Author Topic: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).  (Read 2963 times)

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Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Introduction:
Hello and welcome, in this post I will be detailing my doctrine for a game I started less than a week ago, In the game I have decided to do something I rarely do and that is build big ships to start with and not specialise smaller vessels which is what I primarily focus on in most of my other games, the point of this post is to layout my doctrine, ship designs and also circumstances which effect the former, and hopefully you guys will learn something along the way or you can point something out I missed.

Ship Designs:

Class Summary: The Milonis class Battlestar was commissioned in 2134 (86 years after game start - 20% RP) it was originally designed to be able to fulfil the roles of both a carrier and a battleship, but after tests against enemy forces it was deemed to be an excellent vessel in terms of defence but it sorely lacked in other regards, it carries the following specifications.

Specs:
Engines: Two 1440EP 72HS Ion drives propelling the ship at 4000km/s making up 20% of the total tonnage of the ship
Fuel: 20bkm worth of fuel that makes up 10% of the total tonnage (Tanker will always acompany on deployments)
Armour: Ceramic Composite armour that makes up 10% of total tonnage
Weapons: 24 10cm Railguns for Point defence making up 10% of total tonnage
Power: A single Sigma Class reactor capable of outputting 74 power every five seconds, total tonnage comes in at 0.8%
Sensors: a single 500 ton anti ship sensor and a single 250t Anti Missile sensor makes up less than 5% of total tonnage

Command and Control: Featuring an auxiliary control, main engineering and primary flight control
Special: 35% of the ship is taken up by hangars and this allows the Millonis to carry up to 24, 500 ton class fighters, the standard complement is 18 Vipers for PD and Space Supremacy, as well as two Rapyor-A Recon crafts which spot for the fighter wings as well as the carrier, and two raptor-Ms which will provide boarding capability. The vessel also features basic ECM which provides it with some electronic interference capabilities against its enemies.

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Millonis class Battlestar      36,000 tons       797 Crew       4,870.7 BP       TCS 720    TH 2,880    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 7-97       Shields 0-0       HTK 179      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 72
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 3,268    AFR 691%    IFR 9.6%    1YR 1,422    5YR 21,327    Max Repair 720 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 12,000 tons     Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 240    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-1440CA-ID (2)    Power 2880    Fuel Use 96.54%    Signature 1440    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 3,650,000 Litres    Range 18.9 billion km (54 days at full power)

Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-100MM-KWS (Kinetic Weapon System) (24x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Mani Sensor Systems MSS-R48/TR4KKM/S-BFC (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
MK1-Sigma Class Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 73.5    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS93-R100 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 93.7m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS14-R1 (1)     GPS 80     Range 14.3m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Strike Group
2x Raptor-A Recon Craft   Speed: 6005 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-M Boarding Craft   Speed: 6004 km/s    Size: 9.99
18x Viper MKII Space-Superiority-Fighter   Speed: 15013 km/s    Size: 9.99

Class Summary: The Viper MKII which was recently put into service just five years ago in 2144 is the second version of the original Viper class SSF (Space Superiority Fighter), It  pushes itself hard with an engine boost of 3x, it is capable of going up to 15,000km/s which is more than 3x the speed of any Battlestar available, this allows its 100mm (10cm) Railgun to track targets at this speed and as such it is highly accurate, the main drawbacks of the Viper MKII is that its extremely heavy for a fighter and as such even with the extensive hangar bays that Milonis Battlestar's contain, they still can only fit a maximum of 24 Vipers on. For now the Viper MKII is the workhorse of the Navy as it provides my ships their primary offensive capability.

