Author Topic: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition  (Read 806656 times)

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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4560 on: July 03, 2025, 07:21:24 PM »
Decoys can be any size. A few, smaller decoys would give you more flexibility if want to lessen a strike rather than commit everything.

I think the confusing part is that there appears to be no reason, mechanically, to make decoy missiles that match the ship size, or in fact anything larger than the minimum decoy size. As far as I can tell, only the total mass/signature of decoys determines the fraction of missiles deflected, and cost scales linearly for both decoys and launchers.

Intuitively, I think players expect a decoy to "look like" the ship it's decoying from, i.e., to have the same signature. I can see why the actual mechanic is different, as its more flexible and less micromanage-y than requiring exact size matching (plus avoid issues with ship sizes that aren't nice, round numbers), but the fact that an infinite swarm of size-5 decoys is arguably optimal (same performance and cost as any other option, maximum flexibility) seems to eliminate what could/should be a gameplay decision point.
 
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Offline Andrew

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4561 on: July 03, 2025, 08:48:37 PM »
One of the closest things to decoys used on modern ships is Chaff, which is a lot of very small things to confuse incoming missiles. So smaller decoys make a degree of sense. Aside from a small number of air launched drones I am not aware of any decoys which do try to match the signature of a real vehicle.
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4562 on: July 03, 2025, 10:52:56 PM »
Modern flares are mimicking the actual engine signature in wavelength, not just heat, to fool heat-seeking missiles as their homing heads have gotten increasingly sophisticated. And decoy drones, most of which specs are secret, are trying to mimic the sensor signatures of real planes or ships. Same with sonar and submarine-launched decoys.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4563 on: July 03, 2025, 11:10:52 PM »
One of the closest things to decoys used on modern ships is Chaff, which is a lot of very small things to confuse incoming missiles. So smaller decoys make a degree of sense. Aside from a small number of air launched drones I am not aware of any decoys which do try to match the signature of a real vehicle.

Modern flares are mimicking the actual engine signature in wavelength, not just heat, to fool heat-seeking missiles as their homing heads have gotten increasingly sophisticated. And decoy drones, most of which specs are secret, are trying to mimic the sensor signatures of real planes or ships. Same with sonar and submarine-launched decoys.

Usually the real-world example I think of when I think of decoys is the AN/SLQ-25 Nixie (because all ECM components should have cute names!). However, even this doesn't try to exactly mimic the ship's "active signature", per se, but tries to draw off fire by mimicking ship noise or by reflecting the torpedo's pings back at it. Since missiles in Aurora usually home on the gravitational signature rather than noise, I think the former method is probably not applicable, but the idea of reflecting the active pings of the enemy sensors/MFCs to confuse incoming ordnance works fine, so if decoys do not have to (or cannot) match ship size I don't think it's a problem, even if it would be nice to support that for roleplay purposes.

One stills lacks a reason to use anything larger than the minimum size of decoys, however.
 

Offline serger

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4564 on: July 04, 2025, 01:06:10 AM »
One of the closest things to decoys used on modern ships is Chaff, which is a lot of very small things to confuse incoming missiles. So smaller decoys make a degree of sense. Aside from a small number of air launched drones I am not aware of any decoys which do try to match the signature of a real vehicle.

Not a Navy example, yet nearly half of the russian long range drones currently launching at Ukraine every day are Gerbera type, which are mostly decoys, mimiking the main long range strike drone type (Geran-2, the russian licensed copy of Iranian Shahed-136). Gerbera type radar signatures are artifically enlarged to match Geran-2.
 

Offline serger

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4565 on: July 04, 2025, 02:17:59 AM »
I'd suggest to make larger decoys significanty better, something like (size^2) factor for the probability of a missile hitting the decoy. The drawback is obvious, it would not be an imbalance the opposite way.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2025, 07:21:20 AM by serger »
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4566 on: July 04, 2025, 02:45:40 PM »
A repeat of an earlier, unanswered question: Do NPRs ever get suspicious of a dormant jump point and conduct resurveys of their systems? Asking for a friend(ly battlefleet)...
 

