Author Topic: Low-tech multipurpose gunship  (Read 2135 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The0didactus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • T
  • Posts: 29
  • Thanked: 51 times
Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« on: August 19, 2021, 06:47:05 AM »
Started a campaign where I destroyed earth and rebuilt humanity from a very small colony. 300 years later I'm finally at the point where I can build decent ships and the like...things are still very limited. With only 4 research labs and only 1 spaceport, I cannot easily create and modify ships. I'm piecing together a multirole craft, primarily for colonial defense. I have no idea what enemies are out there. Thoughts?


Code: [Select]
Colonial class Gunship      7,491 tons       193 Crew       721.5 BP       TCS 150    TH 469    EM 0
3128 km/s      Armour 5-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 35      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 12      PPV 32
Maint Life 1.16 Years     MSP 120    AFR 224%    IFR 3.1%    1YR 91    5YR 1,362    Max Repair 117.19 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7 months    Morale Check Required   

Ström-Holmberg Military Ion Drive (2)    Power 468.8    Fuel Use 114.11%    Signature 234.38    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres    Range 26.3 billion km (97 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 60,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 20 hours

Gunship Heavy Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 80,000km     TS: 6000 km/s     Power 12-2     RM 20,000 km    ROF 30       
Gunship PD Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 20,000 km    ROF 15       
Sensei Subsystems Targeting Computer (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Conseco Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R5 (2)     Total Power Output 10    Exp 5%

Colonial Guard Standard Issue Naval Search Scanner (1)     GPS 16     Range 5.5m km    MCR 497.5k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
 

Offline Garfunkel

  • Registered
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2797
  • Thanked: 1055 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2021, 06:55:17 AM »
I'd drop the Heavy Laser Turret completely and instead carry more PD turrets. You have only one BFC anyway and if you need to fight something bigger, then a swarm of these guys with a 15 sec ROF can still do just as good damage and range difference is minimal (1 pt of damage instead of 2 at 60,000 km but with two turrets fighting twice as often, you're better off in actual combat).
 

Offline The0didactus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • T
  • Posts: 29
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2021, 06:57:28 AM »
i'll confess that I hate just running ships with lots of little turrets. Usually I like turrets and some kind of big primary weapon for RP purposes...it's a bit more inefficient than normal, in that this is *also*  a turret, but it's possible there will be things out there that are faster than me.

Realistically...I'm fairly doomed if I hit an NPR. Given how their tech generates I'm about 250 years "behind" them...but we'll see.
 

Offline Platys51

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • Posts: 69
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2021, 07:46:49 AM »
Code: [Select]
Colonial class Gunship      7,491 tons       193 Crew       721.5 BP       TCS 150    TH 469    EM 0
3128 km/s      Armour 5-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 35      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 12      PPV 32
Maint Life 1.16 Years     MSP 120    AFR 224%    IFR 3.1%    1YR 91    5YR 1,362    Max Repair 117.19 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7 months    Morale Check Required   

Ström-Holmberg Military Ion Drive (2)    Power 468.8    Fuel Use 114.11%    Signature 234.38    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres    Range 26.3 billion km (97 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 60,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 20 hours

Gunship Heavy Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 80,000km     TS: 6000 km/s     Power 12-2     RM 20,000 km    ROF 30       
Gunship PD Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 20,000 km    ROF 15       
Sensei Subsystems Targeting Computer (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Conseco Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R5 (2)     Total Power Output 10    Exp 5%

Colonial Guard Standard Issue Naval Search Scanner (1)     GPS 16     Range 5.5m km    MCR 497.5k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes
The ship will be prone to SDR sudden disassembly by RNG. You want more maint life in smaller ships as 2 engines breaking by accident can be GG for this ship as suddenly the ship is twice as far from resupply then it was before, with higch chance of another break on the way.

Also, refuel system refuels other ships. Its waste on warship. Another thing is, you want more capacitor tech. Early levels are fast to get. Get 3 to make this ship 3x better.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 07:55:41 AM by Platys51 »
 

Offline kilo

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • k
  • Posts: 249
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2021, 09:15:36 AM »
I would not say that it is prone to unplanned disassembly, as it has backup systems. The high failure rate makes it pretty uneconomical though and the fuel consumption can be spicy in a prolonged war. But let us be honest, it is a warship. They can cost some money. The refueling system is questionable though. One could create fuel depots on planets with surface based fuel hubs or dedicated tankers. Both would be more versatile and cheaper when it comes to maintenance. On top of that, they would not serve at the front line and can be hidden or are pretty hard to take.
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • ***********
  • Posts: 3001
  • Thanked: 2253 times
  • Radioactive frozen beverage.
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2021, 12:03:34 PM »
It is not a good design.