Specs:
Engine: A single 150EP max boosted Ion Drive and makes up 40% of the total tonnage
Fuel: 26,000 Litres/540mkm Range (Operational Range: 270mkm) makes up 5.2% of total tonnage
Armour: Ceramic Composite armour that makes up 5.6% of total tonnage
Weapons: A single 10cm Railgun which takes up 30% of total tonnage
Power: A signle MK-1 Viper Stellerator Fusion Reactor capable of outputting 3 Power, takes up 7.1% of total tonnage
Fire Control: A single 38600km Range and 15,000km/s tracking speed beam fire control which makes up 9% of tonnage

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Viper MKII class Space-Superiority-Fighter      500 tons       26 Crew       145.2 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15013 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 29    5YR 433    Max Repair 75 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-150F-ID (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1725.33%    Signature 150    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 26,000 Litres    Range 0.54 billion km (10 hours at full power)

Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-100MM-AKWS (Advanced Kinetic Weapon System)  (1x4)    Range 38,400km     TS: 15,013 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Mani Sensor Systems MSS-R38.6/TR15KKM/S-BFC (1)     Max Range: 38,400 km   TS: 15,000 km/s     74 48 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
MK1-Viper GCF Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

Class Summary: The Raptor-A which was put into service nearly 22 years ago is an enhanced version of older raptors which were used for geological and gravitational surveying decades prior, the Raptor-As primary purpose is to provide AWACs capability for viper wings and squadrons, for every nine vipers there will be a single raptor behind them, they also provide recon capability for larger vessels and support for worlds without access to active sensors, without a raptor nearby Vipers would be unable to provide long range fire support as they possess no sensors of their own, while the raptors specifications are older and in needs of refits they are still capable and listed below.

Specs:
Engine: A single 60EP Ion Drive which is only boosted to 250%, it makes up 20% of the total tonnage
Fuel: 39,000 Litres/880mkm Range, this makes up 7.8% of the fighters total tonnage
Armour: Ceramic Composite armour that makes up 5.6% of total tonnage
Sensors: A single A/M/S Sensor capable of detecting missiles up to 1mkm away, and a single A/S/S capable of detecting 5000ton vessels up to 51mkm away, these sensors make up 60% of tonnage

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Raptor-A class Recon Craft      500 tons       20 Crew       142.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 60    EM 0
6005 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 8.76 Years     MSP 62    AFR 6%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 22    Max Repair 48 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 days    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-60F-ID (1)    Power 60    Fuel Use 1596.26%    Signature 60    Explosion 24%
Fuel Capacity 39,000 Litres    Range 0.88 billion km (40 hours at full power)

Saglimben Electronics Industries SEI-1MK-A/M/S (1)     GPS 48     Range 11.1m km    MCR 995k km    Resolution 1
Saglimben Electronics Industries SEI-51MK-A/S/S (1)     GPS 4800     Range 51.3m km    Resolution 100

Class Summary: The Raptor-M is a variation on the Raptor-A which replaces the A's sensors for boarding bays allowing a contingent of Federalist marines to board enemy vessels, though due to speed restraints they are only utilised against disabled vessels.

Specs:
Engine: A single 60EP Ion Drive which is only boosted to 250%, it makes up 20% of the total tonnage
Fuel: 18,000 Litres/410mkm Range, this makes up 3.6% of the fighters total tonnage
Armour: Ceramic Composite armour that makes up 5.6% of total tonnage
Special: 250ton Capacity for Boarding Combat Units this makes up 55% of total tonnage

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Raptor-M class Boarding Craft      500 tons       11 Crew       63.9 BP       TCS 10    TH 60    EM 0
6004 km/s      Armour 3-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 6.18 Years     MSP 19    AFR 8%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 13    Max Repair 30 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 days    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-60F-ID (1)    Power 60    Fuel Use 1596.26%    Signature 60    Explosion 24%
Fuel Capacity 18,000 Litres    Range 0.41 billion km (18 hours at full power)

Class Summary: The Ammen class Patrol Ship which was put into service just five years ago at the same time as the viper MKII is the first purpose built military vessel that was not a Battlestar, its role is to provide defence to worlds of the federalist republic where anti capital ship capabilities were lacking, it has one of the highest speeds of any vessel currently in service or being developed and features a significant armour belt allowing it to take hits as well as dodge them, for weapons it features four 20cm railguns which allow it to provide this support, the main drawback of the design is  the cost, with a total build cost of 1111 BP it is expensive for a ship of the size and as such only a few have been deployed since it was put into service.

