Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => Bureau of Ship Design => Topic started by: Jonathan.Joestar on January 11, 2017, 11:13:57 AM
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As a result, I based my designs on the sharing of tasks, to limit the tonnage to the maximum, for the moment, it is a rapid intervention force and patrol. For now, I can't build bigger vessels without it being ineffective and a loss of money. and i forget its my 2nd generation of warship frigate , i can easily beat the precursors with this designs at least those I met
-1 frigate leader
Apache Mk-2 class Frigate Leader 15 000 tons 406 Crew 4180. 2 BP TCS 300 TH 444 EM 0
6166 km/s JR 5-100 Armour 8-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 280/280/0/0 Damage Control Rating 34 PPV 0
Maint Life 4. 55 Years MSP 4267 AFR 73% IFR 1% 1YR 335 5YR 5021 Max Repair 1850 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 23 months Spare Berths 0
FL J15200(5-100) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15200 tons Distance 100k km Squadron Size 5
B-ME 1850 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1) Power 1850 Fuel Use 93. 1% Signature 444 Exp 18%
Fuel Capacity 3 700 000 Litres Range 47. 7 billion km (89 days at full power)
F Thermal Sensor TH20-280 (70%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
F EM Detection Sensor EM20-280 (70%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
-2 AM Frigate (AM = Anti-Missile)
Achilles Mk-2 class AM Frigate 15 000 tons 389 Crew 5330. 2 BP TCS 300 TH 444 EM 0
6166 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 48 PPV 25. 2
Maint Life 7. 91 Years MSP 8439 AFR 47% IFR 0. 7% 1YR 239 5YR 3587 Max Repair 1850 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months Spare Berths 0
B-ME 1850 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1) Power 1850 Fuel Use 93. 1% Signature 444 Exp 18%
Fuel Capacity 4 650 000 Litres Range 59. 9 billion km (112 days at full power)
AM Mk-2 Single MW Gauss Cannon R5-100 Turret (3x5) Range 50 000km TS: 32000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
AMF Mk-2 Fire Control S03 60-32000 H50 (3) Max Range: 120 000 km TS: 32000 km/s 92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17
AMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR29-R1 (50%) (1) GPS 210 Range 29. 4m km MCR 3. 2m km Resolution 1
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
AND I prefer Gauss canon for RP raisons and its much effective than laser , they don't need energy and with the good settings and automated fire , they intercept any missile in range without my help
-2 LM Frigate (LM = Launch-Missile Frigate)
Pegasus Mk-2 class LM Frigate 15 000 tons 403 Crew 4220. 2 BP TCS 300 TH 444 EM 0
6166 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 52 PPV 15
Maint Life 8. 64 Years MSP 7472 AFR 42% IFR 0. 6% 1YR 179 5YR 2686 Max Repair 1850 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months Spare Berths 1
Magazine 297
B-ME 1850 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1) Power 1850 Fuel Use 93. 1% Signature 444 Exp 18%
Fuel Capacity 4 350 000 Litres Range 56. 1 billion km (105 days at full power)
LM Mk-2 Size 5 Missile Launcher (3) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 25
LMF Mk-2 Missile Fire Control FC220-R100 (50%) (3) Range 220. 5m km Resolution 100
Size 5 Anti-ship Missile Cobra Mk-2 (59) Speed: 32 000 km/s End: 101. 8m Range: 195. 6m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 341/204/102
LMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR205-R100 (50%) (1) GPS 14700 Range 205. 8m km Resolution 100
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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Apache; Can't defend itself.
Achilles; More guns of a smaller size may benefit you more for this design. Might also want to add some AMMs in either reduced size or box launchers.
Pegasus; May be better to have more launchers, but reduced size.
Please put your future designs in code brackets [code ] [/code ] (no spaces in the []) as it makes things easier to see.
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I'm a bit confused where all your tonnage is going. The Pegasus is a 15,000 ton ship with 2500 tons of engine and maybe 1500 tons of armament (undergunned and underengined compared to most designs), 2600 tons of engineering spaces,and another 2000 tons of fuel. At your tech level the thick armor shouldn't be prohibitive. Are you using size 1/10HTK magazines or something?
