Ground Formations

[thashepherd]

I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.

This is inaccurate - bombardment units work differently! Light bombardment does nothing in the front line AFAIK. Bombardment may work similarly to AA in terms of automatically supporting certain formations, but I can't back that up in the docs (AFAIK they do nothing unless you explicitly create a support relationship).

Alsadius - do you know if AA is impacted by position (front-line attack/defense vs. support vs. rear-echelon) at all?

FWIW, it would be really nice if organic light bombardment units inside a front-line unit automatically provided support (i.e. automatically attacked the enemy front-line unit targeted by the formation they're a member of).

Edit: Basically what Alsadius said.

[thashepherd]

I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.

I think it's a bit different for bombardment. My understanding is:
- LB in support can hit enemy front-lines. LB in rear-echelon is useless.
- MB in support can hit enemy front-line or support. MB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines.
- MBL and HB in support can hit any enemy formation. MBL and HB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines or support.

However, I am much less confident of my understanding there. Here's the original post: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109786#msg109786

AFAIK MB doesn't do anything from rear echelon; it can hit enemy front-line and support units from your support lines. HB can hit any enemy formation from your support or rear-echelon lines. LB can only hit enemy front-line units and only from your support lines. There's no reason to put HB in support rather than rear-echelon unless you want them to soak fire taken by your other support units. HB in rear-echelon is untouchable unless the enemy also has HB, or if they break through.

To break this down into clean bullet points:

• LB must be in Support, targets enemy Front-Line
• MB must be in Support, targets enemy Front-Line or Support
• HB must be in Support or Rear Echelon, targets enemy Front-Line, Support, or Rear-Echelon

There's some nuace regarding combat phases and targeting between LB and MB/HB, but it's not super relevant in terms of how you place your units as far as I can tell.

[Bremen]

Size: I went with ease of use here. My standard freighter carries 25,000 tons, so refitting it to a commercial troop transport gives 25,000 tons of troop capacity, and so I want my formations to fit evenly in that size, particularly any garrison forces (which will frequently be dropped off by commercial transports). However, 25,000 tons is a bit big, particularly for more expensive stuff like tanks or STO weapons, so 5,000 makes a good compromise - big enough to not be micromanagement heavy, small enough to be affordable, and 5 fit in a 25,000 ton transport.

In my current, and so far only significant, game, I have the following formations:

Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ  (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry  (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank  (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache  (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)

After giving it some thought I decided not to go with CAP infantry; just the normal personal weapons can fill the same role in enough quantity, and I want to bulk the formations out with those anyways. I may be overdoing it on supplies but I haven't had much practical combat experience yet, so better safe than sorry.

Orbital Defense Regiment (4977 tons)
Regimental HQ  (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
20 Orbital Laser Emplacements (Static-10cm Laser, AR 1)

Just something I threw together to provide basic anti-missile and anti-orbital ship defense. Eventually I plan to replace some of the 10cm lasers with a few larger ones for long range capability, but it seems a waste when I get a new level of FC tech every few years.

And finally:
Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)

The idea being for it to sit on the support position to avoid being attacked, while providing bombardment support and mortar fire.

My original plan was that a Planetary Defense Brigade would be a Brigade HQ, 3 Garrison regiments, and 1 Orbital defense regiment. However, I'm reconsidering that based on two discoveries:
1) The orbital defense regiment is by far the most expensive part, costing as much as ten garrison regiments. Ideally I think I should have fewer STO weapons per equal weight of ground units, either by mixing in some other unit type (like long range bombardment) into their formations or combining them with the HQ formation.
2) The ability to set field position by subordinate units. If I end up with 50 regiments in a battle, I might want to be able to set their field positions quickly - which might work better designing all subordinate formations of a brigade for the same field position, so I don't have to switch them individually.

So my rough plan for next game: Brigade HQ will replace the light bombardment weapons with a mix of heavy bombardment and STO, and be designed for rear echelon instead of support. Each one will command 4 garrison regiments instead of a mix of infantry and STO regiments. If I end up fielding 4 brigades together, they'll get a division command formation with a mix of more unit types (like other bombardment weapons and tanks).

