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Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« on: August 22, 2019, 02:01:37 AM »
Project Starshot:

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--- Project "Starshot" was the Principalities first foray into colonizing the stars. The project's aims were to give the Principality of Sidon the means to begin bringing brave colonists, and the infrastructure to support them, to the far ends of Sol as soon as possible. To this end, Project "Starshot" was considered a success. The project founded the company ArcaneTech, and worked to fund the development of an engine which would take Sidonians to the stars. Breakthroughs in metallurgy allowed conventional hulls to withstand the extreme forces laid on them, while Gallicite cores and Sorium-enriched fuel made it possible to lug these hulks to the furthest reaches of Sol. However, despite breakthroughs in Life Support thanks to the discovery of Mercassium, the Starshot ships were limited to the far reaches of Mars in practice. The Principality decided that this was good enough, however, and gave the green light to Project "Stargaze"



Starshot I


Code: [Select]
Starshot class Colony Ship    12,000 tons     275 Crew     426.6 BP      TCS 240  TH 10  EM 0
41 km/s     Armour 1-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 0
MSP 89    Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 5   
Passengers 500   

ArcaneTech Project Starshot (2)    Power 5    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 5    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 180,000 Litres    Range 30.1 billion km   (8484 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


Starshot II


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Starshot II class Freighter    12,000 tons     77 Crew     238.6 BP      TCS 240  TH 10  EM 0
41 km/s     Armour 1-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 0
MSP 50    Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 203   
Cargo 5000   

ArcaneTech Project Starshot (2)    Power 5    Fuel Use 8.84%    Signature 5    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 180,000 Litres    Range 30.1 billion km   (8484 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


Project Stargaze:

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--- The aims of Project "Stargaze" were three-fold: Firstly, Project "Stargaze" was to determine the mineral wealth of the Sol System. Secondly, Project "Stargaze" was to inspect and determine if certain points within Sol could support FTL travel. Finally, Project "Stargaze" was to serve as a test-bed for the experimental sensors that it was using to carry out it's other two goals, enabling the further refinement of them, as well as other experimental sensors derived from them. Project "Stargaze" was considered a resounding success. With the lessons learned from Project "Starshot", the Stargaze ships would furnish their crews with a full years worth of Life Support, while refinements to ArcaneTech's Starshot engines produced better speed and more range over their predecessors. Project "Greenfield" saw the successful miniaturization of the Starshot engines, enabling the construction of a dedicated interplanetary shuttle craft for survey teams, known as the Greenfield-Class.



Stargaze I


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Stargaze class Science Vessel    3,000 tons     80 Crew     423.6 BP      TCS 60  TH 3  EM 0
50 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/5/1/1     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
Maint Life 19.69 Years     MSP 530    AFR 12%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 3    5YR 39    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Spare Berths 9   

ArcaneTech Project Stargaze (1)    Power 3    Fuel Use 38.97%    Signature 3    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 230,000 Litres    Range 35.4 billion km   (8197 days at full power)

Pioneer Electronics Project Stargaze Gamma Module (1)     GPS 10     Range 500k km    MCR 55k km    Resolution 1
Pioneer Electronics Project Stargaze Beta Module (1)     GPS 100     Range 1.6m km    Resolution 10
Pioneer Electronics Project Stargaze Alpha Module (1)     GPS 1000     Range 5.0m km    Resolution 100
Pioneer Electronics Project Stargaze TH Passive Module (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Pioneer Electronics Project Stargaze EM Passive Module (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km
Gravitational Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour
Geological Survey Sensors (1)   1 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Stargaze II


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Stargaze II class Science Vessel    3,000 tons     60 Crew     273.6 BP      TCS 60  TH 3  EM 0
50 km/s     Armour 1-18     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 6     PPV 0
Maint Life 54.98 Years     MSP 342    AFR 12%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 0    5YR 3    Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 29   
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     

ArcaneTech Project Stargaze (1)    Power 3    Fuel Use 38.97%    Signature 3    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 380,000 Litres    Range 58.5 billion km   (13543 days at full power)

Strike Group
1x Greenfield Shuttle   Speed: 100 km/s    Size: 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Support Ships:


GasMover-Class Tanker:


