NPR homeworld, only 2 million pop?

[imperator1550 (OP)]

So I conquered an NPR world.   It has tons of installations so I'm assuming it is a homeworld.   However, there are only 2 million people on it.   There is also a worker shortage of more than 500 million, so I'm guessing there used to be a lot more people here.         

The colony cost is not 0, but there is enough infrastructure to sustain 54 million people, so they can't have died off due to overcrowding.         

I might have bombed it a couple times, but I stopped after I found out that orbital bombardment does nothing on a forested mountain world.   I used lasers only, no missiles.   There is only 117 atmospheric dust. 

Edit: Can someone tell me how to embed images in posts? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't work.   I think it's automatically inserting a space after every period which breaks the imgur link. 

I didn't even use orbital bombardment or ground strike fighters to support my invasion.    My ground invasion was over in 40 hours so I'm guessing there wasn't too much collateral damage.         

So, where have my slaves new citizens gone?

Edit: Can anyone tell me how to embed images? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't show up.  I think the editor automatically inserting spaces after periods when I save my post and that breaks the imgur link.

[Droll]

So I conquered an NPR world.   It has tons of installations so I'm assuming it is a homeworld.   However, there are only 2 million people on it.   There is also a worker shortage of more than 500 million, so I'm guessing there used to be a lot more people here.         

The colony cost is not 0, but there is enough infrastructure to sustain 54 million people, so they can't have died off due to overcrowding.         

I might have bombed it a couple times, but I stopped after I found out that orbital bombardment does nothing on a forested mountain world.   I used lasers only, no missiles.   There is only 117 atmospheric dust. 

Edit: Can someone tell me how to embed images in posts? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't work.   I think it's automatically inserting a space after every period which breaks the imgur link. 

I didn't even use orbital bombardment or ground strike fighters to support my invasion.    My ground invasion was over in 40 hours so I'm guessing there wasn't too much collateral damage.         

So, where have my slaves new citizens gone?

Edit: Can anyone tell me how to embed images? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't show up.  I think the editor automatically inserting spaces after periods when I save my post and that breaks the imgur link.

I notice that you own larger colonies that house the same alien species in other systems (19m pop). Are you absolutely sure that this is the homeworld? Is this a generated NPR or did it exist from the start, they may have just gone mad colonizing around, drained the population but not fully drained the installations.

How many populated colonies did this race have?

[Zap0]

It has a colony cost of 1.5. I bet the planet spawned with carbon dioxide or otherwise outside of the atmospheric parameters for the species in question, there've been a couple reports of that. Meaning it probably started with a normal population amount and their numbers have been falling since.

Edit: Can anyone tell me how to embed images? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't show up.  I think the editor automatically inserting spaces after periods when I save my post and that breaks the imgur link.

It's a dumb anti-spam measure, you can't embed images before you have ten posts and get an extra space inserted after every full stop.

[Black]

I once almost wiped out the species during the ground combat, so it is possible that they died during the battle.

[imperator1550 (OP)]

So I conquered an NPR world.    It has tons of installations so I'm assuming it is a homeworld.    However, there are only 2 million people on it.    There is also a worker shortage of more than 500 million, so I'm guessing there used to be a lot more people here.         

The colony cost is not 0, but there is enough infrastructure to sustain 54 million people, so they can't have died off due to overcrowding.         

I might have bombed it a couple times, but I stopped after I found out that orbital bombardment does nothing on a forested mountain world.    I used lasers only, no missiles.    There is only 117 atmospheric dust.   

Edit: Can someone tell me how to embed images in posts? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't work.    I think it's automatically inserting a space after every period which breaks the imgur link.   

I didn't even use orbital bombardment or ground strike fighters to support my invasion.     My ground invasion was over in 40 hours so I'm guessing there wasn't too much collateral damage.         

So, where have my slaves new citizens gone?

Edit: Can anyone tell me how to embed images? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't show up.   I think the editor automatically inserting spaces after periods when I save my post and that breaks the imgur link.

I notice that you own larger colonies that house the same alien species in other systems (19m pop).  Are you absolutely sure that this is the homeworld? Is this a generated NPR or did it exist from the start, they may have just gone mad colonizing around, drained the population but not fully drained the installations.

