Experimental 20 kiloton Missile Ship Concept, Ion / Ceramic Composite

[xenoscepter (OP)]

 --- This is an experimental ship concept I've been toying with, wherein a missile ship is equipped only with M-FCS and uses passive sensors to find targets. It would rely on it's parasites for target lock. The Striker Class is that ship, while the Seeker Class is it's Fire Direction Craft. A small active sensor allows it to engage with it's auxiliary lasers, as well as use them to supplement any PD escorts that it will likely possess. It's fuel and deployment are calculated for a 3 month trip to the OpFor, a 3 month tour at the OpFor and a 3 month return trip. Slow for an Ion era ship, and thinly armored as well, but with a fairly hefty alpha strike and decent backup weapons to go with it. It's Class 10 ASMs are fairly accurate against their intended targets.

Striker Class Missile Frigate:

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Striker Class Missile Frigate       20,000 tons       371 Crew       2,198.1 BP       TCS 400    TH 1,350    EM 0
3375 km/s      Armour 5-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 146      Sensors 90/90/0/0      DCR 20      PPV 104.98
Maint Life 3.91 Years     MSP 1,773    AFR 160%    IFR 2.2%    1YR 184    5YR 2,753    Max Repair 303.7500 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 750 tons     Magazine 600   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Flight Crew Berths 60    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP675.00 (2)    Power 1350.0    Fuel Use 18.82%    Signature 675.00    Explosion 9%
Fuel Capacity 1,705,000 Litres    Range 81.5 billion km (279 days at full power)

12cm Laser, L1 Armored Single Turret (1+5) (2x1)    Range 40,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Beam Fire Control R80-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R8-PB60 (1)     Total Power Output 8    Exp 30%

Size 10 Box Launcher (60)     Missile Size: 10    Hangar Reload 158 minutes    MF Reload 26 hours
Missile Fire Control FC34-R60 (3)     Range 34.2m km    Resolution 60
ASM, Class 10 (60)    Speed: 25,260 km/s    End: 21.4m     Range: 32.5m km    WH: 9    Size: 10.00    TH: 168/101/50

Active Search Sensor AS2-R1 (1)     GPS 5     Range 2.8m km    MCR 253.9k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH18-90 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
EM Sensor EM18-90 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Strike Group
3x Seeker Fire Direction Craft   Speed: 6020 km/s    Size: 4.98

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes*To-Hit Chances are versus a target moving 26,000 km/s at a range of 40,000 kilometers.

Seeker Class Fire Direction Craft:

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Seeker Class Fire Direction Craft (P)      250 tons       6 Crew       45.4 BP       TCS 5    TH 15    EM 0
6020 km/s     Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 16.59 Years     MSP 28    AFR 2%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 3    Max Repair 22.500 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.1 months    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP30.00 (1)    Power 30.0    Fuel Use 122.47%    Signature 15.000    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 29,000 Litres    Range 17.1 billion km (32 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS17-R60 (1)     GPS 720     Range 17.1m km    Resolution 60

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

[kilo]

I guess that It will work pretty well and box launcher spam is still highly effective. There is one downside though, which is your missile. Your missile's range is pretty short, which forces your ship to be well inside the enemy's detection range. The moment you activate your active sensors on your scout fighter, there is a good chance that they will activate theirs and see your missile frigate.
Due to the fact that the scout is rather small, they will most likely not see it and launch everything they have at your frigate. At that point the battle will be decided by the speed of your and your opponent's missiles. The faction with the faster ones will strike first and win the engagement.
If you were running with a missile range of 100M km or more on the other hand, you could fire from outside the enemy's missile or even sensor range. This would ensure that there is no return fire you have to worry about.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I guess that It will work pretty well and box launcher spam is still highly effective. There is one downside though, which is your missile. Your missile's range is pretty short, which forces your ship to be well inside the enemy's detection range. The moment you activate your active sensors on your scout fighter, there is a good chance that they will activate theirs and see your missile frigate.
Due to the fact that the scout is rather small, they will most likely not see it and launch everything they have at your frigate. At that point the battle will be decided by the speed of your and your opponent's missiles. The faction with the faster ones will strike first and win the engagement.
If you were running with a missile range of 100M km or more on the other hand, you could fire from outside the enemy's missile or even sensor range. This would ensure that there is no return fire you have to worry about.

