Aurora 4x

Fiction => Steve's Fiction => Aurora => Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire => Topic started by: Beersatron on January 25, 2015, 03:50:06 PM

Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Beersatron on January 25, 2015, 03:50:06 PM
Yes!  :)
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Mel Vixen on January 26, 2015, 06:04:27 PM
Is the sudden militarisation a bit to much? I mean 2 derelict ships is one thing but stamping out what accounts to 3 fleets on the base of artefacts that could be centuries old? Is the Emperor just a bit hotheaded or is it a Rigellian trait?

Also since when can 2 ruins be of the same culture? I mean i never noticed that behavior before.

Good to see a new campaign though.
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: sloanjh on January 26, 2015, 07:25:54 PM
Yes!  :)

:)
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: schroeam on January 26, 2015, 07:27:17 PM
:)

:)
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Garfunkel on January 26, 2015, 11:49:08 PM
I assume Steve is roleplaying that both colonies belong to the same empire. Still, a nice coincidence that the wrecks were above the ruins!

And the physical proof of the existence of aliens that had fought a battle at some point is, imho, sufficient motivation to build a small fleet.
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Five on January 27, 2015, 01:09:33 AM
Steve,

I'm curious when you do these campaigns do you research components or just the tech and instant the ship component? I have done campaigns both ways but it seems like I always instant something along the line, just to make things fit size wise...oh no room make the active smaller, etc. Just curious as how others do it.

-Five
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 27, 2015, 04:35:32 AM
Is the sudden militarisation a bit to much? I mean 2 derelict ships is one thing but stamping out what accounts to 3 fleets on the base of artefacts that could be centuries old? Is the Emperor just a bit hotheaded or is it a Rigellian trait?

Also since when can 2 ruins be of the same culture? I mean i never noticed that behavior before.

Good to see a new campaign though.

The Rigellians went from aliens don't exist to proof they do, so building a fleet was the reaction. Imagine current day Earth finding a wrecked alien spacecraft - how calmly do you think we would take that? :)

It's not uncommon for multiple ruins in the same system to be the same culture.
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Steve Walmsley on January 27, 2015, 04:38:12 AM
Steve,

I'm curious when you do these campaigns do you research components or just the tech and instant the ship component? I have done campaigns both ways but it seems like I always instant something along the line, just to make things fit size wise...oh no room make the active smaller, etc. Just curious as how others do it.

-Five

During initial set up, I instant any components. Once the game starts I research components if they are more than 100 RP (so almost all of them). I do sometimes instant a temporary component to check a ship design, then delete it and research the real one.
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: schroeam on January 27, 2015, 10:00:51 AM
The Rigellians went from aliens don't exist to proof they do, so building a fleet was the reaction. Imagine current day Earth finding a wrecked alien spacecraft - how calmly do you think we would take that? :)

Hmmm... yes, imagine... or maybe NOT imagine???  HAHA... jk.... really NSA, I was kidding...  ;)
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: xeryon on January 27, 2015, 11:17:16 AM
Awesome.  The Rigellians make a return. 

Having read the initial diaries more than once I wonder how much the more limiting structure of Aurora vs tabletop will alter the general course of events and if database slowdown/corruption will prematurely end the expansion of their empire?
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: sloanjh on January 27, 2015, 10:20:37 PM
Awesome.  The Rigellians make a return. 

Having read the initial diaries more than once I wonder how much the more limiting structure of Aurora vs tabletop will alter the general course of events and if database slowdown/corruption will prematurely end the expansion of their empire?

Not sure how much of the history of Aurora you know here.  For those who aren't in on the backstory:  The core code for Aurora was originally called "Starfire Assistant" (SA) - it was a book-keeping program Steve wrote (in VB 6 :) ) to keep track of all that stuff for his Starfire campaigns.  The Rigellian campaign was played using SA, and as the campaign grew so did SA (I remember at some point Steve did a lot of work to put amalgamation of empires into SA, 'cuz he had a big merger between the Rigellians and another empire coming up).

In the end, you could say that "slowdown" killed the Rigellian campaign (that and Steve moved on to Aurora) - near the end the campaign was so huge that (IIRC) it was taking him months to play through a single turn.  You can see this in the page count for the turns in the Diaries - the last few turns take up a significant fraction of the write-up.  If anything, I suspect the Aurora engine would make the game more manageable - SA didn't have tactical movement, so battle management was a lot more labor-intensive.

At this point I think almost all of the actual game mechanics/rules in Aurora are completely different from SA/Starfire, but the underlying core application is a direct descendant of SA.  So the upshot is that I don't think Aurora has a "more limiting structure" vs. the Starfire of the Rigellian campaign (since it wasn't really a tabletop campaign), especially since the limitations don't matter nearly as much when you're the one writing the program :)

John
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: xeryon on January 28, 2015, 09:15:53 AM
Not sure how much of the history of Aurora you know here.  ....