Specs:
Engine: A Single 840EP boosted Ion Drive which takes up 35% of the total tonnage of the vessel
Fuel: 746,000 Litres/17.7bkm Range which makes up a total tonnage of 13%
Armour: Ceramic Composite armour that makes up 10% of total tonnage
Weapons: Four 20cm Railguns with a range of 160,000km making up 25% of total tonnage
Power: A single 18.3 Power Output Stellarator Fusion Reactor Makes up 2% of total tonnage
Sensors: A single A/S/S which is capable of detecting 5000ton vessels up to 46mkm, makes up 2.6% of total tonnage
Special: Has access to Auxiliary  command and control

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Ammen class Patrol Ship      6,000 tons       204 Crew       1,111.7 BP       TCS 120    TH 840    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 4-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 43      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 4      PPV 28
Maint Life 2.54 Years     MSP 521    AFR 64%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 113    5YR 1,689    Max Repair 420 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-840PS-ID  (1)    Power 840    Fuel Use 126.41%    Signature 840    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 746,000 Litres    Range 17.7 billion km (29 days at full power)

Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-200MM-KWS (Kinetic Weapon System)  (4x4)    Range 160,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 12-4     RM 40,000 km    ROF 15       
Beam Fire Control R192-TS7200 (1)     Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 7,200 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
MKI-Ammen Class Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 16.3    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS46-R100 (1)     GPS 4000     Range 46.8m km    Resolution 100



Doctrine and Game Explanation:


Introduction to the current state of the United Federalist Republics:

In this section I will be covering the current situation of my empire so to provide context to doctrine chosen, decisions made and further developments I have decided to pursue, the empire is called the UFR or United Federalist Republics I started the game around a week ago now and it is around 105 years into the game, below I will list the settings chosen for the game. 

Game Settings:

Maximum Number of systems: 250
Local System Generation Chance %: 50
Local System Generation Spread: 15
Construction Cycle Time: 430000
Difficulty Modifier: 120%
Research Speed: 20%
Terraforming Speed: 100%
Survey Speed: 10%
NPR Generation chance (by player): 30%
NPR Generation Chance (by NPR): 10%
Ruin Generation Chance: 50%
Minimum Comets per System: 0
Truce Countdown 0

-

Know Systems: Yes
Orbital Motion for Planets/Moons: Yes
Orbital Motion for Asteroids: Yes
Generate New Races as NPRs: Yes
Allow Human NPRs: No
Generate non-TN races only: No
Generate Precursors: Yes
Generate Invaders: No (for now)
Generate Star Swarm: Yes
Generate Rahkas: Yes (bugged anyway)
NPRs activate ancient races: No
Realistic Commander  Promotions: Yes
Commander Political Bonuses: No
Inexperienced Fleet Penalties: Yes
All Jump Points are Stable: No
Civilian Shipping lines Active: Yes
Allow Civilian Harvesters: Yes
New Tech from Conquest: Yes



Starting Conditions:

Starting Year: 2048 (Current year is 2151)
Starting System: Sol
TN or Conventional: TN with 20,000 BP to start with and 40,000 RP
Population: 250m
Number of Non-Player-Races: 0



Summary: As you can see with the settings in this game I started off quite weak with half the default population, practically a conventional start and much lower research and survey speed combined with higher NPR difficulty level. The reason I chose these settings was because I wanted a challenge but not so much (Invaders) that I would not have time to build up my empire, the main goal of the campaign when I started it was to test and utilise carriers to help gain more knowledge about them for my next tutorial.

All of these options drastically effected my choice of weapons as well as doctrine which I will discuss later but suffice it to say the reasons I literally am only using railguns is because I have such little RP and had so little in the way of starting labs it was the best early option that could cover both ship-ship and PD in one.



