Aurora 4x

C# Aurora => C# Bureau of Design => Topic started by: Xanithas on July 23, 2022, 08:30:35 AM

Title: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 23, 2022, 08:30:35 AM
Hello all,

After reading through a ton of different designs on here I am trying my hand at designing my own fleet for my current game.   I am fairly new so I figured I would show my current designs and my current philosophy to you all to get some feedback.   For context my game has been going on for a while now and I haven't seen any external threats to my empire.   I have expanded to 6 different star systems averaging around 3 jumps away from Sol (furthest out being 6 jumps).   most of these systems are pretty small with my largest industrial base by far being in Sol so as a result most of my ships are geared to rebuff a threat and scoot home.   I do not have any repair or resupply facilities outside Sol yet but I am working on getting one at the further out colony along with a fuel depot.   I have a jump capable warship that allows me to attack out if needed (I have a NPR to my "north" but so far I am very ahead of him in tech I think, his ships are very slow and his ships I have shot at are outclassed by mine, he is however much bigger than me so I don't want to start anything).   I have seen some of the remnant systems and have taken pot shots at their ships but I have really only been successful just completely overwhelming them with long range ASMs and even then only if there is very few of them defending a location. 

Without further adue here is my current ship line up:
The Revetment is the core of my current feet and all other warships will operate with at least one at all times.   It is my AMM DD and its primary role to protect my smaller ships to allow them to close in and deal the real damage.   My current vision was one of these ships with about 3 other FF or FFGs that I have below to patrol my colones and the more contested jump points on rotation along with combining them into a bigger force to pressure systems outside my jump gate network.   One weakness I already know of is the lack of any shielding in case any missiles leak through which is something I plan to address in a later revision of the class likely removing either one of the Gauss turrets or one of the sensors. 
 
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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       326 Crew       2,873.9 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 127      Sensors 90/0/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 34.45
Maint Life 2.01 Years     MSP 6,259    AFR 900%    IFR 12.5%    1YR 2,057    5YR 30,859    Max Repair 525.00 MSP
Magazine 325   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1.875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100.0    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,467,000 Litres    Range 87.1 billion km (144 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (5x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (5)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EGIS AMM MFC R5Mkm (1)     Range 57.4m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R5Mkm  (325)    Speed: 52,400 km/s    End: 1.6m     Range: 5.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.0000    TH: 506/303/151

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The London Class has been my workhorse for a while now and is the ship I have in the largest quantity.   Its equipped with super long range ASM to destroy enemy ships well before they can return fire (they were originally designed to operate independently which was why I choose such a long range to try and stave off return fire.  ) My fleet is all equipped with Gauss cannons as PD weapons to allow for the squadrons to cover each other if they ever get jumped bu fighters or missiles.   These ships have been able to breakthrough the PD of the precursor ships in mass (9 working in tandem on the shame ship).   I seem them more as a raiding force with my Revetments, either sneaking through hostile jump points and targeting enemy shipping or operating on mass with the Revetment to pressure more remote fleets. 
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London class Missile Frigate      10,000 tons       185 Crew       1,840.7 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 85      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 35.67
Maint Life 1.53 Years     MSP 2,380    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,158    5YR 17,373    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Magazine 620   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 740,000 Litres    Range 62.3 billion km (103 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (10)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK1 ASM S6 R100M (100)    Speed: 30,367 km/s    End: 54.9m     Range: 100m km    WH: 9    Size: 5.9934    TH: 253/151/75

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Lastly the Falchion Class was pseudo test ship to try and save money on missiles by using multiple laser batteries to destroy enemy ships.   Its my first ship equipped with a shield as I figure they will be under bombardment longer then the other ships would as they close into laser range so the extra shock defense and protection would be helpful.   The plan here would be they advance with Revetments into laser range to attack with their Spinal and fixed laser batteries while the Revetments AMM and the FFs own CIWS shoot down the literal hurricane of incoming missiles.   of note these haven't been tested in this role so my plan is all theoretical at this point so for all I know they would be burned out hulks before they got anywhere close. 
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Falchion FLTII class Frigate      10,000 tons       252 Crew       1,972.8 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 1,110
7000 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 37-426       HTK 88      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 43.67
Maint Life 1.56 Years     MSP 2,588    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,220    5YR 18,295    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 946,000 Litres    Range 79.6 billion km (131 days at full power)
Delange Defence Industries Naval Grade Shield(D) SS37 R26 W650 (1)     Recharge Time 426 seconds (0.1 per second)

Kratos Defense 25.00cm SFUV Naval Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 16-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 40       
Kratos Defense 20cm FUV Naval Laser (3)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 25       
Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Kratos Defence "Nova" FL BFC MR320km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
CERN International TFR PO3 (4)     Total Power Output 12    Exp 5%

Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 58800     Range 197.8m km    Resolution 300

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Here is the ASM that my London's use note my original intention was to engage around 80m km so the extra range allows me to defeat enemy ESM
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Missile Size: 5.9934 MSP  (14.98350 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 30,367 km/s     Fuel: 1,116     Flight Time: 55 minutes     Range: 100.05m km
Cost Per Missile: 8.651776     Development Cost: 865
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 759.2%   3k km/s 253.1%   5k km/s 151.8%   10k km/s 75.9%

And here are the Revetments AMM.   I know they are not exactly top tier, I am trying to press up my missile agility tech to get them more on par with the precursor missiles but that will take a little time. 
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Missile Size: 1.0000 MSP  (2.50000 Tons)     Warhead: 1    Radiation Damage: 1    Manoeuvre Rating: 29
Speed: 52,400 km/s     Fuel: 210     Flight Time: 97 seconds     Range: 5,082,800 km
Cost Per Missile: 1.930354     Development Cost: 193
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1519.6%   3k km/s 506.5%   5k km/s 303.9%   10k km/s 152.0%

Any feedback is super appreciated as I said I am pretty new to the game and haven't encountered some of the terrifying enemies some of these other people have.   I am planning on building a light carrier (30kt) to replace the Revetment with my FFGs but I am struggling hard with the Hangar capacity (5k vs 10k) so tips there are also appreciated. 
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Neophyte on July 23, 2022, 01:24:57 PM
Just a quick note because I need to run but at first glance I'd really try to get your gauss BFCs improved.  You only have a little over a 1/3 chance to hit a missile, a longer ranged BFC wouldn't be much more space and would really improve your to-hit chances at 10k. With 80 shots that might mean the difference between getting "leakers" or not.  This really helps when attacking AMM spammers.

I'd also add an ENG station to at least the larger ships, you can probably find some room for it and it really helps if you need to deploy for longer times like you have designed for.  That's just me though, I haven't run the numbers on how well it works vs just having more engineering spaces.

Finally beam ships need to be as fast as is practical (whatever that means in your game), don't be afraid to design a beam ship that's faster than your fleet speed - you don't have to go that fast all the time!  If its doctrine is to go under the cover of fleet missile defense you could probably drop some of its own gauss to make room.  As a general note, specialized ships work better in this game, but many of us (including me) prefer more multifunctional ships if only for RP reasons.

I'm sure others will have better advice for you soon!
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: lumporr on July 23, 2022, 02:21:12 PM
Take everything I say with a grain of salt (as I am pretty inexperienced), but I'll give it a shot!

Most everything looks pretty good, though I think with beam vessels (as stated by Neophyte), you'll want as much engine as you can.  I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there. 

To be clear, I've never used missiles before, but I'm preparing to for the first time in a campaign I'm drawing up, and I have a few questions about your designs.  For AMMs, would you not want as many tubes as possible while maintaining high rate of fire? Considering potential misses, five AMM tubes strikes me as a little inadequate for your jump destroyer unless it's escorted or grouped with others, compared to what I'd usually have in a gauss equivalent.  Also, considering what I've seen from NPRs, isn't 5m missile range on an AMM a little far? I generally have to close to near beam range for the AMM spam to start rolling out.  But again, this is me theorizing - compared to me, you're the expert there. 

I think the thing that stands out the most is the amount of shielding on your shielded frigate.  In my experience, 37 shields won't be stopping much of anything for more than a handful of 5-second increments in close combat, so that hull space might be better used elsewhere until you can dedicate more research to better shields.

Anyway, seems great though! I'm a sucker for clean sizing/speeds.  Gotta love those zeroes.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 23, 2022, 03:21:47 PM
Thanks all for the feedback so far, to address some questions posed / ask some questions of my own:

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I'd really try to get your gauss BFCs improved.   You only have a little over a 1/3 chance to hit a missile, a longer ranged BFC wouldn't be much more space and would really improve your to-hit chances at 10k.  With 80 shots that might mean the difference between getting "leakers" or not.   This really helps when attacking AMM spammers.
When you say improve what do you mean? Are you saying my tech level is too low or that my BFC range is too short? I know there is a bonus to chance to hit the longer a missile is tracked but I assumed that was on a sensor not a BFC.  If its extend the range I can do that all day long

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add an ENG station to at least the larger ships
hehe I seemed to have forgotten something. . .  good thing I haven't started this upgrade yet. . .

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I think with beam vessels (as stated by Neophyte), you'll want as much engine as you can.   I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there
What speed do you think is appropriate? I could throw away some of the Guass PD turrets or build a lighter special one to free up the space as was recommended but so far I haven't seen anything I am not faster than (I know its possible I just haven't encountered a specific threat yet)

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For AMMs, would you not want as many tubes as possible while maintaining high rate of fire? Considering potential misses, five AMM tubes strikes me as a little inadequate for your jump destroyer unless it's escorted or grouped with others, compared to what I'd usually have in a gauss equivalent.   Also, considering what I've seen from NPRs, isn't 5m missile range on an AMM a little far?
To address both here, I have tended to have these ships operate in groups of 3 (3 Revetments and 9 FF / FFGs) because I have seen the same issue you mentioned of not having enough missiles to really make a sizeable impact, most of the time my AMM get one or 2 of the inbound missiles and my PD gets the rest.  I suppose making a specialized FF variant with AMM might not be a bad idea and use the Revetment more as a sensor and jump ship.  My logic was since im still stabilizing the mining economy having a ship that needs missiles to perform its primary duty seemed kinda counter productive but I do agree the missiles they fire are just ok.  The range I choose was sorta arbitrary, It was the range my sensor indicated it could see a size 6 missile (which is a real threat as opposed to the AMM swarm that happens most of the time) so I built a missile to reach out and hit that.  I get 2 shots on inbound missiles most of the time if they are bigger in size so it seems to be effective.

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I think the thing that stands out the most is the amount of shielding on your shielded frigate.   In my experience, 37 shields won't be stopping much of anything for more than a handful of 5-second increments in close combat, so that hull space might be better used elsewhere until you can dedicate more research to better shields. 
I was very interested in hearing feedback on the shield, I have never used them before and it was sorta confusing reading about them.  Is it the fact that I have one generator or that the generator I have is trash that's the problem? Would you recommend multiple smaller generators to fill the same weight or the big one I went for.  I checked and it seems that you get far more layers per weight with the bigger one but I could be missing some underlying benefit that the redundant system provides that's worth losing the layers.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 23, 2022, 03:54:41 PM
Also as mentioned earlier I was designing a CVL, so I figured I would throw it in here for feedback.