[thashepherd]

Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ  (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry  (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank  (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache  (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)

That's an incredible amount of support, 5 would be a better number. Look at the amount of GSP your unit requires and build to that with some level of redundancy.

Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)

This is a really efficient unit for the support position! Just be aware that AFAIK you will only be able to provide artillery support to a single unit at a time. Splitting the mortars out into a separate formation (or one for every infantry regiment) and putting the rest in rear echelon would potentially improve efficiency.

[Alsadius (OP)]

Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)

This is a really efficient unit for the support position! Just be aware that AFAIK you will only be able to provide artillery support to a single unit at a time. Splitting the mortars out into a separate formation (or one for every infantry regiment) and putting the rest in rear echelon would potentially improve efficiency.

Is that an issue? Most formations will be big enough that 85 LB will still be doing damage. That's not going to be overkill, unless you've already basically won. Nuke down one formation a bit in a tick, and have a better chance of breakthroughs against it. Or just avoid the headaches of OOB administration, and keep it simple.

[Bremen]

Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ  (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry  (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank  (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache  (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)

That's an incredible amount of support, 5 would be a better number. Look at the amount of GSP your unit requires and build to that with some level of redundancy.

As a correction, the Supply Caches are actually Inf-LOG-S (I like the smaller logistics on infantry since it makes them more resilient to damage at no extra cost). So it's actually only a fifth the supplies it looks like from my post.

[xenoscepter]

As for bombardment, these: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9792.msg121856#msg121856, http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10097.msg122483#msg122483, might interest you.

I'm pretty sure Light Bombardment when used inside of a front line formation, not supporting it, can choose targets in either the enemy front line or the enemy's support formations. Medium Bombardment inside the front line can target units in the front line, support or rear echelon positions. This has obvious drawbacks, as in the front line these units are far more exposed, but that is my understanding of how these weapons actually work.

Medium AA is the weird one, in that it only functions as Light AA on steroids unless it is the direct parent of another formation, so in a level immediately higher than the formations it should be supporting.

[Migi]

I don't understand the bombardment rules very well but they come from this post (I haven't followed the discussions in other threads so maybe there is clarification elsewhere).

Support and Rear Echelon formations that contain formation elements with bombardment weapons can be assigned to support front line formations that are part of the same organisation. Formations in a support position with light bombardment weapons will fire with the front line formations (see next paragraph). Formations in a support position with medium/heavy bombardment weapons or formations in a rear echelon position with heavy bombardment weapons will fire in a subsequent phase - see below.

Once a front line formation (or a light bombardment element in the Support position) has been matched against a hostile formation, each friendly individual unit (a soldier or vehicle) in that formation engages a random element in the hostile formation, with the randomisation based on the relative size of the hostile formation elements.
(snip)
Once all front line attacks have been concluded, each unit in each element providing supporting bombardment will engage either the hostile formation being targeted by the friendly formation they are supporting, or one of the hostile formation's own supporting elements (counter-battery fire).
(snip)
Supporting medium artillery will choose between hostile forces in Front-Line or Support field positions (and will ignore any elements in Rear Echelon field position for purposes of relative size), while heavy artillery can select targets in any field position.

As far as I can see they don't address bombardment weapons being placed in front line defence or front line attack. My assumption (based on how things are written) is that bombardment weapons in a front line defence or front line attack position would function as a non-bombardment weapons and just fire as normal, although it is possible they don't fire at all, or maybe they fire twice (like AA can).

Light bombardment weapons resolve their attacks along with the unit they are supporting in the 'firing phase', whereas medium bombardment and heavy bombardment have a separate phase where they do bombardment firing. Therefore it seems to me that light bombardment weapons can fire at units in the support position but only if the unit they are supporting is targeting a unit in the support position (which is possible for a unit set as front line attack but not for a unit set as front line defence).

One other thing to note after reading carefully, is that in the 'bombardment phase' bombardment weapons can't target any unit, only the
front line units their supported formation attacked or units supporting that formation.

[DFNewb]

I too am a bit confused about actual combat.

Personally for me at game starts I have been making Med Veh with Med armor with MAC and MAT as my front line units (usually around size 5000) and then some MBOMB and MAA in a parent support unit. The parent also has HQ space for itself the 1 unit of med veh under it and I like to open up about 5k - 10k extra space for future, making my support units usually size 5000 with 20000 HQ space. Later on I will make some INF / static units to fit in as front line defense units.