Current Day (2151):

This section will cover the current day situation, including tactical, logistical and strategic as well as the forces currently deployed and the way in which the UFR has operated its military forces for the past 50 years, below is a map of the galaxy 2151, keep in mind it is small but dense as humanity has colonised nearly nine star systems at this point and invested heavily in infrastructure, 10% survey speed also significantly hampers exploration and makes it a lengthy and expensive process.

Heres is a list of what the labels on the map mean:
AGRI = Population World or Agri World, these worlds are as they describe, usually very habitable worlds with good potential for population growth
FHS = Fuel Harvesting System, this system is designated for fuel refining and harvesting, fuel is collected insystem to a single colony and then tankers move that fuel around, they are also usually more heavily guarded and will be deployed with at least some kind of military defence, at minimum a squadron of Vipers.
NO = Naval Outpost, every other system contains a single one of these Naval Outposts, each outpost is expected to be able to refuel, resupply and maintain at minimum a force of 32,000 tons for system and sector defence.
NSG = Naval Staging Ground, Any system which is designated NSG is expected to be able to maintain up to 200,000 tons of Naval forces and 150,000 tons of ground forces at anyone time, it also contains everything a naval outpost contains, a single battlestar is always stationed on these worlds for quick response.
MI = Mining Colonies
MA = Military Academy Colonies







(WIP will fill out rest later)



« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 11:17:39 AM by SpaceMarine »
 
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Online nuclearslurpee

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 12:02:49 PM »
Doctrine and Game Explanation:

Work in progress (will fill out later as this is taking a lot more than i realised, feel free to comment on the designs though)

Aw man...

Quote
Class Summary: The Milonis class Battlestar...

For my money, this is not a good propulsion design. On one hand, the speed is quite low for an ion ship, although since this is a carrier that's not a problem by itself and frankly if this were a missile ship 4000 km/s would be fine, however it does impact the efficiency of your railgun PD. However, you're accomplishing this speed with two overboosted engines and a 2:1 engine mass to fuel ratio. There is no reason to do this, as it is well-known that the optimal ratio of engines to fuel mass is 3:1 and usually the only reason to deviate from this is to have a larger ratio e.g. 4:1 which can reduce fuel use at the cost of more tonnage used for propulsion. This design only increases fuel consumption and explosion rate neither of which is a good thing. I will grant that you need some extra fuel for your fighters, but if you're always accompanied by a tanker I don't think you need nearly as much excess as you've got here. In any case my main issue is the engines, they're overboosted driving up fuel consumption and explosion chance for no real tangible benefits.

You can reclaim some extra tonnage by reducing armor, as a carrier should never be close to the action and with this relatively slow speed you won't be escaping if you do get to close so the armor only delays the inevitable. Additionally you don't really need 3x shuttle bays to resupply your fighters, so you can recover another 1000 tons here. You could also reduce the size of the sensors you use, as without missiles there's no reason for as much range as you have. Finally your BFC is a bit weak for point defense, I would double the range to 96,000 km to get better hit rates close to ~90%, right now you're getting ~80% base accuracy (at 10k km) which is a bit dodgy I feel. With two dozen railguns you can afford a bit larger BFC.

Quote
Class Summary: The Viper MKII...

Looks okay. My main issue with this is that your accuracy at 10k km minimum range is only 74% due to the short range of the BFC, however I don't see much you can do to improve this as the speed is more important particularly for PD capability.

Quote
Class Summary: The Raptor-A...

It's not great and in my view the reason is that it tries to be a multipurpose ship on a fighter hull which just doesn't work. This would be better broken out to have one variant with the same propulsion as a Viper but mounting active sensor(s) instead of railguns, and another one built for long-range scouting with lower speed, longer range, and passive sensors which you currently have none of. As you've got the hangar space (currently the Milonis only loads 11,000 tons of fighters out of 12,000 capacity) there's not much reason not to do this. You need a fast sensor ship that can keep up with your Vipers, otherwise they are forced to travel at the speed of the sensor ship which is quite limiting. On the other hand a long-range recon craft needs...longer range, longer deployment time, and of course passive sensors as an active sensor is just a giant neon Shoot-Me-Now sign.

