Range finding Question (Or how do i increase the range on my Beam firing control

[iceball3]

Ok then task one complete. However i have had to restart once again due to encountering the Progenitors in the first system off of Sol and the game proceeding to lag me right out of it. (ie i had a 0% chance to hit the Progenitor ship that was in my path but after it blew up my entire survey fleet it proceeded to park itself off of my Battlegroup and not attack them. So i was stuck in a loop of, you can hit this but we are going to slow time down due to a potential fleet interception to 20 sec, for an ingame month before i said screw it and restarted)

Will take the lessons i learned onto the next game however.

If you were really desperate, you could have very well detonated your ships and came back with longer range missile-using vessels. Self Destruct or Abandon Ship for each.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

or just sm'd your ships back to the capital

[Catman115 (OP)]

or just sm'd your ships back to the capital

Yeah im not that familiar with all of the SM commands yet.

Anywho now im going to attempt to move on to my first real Capital ship, a Light Carrier. First thing is first though, I need a space superiority fighter. I so far have this design:

Raptor class Fighter    452 tons     3 Crew     156.3 BP      TCS 9.04  TH 4.8  EM 0
6637 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 90%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 14    5YR 213    Max Repair 30 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 1   

State Engineering Commune Fighter Ion Drive (4)    Power 15    Fuel Use 51.88%    Signature 1.2    Exp 12%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 3.8 billion km   (6 days at full power)

State Engineering Commune Fighter Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 64 000km     TS: 6637 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 2 2 0 0 0 0
State Engineering Commune Fighter Beam Fire Control (1)    Max Range: 64 000 km   TS: 20000 km/s     84 69 53 37 22 6 0 0 0 0
State Engineering Commune Fighter Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 4.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

State Engineering Commune Fighter Sensor Suite (1)     GPS 48     Range 370k km    Resolution 40

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

And im trying to figure out if i wanna put Box Launchers on it or lasers. And if i made it super slow again. (Imma get this right dammit)

EDIT: Changed the fighter design to its (hopeful) final form.

[Iranon]

I'd split sensors into separate variants (your current passive ones do nothing and almost nothing). I'd also not bother with an engineering bay for something that only stays yout for days, remember that the stated failure rates apply to a ship with a year on its clock, which fighters with 3 days deployment time won't reach.

Missiles vs. Lasers is a huge difference in doctrine and design. Box launcher fighters are viable at 150-300t, while laser fighters generally push the limit of the fighter classification.

[Catman115 (OP)]

Missiles vs. Lasers is a huge difference in doctrine and design. Box launcher fighters are viable at 150-300t, while laser fighters generally push the limit of the fighter classification.

Well then i do believe my question revolves back to which one is better for Space superiority? And what i mean by this is that the fighter can win battles consistently against other Light Craft (ie other Fighters and maybe FAC if the game rules work that way.)

[drejr]

Against NPR opponents, a single beam fighter can massacre any number of fighters as long as it has a speed advantage and they're out of range of any high-resolution offboard sensors. Missile fighters are better against FACs that carry their own sensors.

[Iranon]

As you define it, probably the box launcher variant: I you hav smallish fighters with missile fire controls optimised for other fighter , you can probably pick off small fry without being targeted yourself. Laser fighters generally don't like coming under missile attack, and offensively-used AMMs are often a concern.

What drejr described is a best-case scenario, but still worth considering: After all, you don't need numbers and breaking the laser fighters out when it can achieve flawless victories is both cheaper and doesn't run the risk of running out of ammo.

[doulos05]

The speed is fine, but your fire control tracking speed is too high. That's not bad, per say, but faster tracking suited costs minerals and weight. You could drop it to 10,000 and there would be zero difference in performance. If you could drop it to 7,000 there would still be no change. Try to get as close to your ship speed without going under.

