Aurora 4x

Aurora => C# Aurora => Topic started by: Garfunkel on July 08, 2018, 01:48:32 PM

Title: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 08, 2018, 01:48:32 PM
Steve confirmed here: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9792.msg108838#msg108838 that it is possible to have Ground Unit templates. So I suggest that to ease his workload and to improve future player experience, let's knock heads together and make proper templates for all 21st Century major Earth powers. This means both individual equipment templates as well as unit composition templates as well as formation templates. I went through pinned Screenshots Only thread but couldn't find the new ground unit screenshots. Does anyone remember where they are? Once we have those copy pasted here, we can start working.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 08, 2018, 06:16:05 PM
Check the Replacing PDCs thread http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9679.540 (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9679.540)

There are a few things to keep in mind during template design; size of independent units, integrated support and the logistics trail. If we can define technology levels as well we should consider different introduction 'dates' for new technologies, like power armoured infantry. Between the cost and risk of such potentially redefining technologies not all nations will introduce them at the same rough tech level, but might instead do so a level later.

Another major constraint will be shipping. This means that early ground unit design will by necessity be smaller.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 09, 2018, 02:14:42 AM
Thanks, it was that thread after all.
Unit screen:
(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/OOB001.PNG)

Formation screen:
(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/OOB002.PNG)

Possible components of an unit:
(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Ground01.PNG)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 09, 2018, 12:23:34 PM
Third picture did not render for me.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 12, 2018, 12:02:02 PM
Thanks, fixed it.

So with these tools it should be possible to start putting together equipment lists and formation templates.

For example:

The M1 Abrams tank - various versions exist, that doesn't matter for Aurora. It would be a Heavy Vehicle with Heavy Anti-Vehicle and Crew Served Anti-Infantry weapons.

Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 12, 2018, 02:07:52 PM
Thanks, fixed it.

So with these tools it should be possible to start putting together equipment lists and formation templates.

For example:

The M1 Abrams tank - various versions exist, that doesn't matter for Aurora. It would be a Heavy Vehicle with Heavy Anti-Vehicle and Crew Served Anti-Infantry weapons.

If we use size as a guide (60 tons), Abrams would be Vehicle with Medium Armour, Medium AV and Crew Served AP. Although Abrams is 'heavy' in the current Earth sense, it probably would not be in Aurora terms. A heavier version could be developed as larger vehicles become available.

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Abrams.PNG)

Possible Bradley configuration:

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Bradley.PNG)

If replicating current combat formation is in demand, I could add more granularity to ground weapon types and even have different qualities of 'conventional' armour below Duranium.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 12, 2018, 02:13:55 PM
More granularity at the ground unit level for Conventional level tech is not desirable.

Steve, do you have a master list of what components and armor types can be attached to what unit types? The pictures are nice, but plain text can be copied and pasted.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 12, 2018, 02:15:14 PM
Here are some screenshots of current options for reference. Generally as size increases, more options are available.

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/ATAT.PNG)

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Static.PNG)

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Laser.PNG)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 12, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 12, 2018, 05:30:10 PM
Right, some unit templates.

Infantry

Garrison Troop.
Armour: Light Infantry Armour (AR1)
Slot 1: Light Personal Weapons (Size: 4, AP 5, Dmg 10, Shots 1)
Special Training: None

Generally comes in three types of formations; large garrison formations on low priority worlds that should still have a dedicated garrison force to either quell the threat of riots or as insurance, smaller formations that can be carried by troop transport ships for the purpose of pacifying newly conquered worlds, and finally as security for early TN high value unit like STO units and Bombardment units. These troops are cheap, quick to train, and numerous, making them excellent at freeing up more valuable units for frontline duty. Once Power Armour becomes available it's common for these units to be replaced in the security role by line infantry.

Line Infantry
Armour: Light Infantry Armour (AR1) or Powered Infantry Armour (AR2)
Slot 1: Personal Weapons (Size 5, AP10, Dmg 10, Shots 1)
Special Training: Uncommon

The most common combatant of the various militaries, a decent all rounder but no real specialty. These make up the bulk of any deployed force. Although equipping all of them with cutting edge power armour technology is too expensive to be sensible, as such technology develops it becomes more available. Forces intended for specific planetary theaters may find themselves with specialist training programs for unusual combat conditions.

Weapons Team
Armour: Light Infantry Armour (AR1) or Powered Infantry Armour (AR2)
Slot 1: Crew Served Anti-Personnel (Size 12, AP 10, Dmg 10, Shots 6) or Heavy Crew-Served Anti-Personnel (Size 20, AP 20, Dmg 10, Shots 6) or Light Anti Vehicle (Size 16, AP 20, Dmg 60, Shots 1) or Light Bombardment (Size 20, AP 10, Dmg 10, Shots 3) or Light Anti Air (Size 20, AP 10, Dmg 20, Shots 1)
Special Training: Uncommon

A grouping of support units for infantry formations, you usually find these integrated with the formation they are working with, except for Bombardment units which may be detached into a smaller formation due to game mechanics. There's usually no more than 1 Weapons Team per dozen infantry units, and often less than that, but at least 1 per 50 except for Garrison Troops, which may have fewer.

Special Forces
Armour: Light Infantry Armour (AR1) or Powered Infantry Armour (AR2) or Heavy Powered Armour (AR3)
Slot 1: Any infantry weapon
Special Training: At least 1, often more.

The expensive but very competent option, these forces usually operate in the best armour available and have been trained for expected unusual combat conditions. They otherwise generally reflect their military's infantry doctrines in their operation and organisation. Formations with more than 3 specialties are very unusual as they are very expensive, but the flexibility may be worth it.

Forward Observer
Armour: Light Infantry Armour (AR1) or Powered Infantry Armour (AR2) or Heavy Powered Armour (AR3)
Slot 1: Forward Fire Direction (Size 60, Special)
Special Training: As embedded formation

Forward Observers guide the fire from Bombardment units and ships, and are usually attached straight to the relevant HQ section.

