Aurora 4x

Off Topic => Game/Book Reviews => Topic started by: ardem on December 10, 2010, 09:24:46 PM

Title: Games like Aurora
Post by: ardem on December 10, 2010, 09:24:46 PM
I interested to know if there are any other games out there with about the same difficulty as Aurora but might be for other settings.

I know of
- Dwarf Fortress, but the ascii nature for me is of putting.
- War in the Pacific, is another complex game and not to bad
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Thyrann on March 20, 2014, 04:57:02 AM
Would like to about other games too.  It looks like Aurora is one of its kind, not suprisingly i suppose. 

Aurora is a great game for those who enjoy MASSIVE detail and complexity in games.  And probably there is not much of us.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Paul M on March 20, 2014, 07:08:33 AM
Instead of War in the Pacific (as it is older than dust) I'd suggest War in the Pacific, Admiral's Edition.
On the same vein is Gary Grigsby's War in the East and soon to come "War in the West"

Both of the above games I have to limit my play time to holidays as otherwise I get sucked into the "just another turn syndrome" quite baddly.

War in the East suffers from a few things.  Logisitics are off since fuel is never critical for the Wehrmacht and it was a driving reason for their actions from 42 onwards.  Also there is a few odd things that happen with the German side later on such as the removal of the 6th Army in early 43 that annoy people.  On the Russian side some of the gamey stuff the German is able to accomplish is a tad annoying as well.  As a Grognard I tend to sit in the middle, there are things which could be better but on the other hand it is pretty good simulation of the eastern front.

War in the Pacific, AE I believe corrected the situation that made it a WW1 Artillary Generals wet dream, but I still find the ground combat mystifying.  Exactly how did my infantry regiment supported by an AT regiment get overrun by an unsported japanese tank battalion?  It does require a great deal of management though, supply lines have to be established and so forth.  I have to admit I learned a lot playing the game, the pacific theatre was never one of my favorites.

Hearts of Iron X is also a similiar sort of game, depending on which country you are playing, as much as I liked some changes in III I never played it as much as II, and I am looking forward to see what gets done in IV.  Victoria and Victoria 2 are as well.  I find the economics in Victoria X baffling.  I managed to destroy the prussian economy in Victoria and the US economy in the Victoria 2 demo neither action should be possible but are relatively easy to do.  I found Rome though not very interesting, but largely because it was totally divorsed from reality.  I had spartan armies ramapaging around in Gaul, something that is just impossible on just about every level concievable.

There doesn't seem to be many publishers offering complex games at the moment.  I keep my eyes on Matix Games, and Paradox since they are the ones I know of.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: MarcAFK on March 20, 2014, 07:40:35 AM
What about AI war?
It's not really like Aurora at all but has a hideous difficulty, I've only ever played the demo and never got far, basically the better you do against the AI the more stuff it will send at you.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Erik Luken on March 20, 2014, 07:55:21 AM
I'd also keep an eye on Shrapnel Games.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: CharonJr on March 20, 2014, 11:04:11 AM
Dominions 4 might be worth a look as well due to its pretender design, army composition/tactics (including use of magic), magic research and magic item construction.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Defacto on October 23, 2014, 04:34:04 PM
Jane's Fleet Command is pretty much Aurora, but real time and set at sea in the late 1900's.
Even the map interface is really similar.  FC does have prettier graphics though (despite being from 1999).
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: AcidWeb on October 25, 2014, 01:45:07 AM
Distant Worlds: Universe
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: ardem on October 26, 2014, 10:05:11 PM
Adding to this list of complex games tat come across since I first added this post.

Crusader Kings II, this is a complex game with a lot of options and first 7 games normally ends for you quite quickly.
HOI 3 with the Black Ice mod - It got a fair bit of complexity and micromanagement however it is simplistic compared to WITP, however it allows bigger scope and allows more detail outside historic outcomes.