I've been making my units usually size 1250 to 5000. This is due to a mix of transport sizes (I usually put 1 large troop module on each cargo ship so that's 5000tons of transport and ground force commander unit size ratings).

From the combat rules I decided that each parent support unit (BOMB and AA) will have 1 attack unit (Usually heaviest Vehicles I can make, which it will directly support) and then some defense units to take hits and stuff (generally INF and static, a mix of things including LBOMB and LAA but not heavier versions of BOMB or AA). These can also support your attackers with their Lbomb.

For logistics I do a mix of INF logistics on the unit level and putting in logistic trucks on the support units.

[Pedroig]

Is there any way we can change the Rank Structure in regards to HQ level to Rank?  Currently it goes: 5, 12.5, 25, 50, 500, 1000  Any way we can change and/or add values?  I know we can add/change ranks...

For "sweet spot" small units should aim for 2009 tonnage, that is one of the most efficient use of HQ tonnage per Command Tonnage, everything smaller than 2009 is 10 tons, at 2010 it goes to 10.1 and increases .1 every 20 tons thereafter.  Another "sweet spot" is using Light Vehicles for LOG units, harder to hit than Static or Inf LOG units.  (though LOG-S on Inf is a huge tonnage saver)

Does anyone know if a formation set to Support can Support two down, and likewise Rear Echelon? 
So it would look something like this:

HB/HAA - Divisional Arty - RE
+HB - Brigade Arty - RE
++ MB - Battalion Hvy Mortar - Sup
+++ LB - Company Lt Mortar - Sup
++++ Fighting Company - Front Line A/D

[GenJeFT]

I cant even figure out how to make ground formations at all. Where is that explained?

[Father Tim]

I cant even figure out how to make ground formations at all. Where is that explained?

In Garfunkel's excellent "How to Make Ground Units in C# Aurora" video, amongst other places.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10645.0

[Hazard]

In VB Aurora it was defense strength, but in C# Aurora changing the armour rating does not seem to have any effect.

The important stat (for the commander) is Occupation.  So far a decent amount of ground troops has been quite successful at supressing unrest, such that I've never built troops strictly for reducing unrest -- my normal army does it automatically as a bonus effect.

IIRC the base strength for garrison duties in Aurora C# is unit number. Which means that lightly armed and equipped infantry formations are highly cost efficient when it comes to keeping the locals quiet.

[Bremen]

New game, new revision of my ground doctrine.

The basic garrison regiment is mostly the same... a bit lighter on logistics infantry:

Planetary Defense Regiment (5000 tons)
Regiment HQ  (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
615 Infantry Troopers (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank Troopers (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache  (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)

If I have the math right, I believe that gives the regiment intrinsic supply for 10 days of combat. Having mostly done peaceful buildup so far, I have no idea if that's high or low, but it seems like a decent ballpark.

I merged the Brigade command and STO weapons into one formation:

Planetary Defense Brigade (5000 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
Siege Laser Emplacement (Static-20cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Orbital Laser Emplacement (Static-10cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 2)
74 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
10 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
Subordinate Formations: 4 Planetary Defense Regiments

That solves my main concern, that having a regiment dedicated to STO weapons was just too extravagant (now instead of the STO guns costing more than twice as much as the rest of the brigade combined, it's "only" as much as the rest), not to mention cumbersome when it came to setting field positions. Plus, it gives me a convenient 25,000 ton formation I can drop on any given planet and have a decent versatile defense against minor attacks, or I can drop several to really fortify an important colony.

OTOH it means the expensive STO weapons are going to be in the support position instead of rear echelon - I'm not sure how I feel about that, since it increases the chance of losing them in ground combat. I could replace the light bombardment units with heavy/long range bombardment and make the whole formation rear echelon, but that would be less efficient (also I don't have those techs yet). Alternately, I could assume that once the enemy has landed the STO weapons have probably served their purpose anyways. Also I have to admit the idea of the enemy landing ground forces to deal with STO weapons is all sorts of thematic.

[GenJeFT]

Thank you for the help. I came up with the police units that are pictured in the attached picture as practice. Still some mistakes but its a start.