Vehicle:

Armed Transport
Light Vehicle (Size 12)
Armour: Light Vehicle Armour (AR2)
Slot 1: As Weapons Team, swap Light Bombardment for Light Autocannon

A common sight on the modern battlefield, various forms of armed transports are used to quickly move troops around to respond to shifting battlefield conditions. Most are armed with a crew served anti-personnel weapon mounted on top, but it's not unusual to find light anti armour or anti air weapons mounted on them instead. Although Garrison formations usually have few to none of these vehicles (instead using unarmed and unarmoured vehicles that are sufficiently a liability in combat they are not rendered in the engine), other infantry formations will have 1 for anywhere between 5 and 20 infantry units.



Formations.
HQs are inserted as necessary. It's presumed that only 1 HQ is needed of a given rank. Although the Artillery Formations call out the size of their security section, it's presumed that Battalion HQs have a platoon sized security section (30 infantry, 3 weapon teams and 5 Armed Transports) and higher HQs have a security section the size of a Company

Garrison Company
HQ 1250
160 Garrison Troops
4 Crew Served Anti Personnel Weapons Teams
4 Armed Transport with Crew Served Anti Personnel
Total Size: 814

Garrison formations fluctuate considerably in size, but should for ease of counting be considered to be made up of discrete chunks of 40 Garrison Troops, a Weapons Team and an Armed Transport, which is approximately Size 200. Garrison formations are unlikely to have dedicated anti vehicle, anti air or bombardment weapons. It's just generally not needed or too heavy to use in the sort of engagements garrison troops get involved in. If the sort of opponent is expected where such weapons are needed it's preferred to shift dedicated front line combat troops in as reinforcements instead.

Garrison Battalion
HQ 5000
800-1000 Garrison Troops
20-25 Weapons Teams
20-25 Armed Transports

Garrison Regiment
HQ 20k
3000-4000 Garrison Troops
80-100 Weapons Teams
80-100 Armed Transports

Garrison Corps
HQ 250k
30 000-50 000 Garrison Troops
750-1250 Weapons Teams
750-1250 Armed Transports

Garrison Army
HQ 4m
200 000 - 800 000 Garrison Troops
5 000- 20 000 Weapons Teams
5 000- 20 000 Armed Transports

Garrison Armies are unlikely to be seen in any game, but could be found on densely populated planets occupied by a high militancy government away from the frontlines. Most other governments would keep smaller garrisons.


Line Infantry
Line Infantry Formations come in two varieties; generalists, and those specialized for 1 or 2 terrain features (Mountain/Jungle is always popular). While modern day thinking would consider forces specialized to fight, for example, in the mountains as a special force unit, I'm fairly arbitrarily making a distinction here between 'line units with special training' and 'special forces.'

Line Infantry Company
HQ 1250
80 - 140 Line Infantry
8 - 14 Weapons Teams (at least half with AP, remainder mixed anti vehicle and anti air)
8 - 14 Armed Transports (Mix)

I am presuming a mix of 10 Line Infantry, a Weapons Team and an Armed Transport as a basic unit, giving a range of 86-102 as its size.

Line Infantry Battalion
HQ 5000
320 - 560 Line Infantry
32 - 56 Weapons Teams
32 - 56 Armed Transports
1 Forward Observer

Line Infantry Regiment (Artillery heavy)
HQ 20k
960 - 1680 Line Infantry
96 - 168 Weapons Teams
96 - 168 Armed Transports
3 Forward Observers
Attached Artillery Company

Line Infantry Regiment (Artillery light)
HQ 20k
1280 - 2240 Line Infantry
128 - 224 Weapons Teams
128 - 224 Armed Transport
3 Forward Observers

Line Infantry Division
HQ 50k
2000 - 3000 Line Infantry
200 - 300 Weapons Teams
200 - 300 Armed Transports
5 - 8 Forward Observers
Attached Artillery Company
Potential attached heavier artillery battery (4 - 12 Vehicle/Static Medium Bombardment assets)

Generally no heavier Formations than this will be expected to operate independently, such formations are likely to be more ad hoc, attaching Division and lower units to an existing core of a high ranking HQ, it's immediate security and its own support assets, including heavy weaponry formations.

Motorised Artillery Company (Size about 950 max)
HQ 1250
40 Garrison Troops/Line Infantry (Security section)
4 Weapons Teams (2 anti personnel, 1 anti vehicle, 1 anti air)
12 - 18 Weapons Teams Bombardment
10 - 13 Armoured Transports (Mix of anti personnel, anti vehicle, anti air, auto cannon.)

Mechanized Artillery Company (Size about 1200 max)
HQ 1250
40 Garrison Troops/Line Infantry (Security section)
4 Weapons Teams (2 anti personnel, 1 anti vehicle, 1 anti air)
8 Armoured Transports (Mix of anti personnel, anti vehicle, anti air, autocannon)
14 - 22 Armoured Transport (Light Bombardment)

Special Forces
Special Forces are unusual for two reasons; for one, they are always specialized in some way and have access to the equipment to cope well in such circumstances. For another, Special Forces Formations are designed around much heavier firepower and expect access to even more when necessary. And for good reason, they usually get stuck with the worst jobs in the worst places.

Special Forces Company
HQ 1250
1 - 2 Forward Observer
80 Special Forces (Personal Weapon)
16 Special Forces Weapons Team (Mix)
16 Armed Transport (Mix of anti personnel, anti vehicle, anti air and autocannon)

Yes, Special Forces get Forward Observers at the lowest level that can be depicted in Aurora.

Special Forces Battalion
HQ 5000
4-8 Forward Observer
240 - 320 Special Forces (Personal Weapon)
48 - 64 Special Forces Weapons Team
48 - 64 Armed Transport
Attached Artillery Battery (4-12 guns)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 13, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
Those are good generic templates for Player Race.

For Conventional granularity, I disagree with Hazard - while it would be use of in only niche cases, it would still be quite useful if it's not too much work. There is, after all, quite a difference between the steel plates of WW2 tanks and the specialized & reactive armour of modern MBTs.

