Cold War Comments Thread

[nuclearslurpee]

Every Shiba encountered by the Mintek so far has a technological implant of some sort in the side of their head.  The Shiba, when asked, explained that this is an assistive implant enabling the individual to download documents to long term memory, communicate over short distances, and integrate with the local area networks that the Shiba set up everywhere they go.  The Mintek find this technology extremely interesting, and their cultural mission plans on exploring the possibility of trade relating to this technology as one of the first things they do.

The Shiba state is called the Ascendancy, and from what little has been communicated to date the Mintek have found some comforting similarities to their own nation. 

I don't know enough about Starfire (that is, barely anything) to know if the name of the state is a clue here, but from the description I wonder if the Shiba are another of the same type of race as the Mintek in terms of spreading their belief system (or local-area networking equivalent) once a trade agreement is established. In that case, the Mintek may find themselves to be in for more than they bargained for - and a taste of their own medicine!

That being said, if this is so one would expect the Shiba to agree to a trade agreement a bit more readily, although they may just be a more cautious race by nature and it will happen soon enough?

[Garfunkel]

Obviously, they are the race that Fox McCloud belongs to in STAR FOX:

[Migi]

Thanks for the update Kurt.

Apparently the "Shiba Inu" is a small type of Japanese dog, so I know who just became my favourite race. 

[nuclearslurpee]

Interesting, this continued trend towards amalgamated super-states. Is that typical for later in a Starfire campaign or unique to this setting?

[Migi]

In the intelligence report, what ship class is ML, I assume it isn't Motor Launch or Mine Layer?
Is the Bedu fleet strength the ships that engaged the Mintek in that battle or is it the Bedu reserve ships that were turned over to the Mintek? I thought the remaining Bedu warships were donated to the Bjering but I think I'm getting mixed up with the civilian ships.

Interesting, this continued trend towards amalgamated super-states. Is that typical for later in a Starfire campaign or unique to this setting?

The humans managed to make half a dozen new factions so to save processing power everyone else has to merge 

[misanthropope]

it's pretty convenient to only have one polity to manage, from the player side, tho the economic benefits run small-to-negative.  also all editions of starfire strongly encourage the SM to screw over players, so even if an NPR has a long-settled subservient "partnership" relationship, you (the player) always have to sweat the "nah, they've decided they don't like you anymore" until you eat them.

[Kurt (OP)]

Interesting, this continued trend towards amalgamated super-states. Is that typical for later in a Starfire campaign or unique to this setting?

Well, I don't know if it's common to Starfire campaigns in general, but it is common at this stage in my campaigns.  As the number and size of races increases, the overhead on me to run the campaign increases.  Therefore, I start to feel pressure to reduce the number of races, to keep the campaign manageable.  Also, the rules mandate a certain progression through relationships before the races can amalgamate, so that takes time, meaning that once enough time has passed the amalgamations will begin. 

[Kurt (OP)]

In the intelligence report, what ship class is ML, I assume it isn't Motor Launch or Mine Layer?

The ML is a Light Monitor, the next size up from a superdreadnought. 

Is the Bedu fleet strength the ships that engaged the Mintek in that battle or is it the Bedu reserve ships that were turned over to the Mintek? I thought the remaining Bedu warships were donated to the Bjering but I think I'm getting mixed up with the civilian ships.

That is the ships that engaged the Mintek.  There were a few ships that remained behind at the capital when the battle happened, because they were recently reactivated from the mothballs.  Those ships escorted the refugees into Bjering space, and some of them were turned over the Bjering as payment for allowing the refugees to settle in Bjering territory. 

Interesting, this continued trend towards amalgamated super-states. Is that typical for later in a Starfire campaign or unique to this setting?

The humans managed to make half a dozen new factions so to save processing power everyone else has to merge 

Darned humans.  Always a problem. 

[Kurt (OP)]

it's pretty convenient to only have one polity to manage, from the player side, tho the economic benefits run small-to-negative.  also all editions of starfire strongly encourage the SM to screw over players, so even if an NPR has a long-settled subservient "partnership" relationship, you (the player) always have to sweat the "nah, they've decided they don't like you anymore" until you eat them.

I'm guessing that the economic benefits are negative.  The two merging nations lose trade income, which added together is 20% of the smaller nation's income.  That goes away upon amalgamation.  They do save some money in not having to duplicate system research costs.  There is no savings on the monthly tech level research, since the new amalgamated empire will pay ten percent of its income in monthly research costs, its cost will increase when its income increases from the amalgamation.  But, and this is a large but, two separate nations would have to pay double tech system research costs, and in a reduced income game these research costs are very large.  For example, a race that wanted to develop most of the useful items available at HT-9, a tech level that some of my races have reached, and others are approaching, would have to spend approximately 100,000 MCr's.   That's about four months net income for a race like the Tomsk Union, and only the two largest powers could contemplate making that kind of expenditure in less time, and then only by selling some industry to finance it. 

By far the largest benefit is in player management time required.  By merging the nations, the overhead on the player is significantly reduced.  It's not all positive, because it does result in a larger nation, which requires more time to manage, but there is a significant time savings compared to having to deal with two nations. 

[Paul M]

Well in Starslayer's and my game we are doing both options.  The Theban's have been busy amalgamating and the Shanirian's are confederates and so do not interfere with local politics.  There are other issues as the Shanirian's have had the luck of bumping into massively "standoff" type races other than the Drakes.  The Squids, Moonies, and Cats that say Nieeeee all only trade with the Shanirian's and no other race in the confederacy.  The economies are roughtly the same, the Theban's have a larger economy i'm sure but this has likely as much as I do sub-optimal things with the Shanirian's (benign worlds are limited to 100 IU and emphisising in-system colonization for growth even if growth is reduced).  I will say that I have also had to dig a couple of races out of economic holes (the Squids and the RM) so I limit my sub-optimal stuff to my race.  The Squids actually are doing the Shanirian economics (outside of the IU-limit) but they have had survey luck to beat the band.  Outside of the 100 HS warp point between their home world and the vast bulk of their space.

