Reduced size launchers as standard armament?

[MarcAFK]

My own ION are 3750 km/s, but i'm making some FAC's that should be around 6'000 km/s. I can't afford to fuel them though :p
That goes for most of my fleet, BUT, if something jumps into sol, ill be ready for them! Unless they run away and dump missiles from out of my range and travel too fast for my ships to catch up.

[Icecoon (OP)]

Yes, they are a little bit slower. I wanted to ask, what engine power modifiers do you use? I have set them to have 1.00 and if I'm low on Sorium, or I prefer to have longer range ships I usually set it to 0.85 - 0.95 for military ships.

[CharonJr]

Big fan of reduced sized launchers here as well:

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Blücher Mk2 class Raketen-Zerstörer    8 000 tons     118 Crew     1059.2 BP      TCS 160  TH 600  EM 0
3750 km/s     Armour 2-35     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 49.5
Maint Life 1.15 Years     MSP 248    AFR 170%    IFR 2.4%    1YR 190    5YR 2846    Max Repair 300 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 2    
Magazine 660    

600 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 600    Fuel Use 35%    Signature 600    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 405 000 Litres    Range 26.0 billion km   (80 days at full power)

Size 6 Missile Launcher (33% Reduction) (25)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 1200
Missile Fire Control FC55-R16 (1)     Range 55.4m km    Resolution 16
Missile Fire Control FC151-R120 (1)     Range 151.8m km    Resolution 120
Hellfire9-259/95/31 (110)  Speed: 25 900 km/s   End: 61.1m    Range: 95m km   WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 103/62/31

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Since I tend to launch full volleys and see what they did before launching the next one 20min reload time are no problem at all. And I prefer to used specialised ships since my navy is organized into carrier task forces, so no active sensors and fairly light armor due to being largely protected from missiles by other ships.

Concerning power modifiers - 1.00 here, but I usually take the time to build 1 50HS engine.

edit: Dang, just saw that I can't repair my engine, so will get rid of 1 launcher and add 1 engineering for the next revision.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

IMO generally people overestimate how much range they need.  Fuel efficiency is nice, but you only really need enough range for operations within a solar system.  It's usually safe to crank up power modifiers a little and/or reduce fuel allotments and gain some extra space. Use tankers to help make up the difference.

[Iranon]

I don't like power multipliers close to 1.0, because of the way costs scale (quadratically with power multiplier until 1.0, linearly thereafter).

This is one of the reasons my ships tend to come in two flavours,  painfully slow and painfully stressed. Several other concerns also make this attractive.
Slow ships may get turrets for beam armament where the fast ones get spinal lasers and railguns. The slow ones will be designed to be cheap to operate while the fast ones may be mothballed when not needed. And so on.

[alex_brunius]

This is one of the reasons my ships tend to come in two flavours,  painfully slow and painfully stressed. Several other concerns also make this attractive.
Slow ships may get turrets for beam armament where the fast ones get spinal lasers and railguns. The slow ones will be designed to be cheap to operate while the fast ones may be mothballed when not needed. And so on.

I usually do something like this with the addition: The fast ships with max modifier will generally be sitting inside a hangar on one of the slower ones to gain range.

[Starmantle]

I'm a pretty big fan of reduced-size offensive launchers and I'm starting to play with the idea of using them defensively as well.

The Manticore class Missile Barrage Heavy Cruiser makes up most of the offensive punch of my current fleets.  It's centered around one massive wave attack, but it carries enough ordinance to rearm once and colliers help it last longer.

Lately, I've become a fan of 25% Reduction tech for capital ships so I can still rearm in the field, although they're really only expected to launch once or maybe twice in an engagement..

Manticore class Missile Barrage Heavy Cruiser    24,000 tons     478 Crew     4432 BP      TCS 480  TH 2640  EM 1800
5500 km/s     Armour 6-74     Shields 60-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 23     PPV 140
Maint Life 4.12 Years     MSP 2655    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 250    5YR 3749    Max Repair 440 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 1148    

880 EP Internal Fusion Drive (3)    Power 880    Fuel Use 30.46%    Signature 880    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 3,030,000 Litres    Range 74.6 billion km   (156 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/360 Shields (20)   Total Fuel Cost  300 Litres per hour  (7,200 per day)

Size 4 Missile Launcher (25% Reduction) (140)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 2400
Missile Fire Control FC235-R100 (4)     Range 235.2m km    Resolution 100
Avalanche (280)  Speed: 40,000 km/s   End: 73.2m    Range: 175.7m km   WH: 9    Size: 4    TH: 213/128/64
Obliterator Orbital Bomb (7)  Speed: 2,500 km/s   End: 3.7m    Range: 0.6m km   WH: 31    Size: 4    TH: 8/5/2

Active Search Sensor MR96-R150 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 96.0m km    Resolution 150

ECCM-2 (2)         ECM 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

For anti-missile roles, I've tended to favor regular sized launchers, but I'm considering adding a box-launcher reserve.