I will not put in model numbers, as that would be pointless.

American vehicles:
M1 Abrams
Vehicle
Medium armor
Medium Anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

M2 Bradley IFV
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Auto-cannon

M3 Bradley Scout
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-vehicle

M270 MRLS
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

M109 Paladin
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot use

M4 Bradley Battlefield Command Post
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

M6 Bradley Linebacker
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-aircraft

M7 Bradley FIST-V
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

M1 Assault Breacher
Medium vehicle
Medium armour
Construction equipment
Crew-served Anti-personnel / or no second slot usage if this makes no sense due to Aurora mechanics

British vehicles:
Challenger 2 MBT
Medium vehicle
Medium armor
Medium anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

AS-90 L131
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot used

FV107 Scimitar IFV
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light autocannon

Stormer HVM
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Antiaircraft

FV105 Sultan
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

FV103 Spartan
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light anti-vehicle

FV433 Abbot
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

FV514 Warrior
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

CRARRV
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Construction equipment
No second slot used

German vehicles:
Leopard 2 MBT
Medium vehicle
Medium armor
Medium Anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

Puma IFV
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Autocannon

PzH 2000
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot used

MARS 2 MLRS
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

Wiesel 2 Ozelot
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Antiaircraft

Wiesel 2 ATM HOT
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-vehicle

Wiesel 2 Befehlsttelle
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

Wiesel 2 JFST
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

WISENT 2
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Construction equipment
No second slot used

Russian vehicles:
T-14 Armata
Medium vehicle
Medum armor
Medium Anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

BMPT Terminator
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Autocannon

2S5 Giantsin
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot used

BM-27 Uragan
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

Pantsir S-1
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Antiaircraft

Kurganets-25
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-vehicle

Bumerang
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

SBA-60K2 Bulat
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

IMR-2
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Construction equipment
No second slot used

Chinese vehicles:
Type 99
Medium vehicle
Medum armor
Medium Anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

Type 04
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Autocannon

Type 05
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot used

Type 82
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

Type 92
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Antiaircraft

Type 89
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-vehicle

Type 08
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

Type 85
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

Type 59
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Construction equipment
No second slot used

Japanese vehicles: -confusingly both China and Japan use the  Type XY scheme. I don't know if using the alternative Chinese method would make things any easier.
Type 10
Vehicle
Medium armor
Medium Anti-vehicle
Crew-served Anti-personnel

Type 89
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Auto-cannon

Type 87
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-vehicle

M270 MRLS (not a typo, even though it's built under licence in Japan, they call it M270 too)
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light bombardment

Type 99
Medium vehicle
Light armour
Medium bombardment
No second slot use

Type 82
Light vehicle
Light armour
Headquarters - Size 1250

Type 87
Light vehicle
Light armour
Light Anti-aircraft

Type 99/73
Light vehicle
Light armour
Forward Fire Direction

Type 92/91
Medium vehicle
Medium armour
Construction equipment
No second slot used

I'll keep updating this list with other nations as time goes by. Formation compositions will be in another post.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Tree on July 13, 2018, 07:42:33 AM
There shouldn't be more than one type of conventional. I don't think transdimensional railgun rounds would be any less effective against modern armor than WW2 armor.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 13, 2018, 10:52:13 AM
There shouldn't be more than one type of conventional. I don't think transdimensional railgun rounds would be any less effective against modern armor than WW2 armor.

They would be equally effective given the huge difference in TN vs conventional. I think this is more that there should be some differences for conventional vs conventional.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 13, 2018, 11:57:10 AM
Because TN tech is such a leap forward over Conventional technology and because Conventional tech is something you will leave behind as fast as possible even on a Conventional start there's really no point to it.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 14, 2018, 08:02:35 PM
Right, let me take a shot at vehicles.

Vehicles

Before we get started on statting out the various vehicles, something very important has to be realized; vehicles have much more options than infantry does, and not all of them are freely available from the start. There are 5 different potential options for vehicles, and while I expect Heavy Vehicle to be available from the start along with Light and (medium) Vehicle, Super and Ultra Heavy are IIRC research locked. It doesn't help that there's a variable amount of options for both the components and the armours, although the armours at least don't impact the Size of the unit. On the other hand, there's also a variation on how many components can be chosen. This makes determining Formation Size much harder.

As such, while for the Infantry it was possible to stat everything as a rule of thumb that applied on basically all tech levels, it's probably best to consider different levels of technological sophistication and their impact on formation structure. An armour unit from the early fission era will likely have a vastly different force structure from one in the antimatter era. I am deliberately not using Light Vehicles in this listing; those are described under the Infantry section.

Early TN-tech
Tank
Vehicle or Heavy Vehicle (Size 18 or 36)
Medium or Heavy Vehicle Armour, using the heaviest available. (AR4 or AR6)
Weaponslot 1: Medium Anti Vehicle or Heavy Anti Vehicle (Size 32 or 48)
Weaponslot 2: Heavy Crew Served Anti Personnel or Light Autocannon (Size 20 or 24)

Tanks are unlikely to see much change throughout the changing field of battle, but they will adapt over time. The task of the modern tank is simple; to find any enemy armoured vehicle and kill it, while also supporting the infantry. The advent of Super Heavy and Ultra Heavy vehicles, their thick armour and the possibility of that armour being backed by shields as well as their vast supply of weapons will diminish the prominence of the tank but not remove it entirely. Such vehicles will simply be too expensive to be fielded in such numbers that the tank will be replaced.

Fire Support Vehicle
Vehicle (Size 18)
Light or Medium Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Light Autocannon (Size 24)
Weaponslot 2: Light Autocannon (Size 24)
Cheaper, smaller, faster, still hard hitting. Although no replacement for an actual tank, the volume of fire offered by the light autocannon offers excellent protection from infantry assault and lightly armoured enemy vehicles.