I am pretty familiar.  I've been an Aurora player and forum reader/user for many years now.  I should have been more clear I suppose. 

Please correct me if I am wrong: SA was entirely player controlled.  This would allow for tactical decisions that promote gameplay and the storyline.  Aurora is more autonomous and limiting in that way.  If a NPR does something dumb in Aurora the players is just stuck with it.  Much like the suicidal Space Vikings in the last fiction.  They kept repeating an action that was producing no benefit at all to the point where they depleted their resources and destroyed their ability to defend themselves.

I would also surmise that the code for Aurora is considerably more complex and would take more effort to modify as he goes along.

The bottom line is that I am just hoping this turns into an epic saga that will play out over a multitude of chapters.  I love reading Steve's fiction when I cannot find the time to play myself.

Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: CharonJr on January 31, 2015, 05:07:08 PM
...

Also since when can 2 ruins be of the same culture? I mean i never noticed that behavior before.

...

Had the same in my current game, 2 ruins of the same culture in 1 system, sadly those were only TL2 ;)
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: alex_brunius on February 02, 2015, 07:48:53 AM
Had the same in my current game, 2 ruins of the same culture in 1 system, sadly those were only TL2 ;)

I wonder if you can have ruins of the same culture in adjacent systems too? Might be a cool idea otherwise, especially for higher TL ruins it would make sense to find an entire lost civilization spanning many systems ( although a bit overpowered if the AI can't also exploit the ruins? ).

Or to balance it you could find most of these ruins on worlds with still extreme radiation levels ( thus explaining how they became ruins ).
Title: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Mel Vixen on February 02, 2015, 10:57:03 PM
One could apply a bit of a Gausian distribution with its peak at Tl2 quickly tappering of making it increasingly unlikely to find more advanced ruins. One could also lower the Techlevel and number of Installations with the distance from the homesystem - so that say you get on the fringes a Techlevel 2 while the Homeworld was at 4.

Ruins with a bit of conventional industry could be interesting too.

Radiation would be cool.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Garfunkel on February 04, 2015, 02:59:14 AM
Bah, I saw "2 topics" and got excited that Steve had posted Part 2.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: MarcAFK on February 04, 2015, 03:01:43 AM
The discussion always goes on within Steve's threads anyway, so IDK :p
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Erik Luken on February 04, 2015, 07:21:13 AM
I was asked to split it to keep the fiction portion pure :)
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: boggo2300 on February 04, 2015, 03:03:17 PM
pure?


EUGENICS!

KHAAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAN!!

ok, my morning coffee may have been a little strong
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Steve Walmsley on February 04, 2015, 03:06:04 PM
It wasn't me who asked BTW but I am happy either way. It's always been in the threads before because I make multiple posts rather than posting all fiction in a single thread.

Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Garfunkel on February 04, 2015, 07:50:23 PM
It's getting hairy for the Rigellians!
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Mel Vixen on February 05, 2015, 10:44:24 AM
Have even the Rigellians hair?

Also the 13K fast facs are scary especially with the 58K speed missiles but i love how the entire thing shapes up. What i seem to have missed what happened with the salvager, did it turnup anything interesting?
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Vortex421 on February 05, 2015, 11:49:04 AM
I would definitely be ramping up industry like mad right now.   I fear that the Rigellians have bitten off more than they can chew - if they have teeth, mind you.   Until they know more about their possible adversaries they run the risk of inviting an incursion into their home system.   (I know that, if I were their adversary and I knew I could wallop their ships without getting in too much trouble in return, I'd be following them home. )
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: boggo2300 on February 05, 2015, 02:32:22 PM
Have even the Rigellians hair?

Yes,  they're Human.

Assuming Steve is keeping to the original background
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Witty on February 16, 2015, 04:50:25 PM
Steve, I gotta ask, how does the AI decide it's time to just ram things?
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Steve Walmsley on February 16, 2015, 05:05:59 PM
Steve, I gotta ask, how does the AI decide it's time to just ram things?

Usually, if they have no other way to attack you.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: MarcAFK on February 16, 2015, 09:24:50 PM
Lack of ammo I guess?
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: alex_brunius on February 17, 2015, 04:22:05 AM
See the Yamato class Battleship is being built ;D

Realize it's fitted out with less laser firepower then the Kagero class destroyer, and only 25% thicker armor  :'(
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: xeryon on February 17, 2015, 07:21:25 AM
Minimally thicker: yes, but the belt itself is considerably wider overall and unless there are some very lucky shots that hit the same area it will provide a lot more than 25% increase in protection.