Quote
Class Summary: The Raptor-M...

Mostly looks fine. The armor probably is not going to do very much, as realistically with only 15 "plates" of armor you'll still get blown up pretty quick. I would use that tonnage to get more speed and range, speed to improve boarding ability and range so it can make it back to the carrier. You don't need 9 days of deployment time for a boarding shuttle.

Quote
Class Summary: The Ammen class Patrol Ship...

Looks fine, though I would use a res-1 active sensor on any beam ship which only has a target acquisition sensor as you gain nothing in combat from the range of a higher-resolution sensor.

----

Generally I note again that your fleet has no passive sensor capability which is a significant limitation. Otherwise it seems broadly reasonable as an overall fleet if a bit limited in that you have really only two kinds of ships plus some fighter classes, after 86 years I would have expected you to have more shipyard capacity to put out a few more supporting classes. I suspect this is an RP consideration though.

I do look forward to seeing the doctrinal information!
 

Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 12:18:47 PM »

1A: In regards to the Battlestar, I wanted 4000km/s but I also wanted to have a lot of other stuff as such the engines came out not as good as I hoped, am also in a 20% research game so its not so simple to change them out at this point so I just consider this part of the design, though magneto plasma just finished so a Block II version will be on the way, and in terms of the BFCs I agree, Also the cargo shuttle is just 1 module and its 500 tons you need it in 1.12 wont be needed in 1.13

2A: Its really hard to fit everything on a beam fighter (i need 1.13 BFCs) so the BFC is a bit limited.

3A: The Raptor is more RP based while fulfing a role and I did develop a raptor-P for passive detections but I havent made any and all the ship designs are in service at this point thats why am showing them as they have all had actual combat experience, I plan to overhaul my raptors as I said in the original post.

4A: I Concur, I wanted to simplify this and make it a variation on the original design of the raptor though and speed isnt that important because it only ever goes to board when am cleaning up enemies or when enemy ships are disabled.

5A: Reasoning for the sensor is that it will practically always be ontop of a colony I will go into more in the doctrine info but basically there is other stuff to provide AS past what it already has.

6A: I will go over it more but in the game I have invested a lot in colonisation and infrastructure, combine this with my "rp" or limits in that I want primarily beamfighters and large vessels not a bunch of small vessels, and thats why, in terms of passive sensors again I think I will start investing in raptor-Ps and begin producing them for my Battlestars.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 12:23:33 PM by SpaceMarine »
 
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Offline liveware

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2021, 03:41:35 PM »
I too am looking forward to your fleet doctrine write up. I've messed around with battlestars a few times but never really got anything amazing out of the concept.
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Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2021, 03:44:30 PM »
I too am looking forward to your fleet doctrine write up. I've messed around with battlestars a few times but never really got anything amazing out of the concept.

Yea I decided to try doing this cause 1.13 anticipation in 1.13 I am gonna do it as well and use the changes to see how much better you can get beam fighters and the like. tomorrow if i have time il fill out the doctrine side
 

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2021, 03:54:49 PM »
Did you ever consider using gauss fighters instead of railguns? I know the reduced accuracy thing really sucks but you can field extremely tiny gauss fighters and build HUGE numbers of them. Going off the concept that a battlestar should have about 80-160 fighters minimum (based on BSG series) it is possible to field these kinds of numbers on a somewhat larger ship than what you have here. But maybe that is too off topic (I don't want to digress too far).
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Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2021, 04:04:20 PM »
Did you ever consider using gauss fighters instead of railguns? I know the reduced accuracy thing really sucks but you can field extremely tiny gauss fighters and build HUGE numbers of them. Going off the concept that a battlestar should have about 80-160 fighters minimum (based on BSG series) it is possible to field these kinds of numbers on a somewhat larger ship than what you have here. But maybe that is too off topic (I don't want to digress too far).