Dedicated AA
Vehicle (Size 18)
Light Vehicle Armour or Medium Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Light AA or Medium AA (Size 20/40)
Weaponslot 2: Light AA, Medium AA or Light Autocannon (Size 20/40/24)
Anti Air is a critical combat role on the battlefield when loss of air control can mean your units are detected and engaged with impunity. Anti Air units are not really supposed to be caught by ground units, but gun based AA units are often capable of it and a little better armoured as a result. Although their shells are too small to threaten well armoured enemies, the sheer volume of fire shreds infantry formations. This is why the second Weaponslot has the option for Light Autocannon, to represent turning the gun to engage ground targets. AA units equipped with Medium AA in slot 1 will have either Medium or Light AA in slot 2.

Mechanized Artillery
Vehicle (Size 18) or Heavy Vehicle (Size 36)
Light Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Light Bombardment, Medium Bombardment, Heavy Bombardment (Size 20, 40, 60)
Weaponslot 2: Same as 1
Artillery remains an important component of battle even in a time and place where so many supermaterials are discovered. As artillery is meant to stay well back of engagement armour is light, but the impact is anything but. Artillery barrages are of limited use against anything but infantry and vehicles with the thinnest armour, and even for that you need fairly heavy bombardment assets, but as at this time most infantry is poorly armoured if armoured at all most artillery assets will use Light and Medium Bombardment.

Forward Observation Vehicle
Vehicle (Size 18)
Light Vehicle Armour or Medium Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Forward Fire Direction (Size 60)
Weaponslot 2: Heavy Crew Served Antipersonnel or Light Autocannon (Size 20/24)
Expecting heavier incoming fire due to being part of armoured formations it's necessary for a heavier fire direction option to call the shots.

Non-Combat Vehicles
An important subsection that is not likely to change much as technology develops. All units in this section are not supposed to get into a fight, and instead are kept well back in entirely separate units.

Survey Vehicle
Vehicle (Size 18)
Light Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Geosurvey Equipment (Size 100)
Weaponslot 2: Geosurvey Equipment (Size 100)
Big, ungainly, staffed by civilians and luxurious by most military standards, Survey Vehicles are moved around the galaxy to follow up on spaceborne scans. Planets are big, so these vehicles are often deployed in large numbers.

Construction Vehicle
Vehicle (Size 18)
Light Vehicle Armour or Medium Vehicle Armour
Weaponslot 1: Construction Equipment (size 150)
Weaponslot 2: Construction Equipment (Size 150)
Staffed by engineering crews these are not nearly as roomy as their size would imply. There's just too much equipment. Most of these vehicles are unarmoured beyond their environmental sealing, but some are hauled around as part of the support equipment of a military formation and as such can expect to face incoming fire. The latter vehicles therefore are better armoured.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: QuakeIV on July 14, 2018, 11:00:42 PM
This brings out a thought, I'm really appreciating the idea of a huge formation of troops I can control as one big unit, instead of having to deal with fifty billion tiny garrison units.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on July 15, 2018, 03:14:26 AM
There is nothing preventing you from shoving 999 500 light personal weapon equipped infantry onto a 4M headquarters unit and call that a guard force.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: QuakeIV on July 15, 2018, 02:57:13 PM
I know, its amazing!
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 15, 2018, 03:31:40 PM
There is nothing preventing you from shoving 999 500 light personal weapon equipped infantry onto a 4M headquarters unit and call that a guard force.

And at the opposite extreme, you could create a single squad of space marines for boarding actions :)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Bremen on July 15, 2018, 04:36:56 PM
If we're allowed to venture away from real world units (while I'm familiar with the basics, I don't really know real world military organization well enough to guess on the actual formations), how about some theorycrafting?

I haven't seen the exact mechanics of bombardment or anti-aircraft weapons yet so I'm leaving those out for now.

Garrison units

Infantry and static both have the highest fortification values, so I feel they're naturals as garrison units. Additionally I feel low armor works well for garrisons; since it's a multiplier to the price, one of the biggest advantages of heavy armor is that it lets you fit more combat power in the same transport tonnage, and you can probably get away with bulkier garrisons than assault units since you have the time for multiple transport runs(or not, if the colony in question has its own ground force training facilities).

Rifle Infantry: Infantry, Light Infantry Armor, Personal Weapons
Size: 5 Armor: 10 HP: 10
AP: 10 Damage: 10  Shots: 1
I'm not a fan of the light personal weapons. From the stats, they seem to only really be practical when you have a tech advantage against other infantry or if you're trying to cram as many bodies as possible in as ablative armor.

Heavy Machinegun Team: Infantry, Light Infantry Armor, Heavy Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 20 Armor: 10 HP: 10
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
Despite the name, it's not really intended as anti-infantry; pound for pound (or rather cost for cost), the rifle infantry is better against anything with Armor 10. The heavier weapon instead works better against either armored infantry or light vehicles. Compared to a Light anti-vehicle it performs much better against infantry and slightly better against light vehicles while only being 25% larger, which I think is a good tradeoff. Against anything bigger than a light vehicle static units are really the only efficient option, anyways.

Heavy Anti-Tank Gun: Static, Light Static Armor, Heavy Anti-Vehicle
Size: 60 Armor: 10 HP: 30
AP: 60 Damage: 60 Shots: 1
Basically just the biggest anti-vehicle gun one can put on a static, for shooting vehicles and heavy vehicles, not to mention hopefully scoring a lucky hit if the attackers have super or ultra heavy tanks. Actually by my math it's still a 1 in 16 chance to kill if it hits an equal tech ultra heavy, which isn't bad considering how much they'll probably cost.

Command Bunker: Static, Heavy Static Armor, Headquarters Size 10,000
Size: 262 Armor: 30 HP: 30
HQ
The only exception to my plans of minimal armor garrison units, since it might save the HQ from an unlucky shot.

Missile Defense Installation: Static, Light Static Armor, CIWS
Size: ?? Armor: 10 HP: 30
CIWS
Just a support unit to help make sure the enemies in orbit don't decide to shortcut the invasion phase by using missiles against your ground forces.