Code: [Select]
GasMover class Tanker    12,000 tons     90 Crew     495 BP      TCS 240  TH 12  EM 0
50 km/s     Armour 3-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 0
MSP 103    Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Spare Berths 6   

ArcaneTech Glidejet (3)    Power 4    Fuel Use 8.49%    Signature 4    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000 Litres    Range 353.4 billion km   (81795 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

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--- Developed at the conclusion of the Stargaze and Starshot projects, the GasMover was designed both as a means of shunting fuel from one colony to another as well as a test-bed for the further development of in-space refueling. Later on, the GasMover would become a popular civilian tanker, as well as serving as an Inter-System Tanker for the Principality naval arm.



Greenfield-Class Shuttle:


Code: [Select]
Greenfield class Shuttle    500 tons     10 Crew     36.6 BP      TCS 10  TH 1  EM 0
100 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Maint Life 46.49 Years     MSP 46    AFR 2%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 10   

ArcaneTech Project Greenfield (1)    Power 1    Fuel Use 95%    Signature 1    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 40,000 Litres    Range 15.2 billion km   (1754 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
 

Offline Garfunkel

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 11:51:23 AM »
It'll take a looooooong time to survey Sol at 50 km/sec  :P

I don't quite understand the Stargaze II - it seems to only carry a single shuttle. But your shuttle has enough range to reach any major body as it is.
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 03:22:49 PM »
Surveying inside the orbit of Jupiter can be done quite well with conventional engined survey ships.

Getting the jump on surveying before you have the techs to economically exploit them means you can generally get the ground survey completed as well before you start exploiting them.
 

Offline bankshot

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 08:26:53 PM »
I'd recommend splitting the Stargazer I class into separate grav and geo survey vessels.  Including a thermal sensor is a good idea in geo survey ships, and you could consider keeping one of the active sensors but I don't see a need for the EM sensor or all of the active sensors. 

If you can afford to research a 25HS engine the geo survey ship can be commercial (make sure all sensors are 1HS or smaller) so you don't have to worry about maintenance and can drop all but one engineering section.  Use the tonnage to add a second commercial engine.  Your current design can run full throttle for 22 years, so you can probably afford more speed.

The grav survey ship will be military so will need to keep the engineering sections but could also use the same commercial engine(s). 


Disclaimer:  I'm still on my first play-through, so don't follow my advice blindly.   

 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 10:40:40 PM »
I'd recommend splitting the Stargazer I class into separate grav and geo survey vessels.  Including a thermal sensor is a good idea in geo survey ships, and you could consider keeping one of the active sensors but I don't see a need for the EM sensor or all of the active sensors. 

If you can afford to research a 25HS engine the geo survey ship can be commercial (make sure all sensors are 1HS or smaller) so you don't have to worry about maintenance and can drop all but one engineering section.  Use the tonnage to add a second commercial engine.  Your current design can run full throttle for 22 years, so you can probably afford more speed.

The grav survey ship will be military so will need to keep the engineering sections but could also use the same commercial engine(s). 


Disclaimer:  I'm still on my first play-through, so don't follow my advice blindly.   

I recommend strongly against doing such things.  I think splitting geo & grav sensors to multiple ships is one of the biggest mistakes a player can make.  It's akin to playing with 'Real Stars' turned on.  I think survey designs (especially initial survey designs, when there is a serious dearth of ships in space) absolultely need a decent sensor suite, so they can see what is out there (not to mention, it's part of surveying).

Although, for my conventional starts, I do immediately research and build the largest commercial engine I can, and use it (sometimes in multiples) for my survey cruisers, because no one should be exploring the solar system at 41 km/s.  You can't even catch some planets at that speed.

Twenty-two years may have worked for the U.S.S. Stargazer under Picard, but I keep my survey cruisers to five- or six-year missions.
 
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Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 10:50:37 PM »
@bankshot

 --- Well, for what it's worth, I'm not on my first playthrough and I think those are all fine ideas. That said, it is more of a role-play aspect for them to have those sensors. They are prototypes, which when tested will give my empire info on how to better them. I know and you know what the optimal ship design would / should be, but my empire doesn't. Also, from an RP standpoint, having those experimental sensors on one ship streamlines data collection and maintenance of those valuable systems.

