How much ASS is to much ASS?

[Borealis4x (OP)]

How many types of Active Search Sensors do you typically equip your ships with? Is it better to have a just a handful of ASS with different resolutions or one huge ASS with just one?

I make sure all my ships have at least a petit size 1 ASS tuned as the lowest resolution for PD purposes. Generally this can detect all missiles at ranges of 1 million km away and I'm satisfied with that. Don't know if its worth enlarging their ASS to get the PD tracking bonus, thought I imagine it'll happen naturally.

Smaller ships make do with 1 addition short-range ASS tuned to 1,000 tons. Larger ships get an additional ASS tuned to 10,000 tons. These sensors start at size 2 and go all the way up to size 20.

I'm thinking of getting some mid-range ASS for my larger ships as well tuned to 5,000 tons, but this might be too much ASS even for me.

How much ASS do you prefer?

 

[nuclearslurpee]

I like big boats and I cannot lie. 

Usually I find myself always desiring bigger sensors than I have placed onto my ships, particularly for missile detection as a larger sensor helps you rack up that sweet, sweet missile tracking bonus that makes beam PD so much more effective. For larger resolutions usually the goal is to detect a target comfortably outside of both your and their weapon ranges, which mainly requires some intuition about missile ranges at a given tech level...but if your opponents only use beam weapons, you do not need much more than a size-1 sensor for pure combat purposes. A big one can still be valuable for reconnaissance of course, especially if you can break into the rear areas and would like to seek and destroy the enemy commerce fleet.

I've found that the NPRs usually use size-6 for most of their naval sensors and size-9 for missile sensors, and as the player should easily be able to outfox the NPRs through superior tactics and doctrine I would conservatively take these as minimum values for a well-developed fleet. For an early game with low starting pop maybe this is not feasible but it is a good goal to strive for and eventually exceed. In my (main) current campaign I have started with size-6 actives across the board, plus size-1s in my combat ships, but I am expecting to upgrade to size-9 for missile warning soon if I can find the tonnage to do so.

This said other players like to use small sensors (size 1 or even smaller!) aboard small craft for patrol, reconnaissance, AWACS, etc. so it definitely depends a lot on your overall fleet doctrine and playstyle. And of course whether you play against NPRs or other player races.

[ISN]

I always like posts like these, they highlight just how differently different people play the game. I don't often use long-range missiles, so I usually just give all my combat ships a size-1 PD ASS and a size-1 general purpose ASS tuned to 5,000 tons, except for my largest ships which get a bigger ASS, maybe size 5 or so, also tuned to 5,000 tons. It's probably not at all optimal, but it's simple and I generally don't have any trouble finding NPR fleets. I probably should get larger PD sensors, though -- I haven't paid much attention to the tracking bonus, which I think is a mistake.

Edit: This applies if I'm only using beam PD. If I'm using AMM PD then I'll typically increase the size of the PD sensor a bit, but I don't think I've ever gotten as large as size 9 or anything like that.

[Bremen]

I'll be honest - I usually exploit the fact that the AI behaves in fairly predictable ways and design to counter that. I seldom see a warship below 7,000 tons so I usually use Resolution 140 and Resolution 1 sensors exclusively. I don't believe the AI currently uses fighters or FACs (I know it sometimes did in VB Aurora, so if I'm right that it doesn't now it's probably just a matter of time). Yes, there is a spoiler race this could backfire against, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.

I usually have size 1 and size 5 versions of the res 1 as well as EM and Thermal passives, and a res 140 designed to match the range of my missiles. A basic beam warship gets the size 1 and sometimes the basic passives, a basic missile ship gets those and the res 140, and command or scout ships get the larger size 5 passives and a dedicated point defense ship gets the size 5 res 1. That way a good sized fleet usually has 1 or 2 of the more expensive but longer range sensors, but any individual ship is still capable of fighting on its own.

