Author Topic: counter-meson fleet  (Read 4501 times)

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Offline telegraph (OP)

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 06:08:23 PM »
Will not I be able to run away from them with that 10k speed? I was planning to mainain a 200k distance, while shooting them with that railgun (best gun available to me so far.)
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 06:39:10 PM »
Will not I be able to run away from them with that 10k speed? I was planning to mainain a 200k distance, while shooting them with that railgun (best gun available to me so far.)

It all depends on their speed. If your speed is higher, then you can maintain separation. Otherwise they will give you the dubious pleasure of multiple partners ;)

Offline telegraph (OP)

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 06:55:01 PM »
I knew it! Once again I met them. One guy with 600 shields moving @ 1000km/s and a bunch of guys moving @ 10000 km/s. They will rape my jump scout shortly. And only three jumps from Sol. Two of those jumps have jumpgates.  Looks like I will not have time for technological advance...

EDIT: can I blow up jumpgates somehow?
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 07:10:45 PM »
EDIT: can I blow up jumpgates somehow?

No.

Offline Jumpp

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 07:46:42 PM »
They can be surprisingly slow to follow you home, provided that you don't keep poking them with a stick.

Not long ago, I took a colony from an enemy NPR.  I didn't know anything about the position of their other colonies.  They kept sending warships in to harass my occupation force.  After a while, I noticed that these ships always arrived from more or less the same direction, so I started poking around in that direction.  I found a JG with my active scanners.  This wasn't a grav survey.  This fleet had no grav scanners.  But when I got close to the JG, it was added to my map.  Their homeworld was on the other side of that JG, and that world has suffered terribly.

I can't say for sure that the mechanics for this enemy are the same, but it's plausible that they could be.  If I were you, I'd keep a low profile until I was ready for a fight.  You might be hastening their arrival with your activity.  I've had enemy--very like these that you're fighting now--sit patiently and wait for me two jumps from Sol, for years.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:54:38 PM by Jumpp »
 

Offline DTF

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 01:46:56 AM »
Quote from: telegraph link=topic=5743. msg58928#msg58928 date=1355269805
How about this design then?

Code: [Select]
Vanguard class Gunboat    10,500 tons     254 Crew     1934.6 BP      TCS 210  TH 2100  EM 0
10000 km/s     Armour 1-42     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 8
Maint Life 1.1 Years     MSP 576    AFR 176%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 480    5YR 7201    Max Repair 525 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1.4 months    Spare Berths 0    

"Pyre" 1050 EP Ion Drive (2)    Power 1050    Fuel Use 141.8%    Signature 1050    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 3,500,000 Litres    Range 42.3 billion km   (48 days at full power)

25cm Railgun V4/C4 (1x4)    Range 200,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 15-4     RM 4    ROF 20        5 5 5 5 4 3 2 2 2 2
Fire Control S12 128-12000 (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (2)     Total Power Output 4.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'd say trade space used for fuel storage for more weapons.  Again, you are not planing on building a patrol ship, are you? You want a ship designed to kill those fast FACs and for that a few billion km are enough.  Support them with a tanker until the fighting starts and you can get it anywhere you want.  
Also: your ship has a speed of about 10000 km/s.  Your beam fire control has a tracking speed of 12000.  Your BFC is faster than your weapon - I assume your fire control tracking tech is 4000km/s, which means you can trim the FC down to 2x tracking size (resulting in a 8 HS BFC with 8000 tracking speed).  8000km/s tracking speed is actually sufficient to hit the FACs plenty of times.  Less tonnage, more speed.  

