Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: GenJeFT on March 26, 2013, 11:50:27 PM
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This is my very first ship capable of combat. I did a conventional start so my tech level is still REALLY low.
County class Corvette 3000 tons 88 Crew 368 BP TCS 60 TH 60 EM 0
1000 km/s Armour 2-18 Shields 0-0 Sensors 12/12/0/0 Damage Control 3 PPV 14
Annual Failure Rate: 0% IFR: 0% Maintenance Capacity 230 MSP
Spare Berths 0
10 EP Nuclear Thermal Engine (6) Power 10 Fuel Use 88. 2% Armour 0 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 13. 6 billion km (157 days at full power)
Single Gauss Cannon R1-100 Turret (2x1) Range 10,000km TS: 3350 km/s Power 0-0 RM 1 ROF 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 16-2000 (1) Max Range: 32,000 km TS: 2000 km/s 69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Signature 1000: 12m km
Active Search Sensor MR43-R100 (1) GPS 7200 Range 43. 2m km Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR13-R40 (1) GPS 1440 Range 13. 7m km Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR1-R1 (1) GPS 24 Range 1. 4m km Resolution 1
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Strength 1000: 12m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I am well aware the ship is a joke. Its my first test of scanners and turrets. I have a faster turret tracking speed then fire control tracking speed because I wanted some buffer for future fire control systems. The sensors turned out a bit underwhelming but oh well. The main purpose of this ship is to provide targeting data for its escorting gunships and as a result has minimal armament. I am also aware that the Fire Controls range is much farther then the guns range. I have some built in buffers for future weapons upgrades and so on.
In retrospect I think that the fast turret is kinda bad because I will have to redesign it for longer range guns. It is also a rather slow ship.
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I wouldn't use it as a main-line combatant. It seems to be more of a dedicated sensor ship. Those Gauss Cannons aren't going to save the ship from anything, since even low tech missiles can hit 6000km/s.
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Looks pretty good overall.
Personally, I´d drop the res-40 to a res-20 active, as that is the maximum size of FACs and your sensors could see one of those only out to some 3.5 mkm.
You don´t seem to be using a 4 x tracking speed firecon for your turret, which you should, if it is supposed to intercept incomming missiles.
You could get a bit more speed out of it with fewer but larger engines and keepint them at the same fuel-efficiency, but overall, the speed looks ok for a nuclear thermal ship (this is, of course, a matter of personal preferances)
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Looks pretty good overall.
Personally, I´d drop the res-40 to a res-20 active, as that is the maximum size of FACs and your sensors could see one of those only out to some 3.5 mkm.
You don´t seem to be using a 4 x tracking speed firecon for your turret, which you should, if it is supposed to intercept incomming missiles.
You could get a bit more speed out of it with fewer but larger engines and keepint them at the same fuel-efficiency, but overall, the speed looks ok for a nuclear thermal ship (this is, of course, a matter of personal preferances)
I'm seconding this, it is otherwise a solid design with good speed for it's tech and enough range to defend Sol.
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It looks like you are running a version prior to 6.0 as I don't see anything for deployment time. Actually looking at it again something weird seems to be up as it is not displaying maintenance life either.
Overall it looks like a reasonable design for a primary sensor ship. Engines and fuel are fine for this tech level. Armour is a little weak but at your tech level each layer takes up considerable space so that is something to fix as you tech up.
I wouldn't worry too much about putting the turret tracking speed higher than that of your fire-control as you will want to refit the turrets as soon as you research an increased rate of fire for your gauss cannons and you can increase the tracking speed then. I'd also make it a dual turret rather than two single ones as that gives a small space saving. I've also noticed you are using full size gauss cannons in your turrets, I'd suggest dropping down to size 4 cannons and allow crew training to make up the reduced accuracy.
Use a 4x tracking speed fire-control, that will give you an 8000 tracking speed at your tech level, giving a much better chance of shooting down any incoming missiles. Don't worry much about range, gauss cannon never really get effective ranges beyond point-blank. Once you research a couple of levels of beam fire-control range start using the reduced range multipliers to make smaller fire-controls.
