Author Topic: Mine issue. Should this work?  (Read 657 times)

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Offline plasticpanzers

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Mine issue. Should this work?
« on: May 13, 2018, 03:23:57 AM »
I have used this design before and it has worked but I have several patterns of these around a warp
point and an enemy 65,000 construction ship is blissfully building away on it.   I have both Active and
EM sensor buoys at the point and around it too.  There are 18 of these on the point and 18 in a star
pattern at 5 waypoints around it at 160k.

Trapdoor M-15 Mine Buoy
Missile Size: 15 MSP  (0.75 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0.001     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
EM Sensor Strength: 3.3084    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3,308,400 km
Cost Per Missile: 18.6736
Second Stage: Banshee S-2 Mine Submunition x5
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 29 minutes   Overall Range: 55.6m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    8.7502x Tritanium   2.1195x Boronide   3.5334x Uridium   4.2705x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Barndoor B-15 Sensor Buoy
Missile Size: 15 MSP  (0.75 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 18.3672   Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 3,300,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 29.3877
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    11.0205x Boronide   18.3672x Uridium   Fuel x0

There is an EM sensor buoy very similar to the Barndoor at the WP too.

Trapdoors payload:  Banshee S2 Mine Munition
Missile Size: 2 MSP  (0.1 HS)     Warhead: 7    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 31500 km/s    Engine Endurance: 29 minutes   Range: 54.7m km
EM Sensor Strength: 0.045    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.6927
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 378%   3k km/s 120%   5k km/s 75.6%   10k km/s 37.8%
Materials Required:    1.75x Tritanium   0.027x Boronide   0.045x Uridium   0.8707x Gallicite   Fuel x500
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 03:44:27 AM by plasticpanzers »
 

Offline Father Tim

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 04:57:28 AM »
I have used this design before and it has worked but I have several patterns of these around a warp point and an enemy 65,000 construction ship is blissfully building away on it.   I have both Active and EM sensor buoys at the point and around it too.  There are 18 of these on the point and 18 in a star pattern at 5 waypoints around it at 160k.

Trapdoor M-15 Mine Buoy
Missile Size: 15 MSP  (0.75 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0.001     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
EM Sensor Strength: 3.3084    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  3,308,400 km
Cost Per Missile: 18.6736
Second Stage: Banshee S-2 Mine Submunition x5
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 29 minutes   Overall Range: 55.6m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    8.7502x Tritanium   2.1195x Boronide   3.5334x Uridium   4.2705x Gallicite   Fuel x2500

Barndoor B-15 Sensor Buoy
Missile Size: 15 MSP  (0.75 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 18.3672   Sensitivity Modifier: 180%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 3,300,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 29.3877
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    11.0205x Boronide   18.3672x Uridium   Fuel x0

There is an EM sensor buoy very similar to the Barndoor at the WP too.

Trapdoors payload:  Banshee S2 Mine Munition
Missile Size: 2 MSP  (0.1 HS)     Warhead: 7    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 31500 km/s    Engine Endurance: 29 minutes   Range: 54.7m km
EM Sensor Strength: 0.045    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.6927
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 378%   3k km/s 120%   5k km/s 75.6%   10k km/s 37.8%
Materials Required:    1.75x Tritanium   0.027x Boronide   0.045x Uridium   0.8707x Gallicite   Fuel x500

I don't really know, as it's been years since I've used mines and/or sensor buoys, but I'd say that's your problem right there.  I'm guessing the mines won't fire until the construction ship comes 10,000 km closer to one of your waypoints.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 07:36:24 PM »
I have 18 mines right on the warp point as well as a passive and active sensor bouy.   The other mines are laid in a
star pattern at 160k so that they will trigger when a target gets slightly closer.   The sensor buoys see for about 3mk
each and easily pick up the 60000+ ton construction ship but no mine has fired.  The ship passed thru one warp point and
built a gate on the mined point then went to another warp point and started building there and the mines there just ignored
the ship too, tho all mines and sensor buoys could see the ship.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 08:27:31 PM »
I think Father Tim is saying your mines won't fire until 150k range because of the separation range attribute.
 

Offline Bremen

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 08:46:00 PM »
I have 18 mines right on the warp point as well as a passive and active sensor bouy.   The other mines are laid in a
star pattern at 160k so that they will trigger when a target gets slightly closer.   The sensor buoys see for about 3mk
each and easily pick up the 60000+ ton construction ship but no mine has fired.  The ship passed thru one warp point and
built a gate on the mined point then went to another warp point and started building there and the mines there just ignored
the ship too, tho all mines and sensor buoys could see the ship.

