Author Topic: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.  (Read 4025 times)

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Offline liveware

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2020, 05:19:40 PM »
Is it really tenable to go as deep down as platoon level in Aurora... I have so far only worked with Company Level strength formations. At platoon level it seems like the individual formations get too weak and you risk breakthroughs from enemy attack quite often.

I have only just begun to scratch the surface of Aurora 'ground' combat and I have thus far made absolutely zero attempt to base any of my troop formations on any sort of realistic command structure. However, in terms of troop size, I do use small groups of about 200-250 tons for ship boarding purposes (or at least, I plan to). I do NOT have any data on how formations of this size actually perform in combat... yet. However, here is a typical boarding squad from my latest campaign:

Code: [Select]
Light Assault Mech Squadron
Transport Size: 250 tons
Build Cost: 428.6 BP
35x Light Assault Mech
1x Light Command Mech
3x Light Supply Mech

#####################
Light Assault Mech
Transport Size (tons) 6     Cost 9.89     Armour 16     Hit Points 8
Annual Maintenance Cost 1.2     Resupply Cost 1.3
Improved Personal Weapons:      Shots 1      Penetration 12      Damage 10

Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare

Vendarite  0.24   
Development Cost  494
#########################
Light Command Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 32.96     Armour 16     Hit Points 8
Annual Maintenance Cost 4.1     Resupply Cost 0
Headquarters:    Capacity 1,000

Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.8   
Development Cost  1,648
########################
Light Supply Mech
Transport Size (tons) 10     Cost 16.48     Armour 16     Hit Points 8
Annual Maintenance Cost 2.1     Resupply Cost 0
Logistics Module - Small:      Ground Supply Points 100

Boarding Combat
Desert Warfare
Extreme Pressure Combat
Extreme Temperature Combat
High Gravity Combat
Jungle Warfare
Low Gravity Combat
Mountain Warfare
Rift Valley Warfare
Non-Combat Class

Vendarite  0.4   
Development Cost  824
[/code]

I am RPing that each light mech is manned by one pilot, so a squadron as described above requires 39 soldiers. So that would be approximately a platoon sized formation using the previously linked wiki article as reference. This formation is designed to fit in a small troop boarding transport module which can carry 250 tons max. I don't personally see any reason to make any formations smaller than this. Yet.

I can't remember the sizes of the formations used in Starship Troopers (the book), but that is probably the direction I'm going to head when it comes to my ground combat unit and formation designs.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:26:00 PM by liveware »
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Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2020, 05:38:33 PM »
That 5 tons also allows said infantryman to breathe vacuum and survive any temperature environment.

Of course, ideally, the extra capabilities would add weight to a unit (and that there would be a tech line to reduce that weight) and we couldn't use units without such capabilities on rocks that lack atmosphere or have extreme temperatures and so on.

Ideally yes, I believe that is a capability you can add to them as well, having played around with that.  I don't know if extreme temperature and such is just a bonus or if its a hard limit or not.
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2020, 06:01:05 PM »
I believe the game makes a distinction between troops being able to survive in a particular game environment and troops being able to conduct successful combat operations in a particular game environment.

Example 1: Unrest on Luna. Solution is to deploy colonial marines from Terra. Said marines need no special equipment. You can transport a 'basic' marine squadron from Terra to Luna and they will be able to survive on the surface even without the special 'extreme' temperature/pressure research options.

Example 2: Hostile demonic aliens on Luna. Solution is again to deploy colonial marines from Terra. Said marines might be able to land but they will get slaughtered gruesomely by hostile aliens unless they have low grav, extreme temp, and extreme pressure tech installed.
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Offline Arwyn

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2020, 06:01:41 PM »
Is it really tenable to go as deep down as platoon level in Aurora... I have so far only worked with Company Level strength formations. At platoon level it seems like the individual formations get too weak and you risk breakthroughs from enemy attack quite often.

I can't remember the sizes of the formations used in Starship Troopers (the book), but that is probably the direction I'm going to head when it comes to my ground combat unit and formation designs.

The basic operational unit in Starship Troopers (book version) was the platoon. The platoon was the smallest operational unit with direct attached transport, in this case, the TFCT Roger Young, which is listed as a "transport corvette" which could carry the platoon and support staff needed to sustain them.

The largest formations described were divisional. Three platoons to a company, four companies to a battalion, three battalions to a regiment, three regiments to a division.

This paralleled a lot of US organizations at the time the book was written (1959).

That all comes from the original Starship Troopers board game from Avalon Hill (1976) which had a pretty good amount of detail on the operational units.

Much like Steve, I consider my troops to be single soldiers. Right now I have been basing most of my troop organization around the company as my smallest operational unit. Mainly cause its flexible in terms of attaching officers, since they could be Lieutenants up to Captains, and its generally the smallest conventional formation from an operational perspective, where you see adjunct staff and attached units. Doesnt have to be that way, just found it convenient and easy to wrap my head around, since I was already familiar with the concepts. :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:07:51 PM by Arwyn »
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2020, 06:09:09 PM »
Is it really tenable to go as deep down as platoon level in Aurora... I have so far only worked with Company Level strength formations. At platoon level it seems like the individual formations get too weak and you risk breakthroughs from enemy attack quite often.

I can't remember the sizes of the formations used in Starship Troopers (the book), but that is probably the direction I'm going to head when it comes to my ground combat unit and formation designs.

