Early Game Ship Survey Carrier Designs

[liveware (OP)]

I wanted to share some of my successful early game survey carrier designs. These designs were inspired by other posts to this forum.

First, the almighty geo-survey fighter:

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Lewis class Geological Survey Craft      500 tons       18 Crew       131.5 BP       TCS 10    TH 1    EM 0
100 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/0/1      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 16.67 Years     MSP 139    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 1    5YR 14    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Hamburger-Armintrout Lewis Conventional Engine  EP0.50 (2)    Power 1.0    Fuel Use 55.90%    Signature 0.5    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000 Litres    Range 1.3 billion km (149 days at full power)

Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

Next, the grav-survey fighter:

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Clark class Gravitational Survey Craft      500 tons       18 Crew       131.5 BP       TCS 10    TH 1    EM 0
100 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 0/0/1/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 16.67 Years     MSP 139    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 1    5YR 14    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Hamburger-Armintrout Lewis Conventional Engine  EP0.50 (2)    Power 1.0    Fuel Use 55.90%    Signature 0.5    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000 Litres    Range 1.3 billion km (149 days at full power)

Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

And finally, the glue that brings it all together. The scout carrier:

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Amerigo class Scout Carrier      10,000 tons       190 Crew       945.9 BP       TCS 200    TH 36    EM 0
180 km/s      Armour 1-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 81      Sensors 10/10/0/0      DCR 17      PPV 0
Maint Life 30.23 Years     MSP 3,005    AFR 47%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 6    5YR 95    Max Repair 50 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 120 months    Flight Crew Berths 160    Morale Check Required   

Morelle-Udo Amerigo Conventional Engine  EP12.0 (3)    Power 36    Fuel Use 11.41%    Signature 12    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 203,000 Litres    Range 32 billion km (2059 days at full power)

Scollard & Tedesko Amerigo Active Search Sensor AS32-R200 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 33m km    Resolution 200
Aarons Warning & Control Amerigo EM Sensor EM2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km
Aarons Warning & Control Amerigo Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  25m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The Aegis Corporation has successfully used these designs to survey the Sol system.

[macks]

This seems like a pretty good idea actually, since surveying systems with my battle carriers comes with lots of annoying problems like fuel consumption, making dedicated survey fighters and extremely efficient carriers to go on long journeys unarmed and escorted where needed seems like a way less micro management intensive way to play.

[liveware (OP)]

I used to make dedicated survey ships but eventually realized that carriers offer a significant range advantage. Also, if one of my scout carriers runs out of fuel (which is annoying as F), I can dispatch another carrier with one of these guys in the hangar bay to rescue it:

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Kentuck class Tanker      1,000 tons       31 Crew       67.8 BP       TCS 20    TH 2    EM 0
96 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 9      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
Maint Life 14.09 Years     MSP 46    AFR 7%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 10 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP0.96 (2)    Power 1.9    Fuel Use 15.43%    Signature 0.96    Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 215,000 Litres    Range 250.8 billion km (30234 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 4 hours

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Active Search Sensor AS13-R200 (1)     GPS 600     Range 14m km    Resolution 200
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton EM Sensor EM0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Thermal Sensor TH0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I should probably note the Kentuck was developed about 125 years after the Amerigo class. So it has significantly better equipment. However the Amerigo is still in service in my current campaign. Also, the Kentuck can be docked on an Amerigo.

[Vastrat]

This looks to be an interesting design choice for survey ships, I'll have to try it out. Thanks.

[macks]

I used to make dedicated survey ships but eventually realized that carriers offer a significant range advantage. Also, if one of my scout carriers runs out of fuel (which is annoying as F), I can dispatch another carrier with one of these guys in the hangar bay to rescue it:

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Kentuck class Tanker      1,000 tons       31 Crew       67.8 BP       TCS 20    TH 2    EM 0
96 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 9      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
Maint Life 14.09 Years     MSP 46    AFR 7%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 6    Max Repair 10 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP0.96 (2)    Power 1.9    Fuel Use 15.43%    Signature 0.96    Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 215,000 Litres    Range 250.8 billion km (30234 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 50,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 4 hours

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Active Search Sensor AS13-R200 (1)     GPS 600     Range 14m km    Resolution 200
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton EM Sensor EM0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Thermal Sensor TH0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I should probably note the Kentuck was developed about 125 years after the Amerigo class. So it has significantly better equipment. However the Amerigo is still in service in my current campaign. Also, the Kentuck can be docked on an Amerigo.

125 years? That's insane. And still only Improved Nuclear Thermal?

[liveware (OP)]

Some of us like a slower game.

I think Mr. Garfunkel would appreciate this sentiment, based on some of his posted fiction. I find his WW1-in-space universe rather interesting.

FWIW, I started in year 1865 AD. I also started with a  0.2 research rate malus. Also, I started using a conventional (non-TN) empire because that is more fun for me.

Here's the sparknotes version of my own RP universe if anyone is interested: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=11100.45

[vorpal+5]

I like the concept ... Now I would be reluctant to devote a 10.000 tons military shipyard in the early game to build what is essentially (no offense intended) a lousy light carrier that only transport 20% of its size.

ps: I like the mini tanker that can dock in the light carrier though!