As I mentioned above the intention for the Agincourt was to replace the Revetment for FFG based fleets as the AMM didn't really help much and the only thing I needed them for was the jump drive.  Enter the Agincourt a carrier that is designed to take 5 London FFGs as escort and project some power into enemy space.  The ship is only equipped with a self defense load as I intend to stand off with the Londons as the formations primary striking capability but its embarked craft load out might make it more capable in mixed unit fleets moving forward.  I included some boarding shuttles more as a nice to have as I have encountered a few stricken ships that I feel I could have boarded but the quantity of troops they bring (200 weight) might not be enough to actually capture anything.  Additionally I feel my magazine space might be a little low, the fighter bombers only have 4 reloads a piece but I also don't know if they are even worth using in the first place so I would be interested to hear your thoughts. 
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Agincourt class Light Carrier      30,000 tons       593 Crew       5,174.3 BP       TCS 600    TH 4,200    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 5-50      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 186      Sensors 90/0/0/0      DCR 6      PPV 29.45
Maint Life 2.01 Years     MSP 16,646    AFR 1200%    IFR 16.7%    1YR 5,510    5YR 82,649    Max Repair 1050.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 400   
Commander    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 30k SS5 W3.6kt     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5

Organista Aeromarine IFD HS100 P1.05  EP2100.00 (2)    Power 4200.0    Fuel Use 14.29%    Signature 2100.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 2,007,000 Litres    Range 84.3 billion km (139 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (5x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (64)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Strike Group
2x Breacher Assault Shuttle   Speed: 20088 km/s    Size: 4.99
5x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99
4x Demolisher Fighter-bomber   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The breacher is a simple concept, rush in while being tough enough to survive a stricken ships remaining PD and land a boarding party to try our luck.  I feel I might have too few of them to actually seize a ship but I am not sure 100% of the mechanics of a boarding.
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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      250 tons       9 Crew       66.7 BP       TCS 5    TH 100    EM 0
20088 km/s      Armour 3-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.55 Years     MSP 15    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 7    5YR 107    Max Repair 50.15 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.2 days    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin FIFD HS1.7 P2.95 EP100.30 (1)    Power 100.3    Fuel Use 1450.08%    Signature 100.30    Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.25 billion km (3 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

The Conqueror is a armored fighter I would intend to send in to try and distract enemy PD away from my missiles / fighter bombers while also harassing damaged or fleeing ships.  I don't feel the 10cm rail gun is going to be a ship killer by any stretch but I do feel this ship would survive a wallop and keep shooting possibly scoring critical s through the damage in the armor caused by the missile and fighter bombers strikes. 
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Conqueror class Fighter      500 tons       20 Crew       176.6 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15007 km/s      Armour 6-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3
Maint Life 0.38 Years     MSP 10    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 26    5YR 396    Max Repair 75.00 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150.0    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150.00    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 21,000 Litres    Range 0.61 billion km (11 hours at full power)

ThyssenKrupp 10cm Fighter Grade Railgun RoF5 LV50k S4 C4 (1x4)    Range 50,000km     TS: 15,007 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 50,000 km    ROF 5       
ThyssenKrupp Railgun FBFC MR76k TS20k (SW) (1)     Max Range: 76,800 km   TS: 15,000 km/s     87 74 61 48 35 22 9 0 0 0
CERN International MCFR PO3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

Last is the Demolisher which I feel might be less useful or better off being swapped with Conquerors.  The missiles I provided it could pass through the PD of a enemy formation due to the speed and the fact that the Fighters should be screening it but I feel I either need a frakk load of smaller warheads or fewer much larger ones to really give them the bang for the buck I am looking for.  I went with the one I went with to try and achieve some sort of large striking capability so even if some are intercepted I can still get some worthwhile damage in.
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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber      500 tons       9 Crew       141.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15007 km/s      Armour 6-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3.6
Maint Life 0.76 Years     MSP 15    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 20    5YR 295    Max Repair 75.00 MSP
Magazine 24   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150.0    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150.00    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 29,000 Litres    Range 0.84 billion km (15 hours at full power)

BAE Systems Missile Rack S6 (4)     Missile Size: 6.00    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
BAE Harpoon FMFC R80Mkm (1)     Range 84.3m km    Resolution 100
BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (4)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

Finally this is the missile I have equipped them with.  Much shorter range then my fleets SM and honestly they might be a little too long still.  I am still working out the average range of PD and AMM so this might be a ludicrously long range still and I just don't know it.
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Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 40,567 km/s     Fuel: 1,376     Flight Time: 12 minutes     Range: 30.03m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.070288     Development Cost: 1,007
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1014.2%   3k km/s 338.1%   5k km/s 202.8%   10k km/s 101.4%

Again troughs are appreciated.  I will probably post some of my others ideas here for feedback, I am working on a beam CL so I should have that to throw in here soon along with some other auxiliaries for longer distance engagements I am planning
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: nuclearslurpee on July 23, 2022, 04:23:33 PM
There is quite a lot here, so I will try to stick to the highlights, or lowlights as it may be.

General Comment: I don't want to go too in-depth about this, since discovery is a big part of the game, but I will say that it seems you don't have a lot of experience with jump point-based warfare in Aurora. Usually jump point defenses are heavy or nonexistent at least when facing the NPRs, so despite the hopes and dreams of many players it is usually not possible to "sneak through" a JP with a small raiding force. The short implication of this is that for a strong, successful fleet you want to design around jump point assault and defense first and foremost. Of course there are many exceptions including some of the spoiler race encounters, but this is a general thing you want to keep in mind for keeping your fleet designs well-grounded.

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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer
Fuel Capacity 1,467,000 Litres    Range 87.1 billion km (144 days at full power)

This amount of range is probably excessive by a factor of 2 or 3, depending on the galaxy map topography. It is better to support a fleet with tankers as needed to achieve long operational ranges, so that the combat ships can dedicate more space to combat systems.

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Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

The max range on your BFC is too low. Point defense fire takes place at 10,000 km, so with a range of 16,000 km you will have only 37.5% accuracy factor from range - in addition to other accuracy loss from fast missile speeds and reduced size of the Gauss cannons. I would recommend keeping a 1x size multiplier which at this tech level should give 80,000 km range and thus 87.5% accuracy factor from range under point defense conditions.

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Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (5)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EGIS AMM MFC R5Mkm (1)     Range 57.4m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R5Mkm  (325)    Speed: 52,400 km/s    End: 1.6m     Range: 5.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.0000    TH: 506/303/151

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

You're going to have some problems here:

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My fleet is all equipped with Gauss cannons as PD weapons to allow for the squadrons to cover each other if they ever get jumped bu fighters or missiles.

This is an excellent practice.

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London class Missile Frigate
Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (10)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK1 ASM S6 R100M (100)    Speed: 30,367 km/s    End: 54.9m     Range: 100m km    WH: 9    Size: 5.9934    TH: 253/151/75

I would prefer to see a lot more launchers per ship, especially since you seem to be using reduced-size launchers. Size-6 launchers at 30% size take up 90 tons each, so you can easily put 20 of them (1,800 tons) on a 10k ton warship, which will give you the salvo sizes to compete against large enemy fleets without being as cheesy as box launcher spam. The key to beating point defense is volley size, not how many missiles you bring to the fight but rather how many missiles you can land on the target in one increment is what matters.

The MFC range is excessive by a lot, which means it is 9x larger than necessary and should probably be reduced in size so you can fit more missiles instead.

The actual missiles again are too slow, 40,000 km/s is easily exceeded at this tech level. As before I suspect design flaws are the culprit, not range. For ASMs, keep in mind that pure %chance to hit is not the only design criteria, a faster missile will be better against the enemy point defense even if the hit chance per missile is not quite as high.

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Falchion FLTII class Frigate
7000 km/s

Contrary to prevailing opinion, I think the speed is fine. A missile-first fleet should have beam ships to escort the missile ships and supplement in situations where missiles are not ideal - especially when trying to force a jump point, heavy beam firepower is essential to secure a foothold as missile do not hit as hard as beams per ton/HS. As such, speed is not so critical given the class's role in a fleet - but if you were playing a fleet based around beam weapons then indeed more speed would be preferable.

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Armour 4-41       Shields 37-426
Delange Defence Industries Naval Grade Shield(D) SS37 R26 W650 (1)     Recharge Time 426 seconds (0.1 per second)

I would recommend to use the largest shield generator size you can. Shield size scales with strength as Size^(3/2) so larger generators are much more efficient. As it is, this shield is borderline as it provides just under one armor layer's worth of protection.

I will say that the armor is rather thin for a ship of this tech level, you should be able to have at least 6-8 layers without much trouble. For the missile ships it is not so important, missile combat is usually about not being hit at all in the first place, but a beam ship will get shot at so it needs the protection. Alternatively, use more shields.

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Kratos Defense 25.00cm SFUV Naval Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 16-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 40       
Kratos Defense 20cm FUV Naval Laser (3)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 25       

Needs more guns.

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Any feedback is super appreciated as I said I am pretty new to the game and haven't encountered some of the terrifying enemies some of these other people have.   I am planning on building a light carrier (30kt) to replace the Revetment with my FFGs but I am struggling hard with the Hangar capacity (5k vs 10k) so tips there are also appreciated.

Design the fighter wing first, then figure out what kind of carrier you need to deploy it. Note that while 500-ton fighters are the most efficient per-ton, in most cases 250 or 300-ton fighters or similar are equally as useful and can have certain advantages, particularly in forcing the enemy to split fire with limited fire controls (smaller fighters = more targets per X tons). For the carrier design, don't get too married to round numbers for the hangar space - design the strike squadron and then a carrier to carry one, two, or more of those squadrons (plus magazines for reloading, extra fuel, and so on). You might also consider having a small complement of fighter-sized scouts as these are often very effective units.

Usually for carriers you can sacrifice the defenses somewhat since they should not get within range of the enemy weapons, which can help you find space for other essentials.


I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there. 

Usually anywhere in the range of 30% to 40% engine mass fraction is acceptable (this is roughly the range the NPRs use), or a bit lower if you want to use EP multipliers and drink a lot more fuel. ;-)  Some players who only care about min/max will use 50% engine fractions with a high boost multiplier, 20 layers of armor, and then whatever weapon they think is most powerful to build functionally invincible ships that can outrun any NPR ship, tank any amount of damage, and defeat NPR fleets without losses. Personally, I find this to be terribly boring as it lacks roleplay interest and to be frank the NPRs are so uncompetitive (unless they have a massive tech advantage) that exploiting them is wholly unnecessary.


Also as mentioned earlier I was designing a CVL, so I figured I would throw it in here for feedback.

Additionally I feel my magazine space might be a little low, the fighter bombers only have 4 reloads a piece but I also don't know if they are even worth using in the first place so I would be interested to hear your thoughts. 

Usually 4 reloads for fighters is fine, if you need more you should be replenishing from auxiliary ships between battles.


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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      250 tons
Troop Capacity 100 tons

It is too small, unless you have maxed-out boarding troops then only 100 tons is not enough to survive the battle.

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The Conqueror is a armored fighter I would intend to send in to try and distract enemy PD away from my missiles / fighter bombers while also harassing damaged or fleeing ships.

It is an interesting concept, but I don't think it would be very useful in that role. However, railgun fighters are quite strong on their own as Steve has shown in his BSG campaign, so the design is probably fine in practice - it just might not work the way you think it will. Do note that railgun fighters need to be deployed en masse to be effective.

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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber
BAE Systems Missile Rack S6 (4)     Missile Size: 6.00    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
BAE Harpoon FMFC R80Mkm (1)     Range 84.3m km    Resolution 100
BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (4)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Missiles are too slow, and you should be able to fit more than four launchers on a 500-ton fighter. I usually use size-4 missiles on my fighter-bombers, and I put 4x launchers on a 250-ton frame, so you should be able to put 5 or 6 size-6 box launchers on this. Remember, the key to missile warfare is overwhelming volley fire - as many birds in the air at once as possible.

Also as before check that your missile, MFC, and sensor ranges all match up (currently they do not).

Hope some of this is helpful and/or informative to yourself and others.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: kilo on July 24, 2022, 05:05:39 AM
Okay, I will give it a try as well.

1. As most of the others have said, you should alter your anti-missile BFC. You invested like 3600 tons + in anti-missile guns. You should consider putting another 100 tons into BFC range to make sure they hit something.