Planetary Defense Laser Bunker: Static, Light Static Armor, STO
Size: ?? Armor: 10 HP: 30
Largest available STO weapon
As above, a weapon to prevent ships from sitting in orbit and bombing the planet. After thinking about it I favor a few big lasers instead of more efficient smaller ones; given enemy ships in orbit can come and go whenever they want, you probably can't plan on sandpapering down armor and will have to rely on the penetrating power of large lasers and shock damage.

Formations:
Planetary Garrison Division
987 Rifle Infantry (4935 size)
150 Heavy Machinegun Teams (3000 size)
30 Heavy Anti-Tank Guns (1800 size)
Command Bunker (262 size)
Total: 9,997
Basically just a conveniently sized package to drop on colonies to defend against enemy ground forces. Lots of machineguns, since as I'll get to later I expect assault units to be heavier on light vehicles than infantry.

Orbital Defense Division
???
Command Bunker (262 size)
Just the same thing with a mix of CIWS and STO units, with numbers depending on their size. A minimum garrison would then be one garrison division and one orbital defense division, with more being added as the colony grows and based on the perceived likelihood of bombardment vs invasion.


Assault Units

Mechanically, hit modifier works sort of like a fortification that doesn't need to build up, so I see it being much more useful for assault units. Static units, with a 1.0 hit modifier, are therefor horrible on the assault (as they should be), whereas light vehicles with .4 are a unit that I think will make excellent "mainline" assault units, probably supported by heavier tanks and possibly infantry (which have decent hit modifiers and fortification levels).

Mobile Combat Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 24 Armor: 20 HP: 30
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
While technically infantry has power armor options, I plan on flavoring my light vehicles as in the grey area between power armor and light mechs, sort of like Battletech Elementals. The Mobile Combat Suit's main purpose is to deal with the hordes of infantry I expect will be used for garrisons on a hopefully somewhat cost effective basis.

Heavy Weapon Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Heavy Crew Served Anti-Personnel
Size: 32 Armor: 20 Hp: 30
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
A slightly larger suit that can deal well against either enemy light vehicles or infantry with heavy armor/a tech advantage.

Scout Suit: Light Vehicle, Light Vehicle Armor, Forward Fire Direction
Size: 72 Armor: 20 HP: 30
FFD
I definitely expect my ground units to give support from orbital bombardment, so they'll want some FFD units. I think putting them on a light vehicle is a good combination of low cost and defense thanks to the hit modifier.

Combat Tank: Vehicle, Medium Vehicle Armor, Medium Anti-Vehicle
Size: 50 Armor: 40 HP: 40
AP: 40 Damage: 60 Shots: 1
I'm a bit wary of heavy vehicles against an equal tech foe since their stats line up so perfectly against the heavy anti-vehicle gun that will probably be pretty common with static units. That combined with their lower hit modifier means I think medium tanks might be the way to go on assault (at least until you have super/ultra heavy), with heavies maybe being better suited to defense if you want something beefier than garrison infantry. This tank remains pretty durable against most weapons while being a decent threat to even heavy vehicles (about 44% chance of a successful kill on a hit).

Assault Titan: Ultra Heavy Vehicle, Ultra-Heavy Vehicle Armor, 2x Super-Heavy Anti-Vehicle, 2x Crew Served AP
Size: 400 Armor: 120 HP: 240
AP: 90 Damage: 90 Shots: 2
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 12
Super Heavy and Ultra Heavy units don't seem particularly more effective on the offense, but they are extremely powerful (and expensive) for their transportation size, so that probably makes them a natural for assault units where you only have so much troop transport capability. I admit I picked the guns on this one mostly so the size would add up to an even number.

Command Titan:  Ultra Heavy Vehicle, Ultra-Heavy Vehicle Armor, Headquarters Size 10k, Crew Served AP, Heavy Crew Served AP
Size: 498 Armor: 120 HP: 240
AP: 10 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
AP: 20 Damage: 10 Shots: 6
Replace with Heavy or Super Heavy as necessary, but when the HQ unit is already really big I think it makes sense to put it on the biggest chassis available.

Formations:
Mobile Suit Division
200 Mobile Combat Suits (4800 size)
100 Heavy Weapon Suits (3200 size)
24 Combat Tanks (1200 size)
4 Scout Suits (288 size)
Command Titan (498 size)
Total: 9,986 size
What I expect to use as a basic assault unit. It has a definite focus on killing infantry and static, but that's what I expect most low cost garrisons to be. I figure since if I'm invading a planet I probably have a fleet in orbit they probably don't need STO support, either.

Heavy Assault Division
250 Mobile Combat Suits (6000 size)
8 Assault Titans (3200 size)
4 Scout Suits (288 size)
Command Titan (498 size)
Total: 9,986 size
A more expensive assault unit using the ultra-heavy tanks. Also more mobile combat suits to provide cover, since as armored as they are I think even ultra-heavy vehicles will go down fast if everything targets them.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Deutschbag on July 18, 2018, 11:32:11 PM
I wonder if it might be possible for Steve to release the ground-unit creator as a standalone app? Or for someone to create one and put one online? I could probably do the latter, given some time, if there's interest.

Wouldn't have much actual utility, perhaps, but it might be fun to play around with :)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Panopticon on July 20, 2018, 01:28:42 AM
Come to think of it, all the various unit design systems could be fun standalone apps.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Viridia on July 24, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
Come to think of it, all the various unit design systems could be fun standalone apps.

This is something I personally would love. The ship design is one of my favourite aspects, and if it could be used as a standalone app, I'd happily design vessels I use in my Nationstates account through it, because it covers so much.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 25, 2018, 12:41:53 PM
Conventional tech is something you will leave behind as fast as possible even on a Conventional start there's really no point to it.
I disagree. One reason to move away from Conventional tech ASAP is that there is little reason to stick to it. However, with multiple player races starting on Earth, each modelled after a real nation or power bloc, little granularity would be useful. Yes, it would be a very niche case, but if it is simple and quick for Steve to add in, then yes please, it would satisfy me and others who exclusive do Conventional starts and focus on early tech stuff as much as possible.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Father Tim on July 25, 2018, 01:00:38 PM
Something as simple as a repeatable, stacking "+20% to Conventional Armour/Ground Unit Strength" tech line -- like Empire Economy has now -- would make me happy.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Bremen on July 25, 2018, 03:19:50 PM
Something as simple as a repeatable, stacking "+20% to Conventional Armour/Ground Unit Strength" tech line -- like Empire Economy has now -- would make me happy.