How many populated colonies did this race have?

The other colony had much smaller EM and Thermal signals, both around 3000 if I recall, and only around a couple dozen installations including 19 mines and a few factories.  This one is much bigger at 50000/80000 Thermal/EM and also 3000 construction factories (That’s more factories than I have on Earth).  I think you wouldn’t find this kind of industry other than on a homeworld.  It also had 2 million tons of ground forces.  So it’s quite likely this is the homeworld.

I think it’s unlikely that they might have drained the population through colonisation.  Don’t they start with 500 million pop? It would have taken a lot of effort to move them all offworld.  Plus, I blew up all their ships years ago.

These 2 colonies are the only ones I’ve come across for now.

It has a colony cost of 1. 5.  I bet the planet spawned with carbon dioxide or otherwise outside of the atmospheric parameters for the species in question, there've been a couple reports of that.  Meaning it probably started with a normal population amount and their numbers have been falling since.

But they have enough infrastructure for 54 million, so shouldn’t they have at least that many people?

I once almost wiped out the species during the ground combat, so it is possible that they died during the battle.

Actually I just looked up the rules on  collateral damage, and I think it’s supposed to destroy installations only

[Droll]

So I conquered an NPR world.    It has tons of installations so I'm assuming it is a homeworld.    However, there are only 2 million people on it.    There is also a worker shortage of more than 500 million, so I'm guessing there used to be a lot more people here.         

The colony cost is not 0, but there is enough infrastructure to sustain 54 million people, so they can't have died off due to overcrowding.         

I might have bombed it a couple times, but I stopped after I found out that orbital bombardment does nothing on a forested mountain world.    I used lasers only, no missiles.    There is only 117 atmospheric dust.   

Edit: Can someone tell me how to embed images in posts? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't work.    I think it's automatically inserting a space after every period which breaks the imgur link.   

I didn't even use orbital bombardment or ground strike fighters to support my invasion.     My ground invasion was over in 40 hours so I'm guessing there wasn't too much collateral damage.         

So, where have my slaves new citizens gone?

Edit: Can anyone tell me how to embed images? I tried using the img tag but it doesn't show up.   I think the editor automatically inserting spaces after periods when I save my post and that breaks the imgur link.

I notice that you own larger colonies that house the same alien species in other systems (19m pop).  Are you absolutely sure that this is the homeworld? Is this a generated NPR or did it exist from the start, they may have just gone mad colonizing around, drained the population but not fully drained the installations.

How many populated colonies did this race have?

The other colony had much smaller EM and Thermal signals, both around 3000 if I recall, and only around a couple dozen installations including 19 mines and a few factories.  This one is much bigger at 50000/80000 Thermal/EM and also 3000 construction factories (That’s more factories than I have on Earth).  I think you wouldn’t find this kind of industry other than on a homeworld.  It also had 2 million tons of ground forces.  So it’s quite likely this is the homeworld.

I think it’s unlikely that they might have drained the population through colonisation.  Don’t they start with 500 million pop? It would have taken a lot of effort to move them all offworld.  Plus, I blew up all their ships years ago.

These 2 colonies are the only ones I’ve come across for now.

It has a colony cost of 1. 5.  I bet the planet spawned with carbon dioxide or otherwise outside of the atmospheric parameters for the species in question, there've been a couple reports of that.  Meaning it probably started with a normal population amount and their numbers have been falling since.

But they have enough infrastructure for 54 million, so shouldn’t they have at least that many people?

I once almost wiped out the species during the ground combat, so it is possible that they died during the battle.

Actually I just looked up the rules on  collateral damage, and I think it’s supposed to destroy installations only

What is your difficulty (at the time of NPR generation) and how far into your game are you in?

[imperator1550 (OP)]

What is your difficulty (at the time of NPR generation) and how far into your game are you in?

Didn’t change the settings, so it should be the defaults? Starting year was 2025 and the current year is 2111.

[Black]

I once almost wiped out the species during the ground combat, so it is possible that they died during the battle.

Actually I just looked up the rules on  collateral damage, and I think it’s supposed to destroy installations only

I assure you, that civilians die during ground combat.