2. I firmly believe that your sensor package is complete overkill:

2.a Revetment class:

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

It carries two very similar long range sensors. I would personally kill one of them off. Probably the Resolution 300 and add some resolution 5 or 10 instead to keep small craft at distance. Bringing passive sensors is generally a good idea, as you can use them to detect enemy vessels without announcing your presence. Having both types can be extremely useful, as you will detect sensor and engine capabilities and you can tell possible civilian and military vessels apart. EM sensors should be 7HS or larger, as these are be able to detect active enemy sensors before you fly into their coverage and identify enemy command ships.

The AI loves to shoot ships with sensors first. This is why I would make the very much sensor only and add obscene amounts of shields and armor. You would only need one or two ships with such a package in your fleet, but they are oftentimes targeted first, so make sure they are durable. On top of that it saves tonnage not to equip every ship with large sensors.

2b. London class:

This ship has an interesting set of sensors and fire controls as well. The anti-missile sensor is useful, as you are bringing beam PD weapons, the missile fire control and long range sensor combination makes little sense though. You chose resolution 20 or 1000 ton sensor and a resolution 300 fire control designed to fight ships of 15000 tons. This loses you the advantage of both systems, as you cannot use the maximum range of the missiles and fire control, while you can hardly target the smaller ships your sensors might detect. A size 20 vessel could only be fired upon if it came to 0.27m km. That is beam range.
 
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20

I would definitely change the MFC and I would only keep the sensors if you want to be able to use these ships solo.

2c. Falchion class:

I bet that this ship will never be used alone. This is why I would remove all current sensors and replace them with a resolution 1 sensor with a range that is greater than the weapons range but at most 1.5 m km, which is the maximum beam weapon range in the game.

3. Electronic warfare:

Add both types of electronic warfare equipment to ships of these sizes. You need 1 ECM per ship and 1 ECCM per fire control system. Especially beam weapons are susceptible, as an ECM advantage reduces the other side's fire control range and chance to hit. Missile fire controls lose only range, but chance to hit is determined by the missiles electronic warfare capabilities. The effect is additive, not multiplicative, and 10% per level of tech difference. It can reduce the hit chance to negative numbers and prevent you completely from firing.

Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 24, 2022, 01:17:09 PM
Hello and thank you all for the awesome feedback.   I have started to change my ships based on some of the observations you all have made and will post the changed designs here for further review.   I have some questions based on some of the critiques I received.   

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    Only five AMM launchers will not be very useful against a large wave of enemy missiles. 
    5m km range is excessive for AMMs.   It can make sense for dual-purpose missiles but I don't think that's the use case here. 
    Even if 5m km range makes sense, you won't get it because your RES-1 active sensor has only 318k km range.   Active sensors need to match or exceed fire control ranges. 
    The problem with such long range is you need an excessively large MFC (and active sensor, unless using scouts to extend your sensor envelope) which is a waste of tonnage.   Use shorter AMM range and more launchers instead. 
    Perhaps because of the long range, the actual missile is very slow.   At the approximate tech levels you have, AMM speed should easily exceed 70,000 km/s and a good AMM design can probably break 80k.   I can get a 5m km range AMM with a speed in this range at your approximate tech level very easily, so the actual design has some flaw as well.   Make sure you have a very high engine power multiplier tech level (3.  0x max should be easy at this tech level) as it is critical for good missile designs. 

Given the size of the ship I have how many missile launchers you all recommend and how many MFC to support them.   I am confused by the doctrinal statements (shoot 3 per missile ect.  ) but it seems it would shoot a all of the missile launchers in that MFC control 3 times per missile inbound which would do nothing but totally empty my magazine in the first volley or does it shoot 3 individual missiles per missile until it runs out of launchers and resets until one is reloaded? As for the AMM specifically what is your target range.   5M was my target to give me more shots per missile but if that's too long what should I target instead.   I have modified the design around a 1M range missile and upped the launchers to 10 but I feel I need a MFC to spread their fire out. 

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It carries two very similar long range sensors.   I would personally kill one of them off.   Probably the Resolution 300 and add some resolution 5 or 10 instead to keep small craft at distance.   Bringing passive sensors is generally a good idea, as you can use them to detect enemy vessels without announcing your presence.   Having both types can be extremely useful, as you will detect sensor and engine capabilities and you can tell possible civilian and military vessels apart.   EM sensors should be 7HS or larger, as these are be able to detect active enemy sensors before you fly into their coverage and identify enemy command ships. 

I made the adjustments toward a more fighter sized target but im curious what is your standard target size for a ship sensor and how far do you look? the average ship I see is 10K so I am searching there now but perhaps I am looking too far and I am throwing weight away for no declarable gain.   I hear you on the sensor only command ships but as of right now I cant afford such a ship with the exception of the carrier perhaps.   I am still trying to toll up some new auxiliaries to even support this fleet so a sensor only command ship might be a future plan as I flesh out my doctrine.   Speaking of.  .  . 

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I don't want to go too in-depth about this, since discovery is a big part of the game, but I will say that it seems you don't have a lot of experience with jump point-based warfare in Aurora.   Usually jump point defenses are heavy or nonexistent at least when facing the NPRs, so despite the hopes and dreams of many players it is usually not possible to "sneak through" a JP with a small raiding force.   The short implication of this is that for a strong, successful fleet you want to design around jump point assault and defense first and foremost.   Of course there are many exceptions including some of the spoiler race encounters, but this is a general thing you want to keep in mind for keeping your fleet designs well-grounded. 

You are correct that I have 0 experience with jump point based warfare, every "military" expedition has been a sortie into space that has some precursor ships which I hunt down and shoot, but other then that jump points are completely unguarded in my experience.   I have considered putting stations around some of mine but the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.   I can see how having a armored hammer to smash through a jump point would be critical but do you feel I am painting myself into a corner with my current fleet design if I encounter such a defense?

Last question, Seeing as I just revised the design for my Jump DD, how do you handle ship template changes.   I haven't built any of the Revetment FLT 2s yet so that wasn't a issue, just unlock and re-design but the London has about 9 ships in class and if I overhaul them I would need to refit them all.   In your experience is there value in refitting older models into newer ones or am I better off starting over.   At what point is the refit not worth it and a new ship is the answer? 

I took the feedback I received and redesigned the Revetment, now with 10 missile tubes and a 1M target bracket (slightly overshot with my MFC and ASS to allow for ECM issues to still reach my 1M target range).   The power plant didn't need to be changed I just stripped some fuel off to reclaim some weight and removed a guass turret.   I changed the gauss BFC to max out the normal hull size range to get that tracking time bonus.   The magazine has been expanded to account for the new launchers and the ship now has 41 salvos.   I redesigned the ships missile as well to target the new 1M range and increase its agility to reach a theoretical kill% of 40% on a 50km/s target which is the fastest thing I have seen (other than my  AMM that is).   I used some more passive sensors while keeping the ships large sensor suite to allow it to be a smaller task force command ship.   Knowing what I know now that smaller raiding parties are not practical I might use these more for colonial patrol and post assault operations once I have broken through a enemies defenses. 
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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       364 Crew       3,023. 1 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 125      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 33. 56
Maint Life 2. 03 Years     MSP 6,271    AFR 900%    IFR 12. 5%    1YR 2,037    5YR 30,559    Max Repair 525. 00 MSP
Magazine 410   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1. 875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1. 05 EP1050. 00 (2)    Power 2100. 0    Fuel Use 20. 21%    Signature 1050. 00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 792,000 Litres    Range 47 billion km (77 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1. 5Mkm (1)     Range 18. 2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (410)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0. 2m     Range: 1. 1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1. 0000    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 187. 8m km    Resolution 200
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1. 5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17. 6m km    MCR 1. 6m km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54. 9m km    Resolution 5
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88. 7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

And this is the AMM I decided to go with
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Missile Size: 1.0000 MSP  (2.50000 Tons)     Warhead: 1    Radiation Damage: 1    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 80,400 km/s     Fuel: 45     Flight Time: 13.2 seconds     Range: 1,061,280 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.55025     Development Cost: 255
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 2010.0%   3k km/s 670.0%   5k km/s 402.0%   10k km/s 201.0%

As before tear it apart if I missed something or you feel I am moving in the wrong direction.   This has been very educational to apply to my other ships moving forward.   I plan to revisit the London next as the feedback there seemed more cut and dry then the beam FF so stay tuned.   
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 24, 2022, 03:15:30 PM
Redesign for the London is completed, not a lot changed but I did have to think more on what I view this class doing moving forward.

I removed the huge MFC and targeted 70M as my range for engagements (naturally I moved the MFC out to about 90 to allow for error and loss due to ESM.  I choose to keep the sensors as I can see these operating in small hunter killer groups inside my own space where jump gates will allow them to move freely to destroy enemy scouts and to act as a second line of defense.  The gauss CIWS BFC was upgraded to the new one created for the Revetment.  The largest change was the removal of a layer of armor, a bit of fuel and magazine space to allow for the upgrade to 20 launchers for the ship (divided into 2 10 launcher groups).  These launchers now have 4 salvos which I am not sure is enough but I have way overshot with most other designs so I am probably around right   
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London FLTII class Missile Frigate      10,000 tons       201 Crew       1,918.6 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 3-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 93      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 53.67
Maint Life 1.77 Years     MSP 2,626    AFR 727%    IFR 10.1%    1YR 1,038    5YR 15,569    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Magazine 520   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 510,000 Litres    Range 42.9 billion km (70 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (20)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SMFC R90Mkm (2)     Range 92m km    Resolution 200
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2b ASM S6 R70M (80)    Speed: 50,733 km/s    End: 23.3m     Range: 70.9m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 236/142/71

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 187.8m km    Resolution 200
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

I also took a crack at designing a new long range ASM standard missile for the fleet based on the feedback provided and I actually got great results but reached a impasse.  My two schools of thought was, on the one hand, to target a 100% hit chance on something moving slightly faster then me (10,000 km/s) to ensure even if I encounter someone who has a tech advantage on me I have a chance to hit them, even if those missiles are slightly slower (the SM2 BLK2a).  On the other hand the other school of thought is cranking the speed up higher and target hitting something with a 100% hit chance moving the same speed as me (the SM2 BLK2b) to get the extra speed and target a technological equivalent.  I theorize that in a engagement with a technological inferor foe the BLK2b would perform better thanks to the increased speed but I am not 100% sure on how hit chance works (I assume its a function of agility and size of the warhead) but I wouldn't have a guaranteed hit on something that outclasses me, even if just slightly which could negate the extra speed.   The results of my tinkering are below for your review.

Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2a ASM S6 R70M
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Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 40,800 km/s     Fuel: 1,324     Flight Time: 29 minutes     Range: 70.36m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.1104     Development Cost: 1,011
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1020.0%   3k km/s 340.0%   5k km/s 204.0%   10k km/s 102.0%
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2b ASM S6 R70M
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Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 14
Speed: 50,733 km/s     Fuel: 1,974     Flight Time: 23 minutes     Range: 70.89m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.2802     Development Cost: 1,028
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 710.3%   3k km/s 236.8%   5k km/s 142.1%   10k km/s 71.0%

As always please keep the feedback coming.  I will likely not get to the beam FF tonight as I have a early day tomorrow and its likely going to be the most radical redesign but when I finish it ill throw it on here.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: kilo on July 24, 2022, 04:57:38 PM
It is hard to say which of the two missiles is actually better. It depends on the capabilities of the enemy vessel. One has a significantly higher chance to hit, while the other is harder to kill by enemy anti missile weapons. You should also consider that speed is a huge tactical advantage for missiles as well. The maximum firing distance at which you can guarantee an intercept is (missile speed - target speed)*endurance. If you fire at longer distances the enemy might turn around and the missile runs out of fuel before ever catching up.
Additionally, missiles without sensors cease to exist whenever the ship they originate from gets destroyed. Fast and long ranged missiles can negate the enemy the ability to strike back.

