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Title: Gauss cannons
Post by: TheTrooperm13 on September 30, 2017, 04:44:00 AM

Hi everybody! I'm kinda new to aurora, and i'm trying to discover the best use for each weapon, but also what fits to my roleplaying. I researched gauss cannons, and remembering halo's MAC coilguns i hoped to do the same. Looking at the gauss cannons stats i saw that using it for an anti ship combat was nearly impossible and many people use it only for pd and fighter weapons. Still, is there any way to use it in anti ship system? Or, can you modify it's stats to make it so?

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: MarcAFK on September 30, 2017, 07:51:33 AM

Gauss cannons are very short range low damage very high rate of fire. They can be modified for lower accuracy and size to fit into fighters, or turrets.
Lasers are long range beam weapons with damage that drops off with range. But high damage at close range.
Railguns shoot four projectiles at once and their total damage is approximately one third higher than a laser of similar technology. They also drop off at range like lasers, and because the damage is spread over 4 projectiles they don't have the same individual punch, but they can make up for it with greater total damage.
Particle beams are a fixed damage weapon and therefore cause the same damage across their entire range. Although not quite a long-ranged as lasers, athey will out-damage lasers at maximum range.
Meson Cannon inflict only one point of damage and have half the range of an equivalent laser, but the damage ignores shields and armor.
The Plasma Carronade is a high damage, point blank range weapon, The calibers available are larger than those other beam weapons at a similar tech level so this is usually the weapon with the highest damage at close range. It cannot be turret mounted and is far from ideal as a point defence weapon.
The High Power Microwave is similar to the meson cannon, in that it causes only a single point of damage, has similar range, and goes through armour. However the HPM is affected by shields and does triple damage to them. Once the shields are down, the HPM damages ,sensors, fire control systems, ECM and ECCM. The HPM is designed to blind an enemy rather than destroy him.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: non sequitur on September 30, 2017, 08:25:38 AM

Quote from: TheTrooperm13 link=topic=9689. msg104380#msg104380 date=1506764640

Hi everybody! I'm kinda new to aurora, and i'm trying to discover the best use for each weapon, but also what fits to my roleplaying. I researched gauss cannons, and remembering halo's MAC coilguns i hoped to do the same. Looking at the gauss cannons stats i saw that using it for an anti ship combat was nearly impossible and many people use it only for pd and fighter weapons. Still, is there any way to use it in anti ship system? Or, can you modify it's stats to make it so?

As far as I know Gauss cannons can't be altered in any way in order to become MAC guns, but that doesn't mean you don't have options.

here is the thing about aurora: It really is up to you. there aren't any graphics to differentiate a gauss cannon from a laser cannon. So if you really want a MAC gun then I would recommend researching lasers and spinal lasers a bit then create a spinal laser component and rename it "MAC gun Mark. whatever" and then you have your very own Halo style weapon system. Endless customization means it really is up to you.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: TheTrooperm13 on September 30, 2017, 06:04:45 PM

Well yes i mean, i could but it wouldn't feel right to me to design a laser gun and call it coilgun. I agree with endless customization, and it's fantastic to call whetever you want the way you want, but i guess i'll end up using railguns or trying to use gauss cannons as anti ship weaponry. Somebody said that a coilgun would perform better than railguns into space, and if you think about it, mass drivers are essentially coilguns, and in aurora they have a freaking range. While i'll try to use my imagination, i guess that gauss cannons should be reworked, as in my opinion they are too undervalued. . . still thanks for the tips!

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: obsidian_green on September 30, 2017, 06:24:04 PM

Quote from: TheTrooperm13 on September 30, 2017, 06:04:45 PM

While i'll try to use my imagination, i guess that gauss cannons should be reworked, as in my opinion they are too undervalued. . . still thanks for the tips!

They don't fit the role in which you want to use them, but I wouldn't say they're undervalued---my warships are usually loaded with turreted Gauss cannons as point defense.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: TheTrooperm13 on October 01, 2017, 06:13:39 AM

I don't know, there are too many theories and uses in various sci fi games and films of coilguns, so being forced to use them only in PD roles is kinda of limiting a weapon's potential to me. There should be a more variety of uses for Gauss cannons. While still keeping a difference from railguns. How do you usually design your gauss defences by the way?

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: obsidian_green on October 01, 2017, 09:44:28 PM

I'm not sure if you mean system design or fire control setup. For system design, you want to anticipate what enemy missiles might be coming your way (especially if deciding to design systems immediately or tech-up some before designing) and build those turrets (you definitely want the turrets) accordingly---make sure your tracking speed is as good as you need and that it matches the TS of your fire controls. Remember that your combat doctrine is going to influence what you design. If you prefer fighters or field incredibly fast ships, you'd probably opt for railguns as your PD weapon of choice and never mind the turrets, which might also be the case if you go heavy on the magazines and prefer spitting AMMs at incoming missiles. I do both, but I'm stingy about when I "waste" AMMs---it takes really scary incoming for me to make PD assignments for my AMMs.

