A question about NPR trade and diplomacy

[Trueknight (OP)]

In my current 5.02 game i 've met a single NPR Race, who turn out to be friendly. After 15 years from first contact we're in pretty good terms, sharing Geo and Grav survey, and we gave each other trade access.

The problem is that, while my civilians have been tradingd my goods to them from day one, in almost 10 years of trade i've never been visited by one of their ships!
I'm not sure if this is WAD or some kind of bug. The NPR has TN capability since it has a few starships (pretty big and fast from the little i've learned from passive sensors) and a colony in the same system of their homeworld. There are some very big ships that are traveling from the homeworld to the colony and back regularly, so i suppose they have freighters too, and of course there are JG connecting Sol and their Homeworld (2 jumps).

I can see 2 possible explanations:

1) They don't have civilan shipping companies, and the cargos i' ve seen are government controlled.

2) They don't know the way to get to Earth, possibly because they can't (want?) make Gravitational Surveys of their own system, or the other system separing us, so they don't know of the JumpGates already in place and ready to be crossed.

It's all of this, or maybe something else, WAD ? I've encountered some kind of strange isolationist? ("You can sell me your goods but I don't even want to know where you live, let alone sell you my wares")

Is there somthing i can do about, in this case? Does Grav survey sharing imply the sharing of already known Jump Points of both races at the moment of the granting, or it only applies to the surveys executed AFTER granting?

Thanks for your help

[MattyD]

Well, I've only played with 5.14 and I've never seen one of my civilian lines send trade goods to the nice aliens 2 jumps away from Sol. I've connected both star systems with jump gates and regularly recieve visits from huge (8x vessels) fleets travelling to Sol, nearly giving me a heart attack when they appear in system.

I've also shared geo and grav surveys and you only receive information on survey completed after the diplomatic agreements are made.

[Trueknight (OP)]

I don't envy you when these fleet arrive in Sol!

Looks like the opposite of my situation...are you sure that they've granted you Trade access? In my case my civies started their trading in the exact day when the aliens granted me access...for a while they moved infrastructure between THEIR homeworld and colony, forgetting about our own colonies!!
Moreover, a lot of my civvies use very old freighters, so the travel between sol and The Commonwelath (so the NPR are called) takes weeks or months and that doesn't help...reminds me a little about the trade between Europe and Asia in the Age of Sail.

Anyhow, does the alien fleet, in your game, stop by Earth for trading?

[MattyD]

Actually, they stop by, but I'm not sure that I've noticed any specific reports of them trading. I wonder where that information might appear. I hope they are trade ships as one of them is number 080 - I'll have to make sure they remain friends, they've been in action though, their homeworld went from colony cost 0 to 2.0 and is now on its way back down. I try to stay well away from their homesystem though. I've got lots of civilian contracts set up moving mines and infrastructure about atm so that could account for the lack of action on my end. They definately offered me trade access a few months after I did, their diplomatic teams must have improved since then as they signed the grav treaty long before I could.

[Hawkeye]

Actually, they stop by, but I'm not sure that I've noticed any specific reports of them trading. I wonder where that information might appear.

You don´t get messages re. trading (at least AFAIK)

If you share grav-survey data, you should be on "friendly" with the aliens. I have never seen relations deteriorate from that point on (of course, if you start blowing their ships up, this might just annoy them a wee little bit  )

[Trueknight (OP)]

Another 4 in game years have passed, and the Commonwealth now considers me an Allied, but still no alien civilian has ever approached Earth or any other of my colonies.
Am I the only one to have met a similiar NPR behaviour? Could it possibly be a bug in NPR AI?

P.S. I suppose that if i colonize that nice moon my dear Allies have left unclaimed in their Homeworld system, they shall see that like an hostile act, am i correct? If not, that would be perfect to verify why they don't trade with me...

[UnLimiTeD]

Yes, that is likely to get them pissed.
However, if your allied, I don't know, might be they don't give a smeg.

[Hawkeye]

Here are the 4.1 rules for diplomacy

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1613&start=0&hilit=diplomacy

I do belive, they are still in effect with 5.14.

This means, once you reach a friendly status, your ships in their systems won´t negatively influenc your diplomatic standing.
Bases in their system are not explicitly mentioned (or I have overread it), but I belive they are treated the same way as ships are.

You might want to back-up your database, bevore establishing an outpost in their system, just in case.

[Beersatron]

It could just be that the NPR Trade Fleets do not see any profit in trading with you at the moment.

I have Earth and 4 colonies each with between 20-80million colonists and at least 1 spaceport but the civies are only trading between Earth and Mars and very rarely will they go to the Colony next door, but never any further. My newest colony is in a very rich system and it is at 80million with the second highest economy - the highest being Earth - yet no trade is happening even though it is only 3 jumps away.

What I have noticed though is that if you set up contracts for the civies to haul something to a colony then once they offload it they will generally then pick up a trade good and drop it off somewhere else. Alas, they normally end up migrating back to Sol, presumably because it is the most lucrative.

When Steve gets back from Vegas I am going to suggest some way of setting a Home Base for the civilian lines so they don't all cluster around Earth. Pre-reqs being a commercial spaceport and maybe the same population level as civilian mining,  maybe even financial centers too.

[UnLimiTeD]

I'd vote for a trade route system that can focus them on planets you want to trade with, and keep them away from the dangerous systems

[nichaey]

I seem to recall some sort of perceived civilian threat variable being mentioned, whereas civilians will not ship through any systems that have seen combat recently. Could that be the reason?

Although it could have just been a suggestion

[Steve Walmsley]

I seem to recall some sort of perceived civilian threat variable being mentioned, whereas civilians will not ship through any systems that have seen combat recently. Could that be the reason?

Although it could have just been a suggestion

Civilians will avoid systems with recent combat, although that reluctance will fade over time.

Steve