I could see the value in very high resolution sensors for long range detection of capital ships (which the AI does build), and a small craft sensor for fighters and FACs (especially if the AI starts using them), but having lots of sensors is a drain on both tonnage and research points, not to mention a bit more work, so I try to streamline them as much as possible.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Active sensors are probably something you should think twice about what you need and why. Turning on an active sensor of anything bigger than around res 5 will quite easily be picked up by enemy EM ship sensors or ground based listening posts at quite a significant distance.

Almost always the ships that I design have some hangar space for small scout craft so ships can see without being seen themselves, that is just a good practice. As I often play multiple human factions the type of sensors and their size obviously will highly fluctuate.

If a ship carry missiles I usually give it an active sensor for engaging their missile at "medium" distance which usually are what I call self defense distance, resolution depends on the fire-controls. For maximum distance some form of AWAC or scout is usually needed to see the target and relay information to the ship firing the missiles. Again... you don't want the enemy to see the missile ship if you can avoid it and you use long range missiles. Same principles as for a carrier, more or less.

Sensors are quite expensive equipment so I think that one should be thinking about how to best use them without making oneself vulnerable to being blind if the wrong ship or ships are targeted.

Pretty much every ship should have at least some resolution 1 sensor capability.

Small scout crafts at 20-30t are quite effective with higher resolution sensors... at about 20+ resolution. They are cheap and you can fit multiple types on even a really small ship. At lower resolution you generally want a bigger scout craft or the sensor mounted directly on a ship.

[xenoscepter]

 --- A minimal package for me consists of a pair of 15 Ton Active Sensors Systems, one at RES1 and the other at RES500, along with a pair of 10 Ton Passive Sensor Systems, EM & TH respectively. For beam ships, a 5 Ton RES1 A.S.S. is typical mounted for the purposes of target acquisition. For missile ships, I typically include a 5 Ton RES1 M-FCS is mated to a 20 Ton RES1 A.S.S. for the purposes of both proximity detection and an emergency backup that can target anything. I sometimes use a multi-spectrum package of five 10 Ton Active Sensor Systems; with a RES1, RES 10, RES 20, RES 100 and RES 500. This suite provides a comprehensive 50 Ton solution for awareness against Missile Fire, Fighters, FACs, Frigates and Flying Fortresses. Add in a pair of 25 Ton Passive Sensors, one of each type, and you have a 100 Ton Commercial Detection Suite that ensures your ships aren't flying blind.

 --- On missile fighters I like me a pair of 20 Ton Active Sensors, one in RES 1 and the other in RES 10. When mated to 5 Ton M-FCS' of the same Resolution, it affords me a very good Anti-Missile, Anti-Fighter targeting suite for only 10% of a 500 Ton fighter's mass. For bomber variants I might replace either the RES 1 or RES 10 with a Sensor / M-FCS combo more suited to their intended targets. On beam fighters... a 5 Ton RES 1 combined with a 5 Ton RES 10 make for excellent auxiliary sensors.

[Zap0]

I'm not too big on large sensors, especially in light of the diminishing returns introduced in C# in regards to the maximum detection range. A 4HS sensor might give you 40m range, a 8HS sensor will give you 56m. That's 40% more for 100% more size. If we could make a massive sensor that has hundreds of millions of km range I might consider making such to carry around in a fleet, but tactically I find there to be little difference between detecting the enemy at 30m or 40m range.

I can see a scenario where you can benefit from 10m or 20m earlier detection if you've got task groups out in the inner solar system and that extra warning is the dfiference between an enemy intercepting you before you make it back to a base or getting there safely. In deep space however, any kind of long-range sensor is going to give your position away.

[Blogaugis]

I, back in VB, used 3 types of active sensors...

Bur for current campaign - I decided to just have 2 types: resolution 1 and resolution 50 (2500 tons).
Size varies between the ship size - the larger the ship, the larger it's sensors.
For fighters - I just use smallest size, res 1 active sensor - the larger ships and stations detect the target, while on fighter it is here just to allow it to fire.
Fighters carrying missiles (bombers)... Now, this is a bit more complicated - it really depends on your intended target and the specifications of your missiles. In my current play-through, I give them 10 ton, 50 resolution, which is the same as Missile Fire Control.

