Aurora 4x
New Players => The Academy => Topic started by: zazu on November 11, 2011, 01:32:25 PM
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Best way to Terraform Mars?
I tried adding greenhouse gasses and that raised the atmosphere level but I have no idea what else I should add or get rid of, gas wise.
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You need to add at least enough oxygen to meet your minimum oxygen requirements. If you haven't altered anything from the default that should be 0.1 atmospheres. Next you need to add enough gass that the oxygen is less than or equal to 30% of the total, so you need at least 0.2334 atmospheres of other gasses. As you need to warm it up as well you can use CO2 for this.
The exact order of doing this can vary if you are trying to optimise your colony crowth, eg on very cold/hot worlds it is better to warm it up/cool it down, until you drop to a colony cost close to 2.0 before adding the oxygen.
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The two things you need to make a planet livable are an appropriate oxygen content and temperature. You can see both for your race in the top right corner of the system view window (yellow sun icon). Add Safe Greenhouse Gas to the atmosphere until you've got the right temperature, then add oxygen to your race's required level and you're good to go.
Note - Some planets will have hazardous gases you'll need to remove or a temperature you'll need to lower by either adding Anti-Greenhouse gas or removing any greenhouse gases already present.
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Add Safe Greenhouse Gas to the atmosphere until you've got the right temperature, then add oxygen to your race's required level and you're good to go.
I do it in the opposite order. I generally start by adding enough Oxygen to make the atmosphere breathable, then enough Greenhouse Gas to raise the temperature enough to make the world class-0.
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The reason to add/remove the gasses to alter the temperature first if it is a high colony cost, is that the lack of a breathable atmosphere, too little oxygen/over 30%/poisonous gasses gives a fixed colony cost of 2 while high/low temperatures can be much higher colony cost.
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Thanks for the clarification!
So I added like 500 infra to Mars, when I terraform it slowly does that mean that at some point that Infra can be re-used elsewhere? Because i noticed the cost was decreasing.
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Yes, though i generally ship in more colonists rather than move the infrastructure. At least until terraforming is completely or mostly so.
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Thanks for the clarification!
So I added like 500 infra to Mars, when I terraform it slowly does that mean that at some point that Infra can be re-used elsewhere? Because i noticed the cost was decreasing.
Yes.
In fact, if you have a strong Civilian market sector, they will be producing additional Infrastructure and selling it on Mars, so that by the time that Mars reaches class-0 and needs no Infrastructure at all, you might have tens of thousands of units available there... enough to last your other colonies for much of the game.
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The reason to add/remove the gasses to alter the temperature first if it is a high colony cost, is that the lack of a breathable atmosphere, too little oxygen/over 30%/poisonous gasses gives a fixed colony cost of 2 while high/low temperatures can be much higher colony cost.
True, but since I (at least) usually colonize the available class-2 worlds before trying to terraform the less hospitable ones, the unbreathable atmosphere (usually due to lack of Oxygen) makes up the bulk of the colony cost... so I address that matter first.
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Yes.
In fact, if you have a strong Civilian market sector, they will be producing additional Infrastructure and selling it on Mars, so that by the time that Mars reaches class-0 and needs no Infrastructure at all, you might have tens of thousands of units available there. . . enough to last your other colonies for much of the game.
Hmmm, I did a previous run of a game and then shipping lanes sprung up pretty quickly.
I tried to do the same but they don't want to buy a freighter even thought I already have some in my fleet.
I even subsidized them, what could be wrong? Just chance?
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They won't usually buy much until you have some colonies.
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In fact, if you have a strong Civilian market sector, they will be producing additional Infrastructure and selling it on Mars, so that by the time that Mars reaches class-0 and needs no Infrastructure at all, you might have tens of thousands of units available there... enough to last your other colonies for much of the game.
It's actually even better than that. The infrastructure not only appears out of nowhere for free, but it actually makes you money doing so. Civilian freighters shipping infrastructure produce money just like any other cargo, making large amounts of money for both you and your shipping lines. And since it's such a short trip, it's an extremely profitable run. Colonizing Mars is a great way to get money in the early game, and beef up your civilian shipping sector in the process.
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They won't usually buy much until you have some colonies.
I got Luna, Mars, Mercury and some random Asteroid right now.
I guess I'll just have to be patient
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You have PEOPLE on Luna, Mercury and an Asteroid? Or just automated mines?
When I mentioned "colonies", I meant "colonies with people".
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You have PEOPLE on Luna, Mercury and an Asteroid? Or just automated mines?
When I mentioned "colonies", I meant "colonies with people".
Gotya, I'll need some people on my colonies
Thanks!
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Luna, Mercury and the Asteroid are probably not habitable. Once you have a few dozen million people on Mars, the civilian shipping lines will probably start investing.
They won't start servicing colonies in other solar systems unless you design jump-capable civilian ships for them, or... my own preference... build jump gates to connect-up the areas that you WANT the civvies to service.
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Mercury is inhabitable by baseline humans, though the colony cost is fairly high, Luna isn't unless you have heavily genemodded a race or started with an 83% grav tollerance range.
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You need quite a few people on a colony before its really a viable trade route, 20 million is a pretty good target minimum. You can do that on mars without terraforming, tho its expensive in duranium. On the plus side it makes a really easy/fast trade route.
I wouldn't subsidize civilians until/unless you have a good wealth income.
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I got the hang of terraforming now and now Mars is no longer supported by infrastructure
I decided to terraform a pretty much almost perfect planet, this wouldn't take long I thought.
Only thing I needed to raise were oxygen pressure levels.
I did that and got it to 0.060 which is the minimum for humans.
The event log then said the planet was suitable, but it still has a colony cost attached to it. How can I fix this, did i miss out on something?
