Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Questions  (Read 11463 times)

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Offline Steve Walmsley

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2018, 04:55:07 AM »
That's not how Lagrange points work Zincat. It'd be easier to resolve by just not allowing the primary of star systems with multiple stars to be generated without at least 1 medium to high mass planet in orbit, unless the other star also has no planets.

Not entirely realistic, but at least in that case you can be fairly certain you can create a bridge between far outliers.
Except there is a Lagrange point, L1 between star A and B. This point will be closer to the star with less mass. Make it so an LP can be built on the Barycenter of the two stars (towards the more massive star) and you have a makeshift highway for two stars without planets, without needing to force the algorithim.

While that is scientifically correct, and there are other real-world Lagrange points as well, the only Lagrange points that exist in Aurora are the ones in following orbits, so any player-created ones will have exist within that constraint.
 

Offline MadHatter

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2018, 01:28:31 PM »
So will it be possible to jump from a Lagrange point to a normal jump point then, or will that increase connectivity too much?
 
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Offline Profugo Barbatus

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2018, 05:51:57 PM »
I don't believe you can currently jump from JP to system LP, you have to be at a LP to jump to another LP. Certainly, the auto pather doesn't go from JP directly to LP.
 

Offline DIT_grue

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2018, 02:13:17 AM »
While that is scientifically correct, and there are other real-world Lagrange points as well, the only Lagrange points that exist in Aurora are the ones in following orbits, so any player-created ones will have exist within that constraint.

And any point trailing the main star (in its galactic orbit) would be disregarded as useless even if it existed, but I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory explanation for why fusion suppresses a gravitational effect. So companion stars should be valid system bodies for the existence/creation of Lagrange Points as long as they fall within whatever mass requirements are specified.
 

Offline tobijon

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2018, 09:06:40 AM »
Wouldn't Legrange points of stars be useless due to it leading to the middle of nowhere?
 

Offline Hazard

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2018, 10:23:35 AM »
Wouldn't Legrange points of stars be useless due to it leading to the middle of nowhere?

For the galactic orbits? Well, yes, because then you'd have a point about 1/6th of the galaxy away. But for companion stars they should create an exploitable Lagrange Point. IIRC though that doesn't actually shorten the distance to travel to the star.
 

Offline swarm_sadist

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2018, 01:31:49 PM »
I was suggesting that you could use the barycenter of a binary star system as a point to build a LP.

Wouldn't Legrange points of stars be useless due to it leading to the middle of nowhere?

For the galactic orbits? Well, yes, because then you'd have a point about 1/6th of the galaxy away. But for companion stars they should create an exploitable Lagrange Point. IIRC though that doesn't actually shorten the distance to travel to the star.
That depends on the size of the two binary stars compared to each other. Stars that are similar to each other would have the barycenter and L1 almost on top of each other, while two very differently sized stars might have 90% of the jouney shortened.

Ex 1: 61 Cygni are close to the same size, so their barycenter and L1 are only ~3 AU apart from each other. You would still have to make 96.2% of the jouney the hard way.

Ex 2: Sirius A is almost twice as big as B, so their barycenter and L1 are ~5 AU apart (but the system itself is much smaller). You would only need to travel 75.9% of the way.

So even if there are 0 planets and LP in the entire system, you could still shorten the trip. And in both of these examples, if there is already an existing LP around a gas giant in one of the systems, then you would save even more distance. Travelling from an LP around a gas giant to the half way point between two stars still saves you half a trip.
 

Offline Jovus

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2018, 06:18:35 PM »
Except there is a Lagrange point, L1 between star A and B. This point will be closer to the star with less mass. Make it so an LP can be built on the Barycenter of the two stars (towards the more massive star) and you have a makeshift highway for two stars without planets, without needing to force the algorithim.

I may very well be misremembering, so forgive me, but don't you have this backwards? Won't L1 be closer to the star with more mass? If I remember aright, the Earth/Sun L1 is inside the Sun.

In either case your point still stands; ability to put an intra-system jump on L1 and the barycentre would be useful.
 

Offline Barkhorn

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 06:39:58 PM »
You're thinking of the barycenter.  The larger the difference in mass between two bodies is, the closer the barycenter will be to the larger body.  The larger the difference in mass between the two bodies, the closer L1 will be to the smaller body.  Remember, lagrange points are where the gravity of multiple bodies cancel out.  If the Earth-Sun L1 was within the sun, that would mean the Earth is actually pulling harder on part of the sun than the sun is.
 
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Offline Jovus

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 07:38:45 PM »
Yep, I was. Thanks.

In case anyone else is curious, Wikipedia has an extremely helpful picture.
 

Offline DIT_grue

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2018, 11:52:28 PM »
For the galactic orbits? Well, yes, because then you'd have a point about 1/6th of the galaxy away. But for companion stars they should create an exploitable Lagrange Point. IIRC though that doesn't actually shorten the distance to travel to the star.

True for binaries, barring extreme corner cases, though it still bugs me on a consistency level. It's much more likely to increase convenience once you have three or four stars in the system.
 

Offline space dwarf

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2018, 10:54:52 AM »
I don't really get the idea f how Lagrange points are supposed to work in Aurora, why they act as teleporters, and certainly no idea how you would construct one.  Can someone explain to me how i've missed the point?
 

Offline Jovus

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2018, 11:09:34 AM »
I don't really get the idea f how Lagrange points are supposed to work in Aurora, why they act as teleporters, and certainly no idea how you would construct one.  Can someone explain to me how i've missed the point?

Lagrange point means something slightly different in Aurora than they do in real life. In Aurora, they act as intra-system jump points, and currently exist; you've probably seen some if you've played 7.1 in large systems or systems with large gas giants or multiple stars.

They're connected to the real life concept of Lagrangian points by the conceit that jump points of all sorts are areas of strange gravitational topology, and some Lagrangian points in some Aurora systems allow for short-range wormhole-like jumps to certain other Lagrangian points - which is why these intra-system jump points are invariably on the leading or trailing Trojan point for some system body or other.

The idea is to allow the player to force these Lagrangian points to work as intra-system jump points by allowing him to construct miniature jump gates or some such that link them together, much like naturally-occuring (in Aurora terms) Lagrange points.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2018, 07:16:33 PM »
I don't really get the idea f how Lagrange points are supposed to work in Aurora, why they act as teleporters, and certainly no idea how you would construct one.  Can someone explain to me how i've missed the point?

Lagrange point means something slightly different in Aurora than they do in real life. In Aurora, they act as intra-system jump points, and currently exist; you've probably seen some if you've played 7.1 in large systems or systems with large gas giants or multiple stars.

They're connected to the real life concept of Lagrangian points by the conceit that jump points of all sorts are areas of strange gravitational topology, and some Lagrangian points in some Aurora systems allow for short-range wormhole-like jumps to certain other Lagrangian points - which is why these intra-system jump points are invariably on the leading or trailing Trojan point for some system body or other.

The idea is to allow the player to force these Lagrangian points to work as intra-system jump points by allowing him to construct miniature jump gates or some such that link them together, much like naturally-occuring (in Aurora terms) Lagrange points.

Should add that they only appear around Jovian type planets.
 

Offline Jovus

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Re: C# Aurora v0.x Questions
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 03:25:06 PM »
Should add that they only appear around Jovian type planets.

They don't, though. I've seen intra-system jump points tied to stars in a binary and a trinary system.
 

 

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