This is the FC setup (via the "combat assignments overview" screen) for the Gauss cannons on one of my older warships:

Code: [Select]

FC S02 R48k-TS25000 (Gauss Turret) #1 (Point Blank PD Mode 4):   No Target Assignment
Triple Gauss R4-100/TS25000 Turret #1 (Ready To Fire)

FC S02 R48k-TS25000 (Gauss Turret) #2 (Point Blank PD Mode 4):   No Target Assignment
Triple Gauss R4-100/TS25000 Turret #2 (Ready To Fire)

I set my Gauss turrets to final defensive fire, each with its own FC and include multiple ships that sport them in my task groups. I don't think the "Mode 4" helps anything since the turrets are set to final defensive fire (10km engagement), but I make it a habit to set the mode to match the range of the weapon unless I have a definite reason not to. Mode (range) would matter for, say. a laser turret set to area defense. You'll notice that TS for the weapons and FCs match, which is what you'd want unless you built with the intention of later upgrading one system to match the other.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Garfunkel on October 03, 2017, 07:11:44 PM

Quote from: TheTrooperm13 on September 30, 2017, 06:04:45 PM

Well yes i mean, i could but it wouldn't feel right to me to design a laser gun and call it coilgun. I agree with endless customization, and it's fantastic to call whetever you want the way you want, but i guess i'll end up using railguns or trying to use gauss cannons as anti ship weaponry. Somebody said that a coilgun would perform better than railguns into space, and if you think about it, mass drivers are essentially coilguns, and in aurora they have a freaking range. While i'll try to use my imagination, i guess that gauss cannons should be reworked, as in my opinion they are too undervalued. . . still thanks for the tips!

The range is because of light speed limitation combined with the 5 second pulse. Otherwise the game would need to track each projectile that kinetic weapons pump out. Now they are "magic" in that they just pop from attacker to the defender inside the 5 second pulse as long as they are close enough.

Gauss guns are already quite powerful. What you want is to use railguns, they will fit the role you want. Don't get hung up on the terms too much.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Michael Sandy on October 05, 2017, 04:06:13 AM

Miniaturized gauss cannons are also the smallest effective weapon except for box launchers. So they can make an effective fighter interceptor weapon.

So you can build a very small fighter that can still kill enemy fighters. Or perhaps build a very fast fighter that can pursue enemy missile fighters after they have launched, and kill them before they can return to their carrier and reload.

And if you don't mind being completely bored, you can use gauss fighters to take out enemy freighters.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: MarcAFK on October 05, 2017, 06:44:03 AM

Miniaturized gauss cannons also allow you to take greater advantage of grade bonus.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: FrederickAlexander on October 05, 2017, 11:57:51 AM

Quote from: Michael Sandy on October 05, 2017, 04:06:13 AM

Miniaturized gauss cannons are also the smallest effective weapon except for box launchers. So they can make an effective fighter interceptor weapon.

So you can build a very small fighter that can still kill enemy fighters. Or perhaps build a very fast fighter that can pursue enemy missile fighters after they have launched, and kill them before they can return to their carrier and reload.

And if you don't mind being completely bored, you can use gauss fighters to take out enemy freighters.

Can Confirm, All scenarios described I have done before.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Michael Sandy on October 05, 2017, 10:04:42 PM

So, how boring is it waiting for a 250 ton gauss fighter to nibble a 100kton freighter to death? LOL.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: obsidian_green on October 05, 2017, 10:28:41 PM

At what point/tech/grade bonus do miniaturized Gauss cannons usually become effective? I went Gauss on my first fighter design, but switched to a single railgun because there were so many misses with reduced-size Gauss.

This was that first fighter design:

Code: [Select]

C/F-3 Arafura class Interceptor    297 tons     3 Crew     150.9 BP      TCS 5.94  TH 150  EM 0
25252 km/s     Armour 1-3     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 59%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 16    5YR 241    Max Repair 75 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 1    

150-F EP(x3) Magnetic Fusion Drive (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 458.3%    Signature 150    Exp 30%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 0.7 billion km   (7 hours at full power)

Gauss Cannon R4-S1.5-AC25 (2x4)    Range 40 000km     TS: 25252 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 25%     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
FC S0.5 R48k-TS25000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 96 000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Detros on October 06, 2017, 02:29:23 AM

Quote from: obsidian_green on October 05, 2017, 10:28:41 PM

At what point/tech/grade bonus do miniaturized Gauss cannons usually become effective?