Judging by the numbers, I guess the engine is 50HS big with a 1. 75 modifier.  I could come up with a design like this:
Code: [Select]
Half the size class Cruiser    4,900 tons     137 Crew     1099.45 BP      TCS 98  TH 787.5  EM 0
10714 km/s     Armour 1-25     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 8
Maint Life 2.1 Years     MSP 280    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 85    5YR 1271    Max Repair 154 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0    

Military ID-105 x1.75 Drive (10)    Power 105    Fuel Use 269.41%    Signature 78.75    Exp 17% <== Same size / power / fuel use of ONE of your engines
Fuel Capacity 1,000,000 Litres    Range 13.6 billion km   (14 days at full power)

25cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser (1)    Range 256,000km     TS: 10714 km/s     Power 16-4     RM 6    ROF 20        16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 10 9
Laser Fire Control S08 128-8000 (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Stellarator Fusion Reactor P6 (1)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
The laser is just a placeholder for a 8HS weapon of your choice.  Depending on your armor tech, you'll have to account for more space used by armor though.  

Or:
Code: [Select]
New Class class Cruiser    9,700 tons     280 Crew     2128.3 BP      TCS 194  TH 1575  EM 0
10824 km/s     Armour 1-40     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 24
Maint Life 2.44 Years     MSP 617    AFR 167%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 143    5YR 2141    Max Repair 154 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 0    

Military ID-105 x1.75 Drive (20)    Power 105    Fuel Use 269.41%    Signature 78.75    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 13.8 billion km   (14 days at full power)

25cm C4 Soft X-ray Laser (3)    Range 256,000km     TS: 10824 km/s     Power 16-4     RM 6    ROF 20        16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 10 9
Laser Fire Control S08 128-8000 (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Stellarator Fusion Reactor P6 (2)     Total Power Output 12    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I am kind of uncertain, why you'll want such big ships though.  The more tonnage you add, the more engines you need. . .  which results in more tonnage again and less range.  Thus adding more fuel storage requires yet again more engines.  At some point you get diminishing return for any engine added.
If you want a beam cruiser to use against other enemies other than the spoiler race, your tech simply isnt quite up to the task yet (you have paper thin armor and too little armament to justify such an expensive ship).  
Since you are going down the route of very specialized ships anyway, you can design a ship to fight the enemy's mothership - it is very slow and has even shorter weapon range than its FACs => remove engines from your designs and trade it for weaponry; make an even smaller BFC (S02 128-2000),etc.  Just make sure the mothership doesnt have any FACs still in its hangars (i. e.  damage its shields to provoke it into launching them) before you close in on it with your slower mothershipkillers. . .

Hint: 'Follow at 120k km' order against the FACs and  'Follow 7k km' against the carrier.  YMMV



DONT PANIC! heh. .  As Jumpp wrote, unless you lead them right to Sol, they usually stay in the system you spotted them.  They WILL follow you through jumppoints though, if they see you using it after an engagement.  
I had one of their ships in a system right next to Sol (they destroyed my very first ship launched =( ) and I came back 20 years(!) later to kill it.  Treat it like a big bad bear, dont bother it and it should leave you alone unless you are unlucky enough for it to move towards you.

Quote
If you are fighting the swarm the best defence is usually long range, fast missiles.  A lot of long range, fast missiles.  20-30 per salvo per target.  You should be able to design a missile that goes 15k or so.  
Why is that better than having a faster beam ship to engage the swarm? It's a bit like David vs Goliath - you can throw thousands of soldiers at Goliath or use a single guy who is just faster and smarter than him.  With sufficient speed and range the only factor that could spoil the plan is the mothership's shield regeneration rate.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 09:10:43 AM by sloanjh »
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 08:21:10 AM »
Why is that better than having a faster beam ship to engage the swarm? It's a bit like David vs Goliath - you can throw thousands of soldiers at Goliath or use a single guy who is just faster and smarter than him.  With sufficient speed and range the only factor that could spoil the plan is the mothership's shield regeneration rate.

If you lose a beam ship, your firepower is reduced. If you lose a missile, there are a crapton more of them behind it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 09:11:27 AM by sloanjh »
 

Offline Conscript Gary

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 10:53:39 AM »
You can also sling missiles while sitting on a jump point with your finger hovering over the 'transit' button in case things go south.
 