In most of my multi-faction games this is an actual real issue that every faction have to deal with and is why fighters almost always become the main striking force with ship based missiles mainly being very short range for knife fighting ranges. Some development of long range cruise missiles also see action as well though and a size 10 missile should be able to have a pretty good range if you really wanted it too.

I also try to be very careful with restricting myself of using box launched system as they really are too effective game mechanically, so I generally have a few rules on how they can be used. In a design like this I probably would have used the smallest possible launcher that can reload from internal magazines on the basis that box launchers like this are a bit too effective, even if the missiles are quite big.

I probably also would use at least one fire-control per ten missiles or something as well, just so I don't provide too much overkill on smaller ships. It also would be one of my self-restrictions in addition to that reason.

I agree with the assessment that the range of the missiles probably are too short for effective use unless you want the enemy to always be able to retaliate, then you have to hope your missiles are faster than theirs.

[Rich.h]

Nice designs and a viable tactic, the space for 3 fighters is good as you can position them at angles so as to force the enemy to pick and choose only one. It was mentioned about your missile range, and I think you might just need to do a bit of micro work to get this fully operational. Your fighters only have TH15 but can still shift at 6000km/s, so instead once they launch drop their speed to 3000km/s and instantly you half your TH from those. In addition just reduce the frigate speed to zero while it waits for a target lock from the fighters. This way it will only be spotted by an active sensor, and you can be a good distance away at that.

The fighters will be a little vunerable once missiles launch. but as long as your enemy cannot cover the 17mkm sensor range in the 20 minutes it takes your missiles to travel you will be fine, plus having 3 of them means good redunancy. Once the missiles hit, just fire up all engines to maximum speed and run like hell.

[chrislocke2000]

Interesting idea. Might be one that would work with multi stage MIRV missiles. Use lower power engines for the 1st stage and give yourself a substantial range boost that wat.

[misanthropope]

soon as you add multi-srage missiles into the mix (which seem to be necessary given the missile nerf), it feels like the whole package is more-or-less a direct competitor with the basic carrier strikegroup.  after you've settled on a set of specifications, it would seem natural to investigate the cost and overall utility of a carrier whose strikegroup carries the same firepower with the same strike range.

[Jorgen_CAB]

soon as you add multi-srage missiles into the mix (which seem to be necessary given the missile nerf), it feels like the whole package is more-or-less a direct competitor with the basic carrier strikegroup.  after you've settled on a set of specifications, it would seem natural to investigate the cost and overall utility of a carrier whose strikegroup carries the same firepower with the same strike range.

The main benefit with fighters is also dynamic range (using tankers) and the ability to never reveal where the carrier is as they can attack from a completely different vector. Missiles might be a bit cheaper in general though but will always in some for reveal the carriers rough position. There also can be a risk for missiles to be intercepted before separation as well, fighters can disengage if things go wrong in some cases.

[Barkhorn]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

[Jorgen_CAB]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

Speed is a relative thing... I have used many types and I find that really small scouts work super well and you can stock manny of them in many versions, at least for active sensors they work really well.

Here are three example ones...

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Raven Type-1 class Fast Scout Craft      22 tons       1 Crew       9.5 BP       TCS 0    TH 3    EM 0
5831 km/s      Armour 1-0       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP2.50 (1)    Power 2.5    Fuel Use 3394.11%    Signature 2.5    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 1,000 Litres    Range 0.25 billion km (11 hours at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS3-R1 (1)     GPS 4     Range 3.3m km    MCR 301.3k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

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Raven Type-120 class Fast Scout Craft      22 tons       1 Crew       9.5 BP       TCS 0    TH 3    EM 0
5831 km/s      Armour 1-0       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP2.50 (1)    Power 2.5    Fuel Use 3394.11%    Signature 2.5    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 1,000 Litres    Range 0.25 billion km (11 hours at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS16-R120 (1)     GPS 384     Range 16.5m km    Resolution 120

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

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Raven Type-5 class Fast Scout Craft      22 tons       1 Crew       9.5 BP       TCS 0    TH 3    EM 0
5831 km/s      Armour 1-0       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 4%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP2.50 (1)    Power 2.5    Fuel Use 3394.11%    Signature 2.5    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 1,000 Litres    Range 0.25 billion km (11 hours at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS5-R5 (1)     GPS 16     Range 5.7m km    Resolution 5

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
These are slightly smaller than a size 9 missile... 