Played Dominion 4 it is a nice game but the combat is much like risk, higher tech and higher forces always win, the complexity like risk is where you put your troops, the terrible part of this game is there lack of  very few terrain chokepoints, ever the sea you get attacked by sea people. I would not add this under complex game section but, there is complexity it in simplicity (like chess)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Canek on October 28, 2014, 08:27:51 PM
There is one.

Now, when I say that I mean not only in complexity, but in theme.  A true 4x space conquest galore.  It is Space Empires, in two flavors: Space Empires V with Kwok's balance mod, or Space empires IV with any of its great mods.  There is simply not another game that comes closer to Aurora in terms of depth and complexity, even if Aurora is still more complex.  As stated in the first post, perhaps the only other reasonable comparison would be Dwarf Fortress.

I wish someone could prove me wrong showing me another complex great Space 4x.  .  .

Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: IanD on October 07, 2015, 05:02:44 AM
Distant Worlds: Universe

Anybody played it? It looks vast!

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/515/details/Distant.Worlds.-.Universe
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: nadia911 on October 08, 2015, 09:19:28 AM
Pride of Nations by AGEOD /Matrix

Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Canek on October 08, 2015, 04:48:49 PM
Quote from: IanD link=topic=3104. msg81641#msg81641 date=1444212164
Anybody played it? It looks vast!

hxxp: www. matrixgames. com/products/515/details/Distant. Worlds. -. Universe

I actually bought & tried this after seeing it in this post.  It is very good, but there's a catch, as usual. 

The thing is, unlike Aurora, I tend to get to an optimal ship design for every spec for every tech evel, and it looks the same regardless race or time playing.  Also, as you can automate most of the game, battles and the such feel RTSish instead of the almost RPG feeling of Aurora, even at full manual control.

I suposse it will give you good entertaining hours, but you'll get back here eventually =D
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Erik Luken on October 08, 2015, 04:54:45 PM
I suposse it will give you good entertaining hours, but you'll get back here eventually =D

We all do. Aurora is like a black hole, sucking us into its accretion disk.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Sematary on October 08, 2015, 04:58:11 PM
Pride of Nations by AGEOD /Matrix
I can't stand playing anything by AGEOD. As a huge fan of both board games, history, and complex hard games I feel like I should love the stuff they publish but it just feels painful trying to play their stuff.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: sloanjh on October 08, 2015, 08:59:38 PM
I like American Civil War (both I && II).  That being said, it takes me forever to do a turn and I often abandon the game - if I lose my attention for a few weeks it's too hard to pick it back up.

I think most of the interest is historical though - I got their Roman game (same engine) and it didn't thrill me.

John
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on January 15, 2016, 08:48:46 PM
Still in development, but Paradox Stellaris seem to resemble Aurora quite a lot.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: CharonJr on February 01, 2016, 04:18:34 PM
Stellaris and Distant Worlds 2 look interesting.

Actually Dominion 4 is VERY complex if you add in the construction of artifacts and using magic - especially battlefield magic since you have to order your mages what to cast before the battle and there quite a number of combo effects.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Bughunter on March 10, 2016, 10:08:58 AM
Quote from: Mor link=topic=3104. msg85221#msg85221 date=1452912526
Still in development, but Paradox Stellaris seem to resemble Aurora quite a lot.

Have been following the development of this one.  Stellaris could be a worthy successor to MOO2, but nowhere near Aurora in grognardism.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on March 10, 2016, 04:21:23 PM
I have yet to read all Dev Diaries, but so far they used\improved a lot of the same concepts. Although I suspect that combat won't be as rich, its Pardox game hence modable and with a big community, in half year time its likely to offer way more gameplay verity than name schemes.