For example, the Shepherd class Area Defense Corvette is a support ship designed to round out aging fleets and to provide strength to escort and garrison formations.

It can get away with thin armor because the ships it's guarding tend to be more likely targets.  

Shepherd class Corvette    3,000 tons     74 Crew     560.5 BP      TCS 60  TH 330  EM 0
5500 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 8
Maint Life 5.96 Years     MSP 350    AFR 24%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 17    5YR 253    Max Repair 165 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 284    

330 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 330    Fuel Use 53.94%    Signature 330    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 355,000 Litres    Range 39.5 billion km   (83 days at full power)

Size 1 Missile Launcher ( 8 )    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC35-R1 (1)     Range 35.3m km    Resolution 1
Meteor II (284)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 1.3m    Range: 4.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 720/432/216

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

But the variant below has slightly better maintenance life and fuel reserves, a salvo size about 20 times larger, and still manages to carry about 60% of the ordinance.  

It might be a key addition to fleet defense plans in the event that we find ourselves facing an enemy with a similar doctrine of massed first strikes.  

It can't be reloaded in the field, but there are plenty of outlying bases capable of rearming 3,000 ton corvettes.  

Shepherd Mass Variant class Corvette    3,000 tons     35 Crew     509.7 BP      TCS 60  TH 330  EM 0
5500 km/s     Armour 2-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 25.8
Maint Life 6.03 Years     MSP 159    AFR 48%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 7    5YR 112    Max Repair 165 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 48 months    Spare Berths 0    
Magazine 172    

330 EP Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 330    Fuel Use 53.94%    Signature 330    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 430,000 Litres    Range 47.8 billion km   (100 days at full power)

Size 1 Box Launcher (172)    Missile Size 1    Hangar Reload 7.5 minutes    MF Reload 1.2 hours
Missile Fire Control FC35-R1 (1)     Range 35.3m km    Resolution 1
Meteor II (172)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 1.3m    Range: 4.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 720/432/216

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Jorgen_CAB]

I use 25% reduced sized launchers as if they were the same type of missile launchers we have on wet navies today. Real wet navy ships do not use "full size" launchers as they are in the game since they can't be fired or even house as many missiles with enough variety. The only reason I don't use box launchers are of course since I can't reload them in space. I don't put any magazines on the ships unless they are for AMM launchers that are full size. For RP purposes I use one FC for every 10 missile launchers and I stagger the launch in 5 second for every 5+ missile volleys (up to five volleys maximum) on every ship for realism sake so I can't just completely overpower beam defenses in an unrealistic fashion. It is a bit of micromanagement but it is fun nevertheless.

[Icecoon (OP)]

I'm now experimenting with half sized launchers and I'm getting good results with them. In a battle against the precursors I managed to destroy their 8500t ships with a single salvo of 42 missiles and their 16,000-ish cruisers with two salvos. These were from three missile cruisers(12 launchers each) and three missile destroyers(6 launchers each). The 400 s reload time of the size 8 launchers is acceptable for me.

[Arwyn]

I use reduced sized launchers on fast attack craft as soon as I can. Being able to cram 3 to 6 launchers on a FAC works great for swarms of them.

Here is an example. These are slightly older FAC's from my current game. Ion tech.

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Lamprey class Fast Attack Craft    1,000 tons     26 Crew     223.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 90  EM 0
9000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 1.38 Years     MSP 35    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 20    5YR 298    Max Repair 135 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 4   
Magazine 33   

180 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 180    Fuel Use 148.81%    Signature 90    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.4 billion km   (3 days at full power)

ASM-4 Missile Tube (4)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 4000
Tantalus M92 Missile Fire Control (1)     Range 92.0m km    Resolution 60
ASM-4 Kestrel (8)  Speed: 18,000 km/s   End: 75.3m    Range: 81.3m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 96/57/28

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
An older Ion tech design, the Lamprey was designed as a stop gap system defense FAC that prioritized missile launchers over all other considerations. A Lamprey group is usually four vessels plus a Pilotfish command FAC, and they can put a flight of sixteen ASM-4 Kestrels into space at a time. The Lamprey carries two full reloads for their missile tubes, but require difficult and laborious reloading. In the field, Lamprey crews often resort to EVA to expedite the reloading process, as the ships internal spaces are so cramped. The Lamprey is considered a hardship posting, as the accommodations on the small ship are minimal at best. With an internal fuel load of only three days, the spartan crew accommodations were seen as acceptable for a vessel that was likely to be assigned to permanent system defense. This makes for a VERY uncomfortable ship when the FAC groups are assigned to training. Training duty also requires a tanker to be attached to the group, due to the high fuel consumption. Training duty is dreaded by Lamprey crews.

