Author Topic: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions  (Read 141781 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1258
  • Thanked: 158 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1410 on: September 19, 2019, 01:26:38 PM »
Humans can optimistically survive between ~0.10 g and ~1.50 g, but there's no way to set such a range with an optimum of 1.0 g.

True, but there is also no need for the optimum to be 1.0g.  The 'grav factor' for colonization is calculated form the nearest point in the spread, so functionally there is no difference between 0.8g +or- 0.7g and 1.0g plus up to 0.5g or minus up to 0.9g.
 

Offline Hazard

  • Captain
  • **********
  • H
  • Posts: 535
  • Thanked: 48 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1411 on: September 19, 2019, 01:29:19 PM »
Or weighing down the body.

Low gravity worlds are much more tolerable than high gravity worlds relative to the world of origin. While the cardiovascular system will not develop to quite the same level as it doesn't have to fight gravity as much, the remaining differences regarding muscular atrophy and bone density can be handled simply by adding sufficient mass through lead weights at the shoulders and hips attached to a load bearing harness.

The body reacts to stress factors after all, and as long as the stresses are close enough to Earth it won't really matter.
 

Offline Ranged66

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • R
  • Posts: 29
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1412 on: September 19, 2019, 02:02:37 PM »
Regarding gravity tolerances, instead of allowing us to set a range greater or less than the optimum gravity, can we instead have minimum and maximum acceptable gravity boxes? Higher gravity is generally far more dangerous than lower gravity. Experiments on primates have shown that while sustained 1.5 g is survivable indefinitely, 2.0 g is lethal within an hour. However, lower gravity, even microgravity, is far, far more survivable over a long period.

Humans can optimistically survive between ~0.10 g and ~1.50 g, but there's no way to set such a range with an optimum of 1.0 g.

The problem with gravity is that it is a very complex question... it is one thing that a grown adult can survive but can you actually LIVE under those environment without being in the top 10% of the human population in terms of physical and psychological fitness. How about old, sick and children not to mention infants?!?!

No... I think that in terms of actually living most human settlements would need gravitational infrastructure for most gravity and the tolerances probably are very small in real terms, exactly how much is hard to say but these are much more complex questions outside the scope of the game.

I don't believe that humans will ever be able to LIVE on Mars outside a select small elite of fit relatively young people... not unless we manage to overcome gravity issues with some advanced technology in the future for all kind of people.

That 'advanced technology' can be as simple as a big spinning structure you spend a few hours a day in.
 

Online Jorgen_CAB

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • J
  • Posts: 1123
  • Thanked: 90 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1413 on: September 19, 2019, 02:06:48 PM »
Regarding gravity tolerances, instead of allowing us to set a range greater or less than the optimum gravity, can we instead have minimum and maximum acceptable gravity boxes? Higher gravity is generally far more dangerous than lower gravity. Experiments on primates have shown that while sustained 1.5 g is survivable indefinitely, 2.0 g is lethal within an hour. However, lower gravity, even microgravity, is far, far more survivable over a long period.

Humans can optimistically survive between ~0.10 g and ~1.50 g, but there's no way to set such a range with an optimum of 1.0 g.

The problem with gravity is that it is a very complex question... it is one thing that a grown adult can survive but can you actually LIVE under those environment without being in the top 10% of the human population in terms of physical and psychological fitness. How about old, sick and children not to mention infants?!?!

No... I think that in terms of actually living most human settlements would need gravitational infrastructure for most gravity and the tolerances probably are very small in real terms, exactly how much is hard to say but these are much more complex questions outside the scope of the game.

I don't believe that humans will ever be able to LIVE on Mars outside a select small elite of fit relatively young people... not unless we manage to overcome gravity issues with some advanced technology in the future for all kind of people.

That 'advanced technology' can be as simple as a big spinning structure you spend a few hours a day in.

We are still talking about a society with lots of different people of all kinds... not a station with selected personnel that can live under special conditions. In my opinion any such technology need to disrupt life in a very minimal way for a society to function properly.

I imagine that colonies in Aurora do have advanced anti-gravity or gravity manipulation technologies built into its main infrastructure on world that deviates too much. But at some point this technology become very expensive and those worlds are outside the spectrum of colonisation.
 

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Moderator
  • Star Marshal
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 7974
  • Thanked: 4472 times
    • http://www.starfireassistant.com
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1414 on: September 19, 2019, 02:39:51 PM »
Humans can optimistically survive between ~0.10 g and ~1.50 g, but there's no way to set such a range with an optimum of 1.0 g.