For reference, a common 9000-ton Precursor ship in my games mounts 7 size-4 launchers with deeper magazines.
Also, it may help you control maintenance costs if you make an engine without thermal signature reduction. TH reduction is valuable in scout ships, but it balloons the costs of engines to insane levels - they become enormous maintenance hogs.
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Well that's mean , i need to rewrite my designs and for the Apache ,and even if i add defence to the ship and kip it at 15k t , he can't really effectivly defend him self , he stay always with the task group , even if the task group need to split , i left one Achilles to defend it , so more small turret/guns. Actually , 4 sized missile its the much effective smaller anti-ship missile , i take advice from the forum and for a anti-ship missile at least 3-5 sized missile, that's what i read. I don't use AMM for RP raisons and to be more effective, i dedicate my ordonance factories to build more anti-ship missile.
And , euh... i don't really know what to do , (undergunned , yes i agree) but underengined , 50 sized engine for better speed , nah? Does a 30 or 40 sized missile is more effective ?
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As posted above your designs have way too small an actual mission package.
Unless for some reason they need to operate ridiculously far out, there is really no reason why the range, but more importantly maintenance life and deployment time need be so large. I find it unlikely these ships will ever need to be on station for 3 years at a time and an 8 year maintenance life is pretty high. You will probably be updating these ships before they even need overhaul. If additional fuel and MSP are needed, they can always be placed on a fleet support.
Additionally you have almost as much tonnage in fuel as in engines. Rejigging to use more engines and tweaking your power ratios could give you the same range and speed for less tonnage i am sure.
The missile launch frigate is the worst offender. Firing 3 missiles at a time it is unlikely to penetrate missile defences.
My advice would be to free up space on your leader and then mount your active sensors on that. You can put a small backup on your other ships for redundancy. Then use that space on your other ships to add more weapon systems. I would recommend dropping your launchers down to using 50 or 25% size reduction to help pierce PD fire, however if the enemy has long range AMMs then this could be counter productive due to the reduced rate of sustained fire. You should really be aiming for a lot more launchers though.
I dont mean this as flame in any way, just trying to help you learn.
-Graham
Edit- You said size 50 engine, are you implying you don't already have a size 50 engine? on a 15000t ship 2500t of engine is still pretty small.
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Thanks that's very good explained, as soon as my game is fixed , i'm gonna update my designs , and yes 50 HS = 2500t , the biggest size that a engine could have , i think. And as the game start i always use 50 sized engine for both commercial and military ships.
EDIT : So do i need to split my engine ? like 2 of 25 sized engine ?
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Look at it this way, you should be aiming for ~33% of the ship's tonnage as engine. For 15k tons, that is 5000 tons of engine (2 50HS engines). Not only are they more efficient, being bigger, but you can scale down the power modifier to increase efficiency more without impacting speed as much. And what I meant for reduced size launchers is scaling the launcher size, not the missile size. You see the box with the 25% reduction, 33% reduction, etc? That is what I mean. Sure they may fire slower, but having a larger initial punch pays out quicker in engagements.
A spot where you seem to be bleeding tonnage is in Sensors and Fire Control. Missile engagement should be around 50m km to 100m km. When you adjust missiles in the future to be around that range, you can see better effectiveness in the missiles and more space saved by matching the sensors and fire control to that range. Also, taking another look, the Apache has way too large of passive sensors. Reduce their size by half or simply remove one of them.