Let us play this trough for an engagement between two Londons with a different weapons layout:
The LondonA firing the BK2a would hit a LondonB that is within 47.25m km. The safest tactic would be to get to this distance, fire and burn away from the target. Your missiles would reach the enemy and you can increase separation and buy your weapons time.
A LondonB firing the BK2b on the other hand could engage at 60.3m km and start disengaging. Given that you kite well, the LondonA would never get into a firing position.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on July 24, 2022, 09:03:24 PM
When it comes to the sensor discussion I never put more than resolution 1 or 5 sensors on capital ships, that is all they need. Anything else is relegated to smaller sensor crafts. As ships can't choose to turn on sensors separately there is no point in larger resolution sensors in favour of sensor scouts.

Also, remember that active sensors is a dead giveaway of your position, so you should NEVER use them unless you want the enemy to know where you are, that is the second reason why you don't need large resolution sensors on capital ships. You also only need them to fire your weapons, making sure you paint the target with a sensor scout also make sure your missile ships can fire undetected wherever they are, this is why finding the enemy with either passive or active sensor scouts is key.

In my multi-faction games the hide and seek part of the game is the most fun part. The AI are not terribly adapt at it though and rely on your having your large active in your combat groups, which is not the smartest thing to do on a missile fleet.

If you want a navigational sensor then a very small resolution 1 works just fine with some small thermal and EM passives. Civilian ships use transponders anyway so you should always know where they are and you only need resolution 1 to find any object close enough to avoid them... never seen the use to actively be able to scan in the 100 resolution bandwidth for millions of kilometres for navigational reasons. My civilian ships usually get a very small res 1 and some thermal and EM sensors to just barely pick up anything close to them, just in case.

For a military ship the sensor suite will have a varied strength of res 1 and 5, while a dedicated small sensor ship might get something with a slightly higher resolution, but then that would be a specific sensor ship with lots of active and passive sensors, maybe 2-4kt size sensor frigate or something. Otherwise sensor crafts is 1kt or below in size.

Against the AI just don't be too smart about it or it will never be able to fire at you ever at all, no matter the differences in tech levels. The above mainly works against other human factions that can deal with the tactical depth, the AI really can't. As sensors are so expensive you need to be smart about it, from a logical perspective the active sensor should be sparingly used unless the craft it is attached to is small and expendable or at least easy to defend or escape with.

Just add a 250-1000t hangar to each and everyone of your warships and you can choose to fit them with a plethora of sensor scouts that meets all your demands, just keep resolution 1 as the main sensors of all capital warships. I use resolution 5 as well but that is not necessary against the AI that don't use fighters as far as I know. Dedicated escort ships get both resolution 1 and 5 as they are meant to engage not only missiles but also fighters.

A 200+ million resolution 100 or 300 active sensors on a warship really don't do anything... you want to detect enemy ships at billions of kilometres so you can assess their strength and either decide to attack or retreat. If you commit without knowing you can overwhelm the opponent (at least be somewhat certain of it) you are just taking enormous risks. Or able to probe there defences without exposing yourself.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 25, 2022, 02:39:23 PM
Hello all, and once again thank you all for the wonderful feedback.  I have made changed to the Revetment again removing the larger sensor and putting it on a smaller sensor probe the "Eagle Scout" which is launched from a boat bay and deployed to gather intel.  I kept the Fighter and Missile sensors however as they seemed practical given the ships function as a AMM platform but I am open to feedback if I missed the point.

The new Revetment, I didn't change the FLT since this model hasn't seen a production run yet.  I am still toying with the idea of refitting the previous Revetments into this one but I need to look at the cost and time savings to see if that makes sense.  They are at this point basically completely different ships and only their common name and foundation is the same.
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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       357 Crew       2,866.7 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 124      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 33.56
Maint Life 2.04 Years     MSP 6,258    AFR 900%    IFR 12.5%    1YR 2,006    5YR 30,097    Max Repair 525 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 410   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1.875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 784,000 Litres    Range 46.6 billion km (76 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1.5Mkm (1)     Range 18.2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (410)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0.2m     Range: 1.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The Eagle scout as well, I decided for a speedy craft with no armor and pretty good range as I figure this will need to get around while its formation loiters in a safe area.  The only question I have is the MSP storage I provided it (Enough to complete a full repair) but that might not be necessary seeing as I view these as disposable (don't tell the crew. . . )
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Eagle class Scout      250 tons       10 Crew       131.7 BP       TCS 5    TH 100    EM 0
20082 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 10.43 Years     MSP 82    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 21    Max Repair 72 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin FIFD HS1.7 P2.95 EP100.30 (1)    Power 100.3    Fuel Use 1450.08%    Signature 100.3    Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 1.49 billion km (20 hours at full power)

Raytheon Eagle Eye ASS R200 MR118Mkm (1)     GPS 14400     Range 118.8m km    Resolution 200

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a a for auto-assignment purposes

Finally the Flachion was overhauled given the feedback I was provided and is almost a new ship as well.  All of the previous sensors minus the Missile detection one (which will likely be standard on all my ships, my dual use navigation and missile detection I suppose) were removed as well as the fuel range shorted to support more weapons.  I got a tech up to Soft X-Ray and have the tech for better reactors so I essentially upgraded everything, adding 2 more Lasers to the ships previous (bringing the total to 5) and upgraded the Spinal to a Advanced Spinal mount.  The BFC was upgraded to take advantage of my new max range tech.  Finally I choose to remove the shield entirely seeing as I clearly don't have the tech to support a worth while shield yet so instead I layered on a lot more armor (7 layers now total).  As for speed I haven't tested them out yet but I feel that any increase in speed would not really help out the ship as much as it would start to pull away from its AMM DD and lose its support fire. 
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Falchion FLTII class Frigate      10,000 tons       278 Crew       2,235.2 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 7-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 94      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 57.67
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 2,999    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,298    5YR 19,474    Max Repair 350 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 499,000 Litres    Range 42 billion km (69 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defense 20cm SXR Naval Laser (5)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 15       
Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO8 (3)     Total Power Output 24.3    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-1 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Thanks for all the help all, I am learning a lot here and plan to keep posting all the ships I design here to see if I can catch some feedback on them.  As always any thoughts on these ships are apprenticed. 
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Kiero on July 25, 2022, 03:47:13 PM
Also, look at your ships AFR (Annual Failure Rate. The chance the ship will suffer a component failure over the course of one year).
It is a bit high for my taste.

Let's take Falchion as an example.
AFR 800%, so it will break 8 times in one year. Max repair 350MPS. If you're really unlucky 8x350 = 2800 MPS for one year, just to keep that damn thing afloat  ;)

Also in combat, it will drain MPS like crazy.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: nuclearslurpee on July 25, 2022, 04:08:09 PM
Also, look at your ships AFR (Annual Failure Rate. The chance the ship will suffer a component failure over the course of one year).
It is a bit high for my taste.

Let's take Falchion as an example.
AFR 800%, so it will break 8 times in one year. Max repair 350MPS. If you're really unlucky 8x350 = 2800 MPS for one year, just to keep that damn thing afloat  ;)

Also in combat, it will drain MPS like crazy.

Great catch! @OP, a better general practice is to use Engineering Spaces to reduce failure rates until you get a desired maintenance life or AFR%, then add some MSP storage as insurance or to repair weapons that break when firing in combat.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: StarshipCactus on July 26, 2022, 03:36:59 AM
I don't have anything good to add, I just want to say that I personally like to have my ships match the size of my Jump ship. So your ships would all be 15K tons to match the Jump Drive. I also like to try get bigger squadrons if possible, but that is tech related.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 28, 2022, 01:36:36 PM
Hello all, Once again thanks for the awesome feedback, I didn't know that's how AFR was calculated (I just assumed it was based on the complexity of the design.  .  .  ) I have updated all of my ships targeting around 150% and kept about x2 the max repair MSP onboard which bought me some room in some cases. 

The Agincourt was redesigned based on the feedback I received on the other designs.   I pulled the bombers off (I dont think they are really worth it since this strike group composition normally would be missile frigates anyway so the fighters might be more valuable to have en mass then the mix I had.   with the space I saved bu pulling the massive search sensor off, the magazines for the missiles I didn't need, some fuel removal, and the change removing one gauss turret along with some shifting in MSP I managed to up the flight deck capacity to 7000.   I changed the complement to include some of the sensor probes I built along with a newly redesigned assault shuttle. 
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Agincourt class Light Carrier      30,000 tons       731 Crew       5,299.6 BP       TCS 600    TH 4,200    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 5-50      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 213      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 35      PPV 23.56
Maint Life 2.41 Years     MSP 3,930    AFR 202%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 931    5YR 13,969    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 7,000 tons     
Commander    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 140    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 30k SS5 W3.6kt     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5

Organista Aeromarine IFD HS100 P1.05  EP2100.00 (2)    Power 4200    Fuel Use 14.29%    Signature 2100    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,206,000 Litres    Range 50.6 billion km (83 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km

ECM 10

Strike Group
11x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99
2x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99
2x Breacher Assault Shuttle   Speed: 15028 km/s    Size: 9.98

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The assault shuttle didn't receive much of a facelift but more of a size increase.   I upgraded the boarding bay to the small to allow for a total boarding party of 500 troops now between 2 squads.   I think this might be sufficient to complete a boarding action if they work together on some ships but I am interesting in hearing what your minimum boarding party is
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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      500 tons       12 Crew       104.4 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15028 km/s      Armour 3-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 22    5YR 324    Max Repair 75 MSP
Troop Capacity 250 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.5 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 23,000 Litres    Range 0.67 billion km (12 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on July 29, 2022, 07:15:31 AM
AFR is pretty much a reflection on the ships size... you will or should not set on a fixed number. A 10.000t ship with an AFR at 100% would be roughly the same as a 1000t ship at a AFR of 10%, sort of, not quite.

That means that a really big ship will always have much higher annual failure rates and if you try to get a 100.000t ship to a failure rate of 150% you will need a huge amount of engineering modules. Also calculate in the engineering skill of any officers, especially if you have an Engineering module on the ship, which all big ships should.

Instead you should look at the average maintenance life (as @nuclearslurpee said) and then top it off with Supplies storage to manage weapons or other breakdowns. Storage take less weight then engineering and is cheaper but engineering is better in the long run, especially for ships that is operating allot like survey ships, warships that mostly sit at port don't need as much engineering as a surveyor does.

In general I look at having an average maintenance time of about 50-100% more than the ships deployment time in engineering modules and then add storage if I need more MSP. Survey ships never get MSP storage, they should use all the engineering they can get.

So, a warship with a deployment time of 9 month would get engineering for 12-18 months and then perhaps some extra storage on top of that.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on July 30, 2022, 05:33:42 AM
So this thread has basically turned into a update on my game as I play it but I am learning quite a bit so I figure I will keep it up and see what else I can learn or tips I can get. 

some of my larger colonies are calling for military protection and a few of my frontier worlds are being scouted by the NPR I previously mentioned was to my "North".  As opposed to dropping a smegload of troops down quell the rabble I figured a defensive platform in orbit of some of the bigger colony systems and some of the smaller but more remote ones my ships take longer to get to would be appropriate.   I decided to build a fighter base using the already designed fighters and took another crack at my fighter bomber. 