They are only short range scouts, you can add more fuel for a few more tonnage to increase the range. They also can dock with a tanker for extended range.

[xenoscepter (OP)]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

6020 km/s at Ion Tech... "kinda slow" Lol whut? 8,000 km/s is BLAZING quick for Ion Tech fighters. The fighters have 50% reduced thermal emissions as well. Their range is half of the Striker's M-FCS range, if anything I'd want more range not less.

[xenoscepter (OP)]

 - I honestly think this concept would work better at Magento-Plasma or Internal Fusion tech, since I struggled to get a missile with both good range, good punch AND good accuracy. The M-FCS were set up with the idea that I'd change out used launchers for unused ones ten at a time. Micro-Hell for sure, but eh... tonnage is tonnage. The lasers were an afterthought and the OG was 15,000 tons with roughly half the throw weight, one less fighter and no PD / Auxiliary guns.

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Striker class Missile Destroyer (P)      15,000 tons       273 Crew       1,648.5 BP       TCS 300    TH 1,193    EM 0
3975 km/s      Armour 5-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 96      Sensors 75/75/0/0      DCR 18      PPV 54
Maint Life 4.95 Years     MSP 1,716    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 116    5YR 1,747    Max Repair 268.3125 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 500 tons     Magazine 360    Cryogenic Berths 200   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Flight Crew Berths 40    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP596.25 (2)    Power 1192.5    Fuel Use 20.03%    Signature 596.25    Explosion 9%
Fuel Capacity 1,600,000 Litres    Range 95.9 billion km (279 days at full power)

Size 10 Box Launcher (36)     Missile Size: 10    Hangar Reload 158 minutes    MF Reload 26 hours
Missile Fire Control FC34-R60 (3)     Range 34.2m km    Resolution 60
ASM, Class 10 (36)    Speed: 25,260 km/s    End: 21.4m     Range: 32.5m km    WH: 9    Size: 10    TH: 168/101/50

EM Sensor EM15-75 (1)     Sensitivity 75     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  68.5m km
Thermal Sensor TH15-75 (1)     Sensitivity 75     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  68.5m km

Strike Group
2x Seeker Fire Direction Craft   Speed: 6020 km/s    Size: 4.98

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - This was the one without the PD / Aux guns, instead I had offloaded them to a five kiloton corvette.

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Defender class Corvette (P)      5,000 tons       103 Crew       541.8 BP       TCS 100    TH 400    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 5-26       Shields 0-0       HTK 37      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 14.98
Maint Life 4.44 Years     MSP 1,127    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 92    5YR 1,387    Max Repair 80 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP200.00 (2)    Power 400    Fuel Use 24.29%    Signature 200    Explosion 8%
Fuel Capacity 652,000 Litres    Range 96.6 billion km (279 days at full power)

12cm Laser, L1 Armored Single Turret (1+5) (2x1)    Range 40,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R80-TS12000 (1)     Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 12,000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor R8-PB60 (1)     Total Power Output 8    Exp 30%

Active Search Sensor AS3-R1 (1)     GPS 6     Range 3.1m km    MCR 278.1k km    Resolution 1
EM Sensor EM0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km
Thermal Sensor TH0.2-1.0 (1)     Sensitivity 1     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  7.9m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Jorgen_CAB]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

6020 km/s at Ion Tech... "kinda slow" Lol whut? 8,000 km/s is BLAZING quick for Ion Tech fighters. The fighters have 50% reduced thermal emissions as well. Their range is half of the Striker's M-FCS range, if anything I'd want more range not less.

