Author Topic: Gothic IV Comments Thread  (Read 16711 times)

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Offline gpt3

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Re: Gothic IV Comments Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2025, 07:53:38 PM »
Seeing that precursors will just spawn out of nowhere - in orbit of the planet, with giant ships no less - after digging it up a bit, I think I'll turn the 'enhanced precursors' setting off.
I'll probably turn off for all of the special NPRs, as that looks extremely annoying. Unless I decide I want some masochism for some reason...

You put expensive equipment on the planet, only for it to be completely obliterated by an enemy appearing in orbit - with no downside for them, like jump shock.

If anything, this basically prompts me to ask for a similar tech for players and regular NPRs - fleet teleportation installation. This installation would allow the player/NPR to basically teleport things between teleport installations, limited by installation size. I think size 1 installation would allow 100-ton ship teleports.
But of course, the precursors are darn robots which can teleport, and the pathetic organics can't! >:( I mean, that would be my justification for why regular NPRs/Players wouldn't be able to use it.
You're probably right from an Aurora-as-video-game perspective: players hate setbacks. Sid Meier's autobiography discusses this: the Civilization team considered implementing a "civil war" game mechanic, but eventually shelved it because most players hated losing their cities. Even Paradox Interactive's grand strategy games, which do feature civil wars and rebellions, tend to make them relatively minor affairs. There's probably some sort of loss-aversion psychology going on here.

On the other hand, I think that random losses are useful from the Aurora-as-storytelling perspective. The only way for the player to experience "The Glorious Liberation of Hiigara" is as the sequel to "The Hiigara Disaster".

I think that a middle ground could be for the Precursors to only launch their ships after winning the ground war (perhaps there could be an escalating series of ground awakening). That way the player can recapture their (mostly) intact colony later.

Or just use Spacemaster to kill the Precursor fleet. Aurora is a single-player game; there's no such thing as cheating.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2025, 08:06:23 PM by gpt3 »
 
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Offline Napier

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Re: Gothic IV Comments Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2025, 11:24:18 PM »
If anything, this basically prompts me to ask for a similar tech for players and regular NPRs - fleet teleportation installation. This installation would allow the player/NPR to basically teleport things between teleport installations, limited by installation size. I think size 1 installation would allow 100-ton ship teleports.
But of course, the precursors are darn robots which can teleport, and the pathetic organics can't! >:( I mean, that would be my justification for why regular NPRs/Players wouldn't be able to use it.

Still, I guess some would like this grim aesthetic to things, but I think it would be better to give some kind of subtle early warning to player about upcoming awakening - like messages reporting odd tectonic activity or other strange seismic movement. Maybe xenoarcheologist teams getting attacked/buried by traps, or simply eroding structures. Leader of excavation team getting bad feelings about it or straight up killed.
I think whole planet getting glassed immediately is overkill, it needs to happen gradually, with subtle things happening at first, and then as you complete digging it gets up.

I was reading this not as teleportation, but as ships coming from underground hangars/bunkers (that may have been how Steve described it, I don't remember). An awakening is triggered as the player people explore and root around on the planet, they start activating ships, open the doors and launch them, so the ships come out in waves as they become fully activated.

But the ideas in your 2nd paragraph are nice if they happened very shortly prior to the reveal.. mysterious losses of elements in xeno/construction teams, or mysterious thermal readings deep in the crust.
 
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Offline Blogaugis

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Re: Gothic IV Comments Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2025, 03:05:10 AM »
You're probably right from an Aurora-as-video-game perspective: players hate setbacks. Sid Meier's autobiography discusses this: the Civilization team considered implementing a "civil war" game mechanic, but eventually shelved it because most players hated losing their cities. Even Paradox Interactive's grand strategy games, which do feature civil wars and rebellions, tend to make them relatively minor affairs. There's probably some sort of loss-aversion psychology going on here.

On the other hand, I think that random losses are useful from the Aurora-as-storytelling perspective. The only way for the player to experience "The Glorious Liberation of Hiigara" is as the sequel to "The Hiigara Disaster".

I think that a middle ground could be for the Precursors to only launch their ships after winning the ground war (perhaps there could be an escalating series of ground awakening). That way the player can recapture their (mostly) intact colony later.

Or just use Spacemaster to kill the Precursor fleet. Aurora is a single-player game; there's no such thing as cheating.
Difference here is that resources in aurora are limited (well, besides never ending expansion, and perhaps some exploits, if they can be called that).
In Civilization and Paradox games, resources are more about territory controlled, rather than something finite. The only finite thing that player loses there is time.

You can at least prepare for the coming setbacks in PDX games though - like disasters having specific requirements to occur, and to end.
For unhappiness in Civ games, you expand to places with special resources to compensate. Or, use technology and buildings. There are ways to address losses.
But here though... I don't see any clear way to prepare for this, besides amassing a fleet "in case they wake up". And even then they get the drop on you, because they don't suffer a jump shock or it's equivalent.
Or, simply deciding to not bother going to this system to begin with. Which is... arguably questionable game design. The player should be encouraged to explore and expand. Why this should be an exception?

Basically, I would be fine with this challenge, if there were ways for player to address it. But, I don't see it, hence my concern.

EDIT:
And yeah, making fleet appear only after the ground war is won does look like a nice compromise.

EDIT:
At the very least, my suggestions about odd happenings as your excavation teams dig stuff up gives an indicator to player that something is afoot. The player can at least decide to reduce potential loses and evacuate things.
As for the excavator work - perhaps it would be better to have several different outcomes? Like, in terms of ships:
Outcome 1 - excavator team finds the precursor ship intact. They reprogram it, and get it online (if you have population on the world, you also get it crewed).
Outcome 2 - excavator finds a non-functional precursor ship. You get resources/components.
Outcome 3 - excavator team accidentally reactivates precursor ship. Luckily, it suffers a serious malfunction. Spawn a wreck in orbit.
Outcome 3.5 - excavator team accidentally reactivates precursor ship. It suffers a minor malfunction. Spawn a damaged precursor ship in orbit.
Outcome 4 - excavator team accidentally reactivates precursor ship. It is now in orbit and does what is described in this campaign.

Precursor land forces:
Outcome 1 - excavator team finds remains of a precursor army. You get some resources and maybe research points in some places.
Outcome 2 - excavator team accidentally reactivates a small group of precursor forces. Spawn a small group of hostile forces on planet.
Outcome 3 - excavator team accidentally reactivates a precursor group, which in turn reactivates their army. Spawn a large precursor ground force.
I am not sure if player should be allowed to reprogram robot armies..?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2025, 03:57:32 AM by Blogaugis »
 
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