Author Topic: Missile salvo and point defence  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline Kaiser

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Missile salvo and point defence
« on: May 25, 2014, 05:37:09 AM »
Look at the jpg attached, this is my first point defence experience.
Looks like some size 1 missile (x40) are arriving very fast to hit my ships. My ships have both AMM Vulcan and laser turrets for point defence use.
I already know that my Vulcan size 1 will miss enemy missiles, because the lack of active sensor on missile, but my laser are able to hit this salvo.
Question: I read to somewhere that if the missiles belong all to the same salvo (so linked to the same missile fire control) it is possible to destroy all missile with one shot, but previously messages on events said that my lasers didn't hit THE SALVO AT ALL (destroying only 3/40 and I have a total of 8 lasers in PD). Does it mean that the enemy missiles are independent and not on a unique salvo? If these 40 missiles were belong to the same salvo, will my laser able to destroy all them in 1 shot?
I think there's no way to escape to 40missiles who travel at 42000Km/s

I hope I have been clear, dudes :)
 

Offline Kurt

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2014, 07:42:36 AM »
Look at the jpg attached, this is my first point defence experience.
Looks like some size 1 missile (x40) are arriving very fast to hit my ships. My ships have both AMM Vulcan and laser turrets for point defence use.
I already know that my Vulcan size 1 will miss enemy missiles, because the lack of active sensor on missile, but my laser are able to hit this salvo.
Question: I read to somewhere that if the missiles belong all to the same salvo (so linked to the same missile fire control) it is possible to destroy all missile with one shot, but previously messages on events said that my lasers didn't hit THE SALVO AT ALL (destroying only 3/40 and I have a total of 8 lasers in PD). Does it mean that the enemy missiles are independent and not on a unique salvo? If these 40 missiles were belong to the same salvo, will my laser able to destroy all them in 1 shot?
I think there's no way to escape to 40missiles who travel at 42000Km/s

I hope I have been clear, dudes :)

The reason your AMM's aren't going to hit is not because of a lack of active sensors, it is because the incoming missiles are 26,000 kps faster than your missiles.  That imbalance is way too big to overcome for your AMM's.  That is almost certainly why your lasers aren't hitting as well.  You didn't say if your lasers are mounted in turrets or not, but given the speed of your squadron I'm guessing the tracking speed for your lasers is way lower than the speed of the incoming missiles as well, which would make hits unlikely.  The incoming AMM's are just moving too fast. 

Kurt
 

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 08:02:41 AM »
I think I wasn't clear.
My missile aren't going to hit ok, because enemy missiles are faster (btw messages say because my missiles lack of active sensors); anyway, my lasers mounted turret (4 turrets, triple cannons, 16000Km/s tracking speed), are able to hit this salvo, but they are not able to destroy the entire salvo, only 3 missile on 40, so that I'm stricken by 37 missiles every time, WHY my turrets don't destroy the salvo at all but only 3/40?
 

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 08:25:31 AM »
Ok, I have found the part of wiki who I was looking for:

Quote
Example: Lets say you have a broadside of 10 missiles. The enemy has two twin-Gauss-guns turrets that fire a total of 10 shots, which achieve a 90% hit chance against your missiles. Lets assume the enemy uses a single Fire Controls for both Gauss-gun-turrents.

    If you launch your 10 missiles by a single Fire Control, they are all considered to be the same "salvo". When they strike the enemy he will be able to fire all his 10 shots against your 10 missiles, killing all but one.
    However if you would be using two FCs, then you would present 2 salvos of 5 missiles. The single enemy FC could only engage one of the salvos, completely destroying this one. However the second salvo would remain entirely unengaged, so 5 missiles would get trough.

So, when the enemy fires to me a salvo of 40 missiles, if my 12 single cannons mounted on turrets (4 turrets each with 3 lasers) were able to hit the salvo, I may destroy 12 missiles maximum and not all the missiles. Anyway, because speed, they are able to hit and destroy only 3 missile, 9 laser shots are missing, correct?

About my AMM instead, messages say "1x Vulcan size 1 anti missile missile has no target and no onbard sensors and will therefore self-distruct (x8)
 

Offline Charlie Beeler

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 08:54:32 AM »
That message isn't talking about why your AMM's aren't hitting, it's saying that the original targets no longer exist and since the AMM's don't have onboard sensors to find new targets with they self-destruct.

And your interpretation of beam PD is correct, one beam hit can only kill one missile. 

Personally, I don't use lasers for PD turrets because of they're poor volume performance.  A better early choice is railguns.  While they can't be turreted they make up for that in 4x the volume of fire.  Once gauze cannons get rof 5 they become a better choice for the same hullspace cost. 

One thing a lot of players over look is the max tracking bonus tech.  This only works for beam point defence but is well work it.  What it does is reduce the penalty inflicted when your bfc tracking speed is lower(almost always) than that of the missiles.  It accumulates the offset in 2% increments per 5 second increment that you have said missile tracked by your active sensors. 

Back to your AMM's.  By looking at the tails behind both sets of missiles it is appearent to me that the ASM's will easily overfly your AMM's.  What I mean by this is that movement mechanics will move the faster missiles first and they will move further past the AMM's than can they can makeup to hit from behind.  Steve has made changes in the latest version to intercept, but I don't think he has addressed this movement issue with those changes.
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics - paraphrase attributed to Gen Omar Bradley
 

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 09:52:13 AM »
That message isn't talking about why your AMM's aren't hitting, it's saying that the original targets no longer exist and since the AMM's don't have onboard sensors to find new targets with they self-destruct.

And your interpretation of beam PD is correct, one beam hit can only kill one missile. 

Personally, I don't use lasers for PD turrets because of they're poor volume performance.  A better early choice is railguns.  While they can't be turreted they make up for that in 4x the volume of fire.  Once gauze cannons get rof 5 they become a better choice for the same hullspace cost. 

One thing a lot of players over look is the max tracking bonus tech.  This only works for beam point defence but is well work it.  What it does is reduce the penalty inflicted when your bfc tracking speed is lower(almost always) than that of the missiles.  It accumulates the offset in 2% increments per 5 second increment that you have said missile tracked by your active sensors. 

Back to your AMM's.  By looking at the tails behind both sets of missiles it is appearent to me that the ASM's will easily overfly your AMM's.  What I mean by this is that movement mechanics will move the faster missiles first and they will move further past the AMM's than can they can makeup to hit from behind.  Steve has made changes in the latest version to intercept, but I don't think he has addressed this movement issue with those changes.

I think you are right, if there were a buttom 1s increment, we have been able to see enemy missiles over fly my AMM and in the second increment of 1s, strike my ship.
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Missile salvo and point defence
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 10:02:47 PM »
You won't be able to make AMM's that can shoot down those missiles untill you have internal confinement engines or perhaps a massive power multiplier (I usually research this much higher than actual engine type).
So beam based PD is your best defence against enemy AMM attacks. That and keeping ships well armoured.
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