I did consider it but because of the nature of my game being a 20% RP game I didnt want to spend any rp on anything else but a single weapon path really, that being railguns, and for gauss to be effective I would of had to gone heavy into it, also the accuracy difference is staggering.
 

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2021, 04:07:12 PM »
Did you ever consider using gauss fighters instead of railguns? I know the reduced accuracy thing really sucks but you can field extremely tiny gauss fighters and build HUGE numbers of them. Going off the concept that a battlestar should have about 80-160 fighters minimum (based on BSG series) it is possible to field these kinds of numbers on a somewhat larger ship than what you have here. But maybe that is too off topic (I don't want to digress too far).

Actually the main problem you run into if you try to go that small is the fire control. You can get a Gauss cannon as small as 25 tons, and if BFCs were the same as MFCs you could probably get a 50 or 60 ton ship with a boosted engine and high speed. However BFCs currently require you to dedicate more like 100 or 200 tons. The 1.13 changes adding smaller single-weapon BFCs will be a huge change for these kinds of fighters but probably won't let you get down to 50 or 60 tons still.

I did consider it but because of the nature of my game being a 20% RP game I didnt want to spend any rp on anything else but a single weapon path really, that being railguns, and for gauss to be effective I would of had to gone heavy into it, also the accuracy difference is staggering.

Also worth noting that Gauss generally underperforms compared to good old 10cm railguns on fast fighters, because the main advantage Gauss has is the ability to be turreted and that is a moot point when you can use a fast fighter instead of a turret.
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2021, 04:11:32 PM »
Did you ever consider using gauss fighters instead of railguns? I know the reduced accuracy thing really sucks but you can field extremely tiny gauss fighters and build HUGE numbers of them. Going off the concept that a battlestar should have about 80-160 fighters minimum (based on BSG series) it is possible to field these kinds of numbers on a somewhat larger ship than what you have here. But maybe that is too off topic (I don't want to digress too far).

I did consider it but because of the nature of my game being a 20% RP game I didnt want to spend any rp on anything else but a single weapon path really, that being railguns, and for gauss to be effective I would of had to gone heavy into it, also the accuracy difference is staggering.

Fair point. I use a 25% RP malus quite often.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 04:16:06 PM by liveware »
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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2021, 04:13:57 PM »
Did you ever consider using gauss fighters instead of railguns? I know the reduced accuracy thing really sucks but you can field extremely tiny gauss fighters and build HUGE numbers of them. Going off the concept that a battlestar should have about 80-160 fighters minimum (based on BSG series) it is possible to field these kinds of numbers on a somewhat larger ship than what you have here. But maybe that is too off topic (I don't want to digress too far).

Actually the main problem you run into if you try to go that small is the fire control. You can get a Gauss cannon as small as 25 tons, and if BFCs were the same as MFCs you could probably get a 50 or 60 ton ship with a boosted engine and high speed. However BFCs currently require you to dedicate more like 100 or 200 tons. The 1.13 changes adding smaller single-weapon BFCs will be a huge change for these kinds of fighters but probably won't let you get down to 50 or 60 tons still.

I did consider it but because of the nature of my game being a 20% RP game I didnt want to spend any rp on anything else but a single weapon path really, that being railguns, and for gauss to be effective I would of had to gone heavy into it, also the accuracy difference is staggering.

Also worth noting that Gauss generally underperforms compared to good old 10cm railguns on fast fighters, because the main advantage Gauss has is the ability to be turreted and that is a moot point when you can use a fast fighter instead of a turret.