@Garfunkel

 --- It's partly for Role-Play, my empire wants the teams on hand and the Stargaze I & II are their support. Partly for mechanics though, as the shuttle accrues no maintenance issues while inside of the Boat Bays. I could put a pair of Boat Bays inside of a PDC, but I'd much rather have the shuttles on hand. Call me vain, but I think it's cooler that way. 8)

@Father Tim

 --- 50 km/s, but still a valid point. This start sees me with a 10,000 Ton Commercial Shipyard in place of the usual 1,000 Ton Naval Shipyard. I tend to SM Add three Fighter Factories and a single spaceport, as the Sidonians are a naturally space-faring people. The Stargaze ships are as much a test-bed for sensors as they are for the newly minted Naval Shipyard which is building them. The Stargaze can only operate for a year at a time on account of Life Support, fuel tanks be damned. They're intended to be scrapped once better ships are developed and see no refueling or overhauls beforehand.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:54:04 PM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 12:52:17 AM »
Splitting geo and grav survey is pretty much an obvious efficiency choice.  Father Tim is simply wrong.

The goal is to get the most survey done per BP, right?  Geo and grav survey can't be done at the same time on the same ship, so it will ALWAYS deliver fewer survey points per BP.

Also, you get more surveying done with geo survey if it is commercial, because it doesn't have maintenance issues.  You can have a 3 year mission and 6 months R&R and it can go back out again, which means more surveying per BP.  By contrast, military ships have a 3 year mission and 1 year of overhaul.

The problem with putting sensors on survey ships is that if you want survey ships to have a multiyear mission, they have to have fairly fuel efficient engines, and thus are fairly slow.  And if they are large, they are going to be detected on large anti-ship active sensors and they won't be able to run.  For a scout, you want small size, speed and a good ratio of sensor ratio to ship cross-section, so that it can detect enemies before it can be targeted.  And cheap and expendable is good.  The geo and grav survey sensors add a lot of cost and size to a scout.

I like having a survey support carrier that travels with the survey squadron and scouts new systems before the survey ships enter it.  They can be very good at their job, instead of trying to have one platform do everything.  My model is more a Battlestar Galactica fleet/squadron as the basic unit rather than the Star Trek solo ship as the basic unit.  The carrier allows a lot of modularity, and I love the idea of a survey squadron avenging the loss of some scouts and survey ships by loading up their somewhat archaic support carriers with up to date railgun fighters and kicking butt.  Instead of independent ships, it is independent squadrons, where the squadron can handle a wide variety of scouting, science and military roles.
 
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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 01:01:10 AM »
I wouldn't do grav survey with conventional engines at all.

The problem is that to exploit a grav survey, you need about 10k RP in propulsion RP to make a jump engine.  Unless you are playing with jump gates on all jump points?  I can't see having jump engines before Nuclear Pulse engines.

Now, geo survey, you could have a sensors scientist and lack a P&P scientist, and it would only be 1500 RP for geo sensor in any case, but grav survey requires a lot more distance traveled than inner system geo-survey.

You would only really want grav survey if you lacked resources exploitable in the Sol system, and you simply can't fully survey Sol with conventional engines, and you certainly can't exploit it without at least nuclear thermal engines.
 

Offline xenoscepter (OP)

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 01:02:36 AM »
@Michael Sandy

 --- That was a good explanation! I might try geo / grav survey fighters on another playthrough. I agree with you on the efficiency claim, however Father Tim brings up a fair point and a decent case for sensors on a Survey Ship. Namely, their assistance in exploration very early on. Thermal and EM Passives allow you to see colonies ahead of time, which tend to be quite "hot". Active Sensors let you see what is out there, i.e. ships, space stations, etc. So there's that.

