Civilian Ships

[Erik L]

How does the AI determine where to drop off colonists for the civilian ships?

I've got Earth (2767.07m), Nueva Terra (21.7m), Framingham (17.5m), Somersville (14.88m), and Far Harbor (0m)

Earth is in Sol obviously, Nueva Terra, Framingham and Somersville are in Boston, and Far Harbor in Anchorage. Warp chain is:
Sol--Boston--Anchorage

The civs take from Earth and dump on NT. Then take from NT and drop on either Fram or Somer. They are completely ignoring FH. There are gates the entire chain, so there shouldn't be a reason I can see that they'd ignore the 0.0 Far Harbor for the .8 Somersville.

The civilian ships pick up from any population over 20m and drop off at any population under 20m. They select the closest pop in terms of jumps.

I am considering letting the player specify which populations are able to supply colonists and which are able to receive colonists. This would allow more control over civilian colonization but my concern is that would remove too much of the "civilian" element and the colony ships would just go where the player told them. An in-between option might be to allow the player to specify the breakpoint (currently 20m) between colonists arriving and colonists leaving for his Empire as a whole.

Steve

The thing I find most annoying is they will pick up some colonists from Earth, transport them to NT. Then since that puts them over 20m, pick up some colonists there (dropping it under 20m), and drop them off on Framingham (putting it over 20m). They then pick up from Framingham, and drop off on Nueva Terra.

Maybe put a check in there they cannot pick up from a planet they've dropped off at recently/last/within the last year.

[SteveAlt]

The thing I find most annoying is they will pick up some colonists from Earth, transport them to NT. Then since that puts them over 20m, pick up some colonists there (dropping it under 20m), and drop them off on Framingham (putting it over 20m). They then pick up from Framingham, and drop off on Nueva Terra.

Maybe put a check in there they cannot pick up from a planet they've dropped off at recently/last/within the last year.

Two other thoughts I have had since the last post are:

A) I should have a gap between the level at which they will drop off and the level at which they will pick up, to avoid the above problem.

B) Maybe I should add to the civ colony rules that each colony fleet will select a colony that is not the destination of any other colony ships from the same race, unless all of them currently have inbound colonists.

Steve

[Erik L]

I do find it quite disturbing to find a civilian ship with 30(!) box launchers on it.

Tempted to track it down and scan it more fully to see what else the civs are hiding from me.

Steve-
I've noticed that some of the civilian ships are using my designs. Others are not, as I've not designed a box launcher. Do the civs modify the base designs any? Based on tonnage, the ship with the box launcher looks a lot like one of my jump surveyors, though mine are unarmed.

[Laurence]

I do find it quite disturbing to find a civilian ship with 30(!) box launchers on it.

Tempted to track it down and scan it more fully to see what else the civs are hiding from me.

You've got rebels about.  

[Erik L]

I do find it quite disturbing to find a civilian ship with 30(!) box launchers on it.

Tempted to track it down and scan it more fully to see what else the civs are hiding from me.

You've got rebels about.  

I'm not really too awfully worried. It's a size 1 launcher, and the smallest missile I've designed is a size 2 countermissile. Even if the size 2 is reduced, that reduction is coming off speed and agility, which will make it even easier to kill.

Once the first civ ship appeared, I stuck one of my PDCs in permanent active sensor mode, so each time they land at Earth, I get a scan on them.

[SteveAlt]

I do find it quite disturbing to find a civilian ship with 30(!) box launchers on it.

Tempted to track it down and scan it more fully to see what else the civs are hiding from me.

Steve-
I've noticed that some of the civilian ships are using my designs. Others are not, as I've not designed a box launcher. Do the civs modify the base designs any? Based on tonnage, the ship with the box launcher looks a lot like one of my jump surveyors, though mine are unarmed.

I have no idea what is happening here

Steve

[SteveAlt]

I have made a few changes to civilians.

1) If possible, their colony ships will select the closest destination that is not the destination of any other civilian ship. If not possible, they will behave as they do now.

2) I have added civilian freighters. These will pick up infrastructure from a civilian space centre and deliver it to any hostile environment colony where the current infrastructure is less than 2000 (enough for a 10m pop on a col cost 2 world). For now, they will only do this for colonies you have created, even those with no existing pop or infrastructure. They won't create new colonies, although I may add that in the future. Like the colony ships, they will try to select destinations that are not already the destination of the other infrastructure freighters. The infrastructure itself is provided by the civilian space centre and doesn't cost wealth or resources.

3) I have removed civ grav survey ships for the moment.