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Thank you guys ! and sorry for taking your time ! i feel know with the designs i draw in my head , my empire gonna be invincible =D
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Here is the new designs :
Achilles Mk-2.5 class AM Frigate 15 000 tons 491 Crew 10505.2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 0
10000 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 45 PPV 11
Maint Life 7.31 Years MSP 11161 AFR 70% IFR 1% 1YR 366 5YR 5493 Max Repair 750 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 16 months Spare Berths 1
ME 1500 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2) Power 1500 Fuel Use 55.11% Signature 1500 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2 250 000 Litres Range 49.0 billion km (56 days at full power)
MW Mk-2.5 Gauss Cannon R5-17 (11x5) Range 50 000km TS: 10000 km/s Accuracy Modifier 17% RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
AMF Mk-2.5 Fire Control S04 96-32000 H50 (11) Max Range: 192 000 km TS: 32000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Apache Mk-2.5 class Frigate Leader 15 000 tons 413 Crew 3629.2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 0
10000 km/s JR 5-100 Armour 8-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 280/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 35 PPV 0
Maint Life 2.56 Years MSP 2344 AFR 116% IFR 1.6% 1YR 500 5YR 7497 Max Repair 750 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Spare Berths 1
FL J15200(5-100) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15200 tons Distance 100k km Squadron Size 5
ME 1500 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2) Power 1500 Fuel Use 55.11% Signature 1500 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2 000 000 Litres Range 43.5 billion km (50 days at full power)
LMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR205-R100 (50%) (1) GPS 14700 Range 205.8m km Resolution 100
AMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR29-R1 (50%) (1) GPS 210 Range 29.4m km MCR 3.2m km Resolution 1
F Thermal Sensor TH20-280 (70%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Pegasus Mk-2.5 class LM Frigate 15 000 tons 340 Crew 3468.2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 0
10000 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 41 PPV 16.5
Maint Life 4.32 Years MSP 3035 AFR 85% IFR 1.2% 1YR 262 5YR 3931 Max Repair 750 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 16 months Spare Berths 1
Magazine 802
ME 1500 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2) Power 1500 Fuel Use 55.11% Signature 1500 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2 000 000 Litres Range 43.5 billion km (50 days at full power)
LM Mk-2.5 Size 5 Missile Launcher (33% Reduction) (10) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 430
LMF Mk-2.5 Missile Fire Control FC117-R100 (50%) (10) Range 117.6m km Resolution 100
Size 4.92 Anti-ship Missile Cobra Mk-2.5 (160) Speed: 32 500 km/s End: 54.8m Range: 106.9m km WH: 10 Size: 4.92 TH: 390/234/117
ECCM-3 (2) Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
for the missile , i'm gonna upgrade it later
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First off the AM frigate:
Looks a lot better. First thing i see though, your fire controls have a max range of 4x that of your gauss guns. Going a little over for the accuracy buff can be worth it but not by 4x i don't think. Also they have a tracking speed of 32,000 km/s while your turrets only track at 10,000 km/s. I don't know if this is an error since your turrets used to track at 32k km/s. Did you reduce the gearing to fit more in?
Hit chance iirc a while back scales linearly, so against a 30k km/s missile, a 10k km/s tracking turret has 1/3 the chance to hit of a 30k km/s tracking turret. Maintenance life is still a bit on the high side IMO.
Frigate leader:
One thing i notice is the 12 month deployment time as opposed to the 16 on the others. I'm guessing you were trying to squeeze an extra couple HS. However i would recommend bumping that up level while reducing the fuel slightly in exchange. Fuel can be shared among the ships and resupplied by tankers, while cutting deployment time means that the extra 4 months on the other ships is basically useless as they cannot operate with ought the leader.
To save HS i would wonder if the missile detection sensor can still be further reduced. If its detecting missiles at about 3m km Since you are not using AMMs that extra detection range is not really useful for much that i can think of.
Missile launcher:
For 15kt 10 size 5 launchers is definitely still on the small side, though i'm still not entirely sure on your tonnages. Out of interest what are the percentages by mass of the major components?
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AM Frigate :
that was a fail x)
Frigate Leader:
You actually see everything and how i think oO i'm gonna try to fix that
LM Frigate :
5000t of engine 2x50HSengine (1 = 1500 EP) , MFC , Missile launcher , ECCM , Magazines : 2625t , 2 fuel Storage - Very large : 2000t , what left is for engineering spaces , damage control crew quarters etc....
