Author Topic: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier  (Read 980 times)

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Offline plasticpanzers

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Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« on: May 25, 2018, 03:27:13 AM »
Is it possible to create say a size 12 capital ship missile that doesn't need to go fast, has active sensors
that see about 175,000km and can launch a cluster of say 10 x S1 Anti-missile Missiles at mass missile
attacks?
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 06:14:34 AM »
Yes.  It is possible.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 10:38:42 PM »
Ah possible.... volunteers front and center... will tell you what happens.....
 

Online Garfunkel

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 11:39:21 PM »
It will either be extremely devastating. Or the separation distance will be too short and the carriers will be taken out by enemy AMMS.
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 11:42:05 AM »
the 914-meter-view is that a size 12 launcher throwing MIRV-AMMs cannot be as effective as a significantly smaller investment in size 1 launchers.   in some reasonable circumstances, a *single* size 1 launcher will perform better.

if youve got the size 12 launchers and discover your opponent has hella throw weight, i can see developing the mirv as a stopgap.   but at the ship-design stage it's a pretty tough sell, i think.
 

Offline Conscript Gary

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 08:09:11 PM »
Let's do some napkin math. A size 1 launcher needs reload rate 6 (59,000 RP) to fire one missile every increment. A size 12 bus that delivers ten missiles needs a reload rate of 8 (244,000 RP) to fire at an equivalent rate (slightly faster, 1 missile/4.5 seconds). The smaller launcher costs 9 wealth and 90 RP, the bigger costs 132 wealth and 1320 RP.

I'm trying to think of a use case where this MIRV would win out, and coming up short. I haven't played with any potential sensors for it but I imagine that getting the range for the resolution needed for that range might not be easy. The extra range of the bus is only really helpful if you detect incoming missiles farther than your AMMs can reach- in my experience adding excessive range to the missiles is easier than pushing out your detection range, and you'll be launching as soon as the contacts register. And even if the bus can match a single launcher for rate of fire, it does so by taking up 12 times the space- if the size 12 launcher competed on the basis of missiles per increment for an equivalent tonnage rather than a single launcher comparison, it would lose horrifically. Even at maximum launcher reload rate tech you're looking at 1 AMM/3s as opposed to 12/5.

The only sort of usage I could see maybe being practical is in a closing fight or in a pursuit where the combatant fleets are moving directly towards or away from one another, and the MIRVs are fired blind -on ballistic trajectories, so to speak- to catch any incoming salvos that happen to cross that line of space. Heavy use of sensor pickets might also make it workable.
 

Tim Loeb

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 09:31:07 PM »
My TFs operate with subgroups of 4 with BC, CA, and DD being supported by groups of 4 CLE and DE types.    I have plenty
of AMM strength in launchers but I have slipped a couple of 'Beehive' rounds to each larger S-9 and S-12 as a backup.   Just a
fun RP part from Weber/White books.   Have yet to have it tried tho. . . . . all my opponents in this first game that has actually
run for 61 game years are just scattered groups of bugs that get nowhere near my big ships.
 

Offline the obelisk

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 12:57:28 AM »
I'm trying to think of a use case where this MIRV would win out, and coming up short.
I suppose if you're already using missile ships with size 12 launchers, having a few of these might allow for a last ditch defence, in case your escorts run out of missiles, but unless you don't have colliers, it seems like it would just make more sense to bring more AMMs, and if you're really that worried about running out of AMMs, it seems like using beam escorts would be the better option over the MIRV.
 

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 03:21:44 AM »
I don't think there is any defensive rationale for them, but they might have an offensive application or two, if they match the range of his regular missiles and they get their second stage separation timing right they might work to overwhelm defensive fire if seeded into a normal salvo possibly. Might be more trouble than it's worth in practice but for RP purposes it could be decent.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 04:31:14 AM »
I don't think there is any defensive rationale for them, but they might have an offensive application or two, if they match the range of his regular missiles and they get their second stage separation timing right they might work to overwhelm defensive fire if seeded into a normal salvo possibly. Might be more trouble than it's worth in practice but for RP purposes it could be decent.

The missiles are a final defense for larger ships beside their CWIS.  They are a thought on dropping a missile with 8-10 size 1 AMM right in the face of an oncoming missile attack.  I have not had a
chance to try the idea yet (no real opponent has shown up in 75 game years).  They fit in the current launchers on CAs or BCs.  Couple per ship til I find out if they work.  I have plenty
of CLE and DE ships for missile defense but my BC and CA are all missile armed.   I have a separate S1 damage 3 close assault missile for my MIRV missiles and mines called Bandsaw.
 
 

Offline the obelisk

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 12:18:36 PM »
The missiles are a final defense for larger ships beside their CWIS.
So basically a defensive option in the event that your standard defenses fail?  I'm by no means an Aurora veteran but by the sound of things, it's not like it would be useless, but it wouldn't be anywhere approaching optimal.  I'm not great at number crunching Aurora stuff off the top of my head, but any defensive MIRVs you bring with you cost you space in the form of how much of the magazine they take up.  If you're looking for a something to use long term, but don't want to lower the number of large missile launchers on your BC and CA, I'm not sure if just using smaller magazines and adding more CWIS wouldn't be better (again though, I've got no idea on the math behind that).
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 10:40:16 PM »
Right now my CAs and BCs carry from 210-240 S-9 and S-12 missiles.   The S-9 Beehive and S-12 Waspnest only have a range of
about 11mk and there are only 2 missiles in each magazine at the moment till I can see their effect.   They give these larger ships
an additional final missile defense above and beyond their CWIS tho I fully depend upon my CLEs and DEs to protect my fleets with between
900-1100 S-1 missiles each and have had excellent results so far in several games with these layouts.  I don't expect them to defend the
fleet with these missiles but simply add additional close range AMM from ships who normally do not carry S-1 AMMs.   I am unsure about
their ability to clear minefields when fired in mass but that is another thing I will be watching for.   Sadly I cannot find an opponent whom I
can test these against.   The poor bugs get rolled over every time I meet them.
 

Offline Iranon

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 04:13:35 AM »
I see some use of it as a dual-purpose weapon: Works for AMM delivery, works to bypass enemy point defence.

Separation distance within 5s of the final stage for direct hits, millions if you want to bait enemy AMMs. For the former, I'd prefer a single large missile as the payload though.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Capital Ship Missile AMM carrier
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 10:13:25 AM »
I've used MIRV'd AMMs before. if you have the range to hit the separation range, then you can deliver larger AMM salvos with fewer launchers. Of course, your AMMs will need sensors.
 

 

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