Your resolution 1 active sensor needs to be increased in size, as it stands it will only pick up size 6 or smaller missiles(the most likely sizes for you to meet) at around 155,000 km. This is small enough that it is possible for a missile to cross all or most of that range in a single 5 second increment removing or reducing your ability to fire on it and removing your ability to benefit from the missile tracking over time tech. I'd suggest doubling or tripling it's size.
I'd suggest going slightly further than Hawkeye suggested with your resolution 40 sensor and drop it down to resolution 16. There is a particular type of ship you can run into in large numbers at that size.
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I wouldn't use it as a main-line combatant. It seems to be more of a dedicated sensor ship. Those Gauss Cannons aren't going to save the ship from anything, since even low tech missiles can hit 6000km/s.
It is a dedicated sensor ship. Its meant to work with 3 to 5 other ships of a similar size to this one and it feeds targeting data to the other ships. The guns are so it can defend itself to a limited extent. Also, I did not know missiles get that fast this quick (I have not designed any missiles).
Personally, I´d drop the res-40 to a res-20 active, as that is the maximum size of FACs and your sensors could see one of those only out to some 3. 5 mkm.
You don´t seem to be using a 4 x tracking speed firecon for your turret, which you should, if it is supposed to intercept incomming missiles.
You could get a bit more speed out of it with fewer but larger engines and keepint them at the same fuel-efficiency, but overall, the speed looks ok for a nuclear thermal ship (this is, of course, a matter of personal preferances)
I am now going to redesign the 40 res to a 16 as Metalax suggested. How do I make a 4 x tracking speed firecon for the turrets? I am also going to try your engine idea for later on, after all, I can just refit the ship.
It looks like you are running a version prior to 6. 0 as I don't see anything for deployment time. Actually looking at it again something weird seems to be up as it is not displaying maintenance life either.
Overall it looks like a reasonable design for a primary sensor ship. Engines and fuel are fine for this tech level. Armour is a little weak but at your tech level each layer takes up considerable space so that is something to fix as you tech up.
I wouldn't worry too much about putting the turret tracking speed higher than that of your fire-control as you will want to refit the turrets as soon as you research an increased rate of fire for your gauss cannons and you can increase the tracking speed then. I'd also make it a dual turret rather than two single ones as that gives a small space saving. I've also noticed you are using full size gauss cannons in your turrets, I'd suggest dropping down to size 4 cannons and allow crew training to make up the reduced accuracy.
Use a 4x tracking speed fire-control, that will give you an 8000 tracking speed at your tech level, giving a much better chance of shooting down any incoming missiles. Don't worry much about range, gauss cannon never really get effective ranges beyond point-blank. Once you research a couple of levels of beam fire-control range start using the reduced range multipliers to make smaller fire-controls.
Your resolution 1 active sensor needs to be increased in size, as it stands it will only pick up size 6 or smaller missiles(the most likely sizes for you to meet) at around 155,000 km. This is small enough that it is possible for a missile to cross all or most of that range in a single 5 second increment removing or reducing your ability to fire on it and removing your ability to benefit from the missile tracking over time tech. I'd suggest doubling or tripling it's size.
I'd suggest going slightly further than Hawkeye suggested with your resolution 40 sensor and drop it down to resolution 16. There is a particular type of ship you can run into in large numbers at that size.
I noticed the turret speed issue in retrospect, I will have to quickly redesign that turret in the near future because of the short range gun. I also have two single turrets instead of one dual turrets for redundency. Less likely for the ships weapons to be taken out completely. I like redundancy in weapons, it has saved me many times in other games. At the moment I am not worried about the resolution 1 active sensor, even if the missile is not detected till around 155,000km my fire control can only lock on to it at 16,000km and weapons cant fire until 10,000km. I to an extent expect the missiles to cross the fire zone before anything shoots anyway due to the missile speed of 6,000km/s. That's less then 1. 5 seconds in the fire zone for the guns. I need to redesign that. Lets see what I can do while keeping it within the less then 3k ton range for Corvettes.