Funnily enough, I've designed 2500 ton size sensors, intended to be used by capital ships (Thermal, EM, ASS Both resolutions) and maximum size fire controls...
So early into the game - just developing nuclear pulse - it does seem a bit overkill, as a huge amount of space is wasted. And with added armor, there is little space for anything else (even on 100,000 ton size battleship design, I had to dump missile armament entirely).

Sensors designed might become feasible once armor technology improves severely.

Or, perhaps, this might be feasible by creating a dedicated sensor ship, with minimal weaponry and armor.

As for smaller ships - I typically go for 50 ton both resolution sensors.


And to answer the OP's question - too much ASS is 3 sensor types and having their size maxed. 

[Polestar]

Different strokes for different folks. For me, there is no such thing as too much awareness.

(Basic tech cost: 30+30k for sensors, 15k+24k+30k for engines)

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 50, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Raven (50@101m, missile@9.1m) (1)     GPS 1800     Range 101.6m km    MCR 9.1m km    Resolution 1

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 1000, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Lynx (1000@275m) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 275.7m km    Resolution 20

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 20k, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Lynx (20k@748m) (1)     GPS 720000     Range 748.3m km    Resolution 400(passive sensor scout omitted)

These ships are among the most expensive in my fleet, and the 1k and 20k sensors can be detected half-way across a system, but they light up hostiles at gratifying ranges, starting at fairly modest tech level. This allows most of my ships to have quite small sensors, saving cost for the fleet as a whole, without losing tactical awareness where I need it.

[Blogaugis]

Different strokes for different folks. For me, there is no such thing as too much awareness.

(Basic tech cost: 30+30k for sensors, 15k+24k+30k for engines)

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 50, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Raven (50@101m, missile@9.1m) (1)     GPS 1800     Range 101.6m km    MCR 9.1m km    Resolution 1

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 1000, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Lynx (1000@275m) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 275.7m km    Resolution 20

Code: [Select]

Omniscient 20k, Mark 1      6,777 tons       197 Crew       2,722.7 BP       TCS 136    TH 1,500    EM 0
11067 km/s      Armour 1-31       Shields 0-0       HTK 21      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.26 Years     MSP 1,853    AFR 122%    IFR 1.7%    1YR 1,226    5YR 18,392    Max Repair 1800 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Morale Check Required   

Incendo IF 60 (1)    Power 1500.0    Fuel Use 35.66%    Signature 1500.00    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 37.2 billion km (38 days at full power)

Omniscient Eye of the Lynx (20k@748m) (1)     GPS 720000     Range 748.3m km    Resolution 400(passive sensor scout omitted)

These ships are among the most expensive in my fleet, and the 1k and 20k sensors can be detected half-way across a system, but they light up hostiles at gratifying ranges, starting at fairly modest tech level. This allows most of my ships to have quite small sensors, saving cost for the fleet as a whole, without losing tactical awareness where I need it.

3 different types of ships...
Since all of them are the same size, I assume that all of them can be built at the same shipyard?

[davidb86]

3 different types of ships...
Since all of them are the same size, I assume that all of them can be built at the same shipyard?

No they could not, as the major difference is the sensor, which in this instance is also the major cost of the ship.  Ship designs that can be built at the same shipyard have a limit (20% IRC) on the cost of the new components installed.  I would guess these sensors are more than 60% of the ship cost.

[d.rodin]

usually i use 3 types of sensors : 1 , 20 and 100 resolution.
size of sensor and sensor composition of a ship depends on ship role:
for example
Missle PD ship should be able to engage missles, so it will have medium res1 senror (2.5 HS usually) and since it is a escort ship it will receive medium res20 sensor.
Missle cruiser will receive medium res100 sensor, and for possible enagagement with enemy fighters and FACs - medium res20 sensor.
Carriers doesn't have sensors at all, but usually have 4 or more fighter scouts.
Beam ships all have only res1 + res20 sensors.
Large groups of ships are accompanied by specialized Surveillance Cruisers and those cruisers have theyr own fighter-scount wing.