Offtopic: I know that some Veterans loving adopted the term grognards, but its generally isn't compliment ;)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 10, 2016, 07:46:37 PM
the original Grognards would not agree with you

and you're about 30 years too late to argue about it's adoption by old school wargamers
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: MarcAFK on March 11, 2016, 12:52:31 AM
You what mon frere? I'll have you know I fought at Waterloo, and know cinquante ways to kill a man.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 11, 2016, 08:42:14 PM
Vive L'Empereur!
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on March 12, 2016, 08:39:59 AM
the original Grognards would not agree with you

and you're about 30 years too late to argue about it's adoption by old school wargamers
Their agreement or lack thereof is irrelevant. Even dictionary definitions update with time, and this one isn't even that, its a cute reactionary esoteric title that got watered down with time. Especially in regard to computer games e.g. having an old computer that can't run games from the least 20years, has nothing todo with being a Grognard, only that you have limited options.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Iranon on March 12, 2016, 10:42:18 AM
That's not how I see it used.
Less "my computer can't run it", more "things aren't as good as they used to be"

Tabletop/RPG grognards may long for simpler rulesets with more room for improvisation rather than the refined later versions.
The computer game equivalents may pine for a time when simpler styling left more room for gameplay (e.g. fully destructible environments or sprawling levels in DOS-era games may be absent from modern remakes, because they'd be difficult to deliver with the expected production values).
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on March 12, 2016, 05:29:28 PM
Those are just romanticized window dressing. And Subscribing to the idea that "they don't make them like they used to" doesn't make you Grognard, and with PC it more often that not means you either an edgy kid or someone whose gaming days are behind a wall of RL and their familiarity with modern titles ends with few mainstream\popular titles that are meant for a different audience. Anyway, it doesn't really mater and we digress.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Zincat on March 12, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
There is one.

Now, when I say that I mean not only in complexity, but in theme.  A true 4x space conquest galore.  It is Space Empires, in two flavors: Space Empires V with Kwok's balance mod, or Space empires IV with any of its great mods.  There is simply not another game that comes closer to Aurora in terms of depth and complexity, even if Aurora is still more complex.  As stated in the first post, perhaps the only other reasonable comparison would be Dwarf Fortress.

I wish someone could prove me wrong showing me another complex great Space 4x.  .  .

I hate you. Really I do. Why did you have to remember me of space empires 5 with the kwok mod? Now I HAVE to reinstall it....

War in the pacific AE is immensely complex, and immensely long. Like, LONG. One game might take 2-000 hours or more. There is a catch though, if you really want to play it, you have to play it against a human opponent via play by email. On the Matrix forums there is an entire forum full of epic AAR. It's THE ultimate strategy game. But as said, it's frakking LONG. And it's learning curve, if you truly want to LEARN it and play it well (and you will need to do so against a human opponent) is so bad that Aurora is probably easier. ...


Distant worlds is extremely nice, but requires you to auto pause very frequently if you want to micromanage everything. And people who play Aurora will want to :P

Dominions 4 is quite complex. But very similar to Dominions 3. And while the game is very good, I didn't like too much the endgame specifically.


About AI war, it's a completely different type of game, BUT I have to admit that depending on the setting you choose at game start it can be insanely difficult. As in, why was I so masochistic as to try this game like this?
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Vandermeer on March 12, 2016, 06:42:54 PM
I've never actually managed to finish even a single Space Empires V game. I always play on gigantic 150-200 star maps, but at some points every single turn takes you about 30+ minutes to administrate. Always told myself that I would make it to ringworlds and dysons this time, but eventually it dried out everytime. ..But as with Aurora, you always come back. Currently I still tell myself to finish a SE5 game from 1.5 years ago where I custom modded Kwok so that the star systems are larger, the ship classes diverge much more extremely in size (and costs) with some larger version components and extra tech levels too, + corresponding AI so they would fill these designs accurately. Yeah, in the end I spent more time modding it than playing, although it worked great. Just that the turn length wont stop expanding, as I can't help but micro everything. ;)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on March 12, 2016, 09:11:03 PM
War in the pacific AE is immensely complex, and immensely long. Like, LONG. One game might take 2-000 hours or more. There is a catch though, if you really want to play it, you have to play it against a human opponent via play by email. On the Matrix forums there is an entire forum full of epic AAR. It's THE ultimate strategy game. But as said, it's frakking LONG.
I love that game, in many respects it put my favorite ww2 strategy series to shame (HOI), but time... I love deep games where my ass handed to me if I am not micro managing everything But some times such games can become repetitive time sink, which you "play" on auto-pilot (at that point I usually start listening to audiobooks) and you find yourself wasting hours doing the exact same thign. That why I had to limit some of those "job" games.  So to me paradox games present a more content rich environment that actually keep me playing for longer.