Offline AdamantineAxe

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4567 on: July 04, 2025, 05:18:41 PM »
Can player races resurvey a system if they suspect a dormant jump point?

I assumed you had to wait until you could have a sensor detect another race's ship transit through the suspected dormant jump point.
 

Offline EclipsedStar

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4568 on: July 04, 2025, 05:22:00 PM »
Do you mean literally resurveying jump points/celestial bodies, or do you mean having a ship fly around each body with sensors active to see if anyone's 'home'?
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4569 on: July 04, 2025, 05:27:12 PM »
Can player races resurvey a system if they suspect a dormant jump point?

I assumed you had to wait until you could have a sensor detect another race's ship transit through the suspected dormant jump point.

Yes, it was added a while ago, although you were always able to manually resurvey a specific location, IIRC.

Do you mean literally resurveying jump points

This one.
 
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Offline alex_brunius

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4570 on: July 05, 2025, 03:22:17 AM »
Intuitively, I think players expect a decoy to "look like" the ship it's decoying from, i.e., to have the same signature. I can see why the actual mechanic is different, as its more flexible and less micromanage-y than requiring exact size matching (plus avoid issues with ship sizes that aren't nice, round numbers), but the fact that an infinite swarm of size-5 decoys is arguably optimal (same performance and cost as any other option, maximum flexibility) seems to eliminate what could/should be a gameplay decision point.

I don't agree smaller decoys are always optimal. For when your facing negligable missile threats smaller sized decoys mean ships with standard settings will always launch some decoys even against tricklefire from AMMs that your PD or Shields can shrug off which adds cost (or alot micro if you want to turn it off situationally).

For larger decoys it's much easier to have a sensible cut-off setting so that for negligable threats with fewer incoming MSP then 0 decoys will be launched, while still ensuring all decoys will be launched against that deadly alpha strike.
 

Offline paolot

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4571 on: July 06, 2025, 02:08:55 PM »
Please, can you share some examples of stations that you place at DSPs (far from planets)?
Do you prefer one large behemoth, filled with sensors, missiles, guns, refuelling capacity, MSP, hangar, etc.? or few smaller bases, each one specialised for one or two missions (that can be built in parallel, and each one easily moved by one tug)?
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4572 on: July 06, 2025, 07:32:15 PM »
Mine are always modular. Faster to build and makes it easier to tailor the 'base' to what the mission needs.
 
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Offline skoormit

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4573 on: July 07, 2025, 03:32:12 AM »
Please, can you share some examples of stations that you place at DSPs (far from planets)?
Do you prefer one large behemoth, filled with sensors, missiles, guns, refuelling capacity, MSP, hangar, etc.? or few smaller bases, each one specialised for one or two missions (that can be built in parallel, and each one easily moved by one tug)?

For commercial stations (to be built without yards), I prefer each class fulfills one role, and I'll build different sizes for each role.
So I might have a small maintenance station with 2 modules, a medium one with 10 modules, and a large one with 50 modules. With scaling MSP storage.
And a similar array of fuel stations. And commercial hangar stations. Etc.

For military stations to be garrisoned off-colony, I usually make a 10kt design crammed with box launchers and an active sensor appropriate to support ASM fire.
60month deployment time is preferred, but I expect these to be stationed alongside maintenance bases, so I won't add nearly as much eng spaces as I would for a long-deployment ship.
 

Offline mobody

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Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Reply #4574 on: July 07, 2025, 09:28:48 AM »
Can someone help me with a proper design for mines?

I designed a two stage missile. The first stage has no engine and sensors and the second stage just has the engine and a warhead. I tried laying them by creating a waypoint and targeting it but I'm not sure that that's going to work.
What I want to happen is that these second stage rockets start firing when a hostile ship approaches.
Is such a behaviour even possible in Aurora?

Also, is there a way to mark one of your ships as hostile in order to use it as shooting practice? Or is there any other way to test out a ship's combat performance?