've no idea how powerful a weapon is...pure guess work....I did know this was a non starter...it was just my fumbled attempt to see if I could do a small fighter for fighter to fighter combat (if there even is such a thing in the game)....I soon realised my tech was terrible and I couldn't do it......
I wonder if anyone has done a conventional start and played sides (similar to Steve' AAR) and gone to war against each other and then seen how the conventional designs match up against each other....would be interesting...I haven't looked at the conventional tech so i don't know how close it is to modern tech. I'm thinking along the lines of future versions of our present day fighters etc...
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@Hawkeye....until I actually start fighting I've no idea how powerful a weapon is...pure guess work....I did know this was a non starter...it was just my fumbled attempt to see if I could do a small fighter for fighter to fighter combat (if there even is such a thing in the game)....I soon realised my tech was terrible and I couldn't do it......
Well, look at this line from your ship
Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2) Range 96,000km TS: 14000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 4 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
The last line of numbers is the damage the lasers will deal.
As your max. range is 96k, you can see that each laser will deal 3 pts of damage out to a range of about 40.000km, 2 pts of damage out to about 60.000km and a single point of damage out to its max. range.
One of my missle armed FACs
Trident class Fast Attack Craft 1000 tons 90 Crew 172 BP TCS 20 TH 94.5 EM 0
6300 km/s Armour 1-8 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 1 PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 8% IFR: 0.1% Maint Capacity 108 MSP Max Repair 48 MSP Est Time: 7.02 Years
Magazine 44
Avernum Sollum Class 126/75 Ion Gunboat-Engine (1) Power 126 Fuel Use 770% Signature 94.5 Armour 0 Exp 21%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 11.7 billion km (21 days at full power)
Balliste Class ASM Launcher (4) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 150
Opius Verena Class 25/16 MFC (1) Range 25.3m km Resolution 16
Javelin ASM-3 (15) Speed: 28,000 km/s End: 12.7m Range: 21.4m km WH: 4 Size: 3 TH: 130 / 78 / 39
And a laser armed FAC (Note: Armor is compressed carbon armor, which is pretty high tech)
Agrariensis class Fast Attack Craft 1,000 tons 134 Crew 212 BP TCS 20 TH 63 EM 0
6300 km/s Armour 2-8 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 8
Annual Failure Rate: 16% IFR: 0.2% Maint Capacity 66 MSP Max Repair 75 MSP Est Time: 2.83 Years
Naves Agariensis Ionentriebwerk 126 (1) Power 126 Fuel Use 770% Signature 63 Armour 0 Exp 21%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 11.7 billion km (21 days at full power)
120mm/L120/R10 NUV Laserkanone (2) Range 120,000km TS: 6300 km/s Power 4-2 RM 3 ROF 10 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
Destinati 6/80 Zielsystem (1) Max Range: 160,000 km TS: 6250 km/s 94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Schneller Brüter 4,5 (1) Total Power Output 4.5 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Investigatio 1,8/16 (1) GPS 68 Range 1.8m km Resolution 16
A missile armed fighter (alas, this has allready a magneto plasma fighter engine)
Cobra class Fighter-bomber 250 tons 4 Crew 53.7 BP TCS 5 TH 12.72 EM 0
10600 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 0 PPV 2.4
Annual Failure Rate: 5% IFR: 0.1% Maint Capacity 13 MSP Max Repair 18 MSP Est Time: 4.89 Years
Magazine 16
General Dynamics Class 53/25 Fighter MPD Engine (1) Power 52.8 Fuel Use 8400% Signature 12.672 Armour 0 Exp 50%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres Range 2.6 billion km (67 hours at full power)
Starkiller ASM-2 Box-Launcher (8) Missile Size 2 Hangar Reload 15 minutes MF Reload 2.5 hours
Fighter Missile-Firecontrol Mk. I (1) Range 31.0m km Resolution 80
Starkiller ASM-2 (8) Speed: 36,000 km/s End: 9.1m Range: 19.7m km WH: 4 Size: 2 TH: 192 / 115 / 57