EDIT : here is the fixed versions :
Achilles Mk-2.5 class AM Frigate 15 000 tons 447 Crew 7746.2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 0
10000 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 45 PPV 15.4
Maint Life 7.1 Years MSP 8230 AFR 70% IFR 1% 1YR 286 5YR 4290 Max Repair 750 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 16 months Spare Berths 1
ME 1500 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2) Power 1500 Fuel Use 55.11% Signature 1500 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 2 700 000 Litres Range 58.8 billion km (68 days at full power)
Single MW Mk-2.5 Gauss Cannon R5-17 Turret (11x5) Range 50 000km TS: 32000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
AMF Mk-2.5 Fire Control S03 60-32000 H50 (11) Max Range: 120 000 km TS: 32000 km/s 92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I don't know why but the range after i add it of the Fire controls UP without reason... i actually verified it has the good range when i created it
I was wrong all the time it was the "50% Accuracy at Range: 60 000 km" --'
Apache Mk-2.5 class Frigate Leader 15 000 tons 413 Crew 3699.2 BP TCS 300 TH 3000 EM 0
10000 km/s JR 5-100 Armour 8-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 280/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 35 PPV 0
Maint Life 2.69 Years MSP 2389 AFR 116% IFR 1.6% 1YR 472 5YR 7084 Max Repair 750 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 16 months Spare Berths 3
FL J15200(5-100) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15200 tons Distance 100k km Squadron Size 5
ME 1500 EP Internal Fusion Drive (2) Power 1500 Fuel Use 55.11% Signature 1500 Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 1 900 000 Litres Range 41.4 billion km (47 days at full power)
LMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR205-R100 (50%) (1) GPS 14700 Range 205.8m km Resolution 100
AMF Mk-2 Active Search Sensor MR29-R1 (50%) (1) GPS 210 Range 29.4m km MCR 3.2m km Resolution 1
F Thermal Sensor TH20-280 (70%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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I do not want to pollute the forum with topics everywhere but I want to remain active in the community and I also wanted to share a new powerful design , a Flagship/Dreadnought/Command Ship 65k t
Warlord class Dreadnought 65 000 tons 1830 Crew 18846 BP TCS 1300 TH 15000 EM 0
11538 km/s Armour 25-144 Shields 0-0 Sensors 280/280/0/0 Damage Control Rating 120 PPV 150
Maint Life 3.17 Years MSP 16308 AFR 375% IFR 5.2% 1YR 2438 5YR 36576 Max Repair 1500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Flight Crew Berths 0
Flag Bridge Hangar Deck Capacity 10000 tons Magazine 1254 Cryogenic Berths 1000
BS 3000 EP Magnetic Fusion Drive (5) Power 3000 Fuel Use 44.62% Signature 3000 Exp 24%
Fuel Capacity 8 250 000 Litres Range 51.2 billion km (51 days at full power)
BS Size 5 Missile Launcher (30) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 25
BS Missile Fire Control FC201-R100 (30%) (15) Range 201.6m km Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH20-280 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
EM Detection Sensor EM20-280 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
Strike Group
5x U-34 Bomber Speed: 15015 km/s Size: 9.99
15x U-33 Fighter Speed: 30000 km/s Size: 10
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
I wanted ideas and critics before i start a new line production of this design.
I know he can't defend himself but he is followed by 3 Anti-Missile Frigate :
Defender class Anti-Missile Frigate 15 000 tons 409 Crew 9401.7 BP TCS 300 TH 4375 EM 0
14583 km/s Armour 10-54 Shields 0-0 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 47 PPV 15
Maint Life 3.55 Years MSP 6659 AFR 105% IFR 1.5% 1YR 814 5YR 12204 Max Repair 1093.75 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Spare Berths 1
ME 2187.5 EP Magnetic Fusion Drive (2) Power 2187.5 Fuel Use 64.23% Signature 2187.5 Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 000 Litres Range 93.4 billion km (74 days at full power)
AM Single MW-B Gauss Cannon R5-10 Turret (15x5) Range 50 000km TS: 25000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
AM Fire Control S02 60-25000 H40 (15) Max Range: 120 000 km TS: 25000 km/s 92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
EDIT : The only problem I have is how to jump this monster throught a JP, but without the JGs, I do not want to facilitate the enemy access to my systems.
