Poll

Should I add house rule regarding the agility?

Yes, interception chances are too high
0 (0%)
No, follow the game rules
3 (100%)
Whatever
0 (0%)
I have a better idea (which I will post below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: Missile interception chances  (Read 2950 times)

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Offline Haji (OP)

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Missile interception chances
« on: January 16, 2017, 11:31:01 AM »
I must admit I'm in something of a bind. A problem cropped out recently in the From the Ashes campaign and I'm wondering what to do with it. As I'm actually several updates ahead in terms of game play compared to what I posted (so I can easier retconn things if stuff happens) I can still do something about it without cutting the campaign short. The question is: should I do it at all?

The full problem is described in this topic: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9327.0 but here's the short version. At the technology levels I'm currently at anti-missile interception chances are reaching 75% against missiles using the same technology. If I modify my shipkillers, increasing speed as much as possible, but cutting down warheads, range and sensors, I can decrease the interception chances to 50%. Unfortunately this is still very high. It means in fact that if two fleets fight the most likely result will be that both will run out of ammunition without doing any damage at all. In short all battles, unless they involve massive numerical or technological imbalance, will be reduced to energy weapon duels. And if one side has superior speed and range, that side will win easily and with minimal loses. That, I feel, will be very boring.

I am of course trying to find new ways to bypass anti-missiles, using armor and multiple warheads, but the former isn't really that good and the latter, while showing some promise, may turn out to be insufficient as well as the technology continues to advance even more.

A possible retcon will involve me reducing the amount of space that can be taken by agility, possibly to around 2-3% in which case the interception chances will drop to around 30%, pretty much what can be found in early stages of the game. This change will be only made to the newest missiles (which were designed in an update that was supposed to be released next) as the previous generation anti-missiles have been used extensively in combat and I can't be bothered to replay those battles. At the same time it will mean trying to force the game to conform to my preconceptions, rather than actually playing it. Which is why I'm asking for opinions.

Thank you for your time.
 

Iranon

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 12:59:45 PM »
Imo, bending over backwards to make the game work "as it should" makes things less interesting rather than more.
If everyone is still using a "standard" AMM setup, one could...

- use size-1 ASMs, the defender will spend more on ordnance unless they also have significant beam PD
- use multistage missiles to evade most AMMs/reduce engagement window
- oversaturate enemy fire controls, using single-missile salvos. Again, can be adjusted to... but if nobody did yet, this could be devastating.
- match ship speed with one's own missile and screen them with beam weapons in area defence for much of the approach (matching speed also helps achieving the above without excessive fire controls)
- keep the impasse on the approach, then unleash a barrage of missiles from box launchers at point blank range before things other than CIWSs have time to react. Perhaps aim to oversaturate CIWSs with semi-decoys.

I'd be surprised if things were truly as stale as you think they are... maybe things are actually fresher than what you take as the "standard".
 
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Offline Haji (OP)

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 01:06:59 PM »
Thank you for the answer. And yes, there are some ways to deal with the issue other than house rules. I personally used point blank missile fire in another campaign and multi-warhead missiles seem to be the answer for the moment. And yes it may lead to new interesting developments. But that's the key word - may. I know for a fact that with missile interception chances around 30% I'll have interesting battles starting with missile salvos and moving to energy weapon combat once both sides are empty.

I guess I really should just go ahead and play the game without, as you very accurately pointed out, bending over backwards to make it do what I want. I guess I'm just scared. I've been playing this campaign for a long time now (2-3 years) and there are still many things I want to do with it. It would be enormous shame if I finally got that huge war I've been looking for and it ended up being boring and one sided, which is why I'm dithering so.
 

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 02:10:06 PM »
You could introduce a purely RP technology - some sort of disruption field, or AOE CIWS - that 'destroys' any unarmored missiles, requiring all missiles to mount 1 point of armor.  This would drastically decrease the efficiency of AMMs both coming (have to build ineffective size 2s or slightly more effectize size 3s) and going (everything has armor, need larger WH or accept non-kills), and slow down most missiles (or cut deeply into their fuel/WH).

you could also put in 'scaling limits' on certain technologies, like size 50 actives, to limit the omniscience effect.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 02:11:49 PM by TheDeadlyShoe »
 
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Offline clement

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 06:46:25 AM »
One option I have been toying with is to make the anti-ship missiles range shorter as the interception rate gets closer to 100%. I agree that when the missile interception rate gets above a certain level (~75%) that battles will evolve into energy engagements. When this happens, a short range torpedo may become a viable replacement for the long range anti-ship missile.

I am experimenting with high speed, armored torpedoes that are large enough to cause shock damage. Beam range being 1.5 million kilometers, a torpedo capable of doing 100,000 km/s will cover the distance in 15 seconds. This give the anti-missile defenses very little time to fire anti-missile missiles and with armor should be able to soak several hits. It is all theory right now, but that is something I am planning on testing in my current game.
 
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Offline 83athom

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 09:24:19 AM »
I am experimenting with high speed, armored torpedoes that are large enough to cause shock damage. Beam range being 1.5 million kilometers, a torpedo capable of doing 100,000 km/s will cover the distance in 15 seconds. This give the anti-missile defenses very little time to fire anti-missile missiles and with armor should be able to soak several hits. It is all theory right now, but that is something I am planning on testing in my current game.
I did this in one of my end level tech test games. It works somewhat well, but building enough (and fast enough) to keep up supply for widespread use is sometimes an issue when you have wars on multiple fronts.
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
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Offline Haji (OP)

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2017, 06:10:36 AM »
Thank you all for the answers. I have also been thinking about the issue and to be honest it's both exciting and scary. The truth is, it forces a shift in technology which could lead to very interesting developments, not simply in terms of how battles are fought but also how nations try to bypass the issue. But it could also lead to very dull, very boring fights.

In the and I think I'll roll with the interception chances as they are without adding any house rules. It may bite my in the backside later but having the entire campaign revolve around the same technologies, used the same way, could also be a little stale. As to which of the many proposed designs will be used... I haven't decided yet. Possibly I'll just go ahead and use all of them.
 

Iranon

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Re: Missile interception chances
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2017, 07:30:47 AM »
Good call I think... I'm curious how your factions deal with the issue and how doctrines evolve around it. May they live in interesting times, FOR SCIENCE!, etc.