My design here is built around sending out 2 groups one with x10 Conquers and one Eagle scout and my other is x9 Demolishers with a Eagle as well (I am not sure I need the Eagle as the Demolisher MFC should acquire its own targets so that might just be a spare or a picket fighter).   My plan is to use these with a as of yet undersigned sensor platform near the jump point or perhaps a sensor buoy network near the jump points to capture anything coming in the system.   The base itself is built to have a 25 yr service life (not every colony makes MSP so I figured the deployment time would tick up until I can rectify that) allowing them to be left alone for a while before they need to be towed back to a shipyard for overhaul.   The magazine and fuel capacity was targeting 3 sorties of everything the base has by which time I figure either I will be victorious or they will be on top of me.   For defenses the station has x8 of my tested gauss CIWS batteries since I figure the only real threat this would face would be missiles lobbed at either it or the planet from long range and if a enemy closes to close range I am probably already frakked.   The sensors I choose were to bracket the range of the fighter bomber (approx 50 mill before it needs to come home to refuel) and the missile one to shoot down incoming ordinance, the base also has a passive EM sensor so if someone does come in with their sensors online I will know even if they slip through the other sensors. 
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Paladin class Orbital Defence Base      30,000 tons       536 Crew       4,248 BP       TCS 600    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 316      Sensors 0/90/0/0      DCR 51      PPV 47.12
Maint Life 25.57 Years     MSP 24,293    AFR 141%    IFR 2.0%    1YR 71    5YR 1,072    Max Repair 180 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 10,000 tons     Magazine 1,105   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 300 months    Flight Crew Berths 200    Morale Check Required   

Fuel Capacity 2,500,000 Litres    Range N/A

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (8x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

BAE Systems Harpoon ASM R10Mkm (270)    Speed: 61,500 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 10.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 4.0000    TH: 246/147/73

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Tortorici-Cugini EMS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Strike Group
2x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99
10x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15009 km/s    Size: 9.99
9x Demolisher Fighter-bomber   Speed: 15018 km/s    Size: 9.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The Demolisher was also overhauled, the sensor was changed to target around 10M (the lowest it would go was 20M looking for a FAC so my thoughts there is if I can see a FAC at 20 ill probably see something bigger at much further).   The missile was changed out to now be much quicker targeting a 7000km/s 100% hit chance and can now be fired in volleys of 10.   This gives the squadron I launch the same weight of fire as my London DDGs which seems sufficient to overwhelm any PD I have seen so far in a smaller package.   10M seems like a decent range as well given I don't think any PD should reach me out that far.   As a result of this belief the armor was stripped down greatly to give me more wight for the weapons.   
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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber      500 tons       8 Crew       117.2 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15018 km/s      Armour 2-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 0.61 Years     MSP 10    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 16    5YR 245    Max Repair 75 MSP
Magazine 40   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 27,000 Litres    Range 0.78 billion km (14 hours at full power)

BAE Systems Harpoon ASM Rack (10)     Missile Size: 4.0    Hangar Reload 100 minutes    MF Reload 16 hours
BAE Harpoon ASM FMFC R20M (1)     Range 24.7m km    Resolution 20
BAE Systems Harpoon ASM R10Mkm (10)    Speed: 61,500 km/s    End: 2.7m     Range: 10.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 4.0000    TH: 246/147/73

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

Code: [Select]
BAE Systems Harpoon ASM
Missile Size: 4.0000 MSP  (10.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 12
Speed: 61,500 km/s     Fuel: 974     Flight Time: 3 minutes     Range: 10.06m km
Cost Per Missile: 8.5202     Development Cost: 852
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 738.0%   3k km/s 246.0%   5k km/s 147.6%   10k km/s 73.8%
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: kilo on July 30, 2022, 05:45:09 PM
I would strongly advise to use ground forces when it comes to fighting unrest. They are cheap, use a very much unique resource, as not much else requires vast amounts of vendarite and they do not consume MSP. The fact that they only require wealth for maintenance is quite handy. It is the only renewable resource in the game. Missiles can be killed by ground based weapons systems as well, which can be extremely hard to kill depending on the terrain type of the planet.
This way you can keep all the fleets together to counter enemy fleets more efficiently. On top of that smaller STO gun batteries can discourage enemy scouts from closing in on your planets. Particle beams and lances or lasers are pretty good at keeping the more determined ones at bay.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on July 30, 2022, 07:31:37 PM
I would strongly advise to use ground forces when it comes to fighting unrest. They are cheap, use a very much unique resource, as not much else requires vast amounts of vendarite and they do not consume MSP. The fact that they only require wealth for maintenance is quite handy. It is the only renewable resource in the game. Missiles can be killed by ground based weapons systems as well, which can be extremely hard to kill depending on the terrain type of the planet.
This way you can keep all the fleets together to counter enemy fleets more efficiently. On top of that smaller STO gun batteries can discourage enemy scouts from closing in on your planets. Particle beams and lances or lasers are pretty good at keeping the more determined ones at bay.

This might also be a role-play issue to some degree, not everyone are willing to use police force and brutality to control their population...  ;)
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: misanthropope on July 31, 2022, 04:45:06 AM
i mean, there's three headed aliens and stuff.  is it too crazy to RP that your police force uses a method other than overwhelming violence?
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: StarshipCactus on August 02, 2022, 07:54:21 AM
I personally imagine the unrest is more about criminal activity and the population genuinely just wanting a military force to protect them and does not necessarily represent violent civil unrest that needs police intervention. The latter it is a combination of people sending petitions/writing letters etc and local politicians/administrators asking the central government for assets to be deployed equal to the economic and strategic importance of their colony. A mix of ground and space forces is my response.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 02, 2022, 02:30:41 PM
Hello all,

I had my first actual military engagement with my forces against a fortified precursor planet.  I was able to match them in approx military tonnage (they had 3 auxiliary ships on orbit and STO support on the planet which I learned later) and while I won I realized that either my ships or my doctrine needs a update.  My missile ships performed well however the total concentration of PD and AMMs from both the planet and the fleet made them not helpful until I some of their ships broke formation to attempt to ram me after they ran out of ammo.  My beam frigates on the other hand were absolutely ravaged.  while I did swat down hundreds of size 4 ASMs that the other ships in the fleet fired at me once I got a lot closer I was getting hit by no less then 60 + AMM every 10 seconds with all of the ships in formation firing their PD and 3 Revetment DDs providing AMM defense. The Revetment I discovered is not armored nearly enough and as was told to me here they were focused by the enemy ships AMMs till they had to either fall out of formation due to engine damage or I broke them off due to massive internal damage.  My beam FFs fared better due to their much thicker armor and that the Revetments already soaked a lot of fire as we closed the range but their CIWS was almost useless against their missiles until I could get close enough to silence the AMM platform.  I have a few schools of thought to address the fleets current issues but I figured I would ask here.

The first school of thought is the Revetment having a Jump drive is causing it to suffer and I need a dedicated ship to fill the role of a jump tender for my fleet or keep my jump drives off any ship that might see actual combat keeping them on ships like my ASM FFGs / carriers.  This would free up some extra tonnage for more armor and PD / AMM batteries.  This would address the Revetment's shortfalls but would require me to retool a new production line for a ship I would need to design but seems like a reasonable solution, just a annoying one.

The second school of thought is that the Beam FFs are too small and need to be made 15000 like the Revetment to make better use of the hull.  I feel this is the weaker choice as the ships performed fine once I got into range but if they were bigger I could give them more PD guns and lasers.  Only downside is I would need to expand their shipyard and refit them all again with new engines.

My final school of thought is I designed a smegty PD gun and I need to update it.  I figured I would drop the design here to see what you all think.  I read plenty of discussion on how gauss PD works but its possible like much in this game I didn't understand the finer points and missed something glaring.

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Quad Gauss CIWS Turret
Damage Output 1    Rate of Fire 5 seconds     Range Modifier 10,000
Max Range 10,000 km     Turret Size 5.26 HS  (263 tons)     HTK 12
Cost 42.90    Crew 6
Maximum Tracking Speed: 20,000 km/s

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Guass CIWS Cannon (17%)
Damage Output 1      Rate of Fire 4 / 5s     Range Modifier 10,000
Max Range 10,000 km     Size 1 HS  (50 tons)    HTK 1
Cost 8    Crew 2
Development Cost

Any feedback would be appreciated.  I am still building a light beam cruiser to get a high tonnage brawler in my fleet but I am holding off to re-evaluate my plan (I wanted it to have a jump drive but that might be a bad idea given the most recent ship performance).
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 05, 2022, 12:13:31 PM
Hello all,

I read through a few different peoples fleet compositions on here and made some shifts in my intended fleet composition for normal actions. I decided that each ship "class" should have a equal size jump capable warship that can ferry it around and drawing some inspiration I have decided that I will build up fleets of individual squadrons of ships based on class. Moving forward I think I will have all of my capital ships have jump capability as having multiples of these ships of that size in a squadron might be cost prohibitive but that's for later planning.

Enter the saber class jump frigate. Designed to address the shortfall I have noticed in missile defense I have build this frigate to have purely point defense weapons and armor to soak up the hits from the missiles that leak through. This ship also has a resigned Gauss CIWS weapon that extend the range out further and has a slightly higher RoF while also using a slightly larger cannon (25%) in a triple turret.
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Sabre class Jump Frigate      10,000 tons       271 Crew       2,054.4 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 6-50      Armour 5-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 100      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 8      PPV 35.76
Maint Life 3.84 Years     MSP 1,527    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 163    5YR 2,449    Max Repair 350 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 10K W1.3kt     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 6

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 532,000 Litres    Range 44.8 billion km (74 days at full power)

Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (6x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The Revetment FLTIIA was a jump drive stripped version with more CIWS guns and a bigger magazine. The design was made to be similar to my Revetment FLT II to allow one shipyard to build both designs.
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Revetment FLTIIA class Missile Destroyer      15,000 tons       379 Crew       3,249.7 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 6-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 167      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 11      PPV 69.6
Maint Life 2.84 Years     MSP 1,873    AFR 162%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 340    5YR 5,102    Max Repair 525 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 435   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 726,000 Litres    Range 43.1 billion km (71 days at full power)

Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (10x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1.5Mkm (1)     Range 18.2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (435)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0.2m     Range: 1.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Feedback is appreciated, later tonight I will be posting a CL and JC design that I intend to build to give me fleet more punching power.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: StarshipCactus on August 06, 2022, 09:29:52 AM
Those ships look fairly solid to me, but I have not played for a while. I do like the inclusion of a small scout ship. A few of those in a fleet is always handy for many things. I also have small hospital ships and small boarding craft that can fit in a 250 ton hanger that all my frigates have. Hospital ships for rescuing crew or capturing enemy crew and boarding craft in case I see a crippled enemy ship with no guns and I think there might be good tech if I can bring it home. Or maybe just good salvage. If you're having issues with missile spam and you can't shoot them down, you can also build anti missile fighters and deploy them in front of your fleet relative to the missiles, although idk if you can get much anti missile ability out of a 250 ton fighter.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 06, 2022, 12:27:52 PM
So I see that a new version came out so I will keep going for a few more days to let it stabilize and restart (I was honestly thinking of doing a RP campaign to flex my writing chops but we will see if my job allows such luxuries.) As I mentioned earlier I have designed a Jump Light Cruiser and Light Cruiser to give me fleet a little bit of punching power. I will likely keep posting my designs over here to save them for when I change games to have some known good templates to reference.