Also, it does have a deployment time of 3. 2 months and a maintenance life of 10 years with an annual failure rate of 24%. I do not know why that did not show. The information I copied and choppied is from the ship design display and not the class design display. I do not know why they are different.
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One reason to pick out the missiles early even if you can't shoot them is the tracking time bonus. The longer you have them on scopes, the higher bonus you get (also dependent on the tech level in missile tracking time bonus, of course). Might not be much at low tech, but every little bit can help in the numbers game against missiles.
And there's a button somewhere on the class design sheet to dump all your designs to a text file in the Aurora folder. Can be easier for exporting designs, depending on your preference.
Otherwise, I second (and third, and fourth) other folks: totally respectable low-tech surveillance and targeting ship. I'll be interested to see what the accompanying ships in its task group will be.
Edit: Oh, and for the 4x fire-con: on the research page, the (I think) 3rd and 4th dropdowns allow you to go up to 4x for range and up to 4x for speed. So if your base tech level Fire Control speed is 2,000 km/s, you can quad the size and get it to 8,000 km/s. That's a hard limit for fire control, is 4x your tech level. Turret tracking speed can (theoretically) go much higher than the turret tracking tech level, but it becomes unworkable pretty quick.
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At the tech level your at the sensor suite mostly works, as others have stated. What is going to hurt though is that res 1. It is reasonable to expect NPR's to have missiles with at least a speed of 15k/kps which will travel 75k/km in 5 seconds(minimum game cycle). Because of the programmed sequence of play you have to be able to detect them at greater than 5 seconds for point defense final fire too have a chance to engage. For now your res 1 can handle that, with the assumption of missile speed being in the 15k/kps range.
If you invested in tracking bonus you'll need a much greater ranged res 1 though. The bonus accumulates at a rate of 2% per 5 second cycle you've detected a given salvo.
Personally I'd replace the entire weapons suite based on your available tech with 10cm railguns. Match this with a single 4x (range not speed) beam fire control and you have a much more flexible and redundant weapons mix.
At this ship size your not really getting much useful redundancy with 6 2hs engines. I'd go with 3 size 5 engines (25% of ship vs current 20%) for a speed of 1,250kps and a slightly better operating range.
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Just to point out something. "Sensor Ship" fails at this tech level. If it is the only thing active in your task group, then it will die, and this ship will last ohh 3 volleys or about 1 minute under fire. At higher tech levels you may be able to protect your sensor ship but at the moment your ships had better be able to see what they are planning on targetting by themselves. It might also die in the first volley as well if you get hit with 60 or so size 1 missiles.
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Just to point out something. "Sensor Ship" fails at this tech level. If it is the only thing active in your task group, then it will die, and this ship will last ohh 3 volleys or about 1 minute under fire. At higher tech levels you may be able to protect your sensor ship but at the moment your ships had better be able to see what they are planning on targetting by themselves. It might also die in the first volley as well if you get hit with 60 or so size 1 missiles.
This ship is not meant to have active search scanners on all the time. The idea is for earth to identify a contact of some sort, at which point this ship and its escorts move out to identify, scanners stay off until they are within range. This ship and its escorts "should" be able to get very close before being detected because of the small size of the ships. At which point when the target is identified they may engage if the target is hostile. The other ships will have their own scanners, just not as good.
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This ship is not meant to have active search scanners on all the time. The idea is for earth to identify a contact of some sort, at which point this ship and its escorts move out to identify, scanners stay off until they are within range. This ship and its escorts "should" be able to get very close before being detected because of the small size of the ships. At which point when the target is identified they may engage if the target is hostile. The other ships will have their own scanners, just not as good.
In that case you can completely drop both passives. Even before that, they are of relatively little use.
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In that case you can completely drop both passives. Even before that, they are of relatively little use.
