ECM/ECCM and missiles

[nakorkren (OP)]

In my current game I'm not allowing myself to use missiles, so I haven't experimented much with them, but I'm coming to appreciate the utility of ECM and ECCM. I'm considering using a more balanced doctrine in my next game, when 2.0 comes out, so I'm starting to think about how ECM/ECCM works for missiles. So far pretty much all I know for sure is that when you put an ECM or ECCM module on a missile, it takes up 0.25 missile size points (total of 0.5 if you put both).

I assume when you put ECM on a missile, the missile becomes harder to hit, improving its survivability vs the target fleet's AMMs and PD turrets. This generally seems like a good idea as long as .25 size points is worth more of a reduction in intercept (based on your relative ECM level to the enemy's ECCM level) vs the improvement you could get with an extra .25 size points of engine or agility. However, if you know the enemy has equal or better ECCM, you may as well leave your ECM off and use the extra space on the missile for better speed/fuel/warhead/whatever.

Concerning putting ECCM on a missile... does that neutralize the target ship's ECM, meaning your missile does better than it otherwise would against targets with ECM? Can you achieve the same effect by assigning an ECCM to your launching ship's Missile Fire Controller for the missile's launcher, and if so, wouldn't you always prefer to save the size points/resources on the missile by putting the ECCM on the ship? Or does missile-based ECCM only apply if you also have an active sensor on the missile and it detects the target?

[Garfunkel]

ECM on a ship against a MFC means that the attacking ship has to come closer before it can fire; in other words, the ECM hinders the ability of the fire control to achieve a target lock.

ECCM on a ship added to its MFC counters that and allows the MFC to acquire target lock and thus fire earlier.

ECCM on a missile is, on the other hand, same as ECCM on a BFC, in that it counters the "bonus dodge" that ECM gives a ship (or a missile).

So what ECM and ECCM exactly do depend on whether they are assigned to a ship, a missile fire control or a beam fire control.

[nakorkren (OP)]

Garfunkel, I don't think that's how ECM vs an MFC works (despite what the Wiki says). I know you don't want to read the spoilers on http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12524.msg152871#msg152871 so you don't accidentally learn to much about the new spoiler race, but there's some back and forth inside those spoiler bars that Steve was part of that implies that ECM vs MFC reduces the missile's chance to hit. Can someone else confirm?

Assuming that's true, my original question above still stands wrt ECCM on a missile vs on the launching ship's MFC.

[nuclearslurpee]

Garfunkel, I don't think that's how ECM vs an MFC works (despite what the Wiki says). I know you don't want to read the spoilers on http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12524.msg152871#msg152871 so you don't accidentally learn to much about the new spoiler race, but there's some back and forth inside those spoiler bars that Steve was part of that implies that ECM vs MFC reduces the missile's chance to hit. Can someone else confirm?

Assuming that's true, my original question above still stands wrt ECCM on a missile vs on the launching ship's MFC.

ECM has two effects with regards to missiles:

Against missile fire controls, ECM reduces the lock-on range of the MFC proportionally, so that the MFC can only target and fire at a reduced range. ECCM attached to the missile fire control will counteract this effect following the usual rules for EW components.

Against missiles, ECM reduces the hit chance of the missile, I believe in the same manner as for beam weapons which is as a flat modifier of -10% x ECM level. ECCM included in the missile will counteract this effect.

You therefore need to use ECCM for both the MFC and the missile itself in order to fully counter ECM.

[nakorkren (OP)]

If that's the case, as tech level goes up it becomes more and more important to include ECCM in your missiles. Otherwise, you start giving up 30, 40, 50% hit chance vs an equal tech opponent... Does that jive with everyone's experience designing missiles at higher tech levels, i.e. you must include ECCM on your missiles to stay competitive?

[nuclearslurpee]

Against NPRs I'm not sure, I don't think I've seen a non-spoiler NPR using ECM even if they had the tech for it. Against players absolutely... the tricky part is, if a player race knows that their opponents are stacking max ECCM, they can quietly drop ECM from their missiles to gain back 0.25 MSP for engine/warhead/agility, so there is a complex bit of gambiteering involved as well.

[Droll]

Against NPRs I'm not sure, I don't think I've seen a non-spoiler NPR using ECM even if they had the tech for it. Against players absolutely... the tricky part is, if a player race knows that their opponents are stacking max ECCM, they can quietly drop ECM from their missiles to gain back 0.25 MSP for engine/warhead/agility, so there is a complex bit of gambiteering involved as well.

NPRs do use ECM on their ships, the problem is that in 1.13 they don't use ECCM very consistently in their designs (this is apparently fixed for 2.0).

Of NPRs that are randomly generated in-game, I've seen them come with ECM 3 on their ships. I've even had one with energy shields which I kinda wish wasn't so rare.

[Garfunkel]

I know you don't want to read the spoilers on http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=12524.msg152871#msg152871 so you don't accidentally learn to much about the new spoiler race,

Hahaha, I didn't know that was general knowledge! But yeah, I avoid the spoiler sub-forum like the plague!