Agree about the turret thing. However I saw a post from someone recently (xenoscepter?) about using turrets with 0 tracking speed on small fighters... I haven't tried that out yet myself but I wonder if that improves anything. Otherwise yes, the BFC size is a problem for small gauss fighters (especially with the current .2 size reduced range bug).
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Offline liveware

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2021, 04:23:16 PM »
Code: [Select]
Millonis class Battlestar      36,000 tons       797 Crew       4,870.7 BP       TCS 720    TH 2,880    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 7-97       Shields 0-0       HTK 179      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 72
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 3,268    AFR 691%    IFR 9.6%    1YR 1,422    5YR 21,327    Max Repair 720 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 12,000 tons     Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 240    Morale Check Required   

Churchill-Catus Drive Systems CCDS-1440CA-ID (2)    Power 2880    Fuel Use 96.54%    Signature 1440    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 3,650,000 Litres    Range 18.9 billion km (54 days at full power)

Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-100MM-KWS (Kinetic Weapon System) (24x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Mani Sensor Systems MSS-R48/TR4KKM/S-BFC (1)     Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 4,000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
MK1-Sigma Class Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 73.5    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS93-R100 (1)     GPS 16000     Range 93.7m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS14-R1 (1)     GPS 80     Range 14.3m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Strike Group
2x Raptor-A Recon Craft   Speed: 6005 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-M Boarding Craft   Speed: 6004 km/s    Size: 9.99
18x Viper MKII Space-Superiority-Fighter   Speed: 15013 km/s    Size: 9.99

I wonder if commercial engines might help? 3.5m fuel is kinda a lot of fuel and 4k km/s isn't terribly fast. Maybe also reduce the armor somewhat as well? I've fielded pretty solid ion era carriers before with commercial engines at about 30 kton displacement. I can't remember how fast they went but I know they had at least 12k (or maybe 15k? memory is hazy) hanger space and something like 50b km range.
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Online nuclearslurpee

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2021, 04:25:27 PM »
Agree about the turret thing. However I saw a post from someone recently (xenoscepter?) about using turrets with 0 tracking speed on small fighters... I haven't tried that out yet myself but I wonder if that improves anything. Otherwise yes, the BFC size is a problem for small gauss fighters (especially with the current .2 size reduced range bug).

AFAIK turrets with zero tracking speed will use your racial tracking speed, which is almost always going to be lower than your ship speed especially on a fast fighter, so it's going to be "better" to just put the naked Gauss gun on your fighter by itself, at which point railguns are just more tonnage-efficient than Gauss until the quite late game.

I wonder if commercial engines might help? 3.5m fuel is kinda a lot of fuel and 4k km/s isn't terribly fast. Maybe also reduce the armor somewhat as well? I've fielded pretty solid ion era carriers before with commercial engines at about 30 kton displacement. I can't remember how fast they went but I know they had at least 12k hanger space and something like 50b km range.

I believe Jorgen does this, mainly so he can use commercial jump drives for his large ships, and it works quite well. The main problem you'll have is that you can't get a fleet from A to B terribly fast if you need a rapid reaction, however if your carriers rely heavily on tanker support anyways this isn't a huge limitation especially if you have a lot of smaller system patrol boats flying around to do the whole warning shots thing.
 

Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2021, 04:29:08 PM »
Code: [Select]
Millonis Block II class Battlestar (P)      36,000 tons       855 Crew       5,247.3 BP       TCS 720    TH 2,880    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 7-97       Shields 0-0       HTK 192      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 104
Maint Life 1.64 Years     MSP 3,366    AFR 691%    IFR 9.6%    1YR 1,477    5YR 22,161    Max Repair 720.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 12,000 tons     Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3   
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 240    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP1440.00 (2)    Power 2880.0    Fuel Use 40.32%    Signature 1440.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,703,000 Litres    Range 21.1 billion km (61 days at full power)