This all being said there are some hidden benefits to amalgamation.  The saving on development costs is huge, I pay 5 times for the same technology though a saving grace is that not every race develops the same things.  The moonies don't have anti-matter because they have no weapon systems that use it (plasma missile users and purely defensive fighters).  This is not a joke at the higher tech levels where some of the technologies cost big time.   The more important consideration is that it widens the band of planets considered benign.  This is a massive help.  A very poor benign world with full IU has an economic rating of (3200*0.5+1600) = 3200.  A very rich harsh world has an economic rating of (800*1.5+400) = 1600.   So a very poor benign is in the long run worth twice a very rich harsh.   It also simplifies your military though Starslayer still is dealing with refitting fleets to a common standard.  It both improves and worsens your supply issues, but I think the improvement exceeds the small advantage of having different limits for the different races in any system.

Starslayer would have to comment himself but I think the overall differences are so that the amalgamation makes it easier on the player, the whole reduction of the number of NPCs is also an issue, one that the RM (namely me) has failed to address as intended but admittedly they needed to be dug out of an economic pit and now they are stuck in endless refits but they are at least in major net positive income (though the conversion to AAM put them in the pit for several months as their magazine costs are...astronomical).  I think the economics are roughly the same either way but with a potential long term to have more benign worlds than otherwise easily possible.  I am also double settling worlds which at least partially deals with that but this is only done for races where it makes sense, the Moonies and Squids no as they are far to stand off-ish.  The Drakes and Shanirian's are likely "effectively" amalgamated and the Cats made this leap of faith thing so the Shanirian's have been doing their best to give them systems to expand into (hard due to them being utterly in a cul du sack. 

[Migi]

The First and Second Carrier Strike Groups are split

The Imperial Japanese Navy might have some advice about this.

I took another look at the fighter numbers in the previous post, assuming the Mintek had reinforced to full strength and Bjering brought all their personal carriers, they would have the same advantage in ratio of fighters as the Mintek had when they wiped out the Bedu. And the Mintek only lost fighters in that engagement.
On that basis, the Bjering seem to have lost an opportunity to inflict a heavy defeat on the Mintek. (Not that they have benefit of the omniscient view that we do).

[Kurt (OP)]

The First and Second Carrier Strike Groups are split

The Imperial Japanese Navy might have some advice about this.

I took another look at the fighter numbers in the previous post, assuming the Mintek had reinforced to full strength and Bjering brought all their personal carriers, they would have the same advantage in ratio of fighters as the Mintek had when they wiped out the Bedu. And the Mintek only lost fighters in that engagement.
On that basis, the Bjering seem to have lost an opportunity to inflict a heavy defeat on the Mintek. (Not that they have benefit of the omniscient view that we do).

Yeah, when I compiled that I realized that the Bjering had a significant advantage.  But then, the Mintek have consistently been punching up.  And the Bjering really don't want a war, even one they have an advantage at. 

Also, the Mintek military is stretched to the brink of breaking at this point, and they know it.  They have tried to cover all of their weak points, or threat axis, but in doing so have ensured that the deployed forces will almost certainly be too weak to deal with the actual threat, should it arise.  It is a perilous time for them. 

[Migi]

As the Villers system seems likely to be a hotspot, could we have a map of the surrounding territory?
Also IIRC the Alliance knows of another entrance to the Mintek Home system, have they built similar defences around that warp point?

[Kurt (OP)]

As the Villers system seems likely to be a hotspot, could we have a map of the surrounding territory?
Also IIRC the Alliance knows of another entrance to the Mintek Home system, have they built similar defences around that warp point?

The map is a good idea, I'll post later today.

The Alliance knows of three contact points with the Mintek, if I remember correctly. 

The original contact point, leading to the Mintek home world, is the location that the D'Bringi originally discovered the Mintek, and it is in the Phyriseq system.  The Alliance has fortified the warp point with bases, fighters, automated weapons, and a nearby fleet, and believes that the Mintek have done the same.  That is a reasonable belief given the fact that the warp point is located in their home system. 

The second contact point is in the Kure system, which is only two jumps from the Rehorish home world.  While the Alliance knows there is a closed warp point in the system, they don't have the precise location and so cannot fortify it.  They have a sensor network and a fleet in that system, and fortifications in the next system up-stream, towards the Rehorish home world.  Until and unless the Mintek use the closed warp point the Alliance will not be able to localize it. 

The third contact point is in the Juath system, which used to be a Mintek frontier colony.  The Alliance discovered a closed warp point into the system and launched an invasion that captured the frontier colony, but then discovered that the Mintek warp line into the system was also closed, meaning that they couldn't find their way back to the Mintek empire unless they followed a Mintek ship.  The Mintek, who couldn't face the Alliance at that time, cut off the colony and retreated, denying the Alliance a route into their empire. 

This has resulted in a standoff.  Neither side dares waste their fleet in a direct assault on established warp point defenses, fearing that their remaining units would be too weak to face the fleet of their opponent after taking out the fixed defenses.  And neither side will try to exploit the closed warp points they know about, because doing so would open them up to counter-invasion if their attack fails. 

[TheTalkingMeowth]

The D'Bringi's mysterious benefactors make their move!