General: Damage Control is a bad idea here. You need to use engineering spaces instead which will give sufficient MSP to keep the ship operational. DCR is not very important for a beam-only ship as the close range of a beam brawl ensures that you won't have time to fix a broken component before you get blown to pieces anyways. Better to use engineering spaces so you can stay operational when, e.g., patrolling a jump point.

On the other hand, an Auxiliary Control would be a good addition here to get more benefit from your officer corps by concentrating them on your limited number of early-game ships.

The armor is probably somewhat excessive, mainly because the protection it offers is not really worth the tonnage that could be used for other purposes (see below).

Propulsion: There is a well-known "3-to-1 Rule" about propulsion design, which is very simply that the space dedicated to fuel should not exceed 1/3 the space dedicated to engines - it can be less, to conserve fuel, but having excess fuel is almost always a waste unless you are building a tanker (and there is no good reason for a multipurpose defense warship to be a tanker). In this case you have 30 HS of engines and 25 HS of fuel - this is purely a waste of fuel, as you could use larger engines with the same total EP (thus, the same cost - no downside here!) and save a lot of fuel due to the better efficiency.

Additionally, 3,128 km/s is very slow for an ion-era ship. The bare minimum for a useful ion drive warship is around 4,000 km/s and even more NPR ion designs will be quicker than this. For a beam-armed ship I'd say anywhere from 4,500 to 5,000 km/s is reasonable. You can achieve this at the cost of some range, or by increasing the overall size of your propulsion section - a pair of size-25 ion engines with 1.2x boost and 865,000 L of fuel will give you 5,000 km/s speed and 26b km range, but requires about 67 HS instead of the 55 you are using now (600 ton difference). There are some good ways to get that tonnage back.

I strongly recommend putting 1000 RP into the Large Fuel Storage as it will save you a lot of BP over using the 1-HS modules.

Weapons: Personally I think turrets for heavy lasers are a waste in most cases. The tonnage that you put into turret tracking speed is tonnage that could be used for more guns (or more engines!) I also agree that more point defense is a good idea, it is a very common newbie mistake to not place enough PD on a ship and then get wrecked by NPR missiles. I'd probably use four non-turret heavy lasers and four 10cm turrets for balanced PD (even better would be 10cm railguns but I understand if RP is a consideration here).

The fire control is overdesigned and under-teched for its purpose, you really do need the range upgrade tech or any beam-armed NPR fleet will have you for breakfast. Even without, I would probably split the BFC into a 4x Speed, 2x Range variant for point defense and a 4x Range 1.7x Speed main weapon variant. This offers redundancy in case of battle damage (important for a ship of decent size).

The reactors are oversized, you produce 10 power and only need 6 (8 if you follow my above rework of the weapons layout). Reduce the reactor size accordingly, though I do still recommend using two reactors for redundancy.

Sensors: The sensor you have is fine, but for a multipurpose warship I think more sensors are needed. At the least size-1 passives are good to make sure that your ship isn't caught unawares, and to allow you to detect other ships without turning on your active sensor(s). If you have the space and RP, a large-resolution active (also size 1) would be good to add also, but you can also have two variants of the class each with a different active sensor resolution (built out of the same shipyard). Once you have the ability to build several classes for your battlefleet, then you can put the passive sensors on specialized ships, but for early-tech multirole ships I think passives are a needed inclusion.

Following these advices, something like the below design is possible. It's not the style of ship I personally would build but I think it is serviceable for the tech level. Note the use of 5x Engineering Spaces instead of a DCR module, which more than doubles the MSP (I've also added a few small maintenance bays to fill tonnage and give enough MSP to repair the engine twice) and gives an acceptable maintenance life. This does come at a small reduction of deployment time and the sacrifice of some armor but I think overall the design is more effective in combat this way.

Off-Topic: Colonial Mk II class Gunship • show

Colonial Mk II class Gunship (P)      7,500 tons       233 Crew       837.4 BP       TCS 150    TH 750    EM 0
5000 km/s      Armour 3-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 48      Sensors 5/6/0/0      DCR 5      PPV 36.8
Maint Life 2.98 Years     MSP 393    AFR 90%    IFR 1.2%    1YR 66    5YR 991    Max Repair 187.50 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP375.00 (2)    Power 750.0    Fuel Use 79.81%    Signature 375.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 870,000 Litres    Range 26.2 billion km (60 days at full power)

15.0cm C1 Visible Light Laser (4)    Range 80,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 6-1     RM 20,000 km    ROF 30       
Single 10cm C1 Visible Light Laser Turret (4x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 20,000 km    ROF 15       
Beam Fire Control R80-TS5100 (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 5,100 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R40-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 40,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Magnetic Mirror Fusion Reactor R4 (2)     Total Power Output 8.1    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS5-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 5.5m km    MCR 497.5k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS25-R100 (1)     GPS 1600     Range 25.7m km    Resolution 100
EM Sensor EM1.0-6.0 (1)     Sensitivity 6.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (1)     Sensitivity 5.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  17.7m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes


Obviously many variations are possible.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 02:25:04 PM by nuclearslurpee »
 

Offline The0didactus (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • T
  • Posts: 29
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2021, 08:31:27 PM »
Taking several suggestions above and combining them in a frankensteinian mix, I have created the following abomination.