4) Finally, civilian ships no longer require fuel. It is assumed the civilian space centre will provide the necessary fuel and it makes things much easier with a minimal reduction in gameplay

Steve

[waresky]

Civilians are same as in real situation a "normal" traveller or tourist or populations expansion..
It's a great idea..
No Colony r immobilizing in populations,this r ur great "simulation".

[waresky]

But r possible,for a civilians routine program,coloniz some "bad politics" or "too far from Core" systems..r very real simulations.
Some Uthopic Leader send a "religious anarchist" at 1 jump only far from a vicious enemy:)..do u remember Space mobile Infantry film and book?
yeah..

Or some colonist vanguished on void space..lost in unknow systems,lack on fuel..and one century or another the "Central Governement" (you) found this wreckage in a space..

BUT..NOT build too much colony ships..i think r very expensive this ships..
..hard work and balanced..

[Erik L]

I renamed the civilian "alien" race to "Human Civilian" and as I ID the ships, I've been giving them names. This is the data I've got on the ship class that has me worried.

Code: [Select]

30x Size 1 Missile Launcher
Sensor S64/R80 GPS: 5120, Max Range 51.2m KM, Resolution 80

Tech Data:
Box Launcher .15 Size/ 15x (No Internal Reload)
Missile Launcher Reload Rate 1


Three ships have been seen, 2 of which have 56 Thermal signature.
Estimated Tonnage is 2550 and Estimated Speed is 1098.

I double-checked researched tech. I've not even gotten the box launcher. My next step is .25 Size /100x reload (plus internal Mg), and I want to say I've never designed a Resolution 80 scanner. Largest res I've done is 40.

[Erik L]

This one properly belongs under suggestions... But I'd like to see a better correlation between the TacIntel window contact designations and the Contacts listed in Fleet Moves.

[IanD]

Finally, civilian ships no longer require fuel. It is assumed the civilian space centre will provide the necessary fuel and it makes things much easier with a minimal reduction in gameplay

Will this finally prevent them from running out of fuel? I find that when they start transporting colonists from one colony to another they "forget" to return to the home system to refuel (fuel refineries not on my priority list for a new world). Perhaps you can code it that civilian centres can appear on other planets as well as only the home world? May be they can already but I have just the two on the home world.

Regards

[IanD]

I haven't coded it yet but I intend to add an option to "nationalise" civilian shipping. This will add all civilian shipping to your Empire but there will be a lower chance of civilian shipping appearing in the future. Every time you nationalise the chance will decrease further (I am thinking of halving the chance for each nationalisation).

Is it possible to have a button to buy civilian shipping, not all of it but selected task groups and at a reasonable market cost? E.g. My empire is short of geo survey ships, the civs have built two or three which just hang around doing nothing and I would like to give them something constructive to do, but I am quite happy with the colony ships and don't want to interfere in their work. This would be much better than an all or nothing nationalisation button, which would reduce the chance of more free ships.

Regards

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Finally, civilian ships no longer require fuel. It is assumed the civilian space centre will provide the necessary fuel and it makes things much easier with a minimal reduction in gameplay

Will this finally prevent them from running out of fuel? I find that when they start transporting colonists from one colony to another they "forget" to return to the home system to refuel (fuel refineries not on my priority list for a new world). Perhaps you can code it that civilian centres can appear on other planets as well as only the home world? May be they can already but I have just the two on the home world.

Yes, they will no longer run out of fuel in v3.2. Civilian centres can appear on any planet with a pop of at least 10 million. The larger the population, the more chance that one will appear. Its about 3% chance per year for a pop of 100m

Steve

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

I haven't coded it yet but I intend to add an option to "nationalise" civilian shipping. This will add all civilian shipping to your Empire but there will be a lower chance of civilian shipping appearing in the future. Every time you nationalise the chance will decrease further (I am thinking of halving the chance for each nationalisation).

Is it possible to have a button to buy civilian shipping, not all of it but selected task groups and at a reasonable market cost? E.g. My empire is short of geo survey ships, the civs have built two or three which just hang around doing nothing and I would like to give them something constructive to do, but I am quite happy with the colony ships and don't want to interfere in their work. This would be much better than an all or nothing nationalisation button, which would reduce the chance of more free ships.

That's a very good idea. The only slight problem I can see is that a player would buy up all the civilian ships and remove the civilian element of the game. Therefore, how about if the only civilian ships offered for sale are those that cannot find anything to do, like the geo survey ships you mentioned? This is on the basis that if the civilian owner cannot find any thing for his ships to do, he is much more likely to try and sell them.

Steve