If the ship finished a gate and then moved, you were probably using very long (1 day +) increments at the time. The ship probably moved to the other side of the mines launch distance in a single increment.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 11:02:58 PM »
smaller increments should not effect them.   I don't think mines would be usable at all if you had to play the
game in 30 second intervals.   Mines are supposed to protect where I am not.   During whatever time I was
not watching that particular WP they should have automatically fired and slowed the game immediately to
low increments.... just like when warships fire when a target is in range when your not there and they are
on Auto-fire.


Edit:  had 5 hostile DD size vessels move in thru all the active and passive sensors buoys and the sensors
on the mines.   did 30sec interval to see effect... they sailed to the warp point thru the mines and turned
around and sailed out thru them with no firing of the mines submunitions.

I had added a batch of new size 9 mines with Thermal sensors vs the EM ones on the size 15 mines.  no
difference and all the sensors on everything can see the hostile ships.

 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 11:19:50 PM by plasticpanzers »
 

Offline serger

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 12:31:04 AM »
BTW, you can use more short-ranged 2nd stage missiles for your mines. 54mkm - it's overdose of fuel, when your target cannot be at the distance more than 3,3mkm.

As for target lock - try to use both stages with active and verify if this enemy is an enemy at your foreign relations window.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2018, 12:47:57 AM »
entirely possible.   They were meant to be multi-use missiles, for some classes for close attack.  Unfortunately
none of my mines work.   My sensor buoys work great, as do the sensors on the mines.  but no boom.
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 06:59:49 AM »
Mines must be able to independently detect a target using onboard sensors. They will not act on information provided by the Barndoor Sensor Buoy.

Since the Trapdoors themselves are only equipped with a passive EM sensor and missile EM sensors only detect active Shields (and maybe populations) your Trapdoors probably never detected any of the invading ships.
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 03:28:44 AM »
The Trapdoor mine has its own Active Sensors and can see out to 1,400,000 km.   Since they are on the warp point and in
a circular ring about 170,000km from the warp point I can see no reason for them not to fire.   My TBMHAWKs use the same
sub-munition (Bandsaw S-1 WH3) and they worked fine.    One thing that keeps irking me no matter what range I want
secondary missiles to fire they always reset to 150,000km.   I have designed dozens in the game and even re-researched
them with a longer range firing but they ALL still reset to 150,000km
 

Offline plasticpanzers

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Re: Mine issue. Should this work?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2018, 03:27:44 AM »
New Trapdoor M-9 Mine and AS-9 Sensor Buoy and S-1 Bandsaw Close Assault Missile.... these mines worked... and I just zapped a neutral ship of another
race that I was making good diplomacy progress with.... ah....darn  :P.    Can we set somehow neutrals not to be attacked?  He tripped the primary layers of
the mines I placed on the warp point.   The outer layers did not engage (too far til he moved closer) 9 missiles per pattern x 3 patterns on WP x 5 Bandsaw x3 damage.
His defense fire (energy beam) picked off 4 Bandsaws.  The primary layer is designed to really discourage entry of another hostile race.

Trapdoor M-9 Mine Buoy
Missile Size: 9 MSP  (0.45 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 3.789   Sensitivity Modifier: 140%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 530,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 12.1953
Second Stage: Bandsaw A S-1 Close Assault Missile x5
Second Stage Separation Range: 150,000 km
Overall Endurance: 5 minutes   Overall Range: 8.4m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    3.75x Tritanium   2.4888x Boronide   4.149x Uridium   1.8075x Gallicite   Fuel x192.5

Development Cost for Project: 1220RP

Bandsaw S-1 Close Assault Missile (also used as teeth on my Survey Ships beside their S-1 AMMs)
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 3    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 11
Speed: 28000 km/s    Engine Endurance: 5 minutes   Range: 8.4m km
Active Sensor Strength: 0.072   Sensitivity Modifier: 140%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 10,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 1.2267
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 308%   3k km/s 99%   5k km/s 61.6%   10k km/s 30.8%
Materials Required:    0.75x Tritanium   0.0432x Boronide   0.072x Uridium   0.3615x Gallicite   Fuel x37.5

Development Cost for Project: 123RP

Hawkeye AS-9 Active Sensor Buoy (placed on and around in irregular pattern at different distances from warp point)
Missile Size: 9 MSP  (0.45 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s    Engine Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.0m km
Active Sensor Strength: 8.5266   Sensitivity Modifier: 140%
Resolution: 1    Maximum Range vs 50 ton object (or larger): 1,190,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 13.6422
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0%   3k km/s 0%   5k km/s 0%   10k km/s 0%
Materials Required:    5.1156x Boronide   8.5266x Uridium   Fuel x0

Development Cost for Project: 1364RP
 

 

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