You mean for non-TNE ground units? Because as I understand it armor and weapon techs are already going to benefit ground units.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Father Tim on July 26, 2018, 12:03:20 AM
Yes, for Conventional non-TNE ground forces.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on July 26, 2018, 02:57:09 AM
Added Germany and Russia to the earlier list.

If someone wants to add more countries, feel free to use the examples on how to do it. Would be really useful to get countries like China and Japan, at least.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Wolf359 on July 27, 2018, 12:55:33 PM
I think you're putting the horse before the cart.

Determine the missions first.  Design equipment and force structures to be capable and feasible to accomplish those missions given the game's potential environments and circumstances.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: DIT_grue on July 28, 2018, 01:26:08 AM
I think you're putting the horse before the cart.

Bit of a typo there - you wrote the truth, being the reverse of the common proverb you were trying to use.  ::)

I admit to being bemused that multiple people are acting so determinedly oblivious to Garfunkel's goal. Why is "a multi-faction earth conventional start using the closest available simulation of present day populations and military forces" objectionable enough that it must be ignored, including attempts to hijack the thread for mundane design-in-a-vacuum work instead? Especially since it seems a fairly common project, judging by the fiction forum.

(I mean, I don't care enough to put in this sort of work, but I'd be glad to use such templates if they were easily available.)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 28, 2018, 04:38:05 AM
Cross posted from Changes Log

Conventional Armour

The new ground combat rules provide the opportunity to simulate current ground forces, such as tanks, artillery, etc. However, the single conventional armour tech does not provide any granularity to show the different between different generations of armour. Therefore the current Conventional Armour tech is replaced by three new techs. I have also slightly reduced the capability of Duranium Armour and increased the research cost to create a more graduated progression and give conventional forces some chance against the first generation of TN vehicles.

High Density Duranium and above remain the same. Duranium Armour becomes available, regardless of current armour tech, once Trans-Newtonian Technology is researched.

Here are the first six armour techs as they now stand:

(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/ArmourGenerations.PNG)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on September 29, 2018, 12:16:58 PM
I've updated the existing 3 country equipment lists with second slot use as well as armour. Suggestions to improve them would be welcome!

Working on Chinese and Japanese lists now, then I'll probably start figuring out formations.

Added Chinese and Japanese vehicles.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 01, 2018, 10:11:02 AM
Formations - NATO/West

While it would be possible to get into extreme detail with formations, I don't think it serves any purpose. All NATO countries and most Western countries, use roughly similar OOBs and TOEs. Whether a German battalion has two more snipers and one less mortar than an American battalion, is not much of a difference. And I don't think it ruins the immersion of anyone if there are tiny imperfections. As always, if you have more accurate information, do share! I'll make a separate post for Russian/Chinese formations as these are actually quite different. I'll use company as the smallest unit - again, the new ground combat model supports down to individual troopers but I don't have the time or patience to list every possible squad in every modern military.

Note that I am leaving out all HQ functions at Company level. It's probably best to keep using Battalion as the smallest manoeuvre formation. For this example, I'll be using American vehicle names. For British and German units, just replace the vehicle names and you're fine. All "infantry: personal weapons" are in addition to vehicle/gun crews.

Tank Company
14 M1 Abrams
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
2 supply vehicles

Mechanized Rifle Company
14 M2 Bradley IFV
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
81 infantry: personal weapons
2 supply vehicles

Artillery Battery
2 M7 Bradley FIST-V
5 supply vehicles
8 infantry: light bombardment (there are 8 towed 105mm guns, I can't think of a better way to describe them)

for mechanized version, replace i:lb with either M270 MRLS or M109 Paladin, number remains same.

Recon Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment (this is a 60mm mortar towed by a jeep and its crew)
48 infantry: personal weapons
6 infantry: light personal weapons (snipers and scouts)
1 supply vehicle

Weapons Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
2 M2 Bradley IFV
4 M3 Bradley Scout
64 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle

Engineer Company
10 M1 Assault Breacher (yes, these are only for Armoured Engineer companies but it's best to just use these for all as Construction Equipment cannot be carried by Light Vehicles)
48 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle

Infantry Company -I think these only exist for Reserve units nowadays.
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment
3 infantry: crew-served anti-personnel
3 infantry: light anti-vehicle
90 infantry: personal weapons
1 supply vehicle



This is how US Army organizes itself nowadays and all NATO armies are either doing the same or planning to do the same in near future.

Combined Arms Battalion
2 Mechanized Infantry Companies
2 Tank Companies
2 M4 Bradley Battlefield Command Post
8 supply vehicles

Field Artillery Battalion
3 Artillery Batteries
2 M4 Bradley Battlefield Command Post
15 supply vehicles

Brigade Support Battalion
1 Weapons Company
1 Recon Company
1 Engineer Company
6 supply vehicles



Brigade Combat Team -old Heavy/Light brigades are gone and it makes no sense to differentiate between armoured and Stryker BCTs in Aurora context. So these would be Panzerbrigades in Netherlands/Germany and so on.
3 Combined Arms Battalions
1 Field Artillery Battalion
1 Brigade Support Battalion
This level requires a bigger HQ than the standard shown in vehicles list. I can't really determine what size until game is out.

I won't include generic divisions here because each country handles them differently.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on October 01, 2018, 03:22:17 PM
Artillery Battery
2 M7 Bradley FIST-V
5 supply vehicles
8 infantry: light bombardment (there are 8 towed 105mm guns, I can't think of a better way to describe them)

Use Static units with Medium Bombardment instead. 105mm artillery is actually pretty hefty and immobile.