Yea. I built one and looked at the sensor ranges. The passive scanners are utterly useless. The second version of the ship, in addition to better engines, no longer has passive scanners. Design work is still ongoing.
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Dropping the passives can be a good idea if the class is going to be limited to strictly system defence duties and you have good passive coverage via ground facilities. For ships that are going to be jumping into unexplored or unsettled systems however you will want at least good passive thermal sensors, although it may be better to build dedicated passive detection ships if you are going to stick to such tiny class sizes.
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Looks like I need to rush development now.
I just started exploring other systems and there are wreaked ships EVERYWHERE! Fleets of them floating in space.
On the other hand salvage will be good.
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The replacement for the County.
Deuchland I class Destroyer 7,000 tons 180 Crew 993.8 BP TCS 140 TH 240 EM 0
2285 km/s Armour 3-32 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 8 PPV 41.71
Maint Life 6.97 Years MSP 710 AFR 49% IFR 0.7% 1YR 26 5YR 383 Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 0
80 EP NP Engine (4) Power 80 Fuel Use 63% Signature 60 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 260,000 Litres Range 10.6 billion km (53 days at full power)
Twin Gauss Cannon R2-50 Turret (2x2) Range 20,000km TS: 6000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 2 ROF 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Twin Gauss Cannon R2-50 Turret (No Armor) (1x2) Range 20,000km TS: 6000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 2 ROF 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
15cm Railgun V3/C3 Destroyer MAC Cannon (1x4) Range 90,000km TS: 3000 km/s Power 9-3 RM 3 ROF 15 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 0
Fire Control S02 32-6000 (1) Max Range: 64,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S03 96-3000 H70 (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 3000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Active Search Sensor MR12-R10 (1) GPS 480 Range 12.1m km Resolution 10
Active Search Sensor MR151-R140 (1) GPS 22400 Range 151.5m km Resolution 140
Active Search Sensor MR5-R1 (1) GPS 64 Range 5.1m km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
And the ship that stays near it.
Cutter class Destroyer Escort 5,000 tons 126 Crew 719 BP TCS 100 TH 180 EM 0
2400 km/s Armour 3-26 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 23.13
Maint Life 4.99 Years MSP 360 AFR 50% IFR 0.7% 1YR 24 5YR 361 Max Repair 160 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Spare Berths 2
80 EP NP Engine (3) Power 80 Fuel Use 63% Signature 60 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres Range 17.1 billion km (82 days at full power)
Twin Gauss Cannon R2-50 Turret (No Armor) (3x2) Range 20,000km TS: 6000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 2 ROF 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S02 32-6000 (1) Max Range: 64,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
Active Search Sensor MR151-R140 (1) GPS 22400 Range 151.5m km Resolution 140
Active Search Sensor MR5-R1 (1) GPS 64 Range 5.1m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR12-R10 (1) GPS 480 Range 12.1m km Resolution 10
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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The Deuchland I looks good, overall.
I´d reduce the Maint. Life quite a bit, given that the deployment time is only 3 months though.
Perhaps increase fuel/deployment time a bit at the cost of it, because with those numbers, training up a task group of those will be quite tedious, having to pull them back to base for re-fuel/shore leave all the time.
If you play without fleet experience _and_ intend them only inside your home system, range/deployment time are fine, however.
I´d also go the full "4 x size, 4 x tracking speed" road for the gauss turret´s firecon.
Either you put your guns into turrets for anti-missile work --> as much tracking speed as you can get
or you put them in fixed mounts (as your railgun) --> as much tracking range as you can get (don´t take that literally. Obviously, a 400.000 km range FC doesn´t make sense for a 40.000 km range gun)
Pretty much everything above goes for the Cutter too.
In addition, I´d only keep the res-1 sensor on that ship and strenghten the point defense capability instead.
Also, if you intend to keep at least two of those in company with the Deuchland, I´d reduce the gauss turrets on the Deuchland in favor of more railguns, to give it a bit more offensive punch.