I have upgraded GC to 2 shots per interval, made a PD ship design and build two of them as the homeguard. At 3 shots per interval I have prepared an updated version and build few more of them. By the time I got to 4 shots per interval those ships gained decent rank so for version IIb which just got updated GC I have gone for size 5 ones. Price for update from version I was too high so those two original ones stayed old. I am now at 5 shots per interval, using still size 5 GCs and updating both version I and IIb to III.

Off-Topic: show

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Iranon on October 06, 2017, 02:54:38 AM

Ton for ton, you probably need Gauss RoF 6 to be competitive. Railguns get more than 1 shot per HS out of the box, crew grade bonuses help miniaturised weapons but won't overcome a large base difference.

Before that tech level, I consider Gauss for fighters mostly when I don't care about efficiency, but for the ability to do something at point blank range for the smallest possible space investment.
E.g. I want the ability to finish off unarmed targets/crippled ships/spent missile ships, but don't want to increase my overall visibility by pairing a 400t+ railgun fighter with my 150t missile fighters.
That's very niche-y though and rarely makes a practical difference.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Barkhorn on October 06, 2017, 10:55:31 AM

Against missiles and when mounted on a slow ship, GC can outperform railguns all the way down to RoF 3 since they can be mounted in turrets.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: obsidian_green on October 06, 2017, 06:59:21 PM

Quote from: Barkhorn on October 06, 2017, 10:55:31 AM

Against missiles and when mounted on a slow ship, GC can outperform railguns all the way down to RoF 3 since they can be mounted in turrets.

I'm a Gauss cannon turret fiend already. My question (as opposed to the OP's) was about when reduced-size Gauss makes the most sense on fighters. I went dual, 25% accuracy Gauss on my very first fighter design, but was scared over to a single railgun by the number of misses in the event updates. I miss the lower tonnage, but look forward to actually hitting targets.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Michael Sandy on October 09, 2017, 12:50:47 PM

As far as I can tell, accuracy goes does linearly with size, meaning that you get the same number of hits with 12 1/12 size gauss cannon as you do with one full size. Which means you can put 1/12 sized quad turrets on a slow fighter.

Going with the reduced size also reduces the research cost, making it far more palatable to upgrade your turret designs every time you get a new gauss tech.

There are a lot of systems I have making the really big versions of, (like sensors), because the cumulative cost can end up more than simply researching the next tech advance in the tree.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Father Tim on October 09, 2017, 02:46:47 PM

Gauss cannon base hit chance IS linear to size. Steve has said that -- for example -- although 1/6 size Gauss Cannons claim to have a 17% base hit chance in the description, it's actually 16.666...%

This means that absent any other modifiers, six size 1 Gauss Cannons will average the same number of hits as one size 6 Gauss Cannon. Since most bonuses and penalties are multiplicative, these averages will remain constant in those cases.

Crew Rating, on the other hand, is NOT. Highly skilled Fighter pilots/crew will ADD their flat bonus to hit chances, resulting in (for example) hit chance multipliers of 105% for one size 6 Gauss Cannon and 21.666...% * 6 for six size 1 Gauss Cannons (equivalent to one shot at 131%).

Therefore, with Conscript crews you want the largest size GC that you can fit, whereas with trained and/or experienced crews, the smallest. Multiple smaller GC also have advantages in the 'at least X hits' category, redundancy, and -as noted by Michael Sandy - reseaerch/Tech costs. They suffer in damage absorption (you have watch total HTK closely) and potential overkill (for example, when you are trying to cripple engines prior to boarding enemy vessels).

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Iranon on October 09, 2017, 05:33:58 PM

Also: turrets with more barrels need proportionally less overhead in turret gear for a given tracking speed... but a full-size quad may be more firepower than we want per fire control.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: Michael Sandy on October 09, 2017, 05:54:12 PM

There IS a scenario where fullsized Gauss may have an advantage.

If you have PD with a 100% intercept vs known enemy missiles, then you know exactly how much PD you need to completely defeat a volley.

If you have 10 times as many PD with a 10% intercept, the distribution may be such that sometimes you will actually intercept far fewer missiles.

But this is kind of rare, since you are more likely to have a 95%, allowing for a miss distribution, or 105%, meaning wasted accuracy.

Title: Re: Gauss cannons
Post by: FrederickAlexander on October 10, 2017, 08:53:37 AM

Quote from: Michael Sandy on October 05, 2017, 10:04:42 PM

So, how boring is it waiting for a 250 ton gauss fighter to nibble a 100kton freighter to death? LOL.

I never send a single fighter and perfer to send them out in squadrons... that being said, it still takes a long time to bring down a freighter half that size.

Aurora 4x

New Players => The Academy => Topic started by: TheTrooperm13 on September 30, 2017, 04:44:00 AM