Yeah, in the end I spent more time modding it than playing
The modder "curse" been there done that ;)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Zincat on March 13, 2016, 03:01:09 AM
I love that game, in many respects it put my favorite ww2 strategy series to shame (HOI), but time... I love deep games where my ass handed to me if I am not micro managing everything But some times such games can become repetitive time sink, which you "play" on auto-pilot (at that point I usually start listening to audiobooks) and you find yourself wasting hours doing the exact same thign. That why I had to limit some of those "job" games.  So to me paradox games present a more content rich environment that actually keep me playing for longer.

The reason for that is that you do not play it in multiplayer. Think about it, it feels repetitive because... a lot of what you do doesn't really matter all that much. Against a human player it's a different thing.

Then again, to play such a game in multiplayer, with someone like you who spends countless hours on such a game. And I mean countless. It's a full-time job :P

I know for a fact (I have asked) about the turn length for those AARs players. Usually between 40 minutes and 2 hours a turn. But sometimes you get those planning turns when you have to spend 4-6-8 hours or so? :P
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 14, 2016, 03:41:30 PM
Their agreement or lack thereof is irrelevant. Even dictionary definitions update with time, and this one isn't even that, its a cute reactionary esoteric title that got watered down with time. Especially in regard to computer games e.g. having an old computer that can't run games from the least 20years, has nothing todo with being a Grognard, only that you have limited options.

Well since they all would have been dead by the mid 1800's doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot.

you do realise that the only people who would even have known the term when it was first applied to wargamers would have been the people it applied to...

First time I was called a Grognard was in 1983 (and I was only 15) I suspect I'm one of the very last of the no choice but to start in Napoleonic (or Ancients) miniatures gaming because there was no other option (in 1978 I played my first game, and my Prussians were crushed by the Empire,  though since I was only 10ish not a real surprise, the guy who taught me (and beat the tar out of me for years) was a REAL Grognard,  he despised hex maps as a new fangled limitation that took away too much from reality,  and had nothing but contempt for WW2 gaming, I once got a 3 hour lecture when he saw a copy of AH's Panzer Leader rules in my stuff, and trust me,  he REVELLED in being a Grognard)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Erik Luken on March 14, 2016, 07:47:21 PM
When it comes to flight games, I prefer WW1. For ground type games, WWII +
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Mor on March 14, 2016, 08:19:32 PM
Quote from: boggo2300 link=topic=3104.msg87949#msg87949
you do realise that the only people who would even have known the term [b
when it was first applied[/b] to wargamers would have been the people it applied to..
Exactly my point, time change and with it its use. I wouldn't define myself with such esoteric title, because much like private jokes its only works if you tell it to someone in the know..

For you its your experience with Napoleonic miniatures and reaction to new rulebooks, later on it was adopted by veteran RPGs players vs the new rulebooks (every age repeats).... there is also a site by the same name and I assume some readers may take to the title like redditors.... and there is also how it used in PC games etc etc

I once got a 3 hour lecture when he saw a copy of AH's Panzer Leader rules in my stuff
Sounds familiar and in my experience the main reason for the negative association. Its like watching a tv-show with some who read the book and can't stop ranting how they did it all wrong through out the whole episode i.e it is great that we are passionate, but its important not let that suck out the fun for everyone else.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 14, 2016, 09:32:56 PM
during those three hours though he was kicking my poor Prussians from the field of battle (and he may have actually been using the Grognards to do it, they were pretty much hell on wheels in Napoleonics)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 14, 2016, 09:34:51 PM
When it comes to flight games, I prefer WW1. For ground type games, WWII +