 --- From a Role-Play standpoint, my empire will have just gotten Jump Point Theory. Thus the Stargaze Project will be tasked with finding out whether this theory holds water, until that is done no data can be collected to even begin researching Jump Drives... at least from my empires standpoint, anyway. As for conventional engines, well they still need to study the TN Materials used in the Conventional Engines before they try to build Nuclear Thermal versions.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 01:06:56 AM by xenoscepter »
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 01:50:23 AM »
Father Tim is presuming that the first ship(s) to enter a system are survey ships.  I don't.  I have dedicated scouts for that.  Before I have jump tenders, I build jump pinnaces in fighter factories.  Long endurance fighters with single ship jump engines.  Because one of my big concerns is revealing the jump point I entered, if that jump point emerges in the inner system somewhere.  Small jump scouts are much less likely to be detected on transit.

Because I scout before the survey ships go in, the only surprises I am likely to encounter is if there is an asteroid base, comet base or listening post, and that is something my geo survey is going to blunder into at some point.  And I would rather have it be small and cheap geo survey ship getting munched than an expensive all-in-one survey vessel getting munched.

I like the RP that you can't start researching jump engines until you find a jump point.  Seems a little odd though, because you need jump theory to get grav sensors.  But having a core RP that shapes your fleet policy, research makes for more interesting story, in my opinion.

As far as geo/grav survey fighters?  I tried them.  Unfortunately they just are not very efficient.  Consider trying to get even 3 HS of engines in.  That is 5 HS for sensor, 3 for engines, 1 HS for fuel... not much for engineering or crew endurance.  You might be stuck with only 2 HS for engines, and that is really slow.  I like 800-1000 ton for grav survey boats.  You can easily put 6 HS worth of engines, 2 HS for fuel, decent endurance, and even a sensor.  Or go up to 1000 tons and give them a single ship jump engine.  Also, they are easy to upgrade that way with new engines.

Interestingly, you can conduct a survey with embarked survey ships.  You get survey points for every survey sensor in the task group, whether they are flying independently, or inside a hangar.

Part of the problem with geo/grav survey fighters is that normally what you use a carrier for is long distance transport.  You are either carrying something with no engines (like a commercial early warning satellite to place near jump points) or boosted engines.  And survey ships have to do a LOT of travelling independently.  You don't want boosted engines on a survey ship, unless you have a lot of tankers resupplying your survey fleet, and even then.  Once you are supporting a survey group several jumps out, the carrier is at least useful for the jump tender capabilities and the ability to repair survey sensors.  Small survey craft are unlikely to carry enough supplies to repair a maintenance failure in a survey sensor.

Operationally, there are a few other problems as well.  If you have picked an engine boost level that gives your survey fighters any speed, you may choose to skimp on engineering and crew endurance.  But this means you HAVE to recall your survey group to go anywhere, and they need to roll back their maintenance clocks on board the carrier a lot.  Which can be inconvenient if the various survey craft return to the carrier at widely separated times because.  And the micro is time-consuming, and the chances that you will forget, and move your carrier resulting in your poor survey craft running out of fuel is high.  I could do without the message spam of xyz survey ship is out of fuel, thanks.

Optimizing TOO much on BP considerations can mean that managing your survey forces take a lot more time and attention.  I like having a large enough endurance and fuel cushion that I only rarely have to worry about them.

I go back and forth on whether or not to go for commercial for geosurvey.  The solution I ended up with was that my geosurvey ships double as tankers and jump tenders as well, at least the 2nd generation geosurvey.  So I often have more geosurvey ships than I need, but they don't cost maintenance, and can serve some double duties.  But you could go the survey boat (less than 1000 ton) strategy for geo survey as well, with survey support carriers and jump tender/tankers in support.  Survey support doesn't have enough hangars to hold the entire group, just to hold any one craft that needs repairs, while generally transporting the boosted engine scouts and engineless jump point monitors that provide security as you explore.
 
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Offline Father Tim

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2019, 07:41:36 AM »
Michael Sandy has a bunch of rules and assumptions for how to conduct surveys that he is then using to justify his choices.  It's circular reasoning.

Worse than that, his math is wrong.  Building two near-identical ships, one with geo and one with grav sensors, is absolutely not more efficient per BP than the same ship with both.  Whether it's more efficient than the same ship with half-and-half is dependant on how you survey, meaning do you fully grav & geo System A before moving on to System B; or do you have grav fleets that just keep moving on, and geo fleets that independently visit 'interesting' systems on their own timetable.