This is, if you don´t have another type doing the offensive work.
If that is the case, drop the 15cm railgun for 10cm ones, which will have a better ROF and thus be superior at anti-missile work.
PS.: is the Deuchland actually meant to be named "Deutschland"?
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Yea. Its meant to be Deutchland but I cant spell it.
It may not matter in the end. I now get error 94 messages and I dont know how to fix it. Invalid use of Null.
Great game. But boy does it crash a lot.
Now I just have to find someplace where the value is 0 and it should not be.
*EDIT*
Never mind, I found the source of the error.
I designed those turrets as PD before I carried out my own missile design tests and found out exactly how fast missiles can travel. The ships are also designed to take on a specific opponent that has no weapons other then missiles and for some reason seems to have almost no ability to launch those missiles beyond point blank range. It has to close within 20,000 km to fire. So point defense in this situation is a questionable value anyway.
Also, to get an idea on how I aim to design my ships, look at WWII ship design. Destroyers will tend to have multipurpose guns.
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The Deuchland has a critical flaw, no powerplant for the railgun. You need a 1hs plant to feed that C3.
Why the two turret versions for the Gauss Cannons? Personally I don't use the armor for turrets, by the time you taking internal damage in ships this small they don't have much staying power left.
You've got a tech mismatch between S02 and S03. S02/4hs appears to be using 16k/km 50%/tracking speed 3k/kps (2X range/2Xspeed), while the S03/8hs appears to be using using 24k/km 50%/tracking speed 3k/kps (4X range/2Xspeed). At the very least upgrade the S02 to 24k/km 50%.
Assuming you've invested is tracking bonus 20% I remove all of those active sensors and add a single res 1/8hs suite. With the assumption that you'll be facing missiles in the 20k/kps speed range you need to track them for at least 50 seconds (1m/km). That 8hs sensor will see 1-6msp missiles at 1.1m/km and ships 50hs or larger at 10.2m/km. Add in a 5hs EM passive suite and you'll see most active sensors at a sufficient range to not be totally surprised. Thermal sensors are mostly a waste of space do to detection ranges being well inside of combat ranges.
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The Deuchland has a critical flaw, no powerplant for the railgun. You need a 1hs plant to feed that C3.
Why the two turret versions for the Gauss Cannons? Personally I don't use the armor for turrets, by the time you taking internal damage in ships this small they don't have much staying power left.
You've got a tech mismatch between S02 and S03. S02/4hs appears to be using 16k/km 50%/tracking speed 3k/kps (2X range/2Xspeed), while the S03/8hs appears to be using using 24k/km 50%/tracking speed 3k/kps (4X range/2Xspeed). At the very least upgrade the S02 to 24k/km 50%.
Assuming you've invested is tracking bonus 20% I remove all of those active sensors and add a single res 1/8hs suite. With the assumption that you'll be facing missiles in the 20k/kps speed range you need to track them for at least 50 seconds (1m/km). That 8hs sensor will see 1-6msp missiles at 1.1m/km and ships 50hs or larger at 10.2m/km. Add in a 5hs EM passive suite and you'll see most active sensors at a sufficient range to not be totally surprised. Thermal sensors are mostly a waste of space do to detection ranges being well inside of combat ranges.
I think your reading the S02 and S03 wrong. The S02 has accuracy of 50% at a range of 64k/km and tracking speed of 6k/km, its 2x range/2x speed meant for point defense. Turns out its completely unable to fight what I am up against but its not 16k/km and 3k/kps. The SO3 has a range of 192k/km and tracks at 3k/kps, which works for the MAC gun which unfortunately only shoots out to 92k/km. So that long range fire control wont need to be upgraded for a while. Unless your a reading the wrong ship stats. The county class is no longer used and only one was built for testing reasons.
The really long range sensor has proven to be great with its range of 151.5m/km. It detects long range targets with a lot of time to react (even after the target came in range it was another 10 hours before fighting began). The mid range scanner is a pile of dog poo, absolutely worthless and will be removed. The short range scanner for detecting missiles did a great job, only problem is its range is to short.