True, but there is also no need for the optimum to be 1.0g.  The 'grav factor' for colonization is calculated form the nearest point in the spread, so functionally there is no difference between 0.8g +or- 0.7g and 1.0g plus up to 0.5g or minus up to 0.9g.

Also good point :)
 

Offline Kelewan

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • K
  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1415 on: September 20, 2019, 07:25:17 AM »
Hi,

i had some ideas about managing ground force formations. 
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10498.msg116436#msg116436
 

Offline TMaekler

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 495
  • Thanked: 71 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1416 on: September 23, 2019, 10:47:28 AM »
Maybe the people who colonize on a 0.5g world will change over time like in the Expanse series. Someone who grew up in 0.5g won't at some point be able to live on earth. So you cannot settle back those people at some point.
 

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1258
  • Thanked: 158 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1417 on: September 23, 2019, 09:39:08 PM »
Maybe the people who colonize on a 0.5g world will change over time like in the Expanse series. Someone who grew up in 0.5g won't at some point be able to live on earth. So you cannot settle back those people at some point.

That's why we have Genetic Modification Centres to make (literal) Martians.
 

Offline TMaekler

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 495
  • Thanked: 71 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1418 on: September 24, 2019, 06:30:47 AM »
Maybe the people who colonize on a 0.5g world will change over time like in the Expanse series. Someone who grew up in 0.5g won't at some point be able to live on earth. So you cannot settle back those people at some point.

That's why we have Genetic Modification Centres to make (literal) Martians.
Yes. I was just thinking that it can happen automatically if you settle in a gravity, too far from your original one, but close enough that you can.
 

Offline Bughunter

  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 648
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1419 on: September 24, 2019, 08:59:28 AM »
I don't think this is relevant on the timescale an Aurora game even with C# performance.
 

Offline QuakeIV

  • Registered
  • Commander
  • *********
  • Posts: 354
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1420 on: September 24, 2019, 06:09:21 PM »
I mean, epigenetically at least, you'd probably start seeing noticable changes within a few generations.
 

Offline Father Tim

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1258
  • Thanked: 158 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1421 on: September 25, 2019, 01:10:25 AM »
Yes. I was just thinking that it can happen automatically if you settle in a gravity, too far from your original one, but close enough that you can.


Okay, but what does that do to the value of GenMod/BioTech?  If I can just dump colonists on a body and wait for them to change species grav and/or temp tolerance over time, then there is definitely a point at which I shouldn't bother building Infrastructure, LGI, and/or GeneMod Centres.

I certainly (and I suspect other players do) already view BioTech and GMCs as "luxury goods" that my empires don't bother with until well into their industrial development --  or as part of specific scenario set-up.  If I want a "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" feel then I need 'Lunies', but if I'm playing SPACE:1889 my British Empire has no need of (or desire for) 'super-humans'.

Which brings up the point that in some scenarios, I actively don't want my population mutating to meet colonial conditions.  If I set up a 'John Carter of Mars'-inspired solar system, my Martians, Jovians, and Earthlings need to stay recognizably different.
 
The following users thanked this post: DIT_grue

Offline Steve Walmsley

  • Moderator
  • Star Marshal
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 7974
  • Thanked: 4472 times
    • http://www.starfireassistant.com
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1422 on: September 25, 2019, 03:06:11 AM »
Yes. I was just thinking that it can happen automatically if you settle in a gravity, too far from your original one, but close enough that you can.

For game play reasons I don't think you would want your Empire slowing morphing into many different species. It would be a micromanagement nightmare, especially as new colonists arrived from the old species and you ended up with different species even on the same body.
 
The following users thanked this post: DIT_grue, punchkid

Offline xenoscepter

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • x
  • Posts: 249
  • Thanked: 11 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1423 on: September 26, 2019, 04:34:05 PM »
Can we have a export / import feature for ships, missiles, and player designed components? One for the new ground forces would be nice as well. :)

Ideally it would export not just the stats, but the component tallies and the specifications of the component w/ RP costs.
 

Offline SevenOfCarina

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • Posts: 73
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: C# Aurora v0.x Suggestions
« Reply #1424 on: September 27, 2019, 11:02:31 AM »
Unless I've missed something, Terraforming Modules are still 500 BP while Terraforming Installations are 600 BP and need 250k workers. This seems like a problem? Either modules should be 1200 BP to match the costs of similar components or installation costs should be reduced to ~200 BP.
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55