The Prosecutor Class was designed to allow squadrons of 5 Light Cruisers to operate independently of the fleet as required and has enough firepower to tangle with most enemies. This design I based around using the 15cm Lasers as the close range fist which I could pack onboard in mass quantities as opposed to using fewer but larger lasers to keep up a larger volume of fire while I close (and the extra range were damage starts to be inflected is very minuscule in practice). Additionally I am packing more gauss CIWS onboard each ship to make them slightly more safe against missiles. I envision these operating with at least one squadron on AMM destroyers and at least 2 squadrons of FFs or FFGs, likely slanting more toward the FFs as they will complement the armament more.
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Prosecutor class Light Jump Cruiser      20,000 tons       606 Crew       4,421.8 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,800    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 4-50      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 186      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 13      PPV 92.68
Maint Life 3.63 Years     MSP 4,996    AFR 246%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 587    5YR 8,805    Max Repair 700.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 20K W2.2kt     Max Ship Size 20000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 4

Wärtsilä Mk1 IFD HS50 P1.4  EP1400.00 (2)    Power 2800.0    Fuel Use 41.49%    Signature 1400.00    Explosion 14%
Fuel Capacity 2,009,000 Litres    Range 43.6 billion km (72 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defence 15cm SXR Naval Laser (7)    Range 360,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 60,000 km    ROF 10       
Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (8x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO10 (3)     Total Power Output 30    Exp 5%
CERN International MCFR PO3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20077 km/s    Size: 5

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes


The bigger and more punchy Vanquisher was designed to accompany the Prosecutor in teams of 4 (1 Prosecutor to 4 Vanquishers) and was designed to have a similar volume of firepower to a few of my Falchion FFs. Armed with a mass number of smaller lasers and one larger spinal mount while still maintaining a respectable 8 GCIWS turrets my belief is that this ship when operating in formation with its fellows would not need support from other ships and acts as my first flag ship. I had toyed with the idea of using a shield on here but I don't know enough about them to know how much weight and armor I can sacrifice to make them worth it. When operating with my other forces it would allow me to break off "Squadrons" that are comprised of like tonnage ships t complete simultaneous objectives without sacrificing collective defense. Additionally with the significant number of smaller batteries and multiple fire controls I feel this might be the first ship I have capable of forcing a jump point if it was guarded with escorts.
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Vanquisher class Light Cruiser      20,000 tons       647 Crew       4,939.3 BP       TCS 400    TH 2,800    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 7-65       Shields 0-0       HTK 198      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 13      PPV 127.68
Maint Life 3.91 Years     MSP 5,206    AFR 246%    IFR 3.4%    1YR 540    5YR 8,093    Max Repair 700.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Wärtsilä Mk1 IFD HS50 P1.4  EP1400.00 (2)    Power 2800.0    Fuel Use 41.49%    Signature 1400.00    Explosion 14%
Fuel Capacity 1,987,000 Litres    Range 43.1 billion km (71 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defence 15cm SXR Naval Laser (14)    Range 360,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 60,000 km    ROF 10       
Triple General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS Turret (8x15)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (2)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (2)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO10 (6)     Total Power Output 60    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 10

Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20077 km/s    Size: 5

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

I have been on a designing spree this weekend and have also built up some auxiliaries and a troop dropship I will post here for feedback and reference once I migrate to the new version of the game. I will post them in another post as I feel more then 2 ships per post gets a little cluttered. Once again feedback is appreciated for the CL and the JCL if I missed anything.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 06, 2022, 12:55:21 PM
Brief update to my game, I have discovered some more Precursor planets a little further afield with very good mineral yields (before my survey ship was shredded) so I intended to move forces into the region and test my new fleet. To support this I finally got around to building dedicated auxiliaries to allow for my forces to proceed outside my local space without fear or running out of gas. I decided to try and design them to move slightly faster then my standard civilian ships while still being fairly quick to allow the fleet to maintain speed as they move along (most importantly they are still faster then any other empire yet countered)

The Edwin Drake (man who discovered oil) is designed around 50kt frame with a full fuel load for a standard fleet (1 JCL, 4 CL, 1 JDD, 3 DDG, 2 JF, 12 FF or FFGs) meaning that it can fuel them full from empty and make its way home. I included a jump drive to allow it to proceed to places that the fleet might move that are outside my jump network and would allow them to act as the jump tender for my other auxiliaries. The inclusion of hangar bays and cryo berths were to allow for it to carry replacement fighters / scout craft and accept survivors / prisoners post battle without the morale penalty. Finally these ships will be the first in a line to include a small navigational sensor suite (for RP reasons) and CIWS to have some poultry defense (honestly if they are shot at I made a massive mistake but its more for RP then anything else). I only intend to include CIWS on fleet auxiliary ships as they are pseudo military in nature (USNS or RFA type designations for those who know western fleet organizations)
 
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Edwin Drake class Jump Tanker      50,000 tons       381 Crew       2,154.6 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 5,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 1-120       Shields 0-0       HTK 67      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 26    Max Repair 625.0000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 1,000   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 40   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 50kt W6.75kt     Max Ship Size 50500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (2)    Power 5000.0    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 11,372,000 Litres    Range 2,894.8 billion km (6701 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 80,000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 142 hours

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Therman Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The Ambrosia Class is what I plan to accompany the Edwin Drake in pairs and is equipped with enough maintenance supplies to resupply my fleet to 50% from empty on its own and can carry a full war load of AMMs for a DDG formation by itself or 6 full reloads for DDGs Standard missiles when operating in a pair. This ship also contains a hangar deck to allow for replacement fighters / scout craft and when operating in a standard squadron (1 Edwin Drank and 2 Ambrosias) can fully resupply a CVL fighter wing (11 Conquerors) with extra space for smaller craft. As above this ship has the newly implemented navigation suite and some CIWS to keep give it some defense. The 100b range is my standard range for most civilian ships as I could also use these to move MSP around to stock a new bases / ammo from further afield colonies to the front line and allow them to remain on station for extended periods of time without tapping into the tankers fuel stores.
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Ambrosia class Replenishment Ship      50,000 tons       507 Crew       2,895.1 BP       TCS 1,000    TH 5,000    EM 0
5000 km/s      Armour 1-120       Shields 0-0       HTK 98      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 21,036    Max Repair 625.0000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     Magazine 2,500    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 6   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 40   

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (2)    Power 5000.0    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 443,000 Litres    Range 112.8 billion km (261 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (4x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Ordnance Transfer Rate: 80 MSP per hour     Complete Transfer 31.3 hours
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Therman Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

Again feedback is appreciated. While conducting a flyby of the precursor planet I discovered a fairly sizeable defense with possible STO batteries so my unarmored transports I have been using since the game started to ferry around my garrison units and geological survey teams will likely not survive the approach and will probably not have troop capacity to even establish a landing zone. I plan to design a Drop ship and ground force to load in it and as usual will likely post it here for feedback.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 13, 2022, 02:39:11 PM
Hello all,

As previously posted I completed the design for my dropship and it turned out to be a behemoth, one of the biggest ships in my fleet. I will also post the units I load in below along with some of my observations for peoples feedback.

The Valkyrie Assault Transport is designed to carry one brigade of troops to the field with the intention to have most of my brigade strength formations operate in groups of 4. The ship has its own jump drive (a controversial choice I am going to assume) for two reason, the first being a traditional jump tender would only act as a burden on the ships speed, and would facilitate me building another massive ship (capable of jumping around 75kt) to baby sit these ships outside my space. the second reason is frankly I don't do a lot of planetary assaults so having these ships capable of acting as a jump tender or bring exploration teams outside my jump network would be nice. 5,000 km/s is my standard auxiliary speed and the ship is armed with some GCIWS defense guns, and fairly heavily armored to protect it as it approaches. In practice I found I didn't need this much armor as I got in and out without really any issue given the relativity low rate of fire the STOs I was facing was.
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Valkyrie class Assault Transport      200,000 tons       1,514 Crew       9,747.6 BP       TCS 4,000    TH 20,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 5-304       Shields 0-0       HTK 315      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 30    Max Repair 625 MSP
Troop Capacity 50,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 15   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 200kt W26.75kt     Max Ship Size 200500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (8)    Power 20000    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,522,000 Litres    Range 96.9 billion km (224 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

My ground units are based around a 50000 weight brigades containing 3 battalions of 12500 weight formations. Each battalion with themselves contain 3 3125 weight companies. My philosophy revolved around the brigade being "themed" around the majority of the units, so for example a armored brigade would contain at least 2 armored battalions with a third battalion containing whatever I deem necessary to support the mission. I my general formations I have mixed 2 armored battalions containing heavy tanks with dual AP weapons and heavy tanks with dual HMGs as my primary striking power with a mechanized battalion which contains "IFVs" (Medium vehicles with medium autocannons and LMGs) and some light vehicle AT to help crack through the harder targets. I could design other types of battalions that are more geared to entrenchment and defense containing more fixed guns and construction units but that seemed counter productive to the current task of invading a planet. Each company sized formation contains a orbital support director unit so each company can receive orbital fire support (more on this later). Each HQ unit contains the standard trucks and construction vehicles along with some static artillery guns, naturally as the HQ gets bigger so does the battery size and support vehicle complement. Some questions tho:

Spoilers ahead as my questions are related to combat encounters against the precursors:
1. My double AT tanks seemed to have issues cracking through the precursor mechs, only really killing them when I had almost 2 companies engaging them simultaneously. My AT tank is rolling double HAV cannons each, are they just tanky in general or am I missing something
2. Ordering my HQ units to support a specific company resulted in them taking horrendous losses where when I ordered them back and to sit on support or rear echelon they were effective and shelling enemy units. is this how they are supposed to work, I just let them shoot at whatever they please and just revel in the results? Additionally the batteries were not all that effective in general, using medium bombardment didn't seem to do much to even the infantry units. My battalion sized formations have 10 guns each and my brigade HQ is rolling almost 50. Do I need to use heavy bombardment? Or perhaps I am using too few guns and should just be happy I am getting my HQ formations in on the action / did I just roll low?
3. My anti infantry tanks are using dual HMGs which seemed super effective at shredding the precursor (and I would assume any factions) infantry but after a while they were left fighting tanks. Do you guys use the HMGs on your infantry killing vehicles, LMGs or the autocannons. The LMGs are a lot cheaper to build but they don't have nearly the penetration the HMG has and while the tanks were not killing every tank they fought they did kill some, which I am not sure I would have if they were just LMGs. The autocannons on the other hand shoot a lot less shots but they have much more pen, which would make them more useful against armor but kill infantry less quickly.
4. The orbital fire support was less then stellar with my ships killing often less then 10 units per round of combat with hundreds of shots. There was even some instances of me having my 15cm armed laser cruisers shooting at ground units without penning them. My orbital fire support unit is just a light vehicle with the fire director attachment so is that the issue? Do I need to make a medium one with 2 directors to increase accuracy? Also is there a preferred orbit to surface support weapon?
5. How do xenoarcheological companies work? I dropped a couple formations of about 5k units 2 1k units of xenoarcheology vehicles and 2 1k units of construction vehicles as I read I needed them to complete the dig. Initially I discovered some stuff but the completion for the site isn't popping. Do I need more units / time or am I missed something. The settlement is a "ruined city" if that matters.

Thanks again for the feedback. I am moving to the new version soon so I figured I would dump my designs here before I do. I designed some new boat bay options for my warships which I would be interested in hearing opinions on.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: mtm84 on August 14, 2022, 12:37:12 AM
As far as xenoarchology goes, the amount of xeno points the formations on the plant has is the percent chance per year of discovering the ruins.  then each construction unit has a chance of recovering something after that.  A city usually has a lot of stuff to recover.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on August 14, 2022, 06:31:22 AM
Hello all,

As previously posted I completed the design for my dropship and it turned out to be a behemoth, one of the biggest ships in my fleet. I will also post the units I load in below along with some of my observations for peoples feedback.

