Author Topic: How much armor is "heavily armored"?  (Read 2864 times)

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Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« on: March 27, 2019, 12:09:33 PM »
Mostly the question in the title; however, I was wondering what everyone's take on armor was...

I generally consider 3 HS to be the minimum armor for my military ships with 4 HS worth of armor being "well armored" for things like freighters and 6 HS worth of armor being "well armored" for combat vessels.

Also, I like having at least 2 HS of armor on every ship, how much protection is that, generally speaking?

I do realize this is a difficult question, as in some games where I want speed and / or shields to be my main defense, 3 HS worth of armor becomes "heavily armored" on account of doctrine, but from a game play and mechanics standpoint, what are the benchmarks for "light", "medium", and "heavy" in regards to armor... in HS.

EDIT: I meant in Armor Layers, not HS; silly me.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:56:30 PM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline JacenHan

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 12:52:52 PM »
I'm not exactly sure if you mean HS (hull spaces, which depends entirely on how big the ship is) or armor layers, which I think would be more relevant. This is one of things that will be different for everyone. I prefer to put as much mass as possible into offensive systems, which usually means that my most heavily armored ships have about 8-10 armor layers, while the median is probably closer to 4-6 layers. This will also change drastically with your technology, since armor takes up less space further up the tech tree. At starting technology, 3 or 4 armor layers is already significantly cutting into your mass budget, while at high levels, 15 layers might be small enough for every warship to use. It might also be useful to compare it to weaponry, especially missiles: A strength-4 warhead will pierce through 2 layers of armor, a strength-9 warhead will pierce 3, a strength-16 warhead will pierce 4, and so on. If you want a ship to just be able to take a couple of hits and keep fighting, that could give you a rough minimum based on what you are facing.
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2019, 05:16:09 PM »
Twenty-eight layers.

My battlewagons tend to have in the 22-28 range.  Any ship expected to be in combat has at least 10 layers.
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2019, 06:04:47 PM »
are you here to die for your country, or make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country?

 

Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
"Are you here to die for your country, or make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country?"

Yes.
 
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Iranon

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 07:12:50 AM »
My ships tend to be fairly thin-skinned. Many ships including warships have a single layer. For me, 3-5 layers is heavily armoured - enough to safeguard against the occasional hit, beyond that I'd rather avoid getting hit (more point defence, speed, possibly ECM, more range or firepower...) or rely on shields.

My main reason for heavier armour would be the ability to maintain speed in nebula systems.
 

Offline Mastik

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 07:37:49 AM »
Im with Father Tim on this one, my larger ships tend to be thickly armored.
 

Offline hubgbf

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 10:04:59 AM »
frigate an light cruiser are on 3-5 layers
capital ships on 6-10 layers, depending on tech.

Enough to survive some hits, but not a lot because I prefer to have more active defenses than armor.

But on a special occasion I created some heavily armored small ships.
They jumped all together through a defended jump point and started immediatly to run on opposite direction.
Their armor helped them to run away far enough to allow my main fleet to squadron jump and wait for the necessary delay before opening fire with missiles without being fired upon.

The AI had no meson and only a few missiles armed ships.

Most of my armored chips survived for another fight...
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 10:57:32 AM »
five layers of composite armor is 1/8 of the _total tonnage_ of a 10000 ton ship.  that means you've eaten up upwards of 15% of your mission tonnage (with the "voluntary" 4 layers).  15% less throw weight doesn't mean 15% less damage done; in a competitive battle (the kind where armor might be expected to be helpful)  15% of your throw weight may literally be exactly the amount that bypasses defenses.  by the same token, 15% fewer defenses can increase the amount of damage you sustain by half or more.  does taking the 15% out of your propulsion tonnage sound appealing?  how abut taking 15% out of your sensor suite?  the expression you're looking for is  "you have been eaten by grues"




 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 07:17:43 PM »
There are simply no good answer to this question but there are obviously cases where too little or too much armour will hurt your overall operational goals.

In general it all depends on your doctrines, each specific ships design goals, technology level, enemy weapons and strengths, availability of shields etc.

You would obviously want to have strong enough armour on a ship with beam weapons to not risk internal damage after a few hits, especially if it has overpowered engines. A ship designed for stand off combat and who you know have a good speed advantage often have to sacrifice armour or they will not have enough weapons to matter.

The exact number of armour levels will highly depend on technology level and the technology level of enemy weapons.

I would never live by a certain level of armour thickness in any specific form. It would have to develop a bit more natural depending on the environment I find myself in.

So... basically to sum it up... it depends.
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 08:39:44 PM »
  There are simply no good answer to this question. . .


Sure there is, and it's determined by "How fast do you want to go in that nebula?"
 

Offline tobijon

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 06:47:08 AM »
in terms of light medium and heavy armor i don't think layers is the correct measurement to use, since this entirely depends on the level of technology you are playing at. if there are weapons that penetrate 5 layers, the armor should protect 6 layers at least. Instead it could be measured as a percentage of tonnage, for example light armor: 10% tonnage or less, medium armor: 11%-15% tonnage heavy armor 16% or higher. how much these percentages will be exactly depends on playing style.
 

Offline iceball3

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 05:28:27 AM »
I tend to design my thickness around enemy armor penetrating capabilities. The bare minimum i tend to rely on for standoff ships would be slightly thicker than whatever I expect the opposition to be packing, and then dedicate whatever's left of my defensive mission spaces to shields. Being able to soak singular hits that get through the shield is pretty substantial, and as ships get bigger, the armor gets wider, too.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 11:41:01 AM »
Aside from exceptions like nebula, there is no right answer. So my opinion is that commercial designs have 1 layer and come C# will have no armour - it's a waste of minerals and mass. Military ships that are not expected to get hit have 2, 3 or 4 layers depending on risk assessment and overall tech level, in that at early game it's 2 layers but as armour gets lighter it'll move to 3 and eventually to 4 layers. This includes long-range missile combatants as well as scouts and replenishment ships and so on. Then beam sluggers start at 8 layers and go quickly up from there, exact number of layers depending on tech level, engines and shipyard size.

 

Offline Cavgunner

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Re: How much armor is "heavily armored"?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2019, 07:41:13 PM »
My commercial ships generally have 1 layer of armor, except for troop transports and fleet tankers, both of which I typically give around 6 layers of armor.

For military ships, 5 layers would be the absolute minimum for a ship intended to work in a combat zone.  6-10 layers is the norm on non-capital warships.  Capital warships (cruisers, battleships) typically start at 15 layers of armor and go up from there.

Fighters and FACs almost always have only 1 layer of armor.

Of course the exact thickness is also dependent on technology, as others have pointed out.
 

 

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