WOOHOO  Blue Max FTW!!

horribly simple game but MAN was it fun
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Erik Luken on March 15, 2016, 08:36:09 AM
WOOHOO  Blue Max FTW!!

horribly simple game but MAN was it fun

And Richthofen's War.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on March 15, 2016, 04:00:25 PM
making FUN games was out of scope for AH surely ;)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: 83athom on April 01, 2016, 03:57:02 PM
I can't believe no one said this one yet. Rule the Waves. It is a Naval game about 1900 on. Its turnbased for its main gameplay (where you design, research, build, etc) and has "realtime" (stop, slow, and speed up options available) tactical battles. When designing ships, you chose the main armaments, secondary and tertiary weapons, engine power, armor levels, tonnage, torpedoes, etc etc.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on April 03, 2016, 04:49:17 PM
ooh haven't heard of that one,  considering it's time frame does it have ways to simulate the Protected to Armoured cruiser, and the Dreadnought revolutions?
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Bughunter on April 04, 2016, 07:39:13 AM
Quote from: boggo2300 link=topic=3104. msg88811#msg88811 date=1459720157
ooh haven't heard of that one,  considering it's time frame does it have ways to simulate the Protected to Armoured cruiser, and the Dreadnought revolutions?

Yes it does by scientific development allowing more battleship-like designs with centerline turrets etc as things progress.  Looks like it models ship building during the period about as well as you could do it in a game.  Actually didn't start playing it yet, but it is on my todo-list.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Vandermeer on April 04, 2016, 02:52:42 PM
I had mentioned that in another thread one year ago, but "Solar War (http://solarwar.net/screenshots.php)"

It is very much like Aurora where some trans-newtonian elements make fast travel possible, however it is restricted for Sol for now. (the guy making this announced plans to extend the game to more systems, but given how long this has been in development, it may not happen)
You can design your ships, have to balance the Earth's allocated budget (which you have to win via some diplomacy), then fend of various attempts of the aliens to strike you down as you build up larger fleets and eventually start pushing back through Sol into higher orbits.

The best part about this then is the officer mechanic, where you have to man every larger ship with a set of bridge officers that influence performance in various ways (despite focus lying more on fleet battles than individual ship personality), and then you also have to appoint (Rear/Vice/Normal/Fleet-)Admirals to each fleet, or the headquarters.
Off-Topic: show
(http://grogheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SolarWar16-lets-hope-our-navigator-officer-will-get-us-out.jpg)


Interesting, but also still basic at this time.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on April 04, 2016, 04:42:37 PM
ok looks interesting, gotta ask though,  if you're restricted to Sol,  which is actually fine by me (Triplanetary FTW!) what is a warp array?

and is there a way to play it without aliens,  just human factions?

Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on April 04, 2016, 04:43:09 PM
Yes it does by scientific development allowing more battleship-like designs with centerline turrets etc as things progress.  Looks like it models ship building during the period about as well as you could do it in a game.  Actually didn't start playing it yet, but it is on my todo-list.

Dammit I have to get it now :P
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Vandermeer on April 04, 2016, 05:16:54 PM
ok looks interesting, gotta ask though,  if you're restricted to Sol,  which is actually fine by me (Triplanetary FTW!) what is a warp array?

and is there a way to play it without aliens,  just human factions?
The thrusters are only combat maneuvering, and not good enough to get you do other places short of the nearby moon of a body. Ships with warp engines are needed to go to the rest of Sol, and that means that you actually cannot leave Earth for a while since you have to research all technology that leads to light cruisers, which are similar to Aurora in that they can take some other ships with their "jump engines".(Alternative: Board an alien light cruiser)

There is only the story mode, and you cannot setup anything short of difficulty. That means one alien invader and a human faction, which is you, representing a chosen corpus of council member countries/ or the incarnation of a single country/ or I think there was also option to try doing it yourself, but that may be really stupid.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on April 04, 2016, 05:24:43 PM
still sounds interesting, if not ideal,  whats the game development speed like?
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Vandermeer on April 05, 2016, 11:37:30 AM
You mean from the game developer, or ingame?
The developer is gaining progress really slow, but is understandable. Patches come about in every 6 months, but unless what Steve does, there is rarely 'visible' change to any core mechanic. As said, I doubt there will be much more, but I always check in periods of a couple months, because I really would want something with this nice officer system to function.