Also, 20k/kps speed missiles would be absolutely great right now. The ones I ran into with this one ship close at 30k/kps + and even then I was able to track them for about 30 seconds before impact. I am going to try and double the range of the PD scanner because its range is to short.
Two different turrets only exist because I wanted to cram more firepower onto the ship then initially planned. I am not making 3 armor turrets again for a ship that small because they did not help. They will probably be downgraded to single unarmored turrets. Maybe, just maybe twins.
I did not know about the railguns power requirement and the game generated no error. I figured the engines were providing enough power.
Other note, the first thing in the battle (which rapidly ran away because it was unarmed) to see the target was a jump capable scout that has a massive thermal suite. It spotted this ship at nearly twice as far as the active scanners could. The enemy ship did not even notice my fleet until I turned on the combat ships active scanners so it does not have much in the way of passive sensors.
This has been an interesting experience so far.
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I think your reading the S02 and S03 wrong. The S02 has accuracy of 50% at a range of 64k/km and tracking speed of 6k/km, its 2x range/2x speed meant for point defense. Turns out its completely unable to fight what I am up against but its not 16k/km and 3k/kps. The SO3 has a range of 192k/km and tracks at 3k/kps, which works for the MAC gun which unfortunately only shoots out to 92k/km. So that long range fire control wont need to be upgraded for a while. Unless your a reading the wrong ship stats. The county class is no longer used and only one was built for testing reasons.
Nope, you've actually confirmed that I was extrapolating correctly. I just didn't state it clearly. I was referencing the base tech selections made during the BFC design not the resulting specs. For Max Range 64k/km Tracking Speed 6k/kps (2xRange/2xSpeed) the base techs have to be (50% at 16k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps).
I did misstate on the S03. It should have been: For Max Range 192k/km Tracking Speed 3k/kps (4xRange/STDxSpeed) the base techs have to be (50% at 24k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps).
The tech mismatch between the BFC's is that S02 is using (50% at 16k/km) and S03 is using (50% at 24k/km).
For your PD BFC you'd be better served by using (STDxRange/4xSpeed) using (50% at 24k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps). The Max range will only be 48k/km for a base hit at 10k of 79% vs your current 84%, but the tracking speed will be 12k/kps vs 6k/kps. Against 30k/kps missiles that changes the base hit chance from 16.9% to 31.7%, just short of doubling your chances using the tech you already have.
The really long range sensor has proven to be great with its range of 151.5m/km. It detects long range targets with a lot of time to react (even after the target came in range it was another 10 hours before fighting began). The mid range scanner is a pile of dog poo, absolutely worthless and will be removed. The short range scanner for detecting missiles did a great job, only problem is its range is to short.
The downside to using that longer ranged active is the signature it puts out. The GPS of 22400 is also it's detectable signature. A 1hs EM sensor with your sensitivity tech will see at 179.2m/km. That's not good if your needing to slip into beam ranges undetected.
Also, 20k/kps speed missiles would be absolutely great right now. The ones I ran into with this one ship close at 30k/kps + and even then I was able to track them for about 30 seconds before impact. I am going to try and double the range of the PD scanner because its range is to short.
I presume that you have a larger res1 active on your scout. You'd need at least 7hs with your tech to track a 30k/kps missile for 30seconds. For 50seconds it needs to be at least 11hs.
Two different turrets only exist because I wanted to cram more firepower onto the ship then initially planned. I am not making 3 armor turrets again for a ship that small because they did not help. They will probably be downgraded to single unarmored turrets. Maybe, just maybe twins.
Take a look at what the volume of fire would be if you replaced to turrets all together with roughly the same mass of 10cm railguns (with the support powerplants)
I did not know about the railguns power requirement and the game generated no error. I figured the engines were providing enough power.
The Class design screen won't throw an error for lack of powerplants. Take look at the left side of the screen though. You'll find a couple of boxes that reference the required power per cycle and power generated to meet the requirement.