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Unfortunately it has some killer flaws. The biggest are that it lacks flight crew berths for the fighters, and it has no active sensor to spot enemies. Less important, but still very serious is that it only has enough magazine space for about 250 size 5 missiles. 250 missiles will go really, really fast between 30 standard launchers and bombers. Of lesser concern would be the high number of fire controls - you probably won't ever need 15 fire controls for 30 launchers. I recommend 5 or 6 at most.
I estimate at least 15,000 tons of your ship is devoted to armor, which is nice if you're being pounded with warheads but once you shoot your bolt you're defenseless against a single FAC with an energy weapon.
I would suggest going down to 15 armor layers, removing 10 of your fire controls, and using the tonnage gained on an active sensor (preferably 2 for redundancy on such a large warship) and magazines.
Your escort frigates also need active sensors for spotting missiles.
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I forget the sensors f-u-c-k x) well here is the fixed version : but before what do you mean by crew berths ? where can i add more of this ? And for the fighter i use gauss canon , because my empire is highly specialized in missile and kinetic weapon , i have new designs of fighters with as main weapon meson canon but my empire has more than 80 scientist specialized in energy weapon but none of them have a higher bonus than 10% So I am very technologically behind in this field and my weapons remain very crappy compared to what I demand against a powerful enemy, for the moment they will only serve against a low-tech NPR at 9 jump of Sol but they are not really dangerous but against an NPR with an equivalent technological level , they gonna fall like mosquitoes
Warlord class Dreadnought 65 000 tons 1965 Crew 20634 BP TCS 1300 TH 15000 EM 0
11538 km/s Armour 15-144 Shields 0-0 Sensors 280/280/0/0 Damage Control Rating 132 PPV 150
Maint Life 3.74 Years MSP 20237 AFR 331% IFR 4.6% 1YR 2261 5YR 33919 Max Repair 1920 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months Flight Crew Berths 0
Flag Bridge Hangar Deck Capacity 10000 tons Magazine 1806 Cryogenic Berths 1000
BS 3000 EP Magnetic Fusion Drive (5) Power 3000 Fuel Use 44.62% Signature 3000 Exp 24%
Fuel Capacity 8 250 000 Litres Range 51.2 billion km (51 days at full power)
BS Size 5 Missile Launcher (30) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 25
BS Missile Fire Control FC201-R100 (30%) (5) Range 201.6m km Resolution 100
BS Active Search Sensor MR134-R1 (30%) (1) GPS 960 Range 134.4m km MCR 14.6m km Resolution 1
BS Active Search Sensor MR1344-R100 (30%) (1) GPS 96000 Range 1 344.0m km Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH20-280 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
EM Detection Sensor EM20-280 (40%) (1) Sensitivity 280 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 280m km
Strike Group
5x U-34 Bomber Speed: 15015 km/s Size: 9.99
15x U-33 Fighter Speed: 30000 km/s Size: 10
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
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there is a check mark for keep excess crew capacity in the top right, from there crew modules can be added.
Also why the cryo births? those are meant for picking up escape pods. better suited for a dedicated and disposable hospital ship
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I don't have an issue with the large number of fire controls; expensive to build but it's one method of confounding point defence and may save a fortune in ordnance if you need it. It may be excessive against most targets you're likely to face and there are more elegant methods of achieving it, but the principle is sound.
For beam PD, something similar applies. You go out of your way to defend against many small missile salvos... but the details are worth questioning. Your impressive Gauss tech doesn't do you much good if you spend so much money on expensive fire controls. On a fast ship like the Defender, 10cm railguns would get the job done as efficiently, for less resources, and with better firepower in a brawl if that becomes an issue.
Armour seems excessive, I'd rather invest more in active defences.
Last but not least, your propulsion plants are too stressed, which is imo the easiest way to ruin a design.
If I understand it correctly, the Defender uses 100HS of fuel and 70HS of engines.
3 maximum size engines with power multiplier of 1.3 and 20HS fuel fits into the same space. You get better range and speed on 1/5 of the fuel use.
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Actually , i can't make all of your suggestion every guy has a game style and its hard really hard to find the one that i need. i'm gonna research high enough the railguns (For RP reasons and because i love kinetic weapons ^^)