Ingame speed depends entirely on you, as you can fast forward as much as you like. If you know what to do, you can play through a story mode in an afternoon I guess, though you wouldn't see all possible tech. There is also a pacing problem near the end, where the last fight is suddenly really challenging, so you need to build up fleet for forever unless you sport some unconventional attack plan.(you can chose out of a couple strategies in the end)
My few games lasted maybe around 12-20 hours though, because I always want to do and colonize everything. One time I tried to get an Neutronium plated Battleship at the end of a game. ...That added +100% game time by itself just for this, because the stuff is incredibly rare.(it's not even really worth it..)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on April 05, 2016, 05:15:19 PM
I actually played the Demo last night till I ran out of the 2 hour time limit,  then bought the game,  it's actually really engaging,  though I'm struggling with designing a light cruiser with a power plant that actually fits in the hull (bizarrely even building a cruiser with the same loadout as a Destroyer, the Cruiser ends up oversize!)

but since I've only played about 5 hours I'm still on the steep end of the learning curve,  my limitations so far seem to be getting enough low ranked officers to fill the bridge positions!
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: CaptainEarth on September 08, 2016, 09:30:20 AM
I know it's an older topic, but if you like the Dwarf Fortress Adventure mode it's worth checking out cataclysm dark days ahead.  It's a zombie/survival game in the same style as DF and just as in depth!
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: ardem on September 19, 2016, 11:47:33 PM
This thread is never to die so no apologies. Still not much in the way of detail orientated games out there.

http://gazettereview.com/2016/04/games-like-dwarf-fortress/

This is the latest link but none is even close.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: sloanjh on May 21, 2019, 08:09:03 AM
I can't believe no one said this one yet. Rule the Waves. It is a Naval game about 1900 on. Its turnbased for its main gameplay (where you design, research, build, etc) and has "realtime" (stop, slow, and speed up options available) tactical battles. When designing ships, you chose the main armaments, secondary and tertiary weapons, engine power, armor levels, tonnage, torpedoes, etc etc.

In case people haven't noticed, Rule the Waves 2 is out as of Friday.  It adds aircraft (both lighter and heavier than air) and the tech tree can go to 1950 (I think the last playable date is in 1972).  It's from a small (1 dev in spare time, I think) shop, so the bug report thread for v1.0 is up to ~10 pages, but they're going after them hard and I expect an update in the next few days.  Here's a link to the board:

http://nws-online.proboards.com/board/27/rule-waves-2

The game is a contrast with Aurora in some ways, in that you're playing the part of the Navy minister - you only have indirect control of budget and policies by making choices that are presented to you - your main function at this level is to design and build your fleet and deploy your forces.  In addition, the strategic timescale is a month - you move your ships to 15 zones (it takes a month of travel time to move to an adjacent zone).  Every month the system generates a tactical battle somewhere in the world, to which it assigns a random-ish OOB and drops into a pausable tactical simulation where (at hardest difficulty) you're the top admiral - the AI controls (almost) all your divisions and ships within the division.  So, although the microing associated with tracking the detailed movement of ships between battles is gone, as is detailed control of the economy.

I found out about the game from the post above, and the first one is one of the games I keep coming back to.  The second one seems to be a great improvement so far.