Accompanying Lampey groups are the Pilotfish FAC leader. The Pilotfish is a Lamprey with all missile tubes and magazine removed in order to mount a long range search sensor for the FAC group. Pilotfish are just as uncomfortable for their crews, as the sensor hardware takes up just as much space. Pilotfish are also notorious for being quite warm when the sensor gear is fully operational, as the cooling systems are the same as the Lamprey, which generates significantly less heat in operation that the large sensors generate on the Pilotfish.

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Pilotfish class Fast Attack Craft    1,000 tons     31 Crew     271.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 90  EM 0
9000 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 1.24 Years     MSP 42    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 28    5YR 427    Max Repair 135 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 4   

180 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 180    Fuel Use 148.81%    Signature 90    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.4 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Tantalus M95 Search Sensor (1)     GPS 6720     Range 95.4m km    Resolution 60

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[NihilRex]

It depends on your goal.   Below is my Volley-class OWP.   Its a tanker\collier\OWP with 100 box launchers firing a Trident missile bus.   You park it over a colony and turn the shields and active sensors on.

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Volley class Orbital Weapon Platform    300 000 tons     6476 Crew     47907 BP      TCS 6000  TH 1200  EM 30000
200 km/s     Armour 2-399     Shields 1000-300     Sensors 1200/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1150     PPV 1500
Maint Life 22.85 Years     MSP 299806    AFR 720%    IFR 10%    1YR 1100    5YR 16506    Max Repair 5400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 11   
Magazine 24400   
Fuel Harvester: 2 modules producing 144000 litres per annum

Commercial Solid Core AM Drive (2)    Power 600    Fuel Use 0.49%    Signature 600    Exp 3%
Fuel Capacity 31 050 000 Litres    Range 3802.0 billion km   (220025 days at full power)
Xi R300/240 Shields (200)   Total Fuel Cost  2 000 Litres per hour  (48 000 per day)

CIWS-320 (10x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 100 Box Launcher (100)    Missile Size 100    Hangar Reload 750 minutes    MF Reload 125 hours
Missile Fire Control FC17280-R100 (25%) (1)     Range 17 280.0m km    Resolution 100
Phalanx Anti-missile Missile (2000)  Speed: 120 000 km/s   End: 1m    Range: 7.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 2200/1320/660
Marlin Anti-ship Missile (1240)  Speed: 120 000 km/s   End: 11.3m    Range: 81.6m km   WH: 20    Size: 10    TH: 920/552/276
Trident Marlin (100)  Speed: 3 600 km/s   End: 517.3d    Range: 160908.9m km   WH: 9    Size: 100    TH: 16/10/5

Active Search Sensor MR5760-R100 (25%) (1)     GPS 240000     Range 5 760.0m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH50-1200 (25%) (1)     Sensitivity 1200     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  1200m km

ECCM-4 (1)         ECM 40

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[MarcAFK]

What's Inside the missile bus? I see no launchers for the AMMs or ASMs.

[NihilRex]

Three Marlins, the other missiles are reloads for other ships.   The Marlins separate at 2. 5m klicks, outside (most/all?) beam defense range, and a little over 10secs at Marlin speed from impact.

[Detjen]

I don't feel like reduced sized launchers is really worth the lengthy reload rate to just add another launcher or two.  It can help with first strikes but then your followup is severely delayed.   I decided to take this to an extreme at one point and built a fleet of Box Launchers based loosely on modern day VLS systems on most warships.   Instead of say 5 launchers with magazines that held 10 each for a total of 55 missiles I just put on 55 launchers and and 3-4 Fire control systems.  I had great flexibility in deciding how big of a strike to launch on a target,  and I think the tonnage trade off between launchers and magazines is pretty comparable until you get to the more advanced magazine techs.   my only problem was you had to constantly reassign launchers to your fc if you didnt want a 55 missile salvo

[Jorgen_CAB]

If you want to have decent multi-purpose ships and still get a decent amount of missiles that can actually hurt a defended enemy battle-group you need to use reduced sized launchers. Such ships only carry one (maybe two) load of missiles. They will have to meet up with a tender to replenish if they can not perform their mission with that single strike, or simply retreat and fight another day.

One of the main problem with full size launchers are how easy they can be countered with beam point defences in combination with a decent AMM capacity to top of any overly large salvoes. In these cases you really need larger salvoes to breach any defences. Sometimes using both can be an option because it is trickier to build an efficient defence against them. If all missile waves comes in 50 missiles per salvo then beam defences can be designed around that and you can reduce the number of fire controls. If you mix it up this become less of a problem.

Personally I will at one time or another use all different types of launching systems on different ships for different reasons. It also depend on the research done and what the immediate threats are and what the enemies are like. Most of my campaigns are multi factions and that usually pose a bigger problem when it comes to the innovation of the different sides as well (not to mention political pressures). I even use box launchers for AMM missiles on some types of ships, these are mainly for emergencies on smaller ships while larger ships get the same type in 25% reduction launchers so I can reload them in space. These systems only require very small fire-controls and AMM missile detection systems and will thus become a cheap solution to deal with large enemy salvoes of ASM.