Offline niflheimr

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 12:55:30 PM »
And you can salvo them in enough quantities to take the little slugs down in one blow :)
 

Offline telegraph (OP)

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2012, 10:33:34 AM »
Following your wise advice - I updated my Vanguard blueprint:

Code: [Select]
Vanguard class Gunboat    4,500 tons     138 Crew     918 BP      TCS 90  TH 1008  EM 0
11200 km/s     Armour 1-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 8
Maint Life 0.26 Years     MSP 128    AFR 162%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 494    5YR 7408    Max Repair 504 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1.2842 months    Spare Berths 0   

"Destrier" 1008 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 1008    Fuel Use 147.47%    Signature 1008    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 20.3 billion km   (21 days at full power)

"Rapier" 25cm Railgun V4/C4 (1x4)    Range 200,000km     TS: 11200 km/s     Power 15-4     RM 4    ROF 20        5 5 5 5 4 3 2 2 2 2
"Vanguard Helm" Fire Control S08 128-8000 (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 4.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

"Space Nostril" Active Search Sensor MR6-R16 (1)     GPS 336     Range 6.7m km    Resolution 16

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Fuel Use  is monstrous, so I believe I will have to create a special design for Fleet Training:

Code: [Select]
Invincible class Flight School    120,000 tons     1022 Crew     4250.35 BP      TCS 2400  TH 150  EM 0
62 km/s     Armour 1-216     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 22    Max Repair 18.75 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Recreational Facilities

"Marko Polo" 150 EP Commercial Ion Drive (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1.09%    Signature 150    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 14,100,000 Litres    Range 1924.8 billion km   (359327 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

 

Offline Erik L

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2012, 10:37:34 AM »
Following your wise advice - I updated my Vanguard blueprint:

Code: [Select]
Vanguard class Gunboat    4,500 tons     138 Crew     918 BP      TCS 90  TH 1008  EM 0
11200 km/s     Armour 1-24     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 8
Maint Life 0.26 Years     MSP 128    AFR 162%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 494    5YR 7408    Max Repair 504 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1.2842 months    Spare Berths 0   

"Destrier" 1008 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 1008    Fuel Use 147.47%    Signature 1008    Exp 17%
Fuel Capacity 750,000 Litres    Range 20.3 billion km   (21 days at full power)

"Rapier" 25cm Railgun V4/C4 (1x4)    Range 200,000km     TS: 11200 km/s     Power 15-4     RM 4    ROF 20        5 5 5 5 4 3 2 2 2 2
"Vanguard Helm" Fire Control S08 128-8000 (1)    Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 4.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

"Space Nostril" Active Search Sensor MR6-R16 (1)     GPS 336     Range 6.7m km    Resolution 16

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Fuel Use  is monstrous, so I believe I will have to create a special design for Fleet Training:

Code: [Select]
Invincible class Flight School    120,000 tons     1022 Crew     4250.35 BP      TCS 2400  TH 150  EM 0
62 km/s     Armour 1-216     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 22    Max Repair 18.75 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0   
Recreational Facilities

"Marko Polo" 150 EP Commercial Ion Drive (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1.09%    Signature 150    Exp 2%
Fuel Capacity 14,100,000 Litres    Range 1924.8 billion km   (359327 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes



You do know that fleet training will drop if you move ships out of the task group?

Offline telegraph (OP)

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2012, 10:44:20 AM »
Really? Never noticed that. Are there any prereuisites for the FT to drop? I just tried to detach the 100% trained  Missile Boat  from the TG, but FT did not drop. This  Missile Boat  was trained separately though and only afterwards added to the group.
 

Offline sloanjh

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2012, 11:01:58 PM »
You do know that fleet training will drop if you move ships out of the task group?

I thought Steve took this out a while back.  I could be mis-remembering, though....

John
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2012, 11:19:26 PM »
I thought Steve took this out a while back.  I could be mis-remembering, though....

John
Or I could be.

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: counter-meson fleet
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 02:24:19 AM »
Is it not that fleet training is reduced when you change task-force and not task-group. I thought I remember something like that. I'm usually scared moving 100% trained ships from one task-force to another.

Edit: Nope, just tested that to, they seem to keep the fleet training even when changing the task-force. Good to know because I have been under the impression that it would be lowered.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 02:30:31 AM by Jorgen_CAB »