The Valkyrie Assault Transport is designed to carry one brigade of troops to the field with the intention to have most of my brigade strength formations operate in groups of 4. The ship has its own jump drive (a controversial choice I am going to assume) for two reason, the first being a traditional jump tender would only act as a burden on the ships speed, and would facilitate me building another massive ship (capable of jumping around 75kt) to baby sit these ships outside my space. the second reason is frankly I don't do a lot of planetary assaults so having these ships capable of acting as a jump tender or bring exploration teams outside my jump network would be nice. 5,000 km/s is my standard auxiliary speed and the ship is armed with some GCIWS defense guns, and fairly heavily armored to protect it as it approaches. In practice I found I didn't need this much armor as I got in and out without really any issue given the relativity low rate of fire the STOs I was facing was.
Code: [Select]
Valkyrie class Assault Transport      200,000 tons       1,514 Crew       9,747.6 BP       TCS 4,000    TH 20,000    EM 0
5000 km/s    JR 2-25(C)      Armour 5-304       Shields 0-0       HTK 315      Sensors 1/1/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 30    Max Repair 625 MSP
Troop Capacity 50,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 15   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   

Lepros Drive Systems CJD 200kt W26.75kt     Max Ship Size 200500 tons    Distance 25k km     Squadron Size 2

Lafrancois-Quay  CIFD HS250 P.5 EP2500.00 (8)    Power 20000    Fuel Use 1.41%    Signature 2500    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,522,000 Litres    Range 96.9 billion km (224 days at full power)

Bushmaster MK1 Auxiliary Grade CIWS (5x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 20,000 km/s     ROF 5       
FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigation Sensor (1)     GPS 240     Range 28.4m km    Resolution 5
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10.6m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

My ground units are based around a 50000 weight brigades containing 3 battalions of 12500 weight formations. Each battalion with themselves contain 3 3125 weight companies. My philosophy revolved around the brigade being "themed" around the majority of the units, so for example a armored brigade would contain at least 2 armored battalions with a third battalion containing whatever I deem necessary to support the mission. I my general formations I have mixed 2 armored battalions containing heavy tanks with dual AP weapons and heavy tanks with dual HMGs as my primary striking power with a mechanized battalion which contains "IFVs" (Medium vehicles with medium autocannons and LMGs) and some light vehicle AT to help crack through the harder targets. I could design other types of battalions that are more geared to entrenchment and defense containing more fixed guns and construction units but that seemed counter productive to the current task of invading a planet. Each company sized formation contains a orbital support director unit so each company can receive orbital fire support (more on this later). Each HQ unit contains the standard trucks and construction vehicles along with some static artillery guns, naturally as the HQ gets bigger so does the battery size and support vehicle complement. Some questions tho:

Spoilers ahead as my questions are related to combat encounters against the precursors:
1. My double AT tanks seemed to have issues cracking through the precursor mechs, only really killing them when I had almost 2 companies engaging them simultaneously. My AT tank is rolling double HAV cannons each, are they just tanky in general or am I missing something
2. Ordering my HQ units to support a specific company resulted in them taking horrendous losses where when I ordered them back and to sit on support or rear echelon they were effective and shelling enemy units. is this how they are supposed to work, I just let them shoot at whatever they please and just revel in the results? Additionally the batteries were not all that effective in general, using medium bombardment didn't seem to do much to even the infantry units. My battalion sized formations have 10 guns each and my brigade HQ is rolling almost 50. Do I need to use heavy bombardment? Or perhaps I am using too few guns and should just be happy I am getting my HQ formations in on the action / did I just roll low?
3. My anti infantry tanks are using dual HMGs which seemed super effective at shredding the precursor (and I would assume any factions) infantry but after a while they were left fighting tanks. Do you guys use the HMGs on your infantry killing vehicles, LMGs or the autocannons. The LMGs are a lot cheaper to build but they don't have nearly the penetration the HMG has and while the tanks were not killing every tank they fought they did kill some, which I am not sure I would have if they were just LMGs. The autocannons on the other hand shoot a lot less shots but they have much more pen, which would make them more useful against armor but kill infantry less quickly.
4. The orbital fire support was less then stellar with my ships killing often less then 10 units per round of combat with hundreds of shots. There was even some instances of me having my 15cm armed laser cruisers shooting at ground units without penning them. My orbital fire support unit is just a light vehicle with the fire director attachment so is that the issue? Do I need to make a medium one with 2 directors to increase accuracy? Also is there a preferred orbit to surface support weapon?
5. How do xenoarcheological companies work? I dropped a couple formations of about 5k units 2 1k units of xenoarcheology vehicles and 2 1k units of construction vehicles as I read I needed them to complete the dig. Initially I discovered some stuff but the completion for the site isn't popping. Do I need more units / time or am I missed something. The settlement is a "ruined city" if that matters.

Thanks again for the feedback. I am moving to the new version soon so I figured I would dump my designs here before I do. I designed some new boat bay options for my warships which I would be interested in hearing opinions on.

That ship is insanely expensive for transferring ONLY 50k of troops... I would only transfer my elite troops in that thing... not the regular army guys.  ;)

As four ground combat... you need to consider technology differences. If their armour technology is higher than your weapon technology you might have issues penetrating and damaging them. Auto cannons is a great weapons especially if you have a technological edge in weapon tech over their armour technology.

You need to consider that when you attack if you are both on the same tech level you will need about 3-6 times the power of army over theirs, depending on the terrain of said planet.

When you support with heavy bombardment you should support them from reserve, that does not put them in direct line of fire.

If you kill of all their infantry first you simply did not bring enough tank killing power to infantry ratio... with that said... if you game the game you want to hold you AT tanks back until you killed off their infantry, thus not waste their expensive shots on their lowly infantry. Once most of the infantry is gone you can withdraw most of the infantry killing tanks and bring forward your AT tanks.

You should use infantry with your AT tanks so the enemy AT guns shoot at them more than your AT tanks.

In general I don't like to game the system, so I just design units and formation that make realistic sense and go from there, more role-play than trying to "win" the game.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 14, 2022, 07:12:22 AM
That ship is insanely expensive for transferring ONLY 50k of troops... I would only transfer my elite troops in that thing... not the regular army guys.  ;)
Out of curiosity what do you normally use? I naturally haven't sent out really any military invasions yet so this seemed like it was the bare minimum (minus the jump drive)

Quote
When you support with heavy bombardment you should support them from reserve, that does not put them in direct line of fire.
does this also apply to medium bombardment? I will try this when I find someone else to attack

Quote
As four ground combat... you need to consider technology differences. If their armour technology is higher than your weapon technology you might have issues penetrating and damaging them. Auto cannons is a great weapons especially if you have a technological edge in weapon tech over their armour technology.
How do I increase the weapon tech any more then just unlocking the specific weapon? I see the racial weapon strength, is this just derived from the highest damage weapon tech or something special in ground combat?

Also how do I reinforce after a battle. I made a second unit of the same brigade type and set them to be "used for reinforcement" but nothing seems to happen. Do I need the specify something on the unit receiving the reinforcements?
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on August 14, 2022, 07:45:55 AM
Quick update to my current game, my work has kept me away from my home for a bit longer then I expected and I don't want to jump into something completely new until I have stable internet so I plan to play through more of my current game to continue to learn more of the basics and then add the new stuff when I get back. I am planning on declaring war on the "northern" NPR to try and get at some of the rich TN minerals in his space and establish a more defensible front. As such I did a redesign on the Eagle with the lessons learned from the smaller excursions against the precursors and designed some new boat bay sized craft with the same lessons in mind. It became quite obvious that the Eagle didn't have enough range and stay time to remain on station for extended periods and was only really effective as a indirect targeting sensor and not as a scout which it was intended to act as. Additionally everything destroyer sized and up had one Eagle which was far more then was needed, so I designed some other craft to fill the boat bays of my ships to give them some flexibility.

The Eagle MK II reduces the speed to 15000km/s (to allow it to keep up with my fighters)  in exchange received a lot more fuel range and stay time. I am not sure if its just the systems I am operating in but almost universally 1b isn't enough to get from the jump point to a place in the inner system and back again, with the ships needing nearly 1.5b to even reach the outer planets in some cases. The longer say time is to allow it to loiter near a position as a sensor scout and detect enemies coming into a system. I toyed with the idea of adding a passive sensor or giving it passives all together and having 2 models but that seemed more expensive and would be more complicated however I do think a small thermal sensor near a jump point would be a good idea. The plan as of now is every jump capable ship to house one of these with more being bought by the fleet if required.
Code: [Select]
Eagle MK II class Scout      250 tons       9 Crew       120.1 BP       TCS 5    TH 75    EM 0
15053 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 6.47 Years     MSP 30    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 19    Max Repair 72 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin 250T FIFD MK II  HS 1.6 P2.35 EP75.20 (1)    Power 75.2    Fuel Use 846.58%    Signature 75.2    Explosion 23%
Fuel Capacity 43,000 Litres    Range 3.66 billion km (67 hours at full power)

Raytheon Eagle Eye ASS R200 MR118Mkm (1)     GPS 14400     Range 118.8m km    Resolution 200

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a a for auto-assignment purposes

The Mercy rescue shuttle is designed to allow my fleet to deploy a smaller craft to rescue survivors from a battle to avoid the morale penalty for overcrowding after the battle / while the battle is ongoing especially if I feel its not going well and might want to leave. Each squadron is likely going to have one of these in their ranks to allow for any larger formation to be able to hold 800 Sailors.
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Mercy class Rescue Shuttle      250 tons       5 Crew       57.6 BP       TCS 5    TH 75    EM 0
15053 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 7.06 Years     MSP 14    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 7    Max Repair 37.6 MSP
Cryogenic Berths 400   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin 250T FIFD MK II  HS 1.6 P2.35 EP75.20 (1)    Power 75.2    Fuel Use 846.58%    Signature 75.2    Explosion 23%
Fuel Capacity 48,000 Litres    Range 4.1 billion km (3 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Colony Ship for auto-assignment purposes

The Hoplite point defense shuttle is likely going to be the most common ship in my boat bays, equipped with a GCIWS cannon and a fire control they are built to follow around the ship they are launched from and provide more PD fire. The speed selected was my in the window of my max targeting speed while having room for the gun and its fire control. While I do admit these are not going to add a whole lot of extra fire they will be more useful then having a full formation of 12 ships carrying Eagles and they could be useful approaching a larger missile armed fleet.
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Hoplite class Point Defence Shuttle      250 tons       12 Crew       135 BP       TCS 5    TH 100    EM 0
20073 km/s      Armour 3-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 1.5
Maint Life 7.43 Years     MSP 33    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 16    Max Repair 56.7 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin FIFD HS1.7 P2.95 EP100.30 (1)    Power 100.3    Fuel Use 1450.08%    Signature 100.3    Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 6,000 Litres    Range 0.3 billion km (4 hours at full power)

General Dynamics "Phalanx" GCIWS (1x5)    Range 40,000km     TS: 20,073 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 25.00%     RM 40,000 km    ROF 5       
Lockheed Martin (F)GCIWS FBFC MR108km TS20k (SW) (1)     Max Range: 108,000 km   TS: 21,875 km/s     91 81 72 63 54 44 35 26 17 7

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on August 14, 2022, 11:42:48 AM
That ship is insanely expensive for transferring ONLY 50k of troops... I would only transfer my elite troops in that thing... not the regular army guys.  ;)
Out of curiosity what do you normally use? I naturally haven't sent out really any military invasions yet so this seemed like it was the bare minimum (minus the jump drive)

Quote
When you support with heavy bombardment you should support them from reserve, that does not put them in direct line of fire.
does this also apply to medium bombardment? I will try this when I find someone else to attack

Quote
As four ground combat... you need to consider technology differences. If their armour technology is higher than your weapon technology you might have issues penetrating and damaging them. Auto cannons is a great weapons especially if you have a technological edge in weapon tech over their armour technology.
How do I increase the weapon tech any more then just unlocking the specific weapon? I see the racial weapon strength, is this just derived from the highest damage weapon tech or something special in ground combat?

Also how do I reinforce after a battle. I made a second unit of the same brigade type and set them to be "used for reinforcement" but nothing seems to happen. Do I need the specify something on the unit receiving the reinforcements?


I misspoke on the bombardment units... medium support from reserve and heavy or long range from rear echelon.

For a normal troop transport I would just make it as minimalistic as possible, if you need to invade a large planet with two million troops you don't want expensive troop carriers. Less speed, little to no defences. Your fleets should take care of any ground to space defences long before your troop ships arrive... I don't even use Drop Bay transports for millions of tons armies.
Expensive assault carriers is only for the elite of the elite forces, your space marine forces, kind of... at least that is how I normally do it. I only need a limited amount of high speed, tough powerful assault carrier transports. For large invasions I need cheap and able to carry troops in large bulk.