Recon Company
1 M7 Bradley FIST-V
1 infantry: light bombardment (this is a 60mm mortar towed by a jeep and its crew)
48 infantry: personal weapons
6 infantry: light personal weapons (snipers and scouts)
1 supply vehicle

Light Vehicle based bombardment would probably be more accurate.
Also, snipers tend to use relatively hard hitting weapons, even if they are often single shot semi-automatic guns. While it's understandable you want to model it with Light Personal Weapons, I feel that would be better to conceptually attach to pistols and other small guns that can be fired single handed without issue.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 01, 2018, 03:40:14 PM
If Static units are allowed to move with infantry, then yes that's a sensible change. There is far less of a difference in firepower between 60/81mm mortars and a 105/155mm howitzers.

For the snipers & scouts, I was struggling with that. I choice LPW to make them separate from the regular infantry because they lack the light machine guns and grenade launchers that the regular infantry has to augment their rifles. It doesn't really make much of a difference since it's such a small component, the 6 lads could be folded into the 48 anyway.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on October 01, 2018, 04:01:14 PM
Although there may not be much of a difference in shell charge between 60 and 81mm mortars and 105mm howitzers, there's a major difference with 155mm howitzers, and the 105mm howitzer has substantially more range than the mortars.

And the 155mm howitzer has greater range still.

You could stick with Static: Light Bombardment to model the 105mm howitzers instead though.

The real deal breaker here is that Light Bombardment units aren't allowed to provide supporting fire off the Front Line, nor can they provide counter battery.



As for the snipers and scouts; they don't have light machine guns and grenade launchers because if they need those something has gone drastically wrong. Their job isn't to do assault, their job is find the enemy, pick off stragglers, pressure the enemy by being a constant hard to find and defend against threat and to call the guys with actual assault weapons (like the rest of the company) to perform the assaults while they make the lives of anybody trying to coordinate the defense short.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 01, 2018, 09:20:11 PM
Oh sorry, I worded that really poorly. I meant that there is a much smaller difference between 60mm and 81mm mortar, and a 105mm and 155mm howitzers than there is between mortars and howitzers. So yes, 8 Static Units with Medium bombardment would suit to depict the 105mm howitzers, if they can move with infantry.

Quote
Their job isn't to do assault, their job is find the enemy, pick off stragglers, pressure the enemy by being a constant hard to find and defend against threat and to call the guys with actual assault weapons (like the rest of the company) to perform the assaults while they make the lives of anybody trying to coordinate the defense short.
Yes, I am fully aware of the real world reasons why infantry and recon companies have snipers in them. Aurora, however, does not model any of that. So the choice is between modeling snipers and scouts separately from regular infantry with LPW or not. I initially chose to have them separate and equipped with LPW because they lack the support weapons that regular infantry have, which I assume are built into the "personal weapons" but not into the "light personal weapons" since two such categories exist. But in the end, it's a really minuscule thing either way and it probably won't hurt anyone's immersion whether they are separate with LPW or folded into the regular infantry with PW.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: mtm84 on October 02, 2018, 02:32:36 AM
If anyone wants some 20th century layouts for fun/role-play value, http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm has some great information on a variety of countries, though it is a little hard to navigate around.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Person012345 on October 02, 2018, 02:35:35 AM
If anyone wants some 20th century layouts for fun/role-play value, http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm has some great information on a variety of countries, though it is a little hard to navigate around.
Might be useful, I intend to make my next game WWII themed, I don't know how historically accurate I will go though.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: backstab on October 02, 2018, 01:43:22 PM
60mm mortars aren’t towed by jeeps ... they are normally man portable
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 03, 2018, 03:54:39 PM
Well, you better tell that to the US Army then, because the official TO&E for a Recon Company assigns a Humvee to the mortar squad.  ;D

But seriously, yes a 60mm mortar is man-portable, just like an 81mm mortar is, and a .50 cal / 12.7mm machine gun is or a SPIKE ATGM or an Igla or many other weapon systems. Man-portable in this context means that you can deploy and transport the weapon short distances by muscle power. It doesn't mean that the weapon is so light that it requires no other transportation methods. Outside of special circumstances, all modern militaries use vehicles for transportation as much as possible. It makes operational mobility far better and saves stamina for actual combat situations.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on October 03, 2018, 04:16:48 PM
Well, you better tell that to the US Army then, because the official TO&E for a Recon Company assigns a Humvee to the mortar squad.  ;D

But seriously, yes a 60mm mortar is man-portable, just like an 81mm mortar is, and a .50 cal / 12.7mm machine gun is or a SPIKE ATGM or an Igla or many other weapon systems. Man-portable in this context means that you can deploy and transport the weapon short distances by muscle power. It doesn't mean that the weapon is so light that it requires no other transportation methods. Outside of special circumstances, all modern militaries use vehicles for transportation as much as possible. It makes operational mobility far better and saves stamina for actual combat situations.

I agree... I also think that the new combat model completely abstract things such as trucks or other non armoured means of transportation. I don't think a Static Heavy artillery is bolted to the ground and immovable.

The size and cost of units also include basic transportation... which also goes for tanks and other armoured vehicles. You don't drive tanks to theatres of operations and planets tend to be pretty big places.  ;)
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 03, 2018, 04:35:43 PM
Russian formations -these are valid for the mid-2000s after the big reorganizations that happened in the 1990s. If someone has access to more up-to-date organizations, please share.

Putting in companies later when I find a reliable company level TO&E



Tank Battalion
4 Tank Companies
1 Bumerang

Motor Rifle Battalion
3 Motor Rifle Companies
1 Mortar Battery
1 Bumerang
1 Kurganets-25
1 Pantsir S-1

Artillery Battalion
3 Howitzer Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 SBA-60K2 Bulat
1 Supply vehicle

MLRS Battalion
3 MLRS Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 SBA-60K2 Bulat
1 Supply vehicle

AA Battalion
3 SAM Batteries
1 Bumerang
1 Supply vehicle



Tank Brigade
3 Tank Battalions
1 Motor Rifle Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 MLRS Battalion
1 AA Battalion
1 Recon Company
1 Engineer Company

Motor Rifle Brigade
1 Tank Battalion
3 Motor Rifle Battalions
2 Recon Companies
1 Artillery Battalion
1 MLRS Battalion
1 AA Battalion
1 Engineer Company
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on October 03, 2018, 04:52:13 PM
Just because 60mm mortars get a humvee assigned to the squad handling them doesn't mean the mortar is towed. More likely it's to provide the squad with some extra munition and mobility. After all, the mortar's big and heavy on its own, but the mortar shells themselves appear to start at several kilograms of weight each. A 4 or 5 member mortar squad won't exactly be lugging a lot of munitions around by themselves as a result.