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I got the hang of terraforming now and now Mars is no longer supported by infrastructure
I decided to terraform a pretty much almost perfect planet, this wouldn't take long I thought.
Only thing I needed to raise were oxygen pressure levels.
I did that and got it to 0.060 which is the minimum for humans.
The event log then said the planet was suitable, but it still has a colony cost attached to it. How can I fix this, did i miss out on something?
Colony costs include temp, pressure, gravity, and water (I think). So it's more than just getting some O2 into the atmosphere. :)
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Hah, alright
But I wonder why I got the message then in the first place...
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It gives you a message when the atmosphere becomes breathable, and another when the ice melts (if you are warming up an ice-house world).
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Well, it was -2.0 Celsius when I encountered it
The tectonics line says it's dead though, could this be why?
Also, there's a little bit of Neon and 60% Nitrogen in the atmosphere, could this be why it won't go?
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The tectonics line says it's dead though, could this be why?
Also, there's a little bit of Neon and 60% Nitrogen in the atmosphere, could this be why it won't go?
No, both of those are fine. It's probably the temperature. Add a bit of Safe Greenhouse Gas.
It could also be the gravity... but there isn't much you can do about that except for biological engineering.
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There's a very badly-explained thing where if the atmosphere is more than 30% oxygen the colony cost is 2.0 as if the air was unbreathable. Is this the case here?
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If you look at the planet in the System Information panel, you can see what specific factors are causing a colony cost problem. Oxygen 30% will be noted here, as will the temperature multiplier or the presence of noxious gases or an unbreathable atmosphere.
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Where can I find System Information?
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Big yellow sun button in the center of the top row on the main window.
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Ah, it says it has no breathable atmosphere
Also, it says something about being above 30% oxygen
But how can I get a breathable atmosphere if I have to lower oxygen levels?
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Just add another gas to dilute the Oxygen concentration.
If it's still a bit chilly, add "Safe Greenhouse Gas". If the high Oxygen levels are the only problem, add something harmless like Nitrogen.
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Thanks Blue Emu
Think I'm heading into the right direction now.
Btw... do you happen to also be on the Paradox forums? I remember seeing a "Emu" there but it might just be a coincidence :)
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Thanks Blue Emu
Think I'm heading into the right direction now.
Btw... do you happen to also be on the Paradox forums? I remember seeing a "Emu" there but it might just be a coincidence :)
That's me, yes... I'm a Moderator on the Paradox board. We play "community" Aurora games in the Off Topic - Forum Games section.
My Ad Astra campaign can be found half-way down this page:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?419-OT-Forum-Games
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I like to use Carbon Dioxide instead of the "Safe" gas... xD
A little bit less handwavium, and apparently it doesnt kill people. Oo
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Woo, there
Finally I can expand this mineral-rich planet! :D
Thanks for all the help guys!
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I like to use Carbon Dioxide instead of the "Safe" gas... xD
A little bit less handwavium, and apparently it doesnt kill people. Oo
:D I'm even more anal. I add Carbon Dioxide up to .1 atms, that's a lot more than we have on Earth, so any plants will be fine, but I don't go up any higher than that because you start getting into the human-lethal range (not in game, in real life) so after putting in .1 atm CO2 I switch over to "Safe Greenhouse Gas" if I still need more heat.
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:D I'm even more anal. I add Carbon Dioxide up to .1 atms, that's a lot more than we have on Earth, so any plants will be fine, but I don't go up any higher than that because you start getting into the human-lethal range (not in game, in real life) so after putting in .1 atm CO2 I switch over to "Safe Greenhouse Gas" if I still need more heat.
Are you sure it's to do with pressure? I thought Carbon Dioxide was deadly in high concentrations (rather than pressures) because it prevents adequate diffusion of oxygen from and carbon dioxide into the blood stream. Deadly at about 4%.
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Are you sure it's to do with pressure? I thought Carbon Dioxide was deadly in high concentrations (rather than pressures) because it prevents adequate diffusion of oxygen from and carbon dioxide into the blood stream. Deadly at about 4%.
You are totally right about CO2 being poisonous earlier than I thought, after some looking it looks like the difference is about split between what we each thought. Symptoms start setting in at a bit before 3%, and progress in seriousness, at 8% loss of consciousness is imminent.
Pretty much all gases work off of partial pressure as far as their affects on... well, really anything. The 10% to 30% Oxygen thing in this game isn't realistic. The Apollo and Mercury astronauts were perfectly fine with 100% oxygen, because the pressure was low enough that the partial pressures were about right. Likewise I remember that during Apollo 13 the CO2 got to around 13%, which would have killed them at 1 atm, but they were alright at the .5 atm of the Apollo. For a chart showing the acceptable region oxygen percentiles at various pressures, and examples of where different spacecraft/stations fell you can go here:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080032549_2008032394.pdf
The picture is on page 4 of the report, which is page 12 of the PDF. Note that that green line denoting "perfect conditions" follows almost exactly along the ".22 atm partial pressure oxygen" line.
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Oxygen is toxic at high pressures, yes, but I wasn't sure that the pressure of CO2 affected it's toxicity particularly. Provided the percentage was acceptable. I could be wrong though.
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My terraforming procedure is rather simple. A "megaformer" class ship with an OH and 50-100 terraforming modules, towed in by a special tug. Once there, raise oxygen to acceptable limits (usually ideal for the species, venetian paradise style), then remove any toxic gasses, then add safe greenhouse or anti-greenhouse as needed to adjust temperature. This is usually done by-hand, adding or removing and watching the temperature ranges from one month to another and tweaking from there. Very imprecise as far as stellar manipulation goes, but it works.