I quickly spawned NPR on Earth and gave them some basic combat troops, then set them as hostile. As you can see 32000 Human civilians died during first attack. As for the Aliens, 340000 died in the first attack:

[Zap0]

At 2m ground troops you had to grind down I can see the pop levels falling even further through collateral damage than what the infrastructure would support, yeah...

[imperator1550 (OP)]

I once almost wiped out the species during the ground combat, so it is possible that they died during the battle. 

Actually I just looked up the rules on  collateral damage, and I think it’s supposed to destroy installations only

I assure you, that civilians die during ground combat.

I quickly spawned NPR on Earth and gave them some basic combat troops, then set them as hostile.  As you can see 32000 Human civilians died during first attack.  As for the Aliens, 340000 died in the first attack:

At 2m ground troops you had to grind down I can see the pop levels falling even further through collateral damage than what the infrastructure would support, yeah. . .

Yes you two are right, I just checked the wiki again, don't know where I read that collateral damage doesn't affect civilians.

"the collateral (energy) damage increases the dust level by 5% of the damage amount and inflicts civilian casualties at the rate of 2,000 per point of damage. "

So the planet has 117 dust now, which means there was 117/0. 05 = 2340 points of collateral damage, which translates to 2340*2000=4,680,000 civilian casualties.  Looks like I accidentally commited genocide, oops.

This means there were at least 6. 86 million civilians before the invasion.  Since their troops should also have done collateral damage during the fight, given their lower tonnage than me, I'm going to assume that can't have done more damage than my troops, so I suppose the upper bound for the number of civilians before the fight should be somewhere around 10 to 12 million?

Still a bit low, given that the planet should be able to support at least 54 million?

[Black]

Yes you two are right, I just checked the wiki again, don't know where I read that collateral damage doesn't affect civilians.

"the collateral (energy) damage increases the dust level by 5% of the damage amount and inflicts civilian casualties at the rate of 2,000 per point of damage. "

So the planet has 117 dust now, which means there was 117/0. 05 = 2340 points of collateral damage, which translates to 2340*2000=4,680,000 civilian casualties.  Looks like I accidentally commited genocide, oops.

This means there were at least 6. 86 million civilians before the invasion.  Since their troops should also have done collateral damage during the fight, given their lower tonnage than me, I'm going to assume that can't have done more damage than my troops, so I suppose the upper bound for the number of civilians before the fight should be somewhere around 10 to 12 million?

Still a bit low, given that the planet should be able to support at least 54 million?

I do not know how many troops you deployed, but if the enemy had 2000000 tons of visible troops, maybe around 6 milion tons of your troops? That could translate to something like 10 milion of dead civilians in 40 hours of combat, if I take my very limited result as a baseline (1mil of ground troops killed 340k of civilians). So maybe something like 18 million civilians before the invasion?

Were the other colonies that you captured colony cost 0 for them? Maybe they really moved lot of population because they favored better worlds? This is most likely result of several factors - bug that spawned NPR on hostile world, orbital bombardment, ground invasion and colonization. I don't think that we will be able to get accurate number.

Maybe some records from the database could be extracted that would show how the number of the civilians changed for the NPR? But I have no experience with this, so I wouldn't be able to help with it.

[imperator1550 (OP)]

I do not know how many troops you deployed, but if the enemy had 2000000 tons of visible troops, maybe around 6 milion tons of your troops? That could translate to something like 10 milion of dead civilians in 40 hours of combat, if I take my very limited result as a baseline (1mil of ground troops killed 340k of civilians).  So maybe something like 18 million civilians before the invasion?

Were the other colonies that you captured colony cost 0 for them? Maybe they really moved lot of population because they favored better worlds? This is most likely result of several factors - bug that spawned NPR on hostile world, orbital bombardment, ground invasion and colonization.  I don't think that we will be able to get accurate number. 

Maybe some records from the database could be extracted that would show how the number of the civilians changed for the NPR? But I have no experience with this, so I wouldn't be able to help with it.