[Catman115 (OP)]

Taken into consideration my thanks. Now then the Carrier itself.
Sinop class Light Carrier    10 150 tons     243 Crew     1417.3 BP      TCS 203  TH 264  EM 0
1300 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 5-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 40     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.99 Years     MSP 873    AFR 82%    IFR 1.1%    1YR 58    5YR 876    Max Repair 143 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 10 months    Flight Crew Berths 35   
Hangar Deck Capacity 4375 tons     

State Engineering Commune Sinop Class Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10200 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
State Engineering Commune Light Vessel Ion Drive (2)    Power 132    Fuel Use 34.27%    Signature 132    Exp 11%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 12.9 billion km   (115 days at full power)

State Engineering Commune CIWS-200 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
State Engineering Commune Heavy Ship Sensor Suite (1)     GPS 14400     Range 58.8m km    Resolution 150

Strike Group
10x Raptor Fighter   Speed: 6864 km/s    Size: 8.74

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I use the term Light Carrier as a delination, <10000 tons is a Light Capital/Cruiser class vessel. >10000 tons is Main fleet Carrier/Battleship. Stupid i know but still. Now then what have i done wrong with this design.

EDIT: Changed around the internals somewhat and shaved 32 tons off of the Raptor class fighter via Tracking speed size on the BFC and added a jump drive. Sadly this mean i may have to just make this a Full fleet carrier or update my line in the sand a bit. Hmmm.

[doulos05]

A few critiques of this, but that's mostly because fighters are a little easier to build. Less space means fewer choices and so you don't get hung up as easily.

1) You'll want to bring along a tanker with your carrier. I think you will find yourself with fuel problems. But that's not bad. Smaller fuel tanks on your combat vessel means more combat load. Just be aware when you build this fleet that you need a tanker to go with each task force.
2) I would put more more MSP on your carrier, but then again you can make Fleet Supply Replenishment ships which carry more MSP.
3) You will need an escort to shoot down missiles. Your CIWS will only stop "leakers", not a proper barrage. The way  I go there is turreted Gauss cannons
4) I see no sensors. I think you need at least basic sensors on every warship. If this warship is ever alone (rest of the fleet destroyed), it has no hope of escape because it can't see the enemy to evade them. It can't direct it's fighters against a target without another ship painting them.
5) You can find space for these things by cutting your flight crew berths to 33 (3 Crew per raptor that you posted x 11 raptors) or drop armor to 4.

[Pixel1191]

Well.

1. Maintenance: Only 873 maintenance supplies is not a lot. Remember, the carrier needs them for not only itself, but for the entire strikegroup attached to it.
2. Fuel: Looks like a single tank and not a big one at that. You take a hit, the tank gets destroyed, you don't have a backup, you're screwed. Also, the amount of fuel is somewhat low (again, remember the strikegroup). As it is now, this ship would need a supply ship and a fuel tanker in constant attendance, or operate within easy reach of a colony with maintenance and fuel capabilities and then what's the point of a carrier in the first place?
3. Sensors: Your fighters don't have any, your carrier is somewhat low on the range, considering the rather massive range on your fighters. Either cut down on fuel for the fighters to bring them more in line with the 60m km range of the carrier sensor, or scale up the sensor to see further. As it is, you're crippling your fighters and you don't give yourself a whole lot of reaction time if something DOES pup onto the sensor.
4. Point Defense: I think you're overestimating the CIWS. It can be quite useful, but on an actual warship, which by design is gonna get targeted by missiles regularly, it's shockingly ineffective. It may manage to thin an incoming salvo by 1 or 2 missiles, but that's about it. This thing either needs some space allocated for proper point defense, or it needs to be more or less permanently fused to one or two dedicated escorts and the carrier is dead if those escorts die.

I see no conceivable way, really, to correct some flaws in this design while staying <10k tons, sorry.

[Catman115 (OP)]

Actually now that i think about it maybe i need to define my weight and classification doctrines. So can i make a few assumptions with these?

NOTE all of these vessels are base weights and whether or not the ships is defensive or offensive determines the need for Jump Drives on board ships that increase the weight dramatically while not changing their role very much.

A) Light Craft Classifications:
1. Box Launcher Fighter: 200T-350T
Role: This is simply a fighter with box launchers. Can be used for local space superiority engagements.
2. Laser Fighter: 400T-500T
Role: This is simply a fighter with lasers. Can be used for local space superiority engagements.
3. FAC: 500T-1000T
Role: Bombers (Maybe armed with Mesons to inflict maximum internal damage for minimal weight usage.)

