Update on Progress

[Jovus]

I think 3) is fine as a 'good enough' solution. I have another proposal, however.

Just have the NPR believe the player. NPRs have complex logic behind which systems they will claim vs which they will not. Players get to make a choice. When a player claims a system, he's telling his NPR contactees, "Don't touch this system; I'm willing to go to war or provoke a diplomatic incident if you do." The why doesn't matter; if a player wants to use strong-arm diplomacy to try to control NPRs while eating the relationship penalties, that's his risk.

I understand the question isn't, "Why do players make claims?" but, "How do NPRs evaluate a response?" I suggest just taking the question of whether a player population already exists out of the calculus of how an NPR responds or not and just using the calculation you posted that involves relative military strength, etc.

Where existing populations vs not might come in is in the diplomatic impact of the claim. If an NPR doesn't know you have a population in-system already the relationship hit for claiming a system should be substantially greater, like twice as great. For that, you could easily just use the population as it actually exists.

[punchkid]

Option 3 definatly sounds like the best option imo.  And can be RPed as the NPR sending a small scout to check out the players claim.
A possibility would be for the claim to take a certain amount of time, maybe depending on the NPRs closest colony/fleet, to allow for the "scout" to get to the system to check it out.
But then you would need to deal with how the NPR handles the system in the time it takes for the demand to be processed. 
The more I think of it, all this is just unnecessary complications.

I think option 3 is fine.  Can always revisit at a later time if needed after playtesting more thoroughly.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Today was the day I hoped to release Aurora but, as I mentioned in the last few days, Diplomacy is taking longer to fully test than I hoped. I am pretty busy with work this week, so I am now going to aim for this weekend instead, but that isn't a hard date.

Giving the March date definitely concentrated my mind though and I managed to avoid getting distracted in the last few months. Otherwise, it may have taken considerably longer. Rather than give a firm date when will be finally done, I will try to issue daily updates over the next few days. What remains is testing the rest of Diplomacy, creating the install program and implementing obfuscation.

[Jovus]

Thanks for your hard work, Steve. As much as I'm sure we'll all be overjoyed to get our greedy little mitts on it, I'm also sorry for the circumstances that led to this latest spate of productivity. Here's hoping you can get on the road sooner rather than later.

[Garfunkel]

As others stated, option 3) sounds entirely reasonable for what is needed at the moment.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

As others stated, option 3) sounds entirely reasonable for what is needed at the moment.

Yes, that seems to be the consensus. I've implemented 3).

[Paul M]

Steve, there is a lot of sense in the whole "It is done when it is done, and release when it is ready" concept.  Take the time you need.

[QuakeIV]

I personally think if its reasonably ready to go, may as well release it and then continue working on it.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

I personally think if its reasonably ready to go, may as well release it and then continue working on it.

The problem is that it isn't ready to go. I am finding bugs as I work through Diplomacy. If I release now there will just be a lot of Diplomacy bugs and they won't be easy to track down. I need to work through it until every part of Diplomacy has been run successfully at least once.

[SpaceMarine]

We are all very eager to get our hands on the game as it has been so long, but if you say and I believe you that it is not ready to the standard you want then am sure people can respect that and will wait a little longer, we have waited so long already that a few more days wont be that hard.

[QuakeIV]

Apologies, I had meant that in the context of your previous statements that it wasn't ready yet.

I was responding to the contingency I have seen unfold in past communities where things are close to a preliminary release, people start saying 'take your time and keep working on it until its perfect' in hopes of a better end result, and then it just never ends up releasing.

[obsidian_green]

Another minor conundrum

In order for an NPR to accept your claim on a system, it must recognise that you have established a presence. This is defined as populations with a combined EM signature of 500 (about 4m pop with infrastructure).

I'm currently using the Alien Population intelligence as the basis for that, because every time an NPR (or a player) detects a alien population they will update the EM and Thermal signature of that population for the Alien Population record. So when an NPR is considering if your claim is worthy, it will use the latest information it has.

The problem arises when you have a population of the required size, but the NPR hasn't visited the system for a while so it doesn't know the population is large enough. You make a claim and it is immediately rejected on the basis you don't have an established presence. I am considering three options:

1) Leave as is. If the NPR isn't visiting the system, then whether you claim it or not doesn't matter. The downside here is that the next NPR visit might be a colony fleet, which changes the situation.
2) Allow players to pass information on their own colonies to NPRs (and add the same code to NPRs).
3) Use actual population data. This assumes that 2) is happening in the background. The downside to both 2) and 3) is that it assumes races believe each other

Tempted to use 3) as 1) could be frustrating and I think 2) adds an unnecessary step.

Late to the party.

Your decision to go with Option 3 seems most straightforward. If you revisit the diplomacy later you might reconsider Option 1, but implement a status/state of "pending" claims where the AI doesn't have to immediately accept or reject it, with muted effect on the hostility math. If an NPR flags a system due to a foreign claim, that could prompt the AI to scout the system, thus making NPRs behave more "lifelike". The arrival of a colony fleet might even be a FUN wrinkle for the player, but is there any reason the NPR couldn't cancel the order to colonize?

Is there a mechanism for player-factions or NPRs to rescind claims? Mechanics for NPRs backing down (here specifically, but wherever applicable in the diplomacy) might help limit wars between NPRs and give human players roleplay prompts to deescalate as well.

Release should come when you feel comfortable. Stay safe; be well.

[TMaekler]

The plans you have, Steve, adding more functions to the game after first release opens the question on DB compatibility. Will it be possible to keep a game running over a new version or will it be stuck to the version you started it in?

[pyrobit]

No worries Steve! I've been waiting for years now, and the guarantee of release in a few days -- even if it is an indeterminate guarantee -- is enough to make me really excited! I would put my two cents in and say that a craftsman could work on finishing a project forever; so the release of this first Aurora C# should be after Diplomacy is finished in its implementation (even if a really great idea comes up) in order to prevent perpetual delays. 

Fortunately, the time that I would otherwise spend on C# is now being spent on studying for finals, so I suppose i should thank you for the boon of better grades 

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

The plans you have, Steve, adding more functions to the game after first release opens the question on DB compatibility. Will it be possible to keep a game running over a new version or will it be stuck to the version you started it in?

It will depend on the changes. If they don't require DB updates, then games will still run.