I had 3. 3 million tons of troops, and they had 139,000 tons of troops visible from orbit, mostly infantry, and it was a forested mountain world, so I figure they had around 139,000*6*2. 5 ~= 2 million "real" ground force tonnage. 
My troops were 100% CAP, but they had some heavier classes like bombardment and tanks, and they could have caused more collateral damage.

The other colony was also 1. 5 colony cost for them.  They have enough infrastructure for 19m, and there was 19m people on it when I captured.  But I only had to fight around 200,000 tons last time, so maybe the collateral damage was smaller.

Anyway, I guess collateral damage is our best answer with regards to what happened on their homeworld.

[Dawa1147]

How long did the Invasion last? Especially the initial ground force landings and surrender, and the delay between laser bombardment and planetary invasion.
Every 8h they dont surrender is 8h where combat inflicts collateral damage. Even if you are pure PWI, their bombardment weapons will (afaik) still inflict it.
Also, that dust level is prob. high enough to require infrastructure, but that takes time to build. They might have had 450 million pops, but only managed part of that infrastructure before you accidentally genocided them (sidenote: thank god collateral damage is reduced in 1.14, imo you had to win in less than two weeks with at most CAP [and only once their INF died some small amount of AV], or else the collateral and/or environmental damage was excessive.)

[Density]

How long did the Invasion last? Especially the initial ground force landings and surrender, and the delay between laser bombardment and planetary invasion.
Every 8h they dont surrender is 8h where combat inflicts collateral damage. Even if you are pure PWI, their bombardment weapons will (afaik) still inflict it.
Also, that dust level is prob. high enough to require infrastructure, but that takes time to build. They might have had 450 million pops, but only managed part of that infrastructure before you accidentally genocided them (sidenote: thank god collateral damage is reduced in 1.14, imo you had to win in less than two weeks with at most CAP [and only once their INF died some small amount of AV], or else the collateral and/or environmental damage was excessive.)

The dust shouldn't be a problem at that amount; Anti-Greenhouse Factor =  1 + (Dust Level / 20000) + Pressure of Anti-Greenhouse Gases. There certainly isn't enough dust to lower the temp enough to turn a cc 0 world to cc 1.5. And since it is a flat 1.5, and the atmo on that summary shows Not Breathable, it's very likely the world spawned with a dangerous gas and the OP has cc reduction tech researched to 25%. (I'm pretty confident in this since the OP has said the 19m pop world with the same species is also cc 1.5, but the OP could confirm this by checking what gasses are in the atmo of the conquered home world.) This would cause a mass die-off of the spawned population before it built enough infrastructure for the survivors.

[Dawa1147]

How long did the Invasion last? Especially the initial ground force landings and surrender, and the delay between laser bombardment and planetary invasion.
Every 8h they dont surrender is 8h where combat inflicts collateral damage. Even if you are pure PWI, their bombardment weapons will (afaik) still inflict it.
Also, that dust level is prob. high enough to require infrastructure, but that takes time to build. They might have had 450 million pops, but only managed part of that infrastructure before you accidentally genocided them (sidenote: thank god collateral damage is reduced in 1.14, imo you had to win in less than two weeks with at most CAP [and only once their INF died some small amount of AV], or else the collateral and/or environmental damage was excessive.)

The dust shouldn't be a problem at that amount; Anti-Greenhouse Factor =  1 + (Dust Level / 20000) + Pressure of Anti-Greenhouse Gases. There certainly isn't enough dust to lower the temp enough to turn a cc 0 world to cc 1.5. And since it is a flat 1.5, and the atmo on that summary shows Not Breathable, it's very likely the world spawned with a dangerous gas and the OP has cc reduction tech researched to 25%. (I'm pretty confident in this since the OP has said the 19m pop world with the same species is also cc 1.5, but the OP could confirm this by checking what gasses are in the atmo of the conquered home world.) This would cause a mass die-off of the spawned population before it built enough infrastructure for the survivors.

If the bombardment was somewhat recent, yes. If I recall correctly, Dust lowers by 100/year. As for breathable atmosphere: I assumed not breathable was meant in regards to their player race, but you might be right and its not breathable for the NPR... which shouldnt be possible, unless the cooling from the dust was enough to freeze something.