[liveware (OP)]

Yeah, it's definitely not the greatest carrier. It was built with haste at low tech... but it does work.

I should probably take a harder look at the design and try to come up with something faster and more spacious.

[liveware (OP)]

Here's my more modernized scout carrier and survey ship designs. These are currently in service surveying systems 'near' Sol. I'm currently limited to max 25 ktons construction capacity at my naval shipyards, though I am probably going to upgrade to 50 kton soon and design a new carrier. The new carrier will probably be more of a battleworthy carrier than my existing scout carrier.

Scout Carrier:

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Columbus II class Scout Carrier      25,000 tons       874 Crew       3,852.1 BP       TCS 500    TH 211    EM 0
422 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 2-76       Shields 0-0       HTK 222      Sensors 30/30/0/0      DCR 97      PPV 0
Maint Life 8.93 Years     MSP 10,450    AFR 57%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 236    5YR 3,534    Max Repair 1487.2 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 40 months    Flight Crew Berths 40    Morale Check Required   

Campisi Marine Columbus J25000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 25000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Berkovitz & Morillo Columbus II Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP211.20 (1)    Power 211.2    Fuel Use 6.41%    Signature 211.2    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 44.9 billion km (1230 days at full power)

Eustis-Sentinella Armaments Company Columbus CIWS-80 (8x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 8,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Eustis-Sentinella Armaments Company Columbus Active Search Sensor AS57-R200 (1)     GPS 10000     Range 57.1m km    Resolution 200
Eustis-Sentinella Armaments Company Columbus EM Sensor EM5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  43.3m km
Eustis-Sentinella Armaments Company Columbus Thermal Sensor TH5-30 (1)     Sensitivity 30     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  43.3m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Geo Survey Fighter:

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Armstrong class Geological Survey Craft      500 tons       21 Crew       139.1 BP       TCS 10    TH 2    EM 0
192 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 1/1/0/1      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 18.44 Years     MSP 147    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 1    5YR 12    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP0.96 (2)    Power 1.9    Fuel Use 15.43%    Signature 0.96    Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 2,000 Litres    Range 4.7 billion km (281 days at full power)

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Active Search Sensor AS13-R200 (1)     GPS 600     Range 14m km    Resolution 200
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton EM Sensor EM0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Thermal Sensor TH0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

Grav Survey Fighter:

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Aldrin class Gravitational Survey Craft      500 tons       21 Crew       139.1 BP       TCS 10    TH 2    EM 0
192 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 1/1/1/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 18.44 Years     MSP 147    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 1    5YR 12    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP0.96 (2)    Power 1.9    Fuel Use 15.43%    Signature 0.96    Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 2,000 Litres    Range 4.7 billion km (281 days at full power)

Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Active Search Sensor AS13-R200 (1)     GPS 600     Range 14m km    Resolution 200
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton EM Sensor EM0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Steenbergen-Jaggers Drive Systems Shakleton Thermal Sensor TH0.3-1.8 (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction


[kenlon]

Those designs are glacially slow - what benefit are you actually getting out of using survey fighters, if it means you're taking five or ten times as long to get to places to survey?

For comparison, here's one of my very early geosurvey ships (Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine, like yours) with an appropriately early Jump Drive (Efficiency 5, a 4K RP tech) added to it, along with upping the maint/engineering spaces to match the range. (The original version of this was pre-jump, and displaced 8.9Kt.)

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Aachen-B - Copy class Geosurvey Ship (P)      13,316 tons       141 Crew       813.6 BP       TCS 266    TH 320    EM 0
1201 km/s    JR 1-25(C)      Armour 1-50       Shields 0-0       HTK 49      Sensors 0/0/2/2      DCR 4      PPV 0
Maint Life 7.12 Years     MSP 2,152    AFR 355%    IFR 4.9%    1YR 74    5YR 1,115    Max Repair 100 MSP
Capitaine de vaisseau    Control Rating 2   BRG   SCI   
Intended Deployment Time: 72 months    Morale Check Required   

DERPZILLA JC15K Commercial Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 1

Refóios Drive Systems NTE Mk2 Extended Burn 1.25Kt EP80.00 (4)    Power 320    Fuel Use 8.94%    Signature 80    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,500,000 Litres    Range 226.6 billion km (2183 days at full power)

Geological Survey Sensors (2)   2 Survey Points Per Hour
Gravitational Survey Sensors (2)   2 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

It's 18.4% of the BP of a Columbus II + four of your survey fighters. It's six times the speed of the survey ships, three times the speed of the carrier, has a six year deployment, maintenance and fuel burn time, and can be built in a smaller shipyard.
Building five of these for the same BP cost as one carrier + 4 survey fighters gets you faster surveying, in more places, with longer deployment times and more range.

Even with your early tech, those are unsuitable for the task you've set them to - small survey craft only make sense if you can get enough of a speed boost out of them that they can provide you with a real increase in survey speed, and those that you have there cannot.