John
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: JacenHan on May 21, 2019, 09:40:05 AM
I'd also note that there is a demo available that lets you play either Britain or Japan from 1920 to 1925, if you want to try it out first.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Black on May 21, 2019, 10:52:34 AM
I was watching gameplay of RtW2 yesterday. It seems quite interesting and I will most likely pick it up.

I was considering to start new campaign in WitP:AE, but it is years since I played last time and is very time consuming, so this could be nice alternative that is a bit more suitable for my limited gaming time.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on May 26, 2019, 06:01:46 PM
I actually bought Rule the Waves 2 and have spent the last 4 days er ruling the waves!  It's expensive but a lot of fun!  Interestingly my last game (UK 1900) I beat the French handily in two wars, was allied with the Germans, unfortunately ended up at war with the US and couldn't keep up with their BB production (mine were better, but they took on my Renown with 5!!!! BB's! then things just kept on the same until I was sacked as first lord in 1930!
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: ardem on May 28, 2019, 09:12:28 PM
Yeah I am also looking getting RtW2, although still playing HOI4 at the moment with Road to 56 mod. After all these years, still not found the epicness that I get from Aurora from any commercial game. The idea that you can design ships, then put them into battle with real world space tactics, and then manage an empire, I am so looking forward to the new ground combat, my only dream was if it had another screen like space combat but for land combat.

The old Emperor of the Fading Suns was the last true invasion game that was fanatstic, I wish they would remake that.

Rimworld get the closest with a lot of mods, although it is a bit more dwarf fortress lite.

Game developers are just not interesting in making complex games I guess a smaller market. Seen 9 years after this post still on the hunt LOL
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on May 29, 2019, 05:24:20 PM
I finished my first game all the way through to 1955, got to a prestige of 45 playing as US with medium fleet, 5 wars against the French for some reason, 2 against the Russians, and 1 against the UK, my final war in the 1950's was me stomping the French with my carrier heavy fleet demolishing their still Dreadnought Battleship fleet in the Caribbean (final battle I sunk 3 BB's and a BC for no losses, mwahahaha!)
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Cavgunner on June 11, 2019, 12:32:49 AM
So I went out and bought Rule the Waves 2 based upon this thread.  I have spent pretty much the last 3 weeks playing it, so I'd say it's worth the price.

The game has some odd mechanics, and after a few playthroughs you start to realize that capturing more territory doesn't really enhance your empire's power in the way it does it most games.  However, the ability to design your own ships is the real draw here.  This is particularly a challenge in a 1900 start, when the post-ironclad ships and technologies you start out with are hilariously bad.  As in, you probably won't be reliably hitting anything unless you're at point blank range.  Just like real history!

But then, surprise surprise, ship designs start taking on a much more modern form by 1915 or so.  By the mid 1930's, you're designing carriers and warships that look like they would be at home in World War II.  Again... just like real history!

The bigger the ship, the longer it takes to construct.  A destroyer might take around a year to build, while a modestly-sized battleship or carrier will probably take over two years to construct.  As a consequence, your newly constructed ships are always *slightly* technologically outdated.  Ship refits can be a temporary band-aid to this problem, but eventually, core technologies will have advanced so far that an old ship will no longer be competitive even with a comprehensive refit. 

For example, as Austria-Hungary I designed a class of coastal battleships featuring four 16-inch guns mounted in two forward-facing turrets.  Fifteen years later, I was able to replace these ships with a class that featured eight 16-inch guns in two forward facing-turrets (four guns per turret).  Despite being superior to their predecessors in every way- speed, armor, firepower, fire control, secondary weapons, AA defense, all of it- these newer ships weighed nearly 2,000 tons less, and were less costly to maintain too.  The issue?  They each took around 27 months to construct, and during that time I was highly, highly vulnerable.  Keeping your fleet tightly modernized AND reasonably sized without going bankrupt are core challenges of the game.