The basic operational unit in Starship Troopers (book version) was the platoon. The platoon was the smallest operational unit with direct attached transport, in this case, the TFCT Roger Young, which is listed as a "transport corvette" which could carry the platoon and support staff needed to sustain them.

The largest formations described were divisional. Three platoons to a company, four companies to a battalion, three battalions to a regiment, three regiments to a division.

This paralleled a lot of US organizations at the time the book was written (1959).

That all comes from the original Starship Troopers board game from Avalon Hill (1976) which had a pretty good amount of detail on the operational units.

Much like Steve, I consider my troops to be single soldiers. Right now I have been basing most of my troop organization around the company as my smallest operational unit. Mainly cause its flexible in terms of attaching officers, since they could be Lieutenants up to Captains, and its generally the smallest conventional formation from an operational perspective, where you see adjunct staff and attached units. Doesnt have to be that way, just found it convenient and easy to wrap my head around, since I was already familiar with the concepts. :)

Perfect, I am on the right track then.
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Offline Vortex421

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2020, 03:03:01 PM »
I've taken the standard NATO OB to develop a lot of my own organizational TOE, at least on the army side. I start at Company and work as high as Army (haven't gotten far enough in game to get to that point yet...), but I've tweaked the sizes so a Division comes out to a size of about 5000, Battalion about 5 times that, Regiment 5 times that, and so on.  This also lines up roughly with what I see for my ranks (I'm using US ranks, yes), and at a glance generally lines up with the Ground Combat Command sizes in the game.  (I typically see Majors averaging 5k, Lt. Colonels about 15-25k, Colonels tend to be over 100k, etc.)

In some cases, I will have smaller elements (Space Marines, for example), and label them accordingly.  But these are more specialized units.  Here's my general breakout:

Company -> Major -> 5k max
Battalion -> Lt. Col -> 25k
Regiment -> Col. -> 125k
Brigade -> Brig. Gen. ->625k
Division -> Major Gen. -> 3 mil
Corps -> Lt. Gen -> 15 mil
Army -> General -> 75 mil

For naval, I'm starting to try to break ships out by size - on the warship end.  Since a fighter shouldn't be more than 300-400 tons (I think it is), then I look at them like this:

500 - 5000 tons - Corvette
5000 - 15000 - Destroyer
15000 - 25000 - Light Cruiser
25000 - 35000 - Cruiser
35000 - 50000 - Heavy Cruiser
50000 - 75000 - Battleship
75000+ - Dreadnought

Light Carriers would be between 25k and 50k, Regular carriers between 50k and 75k, and Fleet carriers > 75k.

I've not gotten over about 30k yet, so most of this is untested hypothesis... I get a game started and then a patch comes out! :)
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2020, 01:35:34 AM »
I've taken the standard NATO OB to develop a lot of my own organizational TOE, at least on the army side. I start at Company and work as high as Army (haven't gotten far enough in game to get to that point yet...), but I've tweaked the sizes so a Division comes out to a size of about 5000, Battalion about 5 times that, Regiment 5 times that, and so on.  This also lines up roughly with what I see for my ranks (I'm using US ranks, yes), and at a glance generally lines up with the Ground Combat Command sizes in the game.  (I typically see Majors averaging 5k, Lt. Colonels about 15-25k, Colonels tend to be over 100k, etc.)

In some cases, I will have smaller elements (Space Marines, for example), and label them accordingly.  But these are more specialized units.  Here's my general breakout:

Company -> Major -> 5k max
Battalion -> Lt. Col -> 25k
Regiment -> Col. -> 125k
Brigade -> Brig. Gen. ->625k
Division -> Major Gen. -> 3 mil
Corps -> Lt. Gen -> 15 mil
Army -> General -> 75 mil

For naval, I'm starting to try to break ships out by size - on the warship end.  Since a fighter shouldn't be more than 300-400 tons (I think it is), then I look at them like this:

500 - 5000 tons - Corvette
5000 - 15000 - Destroyer
15000 - 25000 - Light Cruiser
25000 - 35000 - Cruiser
35000 - 50000 - Heavy Cruiser
50000 - 75000 - Battleship
75000+ - Dreadnought

Light Carriers would be between 25k and 50k, Regular carriers between 50k and 75k, and Fleet carriers > 75k.

I've not gotten over about 30k yet, so most of this is untested hypothesis... I get a game started and then a patch comes out! :)

You might consider modifying your naval hierarchy somewhat to include fast attack craft (FACs). The game makes a distinction for ships less than 1000 tons whereby such ships do not require a bridge component. I do not believe ships larger than 500 tons can be produced at fighter factories however.
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Offline liveware

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Re: Real life military organizations, equipment and personnel.
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2020, 01:40:52 AM »
I believe the game makes a distinction between troops being able to survive in a particular game environment and troops being able to conduct successful combat operations in a particular game environment.

Example 1: Unrest on Luna. Solution is to deploy colonial marines from Terra. Said marines need no special equipment. You can transport a 'basic' marine squadron from Terra to Luna and they will be able to survive on the surface even without the special 'extreme' temperature/pressure research options.

Example 2: Hostile demonic aliens on Luna. Solution is again to deploy colonial marines from Terra. Said marines might be able to land but they will get slaughtered gruesomely by hostile aliens unless they have low grav, extreme temp, and extreme pressure tech installed.

I discovered from other posts that my understanding of the 'extreme'  unit traits was flawed. It seems the 'extreme' and 'gravity' traits apply only to vehicles and the 'warfare' and 'genetic enhancement' traits apply only to infantry.
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