B) Escort Vessel Classifications:
1. Skirmisher Vessel: 2500T-5000T
Role: Skirmishing in the early stages of the battle, taking missile hit for more important ships, and hunting down fleeing enemies.
2. Anti-Missile Vessel: 3000T-5500T
Role: Protecting the fleet from missiles and or bombers (Armed with anything from AMM Launchers to lasers to Mesons.)
3. Light Missile Vessel: 3000T- 5500T
Role: Light missile boat, it shoots mid or long ranged missiles at the enemy as a first line of missile boats.

C) Destroyer Vessel Classifications:
1. Basic Destroyer: 5000T-8000T
Role: A customize-able, multipurpose vessel capable of being a larger fleet escort, a missile boat, an AMM boat, a laser boat, Jump Tender, or even a sensor boat depending upon loadout.

D) Sub Capital Classifications:
1. Cruiser: 7500T-10000T
Role: Close in knife fighting vessel design to tank hits and deal out large amount of punishment. (Max 5 per fleet due to costs)
2. Missile Cruiser: 7000T-9000T
Role: Lightly armored, fast vessel design to fire ALL THE MISSILES, MILLIONS OF MISSILES, SO MANY frakkING MISSILE YOUR EYES CANNOT COUNT THEM ALL!! MISSILES!!!!!! (Max 5 per fleet due to costs)
3. Light Carrier: 9500T-12000T
Role: Fleet Support Carrier that carries about 10-15 Fighters and/or 10 FAC bombers. Can be the command ship for smaller fleets/defensive fleets and/or a sensor vessel/AMM vessel. (Max 2 per fleet due to costs. If in command of a fleet max 1 per fleet due to defensive nature)
4. Fleet Jump Tender: 7000T-10000T
Role: Jumping offensive fleets into systems without Jump gates. (Max 2 per fleet due to speed concerns and costs)

E) Capital Classifications:
1. Battleship: 10000T-17500T
Role: System superiority vessel designed to have multiple kinds if weapon systems enough CIWS to shoot down most incoming missiles (it is a HUGE target after all),  at least 20 layers of armor, a small number of light craft bays and Huge sensor reach. Commonly a command vessel. This ship is a rock to base the rest of the fleet upon. (Max 2 per fleet due to extreme costs)
2. Main Fleet Carrier: 12000T-20000T
Role: System superiority vessel with at least 50 fighters and/or bombers on board to facilitate the oblivion of other Light Craft/FACs and most smaller vessels in system. Also carries all forms of heavy sensor and major AMM capabilities. Can act as a command vessel. (Max 2 per fleet due to costs)

F) Super Capital Classifications:
1. Dreadnought: 25000T-???T
Role: Sector superiority vessel, armed to the teeth, full of Light Craft, covered in CIWS and AMM capabilities with multiple sensor suites and at least 100 layers of armor. The pride of the empire and a crown jewel upon the Armadas crest. Incredibly expensive, painfully slow to construct, requires massive time and resource investment, this ship causes utter terror among its foes when they get word that it has just passed out of the Capital system, on its way to combat. Almost a fleet in and of itself. (Max 1-2 per empire due to overwhelming costs and strain upon the budget) NOTE: The loss of such a vessel is considered a huge blow to both armada prestige and imperial budgets alike, use with EXTREME care.

Anything i might need to amend and or add would be wonderful. Thanks in advance.

[Catman115 (OP)]

Well.

1. Maintenance: Only 873 maintenance supplies is not a lot. Remember, the carrier needs them for not only itself, but for the entire strikegroup attached to it.
2. Fuel: Looks like a single tank and not a big one at that. You take a hit, the tank gets destroyed, you don't have a backup, you're screwed. Also, the amount of fuel is somewhat low (again, remember the strikegroup). As it is now, this ship would need a supply ship and a fuel tanker in constant attendance, or operate within easy reach of a colony with maintenance and fuel capabilities and then what's the point of a carrier in the first place?
3. Sensors: Your fighters don't have any, your carrier is somewhat low on the range, considering the rather massive range on your fighters. Either cut down on fuel for the fighters to bring them more in line with the 60m km range of the carrier sensor, or scale up the sensor to see further. As it is, you're crippling your fighters and you don't give yourself a whole lot of reaction time if something DOES pup onto the sensor.
4. Point Defense: I think you're overestimating the CIWS. It can be quite useful, but on an actual warship, which by design is gonna get targeted by missiles regularly, it's shockingly ineffective. It may manage to thin an incoming salvo by 1 or 2 missiles, but that's about it. This thing either needs some space allocated for proper point defense, or it needs to be more or less permanently fused to one or two dedicated escorts and the carrier is dead if those escorts die.