About the only time putting grav & geo sensors on separate hulls makes sense is if you're using the 'carrier & survey parasites' approach.  Now you have the flexibility & simplicity of 'a single ship with both' combined with the ability to be in several places at once.  Sure, sometimes some of your parasites are going to be sitting around doing nothing, but that's good for the parasites (though it may be bad for the carrier).

- - -

As for sensors on survey ships and/or scouts, once again Michael Sandy is extrapolating from his rules for his game.  "It's pointless to have sensors on survey ships because they're always escorted with scouts that go first" is only true if they are indeed always escorted by scouts.  It does not follow that the general rule should be "Never put sensors on survey ships."

= = =

It seems like conventional wisdom on this board is turning into "The Fun Police."  An excited new Aurora player comes along and posts "Check out my Awesome Gun Cruiser" and the first response is "Rip off all those guns and replace them with missiles; missiles are better," the second response is "Rip off those sensors and replace them with magazines; use dedicated scouts'" and the third response is "Rip off those shields and excess armour and goose the engines; missile ships use speed for defence."  There is an implication that 'roleplaying your empire is fine, as long as it leads to 100% efficiency and optimal decisionmaking.'

Somebody posts their low-tech cruiser and the response is "If you put those research points into propulsion instead of electronic hardening, you'd have Ion engines."  Somebody else posts a battlegroup capable of 600 days at full thrust and the response is "Yank all that fuel and instead have a range of 20 days and follow the BG everywhere with six giant supertankers."

I'm getty pretty sick of the response to "What do you think of my Battleship?" being "It should be a carrier instead."
 
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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 10:48:56 PM »
Father Tim, your points about RP based designs is well taken, but your math is WAY off.

It is literally not possible for a combined grav survey and geo survey ship to be more efficient than splitting them up.

You can build a budget grav survey boat for 160 BP or so, and a geo survey boat will cost the same.  Put them on the same ship, it will have roughly the same speed, right?  But to do the same total amount of geo and grav survey will take twice as long.  The surveying part, at least, maybe you could get slightly less than twice with efficient pathing between grav survey nodes and surveying bodies.

Splitting them up also saves because for a given system, the ratio of time required for geo survey and grav survey can vary a lot.  A system with lots of planets and moons will take more geo survey ship time, and a system with very few bodies will take more grav survey time.  If you are conducting multiple surveys at once, you can shift the geo survey vessels to the systems that need it more, while maintaining a consistent amount of grav survey vessels per survey.

And no, ESCORTING with scouts is not what I was talking about.  I send scouts in PRIOR to survey ships entering the system.  Several months prior, while the survey vessels are completing the survey of the previous system in the chain.

And yes, putting sensors on survey ships is a valid RP choice.  But other than providing a bit more strategic information about what killed them, they don't provide much utility.  I do not think you are giving good advice when you suggest that putting sensors on survey vessels is a good way to have them avoid getting eaten.  If you want to scout a system, and not have your scouts get eaten, you need fast scouts who can detect an enemy before they are detected, or at least before they are targeted.  Survey ships are too slow, and often too big to evade detection.  Especially all-in-one survey ships.

As far as "is only true if they are indeed always escorted by scouts", I am trying very hard but I can't come up with a reason why it would not be always true.  I always have scouts embarked on the survey support carriers.  I always have the survey support carriers in the system that is being grav surveyed (in part because they are also flag ships, providing survey bonuses to the whole flotilla).  If somehow all my scouts have been eaten, I am not going to probe a new system without getting more scouts. So what is a plausible scenario for someone with a doctrine of probing ahead of their survey ships NOT doing so?  Logistics somehow failed to plan to build the proper number of scouts, but don't worry, you can go into this system in a ship that is too slow to run away and too big to avoid detection, but it is okay because it has some sensors on it?  I don't get it.