Easier if you can stash, say, 5 dozen in the back of a lightly armoured vehicle while the rest of the squad hauls a dozen or so between them. If they have to carry it all themselves they'd be lucky to have as flak vest and pistols for their own protection because taking a rifle with munition would be too heavy with the shells.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 04, 2018, 12:33:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ln19Lf0.png)

It's the Israeli knock-off but you get the idea. Especially as these formations are Generic NATO/Western ones. The point is that the vehicle is not armed with the mortar, hence why I'm using infantry: light bombardment instead.



Chinese formations - note that this is what little is know of the new PLAGF brigade model. It seems that both Russians and Chinese are adopting the NATO model, though they are few steps behind.

Tank Company
10 Type 99
2 Supply vehicles

Mechanized Company
10 Type 04
2 Supply vehicles

Artillery Battery
6 Type 05
2 Supply vehicles

SAM Company
6 Type 92
2 Supply vehicles

Putting in other companies when I find reliable TO&E, the above are tentative only



Tank Battalion
3 Tank Companies
1 Type 08

Mechanized Battalion
4 Mechanized Companies
1 Type 08

Artillery Battalion
3 Artillery Batteries
1 Type 08

AA Battalion
3 SAM Companies
1 Type 08



Tank Brigade
4 Tank Battalions
1 Mechanized Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 AA Battalion

Mechanized Brigade
4 Mechanized Battalions
1 Tank Battalion
1 Artillery Battalion
1 AA Battalion

Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: backstab on October 04, 2018, 04:04:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ln19Lf0.png)

It's the Israeli knock-off but you get the idea. Especially as these formations are Generic NATO/Western ones. The point is that the vehicle is not armed with the mortar, hence why I'm using infantry: light bombardment instead.

[hr

That mortar in the picture isn’t a 60mm mortar ... looks more like an 81 or 120 ... totally understand that you didn’t mean mounted on ... it’s just that 60 mm mortars are normally given to light infantry companies and man packed every place ... hell , I’ve humped some of that stuff over a fair distance in my time in uniform ... nothing worse than getting stuck with the 50 cal receiver while your mate carries the barrel
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Father Tim on October 04, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
... nothing worse than getting stuck with the 50 cal receiver while your mate carries the barrel

Doesn't your mate carry two barrels for the Browning?
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: backstab on October 05, 2018, 02:19:59 AM
We had the whole section carringythe thing ... spare barrel, tripod, ammo ....
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Hazard on October 05, 2018, 04:56:03 AM
You don't want one guy carrying the only 2 barrels you've got anyway. It's one thing if you've got only 1, in which case the risk of point failure is impossible to avoid, but if you've got two?

Better to have 2 guys split the ammo between them and each carry a barrel instead of losing one to enemy action or an accident and have a useless gun.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Garfunkel on October 12, 2018, 03:18:38 PM
I can't seem to find any reliable company level TO&E for other Russian and Chinese formations, so for them it might just be best to use the equivalent NATO ones.

Steve, is the stuff I've made useful or would you like it to be in a different layout or format? Would it help if I made a list of currently active brigade level formations around the world? Or is there something else we can do to help with this part of the project?
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Steve Walmsley on October 12, 2018, 04:59:37 PM
I can't seem to find any reliable company level TO&E for other Russian and Chinese formations, so for them it might just be best to use the equivalent NATO ones.

Steve, is the stuff I've made useful or would you like it to be in a different layout or format? Would it help if I made a list of currently active brigade level formations around the world? Or is there something else we can do to help with this part of the project?

I think what you have is fine. Once I start creating real world ground templates I will begin getting into this in more detail.

At work I have been doing some coding using JSON files to read complex hand histories for poker hands into a C# structure (which has been fun because in my job I don't get to be hands-on as often as I would like). This might be a good format for the type of open-ended constructs that ground formations entail. I could come up with a suitable JSON file format that players can create and Aurora can read straight into unit classes and formation templates.
Title: Re: Real World 21st Century Ground Unit Templates
Post by: Noble713 on November 05, 2018, 02:14:24 PM
Russian formations -these are valid for the mid-2000s after the big reorganizations that happened in the 1990s. If someone has access to more up-to-date organizations, please share.

This is still reasonably accurate for ~2018 Russian battalions/brigades. Here's the Defense Intelligence Agency's "Russian Military Power" doc from 2017, which talks about some of the recent organizational efforts: http://www.dia.mil/Portals/27/Documents/News/Military%20Power%20Publications/Russia%20Military%20Power%20Report%202017.pdf?ver=2017-06-28-144235-937
pgs51-56 have some brigade personnel number charts and text descriptions of Russia's reorganization post-2008 (the war with Georgia).

Quote
Putting in companies later when I find a reliable company level TO&E

Have you looked at FM 7-100.4 "Opposing Force Organization Guide"? Chapter 4 is what you want for Battalion/Company/Platoon info, I think...
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-100-4/fm7-100-4.pdf


Regarding Chinese TOE.....their military is constantly evolving. I've kept a pretty close eye on them (partly out of professional interest) and I can't keep track of how their brigades are structured half the time. The latest is their transition to "combined arms brigades", which is about 4 infantry battalions with a lot of supporting assets. They also maintain a small force of VERY large and robustly-equipped tank/mechanized divisions that don't seem to be downsizing to the brigade model. Lemme see what I can dig up from my bookmarks later.... Previously they were organized on the Russian/Soviet model so that's a decent stand-in in the absence of better information.