Many thanks for the advice.

EDIT: My fighters are currently using this sensor suite
State Engineering Commune Fighter Sensor Suite (1)     GPS 144     Range 1.1m km    Resolution 40
Will this do for their doctrine?

I see no conceivable way, really, to correct some flaws in this design while staying <10k tons, sorry.

See my post before this one, i have amended my lines in the sand.

[Pixel1191]

You will notice, if you try to set these up, they could be a bit...light.

Especially your considered Dreadnought. If you want it armed to the teeth, with parasites, CIWS and THAT much armor (bit on the "much" side for the armor, by the way) it will be nigh impossible to get it even close to 25k tons...unless you want it going for 2 million kilometers at 50km/s and break down twice in that distance. 

With the sizes you considered, you'll always tend to end up on the light side in some regards, mostly in armament tho.

Little example of my own:

Code: [Select]

Ticonderoga class Missile Cruiser    15 000 tons     527 Crew     6816.35 BP      TCS 300  TH 180  EM 840
7500 km/s     Armour 9-54     Shields 28-240     Sensors 72/72/0/0     Damage Control Rating 48     PPV 90
Maint Life 9.06 Years     MSP 5112    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 112    5YR 1680    Max Repair 400 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 5   
Magazine 1258   

General Electric LM-250 (9)    Power 250    Fuel Use 15.2%    Signature 20    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 300 000 Litres    Range 23.7 billion km   (36 days at full power)
Theta R240/153.6 Shields (7)   Total Fuel Cost  45 Litres per hour  (1 075 per day)

CIWS-600 (1x16)    Range 1000 km     TS: 60000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Lockheed Martin Mk 48 Mod 0 SLS (20)    Missile Size 6    Rate of Fire 40
AN/SPG-65 Missile Fire Control (2)     Range 360.6m km    Resolution 20
Perseus ASM (158)  Speed: 90 000 km/s   End: 31.4m    Range: 169.6m km   WH: 36    Size: 6    TH: 1050/630/315
Kingfisher ASM (20)  Speed: 171 500 km/s   End: 32.2m    Range: 331.2m km   WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 571/343/171
Sidearm ASM (30)  Speed: 90 000 km/s   End: 19.6m    Range: 105.8m km   WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 300/180/90

AN/SPY-1A/B Active Search Sensor (1)     GPS 6400     Range 343.5m km    Resolution 20
Thales Mk 1 Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 72     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  72m km
Thales Mk 1 EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 72     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  72m km

ECCM-5 (2)         ECM 50

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Obviously it's somewhat higher-tech than what you currently have available, but the principle doesn't change. I always keep my cruisers at around 14-16 ktons. On lower tech levels, they'll simply be slower and deal less damage. You just have more room to put stuff in, if you scale everything up a bit.

My carriers typically weigh in at around 40k tons, with a strikeforce at around 30 fighters, depending on fighter size. But I don't start making fighters until at least Magneto-Plasma drive, mostly even higher, because I find below that, I don't quite get the combination of speed and armament I would like out of a fighter.

My escorts tend to end up at around 10-12 ktons, because I like ships that carry point defense weapons in sufficient amount (at least 2 quad Gauss turrets, more if I can get it) AND anti-missiles in the same hull. I just don't like devoting two different classes (and therefor) shipyards to what is, in effect, roughly the same role.

As with everything in Aurora, it's a matter of personal preference and what works for you. But for me personally, your ship sizes would be awfully small and I'd have to compensate by using (and losing) LOTS of them, which in turn complicates things like resupply and more importantly: squadron transits.

[Pixel1191]

Well, your fighters having active sensors helps them if they leave the envelope of the carrier. However, how do you know where to send them in the first place?

Your fighters can fly over 3 billion kilometers, according to the design you posted, yet your carrier can't even "see" a hundred million kilometers. So what do you wanna do with all that range on the fighters? Send them out blindly, hoping they find something with their limited sensors?