I was kind of disappointed in the overall armament.  It has a diverse array of weapons.  I feel like it is going to be mediocre at everything and that the smaller ships that are specialized will end up being considerably more useful.  Kind of a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' kind of problem.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: alex_brunius on February 17, 2015, 04:50:47 PM
Minimally thicker: yes, but the belt itself is considerably wider overall and unless there are some very lucky shots that hit the same area it will provide a lot more than 25% increase in protection.

Only against scattered damage ( and due to size not due to thickness ), against a focused laser beam that can cut the armor in a single shot ( for example the destroyers lasers ::) ) it will only provide 25% increased protection.

Real battleship namesakes had vast amounts of armor.

For example the Yamashiro: Total Armor Weight- 12,199 tons (42% of total). So the armor on this Battleship weighted about 4 times as much as the entire weight of a typical destroyer. The Yamato was about twice the size of the Yamashiro and I doubt it had much less weight percentage armor meaning armor alone on the historical battleship should be about 8 times the full weight of a destroyer.

And when it comes to big guns, it's a bit of shame none of the Guns have calibers independent of research like missiles have...
I would love to be able to put huge but crude and slow reload guns for close combat jump-point defense/assault devastating initial barrages.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: xeryon on February 18, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
That's what carronades are for.  There is a line of tech that I wish was more fulfilling.  Maybe taking into consideration the the standard large gun doctrine of a battleship and modifying the concept for a space theme might make that weapon tech line more fun.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: illrede on February 18, 2015, 12:47:33 PM
Quote from: xeryon link=topic=7685.     msg78457#msg78457 date=1424179285
Minimally thicker: yes, but the belt itself is considerably wider overall and unless there are some very lucky shots that hit the same area it will provide a lot more than 25% increase in protection.     

I was kind of disappointed in the overall armament.       It has a diverse array of weapons.       I feel like it is going to be mediocre at everything and that the smaller ships that are specialized will end up being considerably more useful.       Kind of a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' kind of problem.     

I have hit on one "Battleship" (can't do cruiser work) design template that I think works, and ironically it was the result of trying to intentionally make a "pre-dreadnought" design, the proverbial 'jack of all trades, master of none'.     The freakish thing about it was it required an abnormally high base tracking speed, but otherwise it did battleline work like nothing else.     2-4 Large railguns, 10-20 Small railguns, 20-40 large missile tubes (hour reload speed, thermal sensors) , 60-80% cruiser speed.   

EDIT: Wow the forum did not like something about this post, 5th attempt to make it and I eventually hit on posting a sentence at a time and modifying them in to see what broke things.   
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: alex_brunius on February 18, 2015, 04:12:33 PM
That's what carronades are for.

Nope, carronades also have a caliber tech to boost their size/damage, it's not open for you to choose how big you want to make them...

What I am talking about is low tech, big size guns. Not possible in Aurora to my knowledge ( only with missiles where size is open to your choice ).
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: xeryon on February 18, 2015, 04:34:05 PM
You just repeated exactly what I said.

Carronades are the closest representation to cannons/artillery Aurora has.  Large amounts of damage at low tech and, comparatively, low range.  With some minor modifications from Steve they would be able to recreate the feel and style of battleship large caliber guns without changing game balance.  Allow a carronade to be fit to a turret and to set the caliber/range/accuracy ratio and lots of fun could be had in close quarters ship battles.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: alex_brunius on February 18, 2015, 06:04:57 PM
You just repeated exactly what I said.

Nope.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: chrislocke2000 on March 17, 2015, 09:09:13 AM
Great update although it looks like that, even with the starting restrictions, you are well and truly out performing the NPRs. I think it also brings home the need for the NPRs to better manage their TGs and stop throwing ships at large fleets piecemeal to get torn apart.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Steve Walmsley on March 17, 2015, 06:13:18 PM
Great update although it looks like that, even with the starting restrictions, you are well and truly out performing the NPRs. I think it also brings home the need for the NPRs to better manage their TGs and stop throwing ships at large fleets piecemeal to get torn apart.

Don't worry - as this is a Rigellian campaign I will be adding NPRs as I go and ensuring they can provide a challenge.
Title: Re: Chronicle of the Rigellian Empire - Part 1 Discussion
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 23, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
You just repeated exactly what I said.

Carronades are the closest representation to cannons/artillery Aurora has.  Large amounts of damage at low tech and, comparatively, low range.  With some minor modifications from Steve they would be able to recreate the feel and style of battleship large caliber guns without changing game balance.  Allow a carronade to be fit to a turret and to set the caliber/range/accuracy ratio and lots of fun could be had in close quarters ship battles.

He's not exactly bring perfectly clear about it, but he means he wants, say, extra slow but still possible 35cm weapons at TL2, rather than Plasma Carronades which you cannot quite simply make as large as you want. There's a limit based on your tech that you can't make them bigger than. He wants that removed, essentially.