Other note, the first thing in the battle (which rapidly ran away because it was unarmed) to see the target was a jump capable scout that has a massive thermal suite. It spotted this ship at nearly twice as far as the active scanners could. The enemy ship did not even notice my fleet until I turned on the combat ships active scanners so it does not have much in the way of passive sensors.
While the OPFOR appears to not have had a thermal suite that could see your signature at range, the response to your Actives coming up shows that they do have EM sensors. Thermal sensors are fairly myopic (tactically) by comparison to EM. It's a function of the differences between the signatures being generated.
This has been an interesting experience so far.
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Nope, you've actually confirmed that I was extrapolating correctly. I just didn't state it clearly. I was referencing the base tech selections made during the BFC design not the resulting specs. For Max Range 64k/km Tracking Speed 6k/kps (2xRange/2xSpeed) the base techs have to be (50% at 16k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps).
I did misstate on the S03. It should have been: For Max Range 192k/km Tracking Speed 3k/kps (4xRange/STDxSpeed) the base techs have to be (50% at 24k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps).
The tech mismatch between the BFC's is that S02 is using (50% at 16k/km) and S03 is using (50% at 24k/km).
Ah, that makes more sense now.
For your PD BFC you'd be better served by using (STDxRange/4xSpeed) using (50% at 24k/km) and (Speed 3k/kps). The Max range will only be 48k/km for a base hit at 10k of 79% vs your current 84%, but the tracking speed will be 12k/kps vs 6k/kps. Against 30k/kps missiles that changes the base hit chance from 16.9% to 31.7%, just short of doubling your chances using the tech you already have.
I am going to bump up the tracking speed of the fire control system and the turret tracking speed to 12k/kps (I think I have tech to push it higher then that now as well). But I have to increase the range of the point defense fire control because there was not enough time for the weapons to fire even with how long I was able to track the missiles. Which seemed like a long time.
The downside to using that longer ranged active is the signature it puts out. The GPS of 22400 is also it's detectable signature. A 1hs EM sensor with your sensitivity tech will see at 179.2m/km. That's not good if your needing to slip into beam ranges undetected.
Yea, but it did give me some interesting information. I did a "commanders diary" as a fun project during this engagement (the engagement is not finished, but the diary is, the commander is dead). I turned on the active scanners at 12:42 on the 18th of March. From there it was not until 14:43 that it realized my ships were scanning it when it turned around and put distance between it and my ships. The enemy ship moves at about 4420kps. If it has EM sensors, but they are crap. It seems to be on patrol more then anything and it just stumbles across my units.
I presume that you have a larger res1 active on your scout. You'd need at least 7hs with your tech to track a 30k/kps missile for 30seconds. For 50seconds it needs to be at least 11hs.
The scout actualy has no active scanners (I dont want it to have a signature, its thermally shielded up the arse as well, less then 75% thermal signature). It has a GIANT passive thermal scanner unit that weighs 1,000 tons. That passive scanner detected the enemy ship at 08:05 March 18. To help calculate the distance the enemy thermal contact is 1440. Its a rather out of date passive sensor, I could make a better one at this point.
Take a look at what the volume of fire would be if you replaced to turrets all together with roughly the same mass of 10cm railguns (with the support powerplants)
Don't those only track at the speed of your ship? Or only a measly 2260kps for me.
While the OPFOR appears to not have had a thermal suite that could see your signature at range, the response to your Actives coming up shows that they do have EM sensors. Thermal sensors are fairly myopic (tactically) by comparison to EM. It's a function of the differences between the signatures being generated.
Provided they actually have things that generate EM on. Its not hard to keep a ships EM signature down.
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Ah, that makes more sense now.
I am going to bump up the tracking speed of the fire control system and the turret tracking speed to 12k/kps (I think I have tech to push it higher then that now as well). But I have to increase the range of the point defense fire control because there was not enough time for the weapons to fire even with how long I was able to track the missiles. Which seemed like a long time.