To a warship nerd like me, this is great stuff.  My only complaint is that the limited variety of in-game events become a bit dry after a few playthroughs.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on June 12, 2019, 08:09:26 PM
Austro-Hungary seems the hardest to play, I've run into major budget issues with them more than any other nation,  though they are nice to play defensively as they are so heavily invested in the Med.  Actually the UK is among the trickiest because of it's possessions in pretty much every zone, and the need for large tonnages on Foreign Stations  (btw putting a CV as a raider in late game wars is DA BOMB!  literally ;) )
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Andrew on October 02, 2019, 09:29:39 AM
I find that playing Britain you really need to use historical resources or you cannot afford both a colonial fleet and a home fleet as strong as anyone else in Europe or stronger , and still by the late 40's and 50's it is only the poor AI designs that let your fleet keep up with America (which is as it should be) , if the game went on any longer the Americans would bury you.  Still smaller fleets can do well as long as your ships are better and the odds not too bad.
The most onesided battleship duels I have had are when I have developed in the 50's gunnery fire control radar which can engage when the other side cannot see me at night or in bad weather , this has resulted in some slaughters of slower AI battleships by my heavy modern dreadnoughts
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on October 02, 2019, 05:28:58 PM
It's a little counter-intuitive the more historically Naval powerhouses are actually the harder nations to play,  Italy, Austria-Hungary and to a lesser extent France and Spain are the easiest to play as they are more tightly focussed on territory and hence easier to keep those territories safe

UK and US seem to be hardest to me
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Garfunkel on October 14, 2019, 11:33:45 AM
In a sense that's how it should be, because UK and US navies have ambitions and responsibilities on a global scale during RTW time period. The problem is that you as a player have to do it all alone, without thousands of other officers helping out.

Similarly, playing UK in Hearts of Iron is more difficult than playing Germany, for example, because as Hitler you're focusing on Europe and later Mediterranean and the Soviet Union, whereas as Churchill you have to worry about two-thirds of the world.
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on October 14, 2019, 04:26:00 PM
RTW focuses you on playing defensively when you are in a war and as the UK for example has holdings EVERYWHERE to defend you chew up so much of your fleet just giving a minimal defence to places you don't have enough to basically smite the weakling nations,  now this is accurate but maybe a little over focussed as the penalties for allowing enemy fleets activity around your colonies are a little harsh and restrict you a LITTLE too much (saying this, I've now kicked total ass as the UK with a finishing prestige of 61 and 5 monster Aircraft Carriers, 45,000 ton's each
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: ZimRathbone on October 17, 2019, 06:07:44 AM
RTW focuses you on playing defensively when you are in a war and as the UK for example has holdings EVERYWHERE to defend you chew up so much of your fleet just giving a minimal defence to places you don't have enough to basically smite the weakling nations,  now this is accurate but maybe a little over focussed as the penalties for allowing enemy fleets activity around your colonies are a little harsh and restrict you a LITTLE too much (saying this, I've now kicked total ass as the UK with a finishing prestige of 61 and 5 monster Aircraft Carriers, 45,000 ton's each

Impressed!
 
Haven't managed that well, but did get 58 prestige and 5 x 43,000t BBs with 17" guns and 1 CV at the same size (also a bunch of smaller CVs around the 32,000t mark that actually carried more a/c).  Was in the process of building HMS Superb (59,000t with 6x20").
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: boggo2300 on October 17, 2019, 04:07:05 PM
How well you do does depend a LOT on the RNG, probably more than it should, if you for instance get a few early wars, that are short and sharp, when your opponent chickens out of a lot of fleet engagements, as soon as that war finishes you can build up quick, you get a few of those then more serious wars also start to go the same way,  I see it very much as your first war sets up the rest of the game
Title: Re: Games like Aurora
Post by: Andrew on October 21, 2019, 06:04:26 AM
I can usually manage a prestige of 100 + and a fleet of doom for the UK with historical resources but the USA is a definite threat in the end game with a fleet at least as large and often more modern. Playing the US makes the end game easy as no one else with AI control produces a fleet that can stand up to you even slightly.
I am having fun trying to dominate as one of the lesser powers