25cm Railgun V40/C4 (4x4)    Range 200,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 15-4     RM 40,000 km    ROF 20       
Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-100MM-KWS (Kinetic Weapon System) (24x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Mani Sensor Systems MSS-R256/TR5KKM/S-BFC  (1)     Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Beam Fire Control R96-TS5000 (2)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R88 (1)     Total Power Output 88.2    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS75-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 75.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (1)     GPS 53     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Strike Group
2x Raptor-A Recon Craft   Speed: 6005 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-M Boarding Craft   Speed: 6004 km/s    Size: 9.99
18x Viper MKII Space-Superiority-Fighter   Speed: 15013 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-P Recon Craft   Speed: 9608 km/s    Size: 9.99

its not done and just a prototype so am not adding it to the OP but its the Block II of the Milonis and features many changes some that I have taken from the advice given, the biggest changes are engine fuel efficiency, proper Ship-Ship weapons and the incorporation of better BFCs, a lot of the design decisions from these vessels will make sense once i have written up the doctrine for you guys to read and how my game is at the moment so just keep that in mind.

But i will say that a battlestar is supposed to combine a carrier and battleship in one atleast thats how it is in BSG
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 04:31:26 PM by SpaceMarine »
 

Offline liveware

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2021, 10:07:13 PM »
Code: [Select]
Millonis Block II class Battlestar (P)      36,000 tons       855 Crew       5,247.3 BP       TCS 720    TH 2,880    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 7-97       Shields 0-0       HTK 192      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 15      PPV 104
Maint Life 1.64 Years     MSP 3,366    AFR 691%    IFR 9.6%    1YR 1,477    5YR 22,161    Max Repair 720.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 12,000 tons     Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3   
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 240    Morale Check Required   

Magneto-plasma Drive  EP1440.00 (2)    Power 2880.0    Fuel Use 40.32%    Signature 1440.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,703,000 Litres    Range 21.1 billion km (61 days at full power)

25cm Railgun V40/C4 (4x4)    Range 200,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 15-4     RM 40,000 km    ROF 20       
Sliwa Weapon Systems SWS-100MM-KWS (Kinetic Weapon System) (24x4)    Range 10,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Mani Sensor Systems MSS-R256/TR5KKM/S-BFC  (1)     Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Beam Fire Control R96-TS5000 (2)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor R88 (1)     Total Power Output 88.2    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS75-R100 (1)     GPS 10500     Range 75.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (1)     GPS 53     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1m km    Resolution 1

ECM 10

Strike Group
2x Raptor-A Recon Craft   Speed: 6005 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-M Boarding Craft   Speed: 6004 km/s    Size: 9.99
18x Viper MKII Space-Superiority-Fighter   Speed: 15013 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Raptor-P Recon Craft   Speed: 9608 km/s    Size: 9.99

its not done and just a prototype so am not adding it to the OP but its the Block II of the Milonis and features many changes some that I have taken from the advice given, the biggest changes are engine fuel efficiency, proper Ship-Ship weapons and the incorporation of better BFCs, a lot of the design decisions from these vessels will make sense once i have written up the doctrine for you guys to read and how my game is at the moment so just keep that in mind.

But i will say that a battlestar is supposed to combine a carrier and battleship in one atleast thats how it is in BSG

I like the choice of 25cm railguns... those I think are a good breakpoint in terms of DPS and armour penetration. 4 of them isn't a alot but since this thing is a carrier first and battleship second (I think?) the 25cm railguns are appropriate and fitting with the overall theme. I'm wondering what shield tech you have available? At 7 layers of armour you may find a few shield generators to be more effective. At 30k ton+ ship size 1 layer of armor can be a huge displacement savings.

Long story short, I think 7 layers of armor is too much. Reduce to 3 or 4 and replace with shields or engines. However for thematic reasons I can understand a heavy armor doctrine.
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Offline SpaceMarine (OP)

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Re: Battlestars and Viper Squadrons (Ion Era Beam fighter Fleet/Doctrine).
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2021, 04:57:21 AM »
I dont have access to any shield technology, 1. for game reasons, 2. For RP reasons, getting better armour tech is already expensive enough let alone researching both. And the reason for heavier armour is because I want these battlestars to actually live up to the name and be flexible ie can take a hit and deal out significant punishment but can also sit back and provide CAS etc