Not quite correct. This part is a little counter intuitive. The actual "tracking" is done by the active sensor not the fire control. The BFC only has to be able to see the target at the range you wish to fire.
Yea, but it did give me some interesting information. I did a "commanders diary" as a fun project during this engagement (the engagement is not finished, but the diary is, the commander is dead). I turned on the active scanners at 12:42 on the 18th of March. From there it was not until 14:43 that it realized my ships were scanning it when it turned around and put distance between it and my ships. The enemy ship moves at about 4420kps. If it has EM sensors, but they are crap. It seems to be on patrol more then anything and it just stumbles across my units.
Rest assured, if it reacted the game cycle after you activated your sensors it has a EM passive sensor. They don't have to be vary large to see active scan signatures over 20k.
The scout actually has no active scanners (I dont want it to have a signature, its thermally shielded up the arse as well, less then 75% thermal signature). It has a GIANT passive thermal scanner unit that weighs 1,000 tons. That passive scanner detected the enemy ship at 08:05 March 18. To help calculate the distance the enemy thermal contact is 1440. Its a rather out of date passive sensor, I could make a better one at this point.
That thermal sig and the speed you posted with it earlier indicates a rather large ship.
Don't those only track at the speed of your ship? Or only a measly 2260kps for me.
Or your researched tracking speed, whichever is greater. This is where that missile bonus tracking tech really helps. The hit penalty is the simple division of your tracking speed vs the target speed, provided of course the target is faster than your track. The bonus is directly subtracted from the penalty. Now the real benefit of the railgun over gauss turrets with few shots kicks in. For the a little fewer hull spaces than a turret gauss cannon you have 2 10cm railguns, with supporting powerplant, and 8 shots vs 2. The volume of fire averages to about twice as many missile intercepts as the GC turret.
Provided they actually have things that generate EM on. Its not hard to keep a ships EM signature down.
Right up until you activate your active sensors. They are a huge beacon that says here I am. That's not a bad thing as long as you're prepared.
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Not quite correct. This part is a little counter intuitive. The actual "tracking" is done by the active sensor not the fire control. The BFC only has to be able to see the target at the range you wish to fire.
That is counter intuitive. I would not have figured that out.
Rest assured, if it reacted the game cycle after you activated your sensors it has a EM passive sensor. They don't have to be vary large to see active scan signatures over 20k.
I was using half hour time increments by this point. Unless a cycle is something different.
That thermal sig and the speed you posted with it earlier indicates a rather large ship.
16,900 ton ship. I wonder how many missiles the thing has.
Or your researched tracking speed, whichever is greater. This is where that missile bonus tracking tech really helps. The hit penalty is the simple division of your tracking speed vs the target speed, provided of course the target is faster than your track. The bonus is directly subtracted from the penalty. Now the real benefit of the railgun over gauss turrets with few shots kicks in. For the a little fewer hull spaces than a turret gauss cannon you have 2 10cm railguns, with supporting powerplant, and 8 shots vs 2. The volume of fire averages to about twice as many missile intercepts as the GC turret.
So then what good are turrets if spinal mount weapons track just as well? Also, is the railguns rate of fire not fixxed while you can upgrade the gauss cannon rate of fire?
*EDIT*
Nevermind, I got it. The weapons will take either the ship speed as its tracking speed or the fire control systems tracking speed, whichever is greater. BUT, from my understanding (of the wiki) it reverts to the best tracking speed available to the empires scanners (in my case 3k/kms) NOT what scanner it may be attached to. So if I attach it to a fire control that tracks at 6k/kms (2x from base of 3k/kms) the weapon will only be working at the 3k/kmps which is available to the empire. Turrets allow you to break that number and go above the base rate available to your empire.
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You've got most of it. The minimum cycle is 5 seconds.
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You've got most of it. The minimum cycle is 5 seconds.
Which means this thing did not detect the active sensors for a long time, or at least did not react to it.