 
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Offline Doren

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2019, 12:55:54 AM »
This is getting super off-topic at this point but oh well

As far as "is only true if they are indeed always escorted by scouts", I am trying very hard but I can't come up with a reason why it would not be always true.  I always have scouts embarked on the survey support carriers.  I always have the survey support carriers in the system that is being grav surveyed (in part because they are also flag ships, providing survey bonuses to the whole flotilla).  If somehow all my scouts have been eaten, I am not going to probe a new system without getting more scouts. So what is a plausible scenario for someone with a doctrine of probing ahead of their survey ships NOT doing so?  Logistics somehow failed to plan to build the proper number of scouts, but don't worry, you can go into this system in a ship that is too slow to run away and too big to avoid detection, but it is okay because it has some sensors on it?  I don't get it.
90% of the time getting into system without scouting results in no casualties why whould anyone ever stop exploring in a fear of losing a mere survey vessel? I possibly cannot understand that. You could have strategical problem with resources and build capacity if you have to save each and every survey vessel but through the whole game?
 

Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2019, 01:58:00 AM »
Doren, 90% of the time, sure.  But I am not actually worried that much about losing a survey vessel as I am its transit being detected.  Had that happen with 7 swarm mother ships, and only the fact that there was a 5 system loop allowed me to withdraw my surviving survey ships away from Earth, confident that I could do so without being followed further.  Yes, those ships detected a transit and followed me, which resulted in me revising my probe strategy for future games.

Losing a survey ship or scout is one thing.  Losing a whole survey flotilla because I do not dare have them transit out?  No thanks.

Every transit of the explorer corps puts my entire civilization at risk.  But failing to explore would leave our civilization to wither and die.
 
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Offline Doren

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Re: Conventional Start Exploration Fleet
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2019, 03:15:44 AM »
Doren, 90% of the time, sure.  But I am not actually worried that much about losing a survey vessel as I am its transit being detected.  Had that happen with 7 swarm mother ships, and only the fact that there was a 5 system loop allowed me to withdraw my surviving survey ships away from Earth, confident that I could do so without being followed further.  Yes, those ships detected a transit and followed me, which resulted in me revising my probe strategy for future games.

Losing a survey ship or scout is one thing.  Losing a whole survey flotilla because I do not dare have them transit out?  No thanks.

Every transit of the explorer corps puts my entire civilization at risk.  But failing to explore would leave our civilization to wither and die.
I guess this has been the hidden agenda that you've been including in your thought process. Now I personally still disagree that you would have to go all the way to prevent this scenario mostly because I've ever only met 3 queens at once and never had problem with them following me except once and even then they just moved to the next system.
I honestly have no idea what you mean by survey flotilla and transiting them out of (I guess from the system with hostiles). Why would there be a flotilla? Especially in a unexplored possibly hostile system? I can understand surveying systems with multiple ships next to starting location since you want to expand fast and if you happen to find anything bad in them you are kind of screwed anyway so might as well risk it. But for far away systems from your home system I find it odd. I guess it is because I tend to use my geo survey vessel (singular) as a forward scout.

So simply put I've never had the situation you ran into so I see very little reason to prepare for it. Might obviously change my mind if I run into 7 Queens and they hop on my homeworld and start meddling with my precious living conditions.
I personally cannot for life of me understand fighter survey fleets. The micro required for fighters, the fuel efficiency, increase in maintenance and the amount of research needed to even enable them (my games tend to be on lower end of the research. I'm personally really waiting for Aurora C# research speed setting). I'd rather go and occasionally expose my geo ship's crew to vacuum of space.
I guess this is why we all love Aurora: it offers so many possible ways to do these things and so many reasons to do so. The problem is though that we seem to tend to go down the rabbit hole of trying to fix all of the issues and coming up with The Perfect Answer.
Perfect answer for very specified situations which might or might not happen. If it doesn't you could say that you were at least prepared for it. Or you could say that you wasted resources and infrastructure on things that never were. These two options would be indistinguishable from each other at that point. Players seem to start leaning towards certain meta as the time goes on.

One of the things I really wait for from Aurora C# is the better NPR. Right now VB Aurora has this problem of Spoilers being very predictable in design and NPR being rather braindead in handling of their ships and empire. I've personally noticed that I at least personally have a bias of designing ships at least somewhat to fight off spoilers. As games tend to go forward designs are more and more designed to combat spoilers since those seem to be the major opponent.

I think I've rambled on on random subjects long enough so I think I should stop now before I write an essay here  :-X