I think he was talking about the range as in how far the Seekers can travel. You might use them for other purposes than actively scanning a potential target and then additional range can be usefull though. Allthough I tend to use different design for that and much smaller scout crafts in general.

[nuclearslurpee]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

6020 km/s at Ion Tech... "kinda slow" Lol whut? 8,000 km/s is BLAZING quick for Ion Tech fighters. The fighters have 50% reduced thermal emissions as well. Their range is half of the Striker's M-FCS range, if anything I'd want more range not less.

I agree that 6,000 km/s is a decent speed for a spotter, but 8,000 km/s is not what I would call blazing even for ion tech. It is not difficult to reach a speed of 10,000 km/s at ion tech simply by using a large overboost which is a very cheap tech line to research if you plan to use a lot of fighters.

[xenoscepter (OP)]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

I think he was talking about the range as in how far the Seekers can travel. You might use them for other purposes than actively scanning a potential target and then additional range can be usefull though. Allthough I tend to use different design for that and much smaller scout crafts in general.

 - Ah, well yes they'd make poor scouts that much is for sure, but they're really meant to be used for painting targets only. If I want scouts I'll bring scouts; something like this:

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Sprinter Class Fast Scout Craft      125 tons       4 Crew       53.4 BP       TCS 2    TH 10    EM 0
16118 km/s      Armour 1-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 3/3/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 24%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 2    5YR 31    Max Repair 40 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Kittleson Designs T50/40M Boosted Magneto-plasma Drive, Advanced Stealth Type (1)    Power 40    Fuel Use 1562.50%    Signature 9.60    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 31,000 Litres    Range 2.88 billion km (49 hours at full power)

T15/3-3TH Passive Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     Sensitivity 3.3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14.4m km
T15/3-3EM Passive Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     Sensitivity 3.3     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14.4m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
 - Or this:

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Marathon Class Jump Scout      500 tons       16 Crew       129.5 BP       TCS 10    TH 10    EM 0
4007 km/s    JR 1-1000      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 4      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 9.31 Years     MSP 72    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 22    Max Repair 40 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 days    Morale Check Required   

Kittleson Designs J500/1-1000M Jump Drive, Sub-Compact     Max Ship Size 500 tons    Distance 1000k km     Squadron Size 1

Kittleson Designs T100/40M Boosted Magneto-plasma Drive, Advanced Stealth Type (1)    Power 40    Fuel Use 195.31%    Signature 9.60    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 41,000 Litres    Range 7.6 billion km (21 days at full power)

T40/10-11R1 Active Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     GPS 8     Range 5.3m km    MCR 476.3k km    Resolution 1
T100/22EM Passive Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
T100/22TH Passive Sensor Suite, Naval Grade (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
 - They're of a different tech level entirely, but these are the kinds of Fighter scale scouts I typically field.

I agree that 6,000 km/s is a decent speed for a spotter, but 8,000 km/s is not what I would call blazing even for ion tech. It is not difficult to reach a speed of 10,000 km/s at ion tech simply by using a large overboost which is a very cheap tech line to research if you plan to use a lot of fighters.

 - I'd like to see those 10,000 km/s designs, I think I could learn something from them.

[Jorgen_CAB]

The Seekers have much more range than they need.  Consider that they could go from the Sun to Pluto and back, and still have ~3 billion km left.  Meanwhile they're also kinda slow.

Both of these ships could benefit greatly from reduced thermal emission engines.

6020 km/s at Ion Tech... "kinda slow" Lol whut? 8,000 km/s is BLAZING quick for Ion Tech fighters. The fighters have 50% reduced thermal emissions as well. Their range is half of the Striker's M-FCS range, if anything I'd want more range not less.

I agree that 6,000 km/s is a decent speed for a spotter, but 8,000 km/s is not what I would call blazing even for ion tech. It is not difficult to reach a speed of 10,000 km/s at ion tech simply by using a large overboost which is a very cheap tech line to research if you plan to use a lot of fighters.

Yes... it is reasonable to assume you have at the least an x2 if not x2.5 engine power-boost at about Ion technology engines... obviously depends on priorities though. It also depend on how much speed you need and how much you want to spend on space and cost for engines as well... everything have a cost.