EDIT: I would also have to agree with macks - taking 125 years to get to NTE tech is insane. I'm playing on 25% research speed, and 100 years into the game (2175, started in 2075) I'm at Magneto Plasma tech.

DOUBLE EDIT: If you'd be willing to share what your best PP techs are (along with your latest armor tech), I'd be more than happy to see about putting together a better design using just the capabilities you have on hand.

TRIPLE EDIT: I have fixed my original DERP of putting military jump drives on these, which, it turns out, results in them being even better in comparison to your survey carriers. Welp. And I just noticed that I oversized the jump drive by 2K jump capacity, so the Aachen-B based design should be 50km/s faster and 3.9 BP cheaper, but that's not really a big deal for the point I'm making.

[Steelpoint]

The concept of a carrier survey ship has always been a interesting concept for me to explore, sadly I usually get discouraged since the process is far more micro-intensive than creating a standard survey craft and giving it conditional orders. 

Taking the rough technology constraints of Improved NucTherm I'd settle on the below Fighter Geological design.

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Abdiel class Geological Survey Craft (P)      500 tons       13 Crew       121.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 10    EM 0
960 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/1/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 5.08 Years     MSP 115    AFR 20%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 7    5YR 111    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP9.60 (1)    Power 9.6    Fuel Use 19.36%    Signature 9.60    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 29,000 Litres    Range 53.9 billion km (649 days at full power)

Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

If I was doing this for real I'd likely design a FAC sized Geo Survey craft and set it up as below, I feel it then gets decent speed, good range and some EM sensors for better scouting.

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Bigger Abdiel class Geological Survey Craft (P)      800 tons       24 Crew       158 BP       TCS 16    TH 19    EM 0
1200 km/s      Armour 1-7       Shields 0-0       HTK 6      Sensors 0/6/1/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 9.23 Years     MSP 114    AFR 9%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 2    5YR 36    Max Repair 100 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Improved Nuclear Thermal Engine  EP19.20 (1)    Power 19.2    Fuel Use 13.69%    Signature 19.20    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 31,000 Litres    Range 50.9 billion km (491 days at full power)

EM Sensor EM1.0-6.0 (1)     Sensitivity 6.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Putting the micro aside, I think the advantage of setting a carrier ship with, say, four of these ships (or three + one grav survey FAC, OR when your engine tech is better then sizing it down and putting both a grav and geo on the FAC) is that you can survey a system significantly faster than a single Survey ship could.

But again, the micro. 

[liveware (OP)]

Well, I've encountered my first hostile NPR, so now I really need to get a more capable fleet put together. The Columbus II class is definitely way too slow and one of them just got blown away by a couple of NPR ships near the jump point (attached is the aftermath of the battle). Seems the NPR is running ships at about 5000 - 7000 km/s speed, with missiles at about 35000 km/s closing speed.

I was able to see them from outside their missile range, so at least my existing sensors are not totally useless. However I am definitely going to need faster ships going forward.

I'm currently up to nuclear pulse engines with improved pebble bed reactors. Looks like I'm at composite armor tech. I'll post some new designs once I've created them, would appreciate any insight others can provide.

Some other pertinent information: missiles were launched by 2 hostile ships closing at about 5000 km/s. Total of 60 missiles launched, all seem to be in the same volley. CIWS shot down about 20 missiles before impact. Columbus II D survived the initial volley and was limping back to the jump point when the hostile ships closed with energy weapons and finished the job.

[liveware (OP)]

Alright, so after considering my options I am thinking that getting a small fleet of missile destroyers deployed will be my most realistic option given my existing resource and technological limitations. My first design goal will be to design a missile capable of hitting one of the observed NPR ships. Here is my current candidate missile design:

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Falcon Anti-Ship Missile

Missile Size: 20.00 MSP  (50.000 Tons)     Warhead: 12    Radiation Damage: 12    Manoeuvre Rating: 22
Speed: 15,400 km/s     Fuel: 1,000     Flight Time: 11 minutes     Range: 10.53m km
ECM Modifier: 10%     ECCM Modifier: 10%
Cost Per Missile: 16.596     Development Cost: 1,660
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 338.8%   3k km/s 112.9%   5k km/s 67.8%   10k km/s 33.9%

Materials Required
Corbomite  1
Tritanium  3
Gallicite  12.596
Fuel:  1000


Anyone have any suggestions on this design? If my estimation methods are accurate, in a salvo of 10 of these, about 6-7 should hit a 5000 km/s target. So my missile destroyers will need to be able to launch 10 missiles per volley to be effective.

[liveware (OP)]

The concept of a carrier survey ship has always been a interesting concept for me to explore, sadly I usually get discouraged since the process is far more micro-intensive than creating a standard survey craft and giving it conditional orders. 

I discovered that you can issue survey commands to the carrier as long as it has a survey fighter docked. That's how I avoid most of the annoying micro. Same thing applies for troop transport fighters (and I suspect other craft with specialized abilities).

[vorpal+5]

What I dislike about pricey ships doing survey is that they can get blown to piece and you lose big. An advantage of the survey carrier is that you don't put much BP in danger, except if you get a surprise party on the other side of a WH, but even that, you can make a fighter transit before the carrier ...