Code: [Select]
Colonial class Gunship      7,470 tons       194 Crew       840.8 BP       TCS 149    TH 781    EM 0
5229 km/s      Armour 4-34       Shields 0-0       HTK 41      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 4      PPV 32.2
Maint Life 2.00 Years     MSP 281    AFR 112%    IFR 1.5%    1YR 93    5YR 1,402    Max Repair 195.31 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 7 months    Morale Check Required   

Ström-Holmberg Super Ion Drive (2)    Power 781.2    Fuel Use 88.39%    Signature 390.62    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1,050,000 Litres    Range 28.6 billion km (63 days at full power)

Ström-Holmberg Ion Carronade (2)    Range 100,000km     TS: 5,229 km/s     Power 10-1     RM 10,000 km    ROF 50       
Gunship Heavy Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 6000 km/s     Power 12-2     RM 20,000 km    ROF 30       
Gunship PD Turret (2x1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 20,000 km    ROF 15       
Sensei Mk. II Targeting Computer (1)     Max Range: 128,000 km   TS: 6,000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 38 30 22
Sensei Mk. VII Missile Defense Computer (1)     Max Range: 64,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     84 69 53 38 22 6 0 0 0 0
Conseco Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R5 (2)     Total Power Output 10    Exp 5%

Colonial Guard Standard Issue Naval Search Scanner (1)     GPS 16     Range 5.5m km    MCR 497.5k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes


I truly did not realize I could get so much speed out of ion-age craft. It's been a while since I played and as you can tell I'm not exactly an optimizer. The low-low fuel capacity frightens me, but I'm fairly certain these guys can reach all outlying colonies. Obviously precisely zero people will approve of my biggest "innovation": The speed made me realize low-budget plasma was viable....but I couldn't miss out on the big honkin turret. Good news is I'm making better use of the reactor.

...i'm most disappointed about losing the damage control, though in retrospect this was an obvious extravagance given how beam ships operate.
 

Offline Density

  • Warrant Officer, Class 1
  • *****
  • D
  • Posts: 98
  • Thanked: 44 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2021, 01:08:13 AM »
The low-low fuel capacity frightens me, but I'm fairly certain these guys can reach all outlying colonies.

Conversely, I find slurpie's proposed 26b range excessive for a military ship of this tech level, and suspect it's like that to match your original design's range. There are other ways of getting ships where you want them, namely fuel depots along the way (and a colonly doesn't need a pop to serve this purpose, just a refueling station and fuel). And if there's no suitable bodies along a route you need, there's always tankers. And with a 2 month flight time, it's not like this ship is going to intervene in an ongoing situation that's 20b+ away anyway.

If it were me (and you are not me and don't have to take my suggestions), I'd cut fuel until it was in the 10b to 12b range, and set up fuel bases along my major routes that are no more than 10b away from each other. You could then use that weight for other things... or just cut it and have a ship that's cheaper and smaller (and thus, faster).
 

Offline Zap0

  • Captain
  • **********
  • Posts: 406
  • Thanked: 505 times
Re: Low-tech multipurpose gunship
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2021, 12:02:27 PM »
Re: range, If you use the optimal fuel/engine ratio you can get some good mileage out of your ships.

There are two things I'd consider when judging the range here, what is the ships intended role and how much of a supporting infastructure is there to refuel it on the go?
* OP states colonial defense multirole as the design goal. Defense of a single system suggests a few b km range would be enough, but if these are going to be the only ships you have, having the ability to reach out a bit further or escort other ships is a good enough reason to up the range for flexbility.
* If your game has run for a long time does that mean you have minor outposts and refueling stations spread in every direction and several generations worth of tankers sitting around? If so, extending your range by using them will allow you to make a more focused design with a greater ratio of mission tonnage. If a game is new or you were too small before to set up any such support infrastructure, sure, go with extra range built-in.

With the increased speed your turret only tracks a bit faster than the ship now, that's pretty wasteful. Either up the tracking to something like 12k like in the slurpee's suggestion or switch to guns bolted straight onto the hull. Don't be discouraged from using turreted lasers at all though, they are a) very cool, b) in my last VB6 game I used heavy medium-sized lasers extensively as a counter to fast spoiler FACs. They have a niche.