As for bombarding planets... regular ships is not really suited for this... you need to build bombardment cruiser kind of ships for this. Use miniaturized lasers or railguns, that is your best options. Miniaturized infrared lasers are great as you can get relatively high damage for little research output. You simply have a relatively slow ships that travel with your troops carriers. As each is loaded with vast arrays of weapons you will get allot of attacks

Example
Code: [Select]
Volcano class Bombardment Cruiser      23,687 tons       721 Crew       1,460.3 BP       TCS 474    TH 1,250    EM 0
2638 km/s      Armour 5-73       Shields 0-0       HTK 144      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 175
Maint Life 3.66 Years     MSP 2,885    AFR 449%    IFR 6.2%    1YR 333    5YR 4,998    Max Repair 156.2500 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 months    Morale Check Required   

Commercial Ion Drive  EP625.00 (2)    Power 1250.0    Fuel Use 3.35%    Signature 625.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 56.6 billion km (248 days at full power)

20cm C0.05 Infrared Laser (25)    Range 100,000km     TS: 4,000 km/s     Power 10-0.05     RM 10,000 km    ROF 1000       
15.0cm C0.05 Infrared Laser (50)    Range 60,000km     TS: 4,000 km/s     Power 6-0.05     RM 10,000 km    ROF 600       
Beam Fire Control R256-TS4000 (2)     Max Range: 256,000 km   TS: 4,000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Magnetic Mirror Fusion Reactor R5 (1)     Total Power Output 5    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor AS8-R1 (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
EM Sensor EM1.0-11.0 (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-11.0 (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Warship for auto-assignment purposes
You should be able to build these in bulk as they are quite cheap, but they are military so will require maintenance and is not that useful outside of bombardment duty. They could add allot of alpha strike power at a jump gate defence or attack though. You also don't need that many FFD as they depend on the number of ships, not the number of guns on the ship. If you also manage to get them in range of a planet they should make short work of any STO as well... ;)


As for reinforcement you need to set the formation as "Use for Replacement" also create a Unite Series and then set that series as the Template... the game need this so it knows which type of units can be replaced and upgraded with what. This way you can even replace older infantry or tanks with new ones quite easy.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: nuclearslurpee on August 14, 2022, 12:33:09 PM
How do I increase the weapon tech any more then just unlocking the specific weapon? I see the racial weapon strength, is this just derived from the highest damage weapon tech or something special in ground combat?

Ground unit racial attack is based off your highest level of Laser caliber, Railgun caliber, Particle Beam Strength, or Plasma Carronade technology (note: no benefit from HPM, Meson, Gauss, or missile warhead techs). Honestly I think this is silly for a couple of reasons but that is how it works.


As for bombarding planets... regular ships is not really suited for this... you need to build bombardment cruiser kind of ships for this. Use miniaturized lasers or railguns, that is your best options. Miniaturized infrared lasers are great as you can get relatively high damage for little research output. You simply have a relatively slow ships that travel with your troops carriers. As each is loaded with vast arrays of weapons you will get allot of attacks

I've usually found railguns to be the most effective for this in terms of raw damage/DPM output, particularly the multiple shots as hit rates are very low for orbital bombardment so volume of fire accomplishes a lot. Maybe the lasers are cheaper in RP+BP cost if you don't mainline railguns though, but I do find that "regular" ships with railguns are effective enough in a pinch whereas if you use lasers or particle beams as a main weapon you do need the specialized ships much more urgently.

This is useful knowledge when you run a WH40K campaign as every ship has different weapons so force composition is a very flexible variable.  :P
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on August 16, 2022, 02:00:48 PM
As for bombarding planets... regular ships is not really suited for this... you need to build bombardment cruiser kind of ships for this. Use miniaturized lasers or railguns, that is your best options. Miniaturized infrared lasers are great as you can get relatively high damage for little research output. You simply have a relatively slow ships that travel with your troops carriers. As each is loaded with vast arrays of weapons you will get allot of attacks

I've usually found railguns to be the most effective for this in terms of raw damage/DPM output, particularly the multiple shots as hit rates are very low for orbital bombardment so volume of fire accomplishes a lot. Maybe the lasers are cheaper in RP+BP cost if you don't mainline railguns though, but I do find that "regular" ships with railguns are effective enough in a pinch whereas if you use lasers or particle beams as a main weapon you do need the specialized ships much more urgently.

This is useful knowledge when you run a WH40K campaign as every ship has different weapons so force composition is a very flexible variable.  :P

Railguns and lasers are pretty much equal in power... you actually can squeeze in a bit more with the lasers due to how miniatured lasers are rounded down on the size of the weapon, so a 15cm laser becomes only 100t. You need bigger railguns for the same damage effect of the lasers. Small railguns might work when units are low tech, but high tech infantry need more damage to kill them off. 15cm lasers are pretty great at killing most low tier units for a very cheap price.

But railguns and lasers are equally valuable weapons, just use whichever weapon you have available of the two. Bombardment cruisers as the one above actually can have an impact... bombardment also are not affected by certain planetary environments, such as low G for example.

The other benefit with a dedicated bombardment ship is that you don't need to maintain them... you just need to use them for the invasion.. then you can dismantle them, keep the components and build new ones if you need to make any large scale invasions again. You make such invasions so rarely you don't need to keep many of them around unless you actually need them.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on September 02, 2022, 10:35:51 AM
Im finally back!

So I have finally gotten back to the states from my trip and decided to give the new update a whirl. I have been surprised by the massive size of raider task forces, it seems they come in with almost 100k void tons of warships per "raid" so those laser FFs have been doing work so thank you all for helping me design a few good ships to help. On the topic of designs I decided to try something new since the new game set me bordering a much larger empire. I am interested in taking their territory at some point (they don't seem to upset that I am routinely moving through their territory so I have held off on any offensive actions as of now) but I want to gather some intel first, and I haven't really used the ELINT module and thanks to my encounters with some of the spoiler races I have tones of stealth tech

Enter the Raven stealth Corvette. If my understanding of this system is correct is has the cross section of a 500 ton vessel and size 80 thermal signature when moving full thrust. This seems like it should be small enough to allow me to sneak up to my neighbors planets and gather some intel without detection. The speed and range was selected to allow for independent operations to what I think is their home world and back and is faster then any of their warships I have encountered as well as the spoilers. I refuse to stabilize any jump point that I don't control both ends of to prevent some behemoth ships from being able to come in without jump shock so they will need one of my jump FFs to get out and into my territory. 
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Raven class Intelligence Corvette      5,000 tons       136 Crew       1,503.4 BP       TCS 10    TH 81    EM 0
5040 km/s      Armour 1-26       Shields 0-0       HTK 31      Sensors 90/90/0/0      DCR 3      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.56 Years     MSP 763    AFR 67%    IFR 0.9%    1YR 163    5YR 2,443    Max Repair 567.0000 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Skunkworks SMPD HS30 P1.05 EP504.00 (1)    Power 504.0    Fuel Use 26.09%    Signature 80.6400    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 448,000 Litres    Range 61.8 billion km (141 days at full power)

Raytheon "Bond" Class Stealth Ship EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
Raytheon "Bond" Class Stealth Ship Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km
ELINT Module (2)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 10.0% of normal

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Intelligence Ship for auto-assignment purposes

As always I appreciate the feedback, I feel much more confident now building ships with some of the great feedback I have already gotten so thank you all for making me feel welcome and helping teach me
Some questions tho:

-How do the intelligence points work? I understand i get them based on the amount of time I am there gathering and that I can learn specifics of sensors I am collection intel on but how do I spend them? do I have to encounter a thing to gather "intel" on it or does this just pool together and give me random goody bag of info info after I reach 100?

-For the stealth aspect, do you have a recommended speed to approach a target I think might have a sensor? I was planning on creeping in at like 25% power but I don't know if in any of your experiences this is necessary

Thank you all once again for the help. I am thinking on a more weight efficient anti piracy corvette to allow my dedicated warships to be freed up for combat operations so I might throw my ideas in here.
Title: Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
Post by: Xanithas on September 21, 2022, 12:02:20 PM
Hello all,

After looking into it more the weight efficient anti piracy corvette seemed like a unnecessary expense and I have seen a lot of people pushing for carriers armed with FAC to counter these types of threats so I decided to give that a whirl with some pretty good results:

The Watchman escort carrier is deigned to carry 4 Thunderbolt Anti Piracy FAC and one Thunderhead Detection FAC to fry and overcome the stealth tech I am encountering. The Watchman is slightly faster then my fastest merchant ship and is built to follow my government freighter and tanker formations around escorting them as they go about the business I tasked them for. Fuel and maintenance supply values are to allow for the ship to operate as long as possible without resupply or refueling in areas I have seen lots of raider activity and will allow me to leave the carrier on station for extended periods of time in trade lanes protecting civilian merchant traffic as well.
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Watchman class Escort Carrier      40,000 tons       385 Crew       2,138.4 BP       TCS 800    TH 3,200    EM 0
4000 km/s      Armour 1-104       Shields 0-0       HTK 67      Sensors 1/14/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 13,508    Max Repair 400.0000 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 100   
Maintenance Modules: 2 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 5,000 tons

Foster-Wheeler CMFD HS160 P.5 EP1600.00 (2)    Power 3200.0    Fuel Use 1.77%    Signature 1600.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 3,000,000 Litres    Range 763.7 billion km (2209 days at full power)

FURUNO Civilian Grade Navigational Sensor (1)     GPS 2100     Range 39.8m km    Resolution 100
FURUNO Civilian Grade Thermal Navigation Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 1.4     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  9.4m km
FURUNO Civilian Grade EM Navigation Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  29.6m km

Strike Group
1x Thunderhead Early Warning Craft   Speed: 10501 km/s    Size: 20
4x Thunderbolt FLT II Fast Patrol Craft   Speed: 10503 km/s    Size: 19.99

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Carrier for auto-assignment purposes

The Thunderbolt FLT II was a direct upgrade from a earlier craft I was utilizing that was equipped with a 15cm Laser which allowed the ship to attack raiders outside their range to return fire but the damage I was doing was so low that often they would need to resupply before dispatching a entire formation of anything more then 2-3 ships. The FLT II uses particle beams to allow for more damage per shot across the range. While untested as of now I suspect these will be far superior given the low armor values of the enemy ships allowing each shot to penetrate. The range was chosen to allow for these ships to deploy form orbital hangers in some of my more developed star systems to act as a defense force. I might lower the "caliber" of the particle beam if I find I need more maintenance supplies to sustain combat as I just went with the largest "caliber" I could field but 6 I think is overkill against most of their ships.
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Thunderbolt FLT II class Fast Patrol Craft      1,000 tons       31 Crew       329.3 BP       TCS 20    TH 210    EM 0
10503 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 8      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 8
Maint Life 7.03 Years     MSP 382    AFR 23%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 14    5YR 203    Max Repair 105.00 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Morale Check Required   

Isotta Fraschini SMCD HS6 P1.75  EP210.00 (1)    Power 210.0    Fuel Use 209.21%    Signature 210.00    Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 60,000 Litres    Range 5.2 billion km (5 days at full power)

CERN Naval Grade Particle Beam (6) (1)    Range 200,000km     TS: 10,503 km/s     Power 15-5    ROF 15       
Kratos Defnece "Star Burst" Fixed Naval Laser SBFC (1)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 10,625 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
General Electric ICFR P5 (1)     Total Power Output 5    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a FAC for auto-assignment purposes

The Thunderhead was used as the pusdo FAC leader of each formation with sensors that are designed to target the average tonnage of a raider craft letting me pick them up and hold tracking on them from further away. They can also be deployed alone without the other FACs to let the carrier check its surroundings if it is operating outside my normal sensor web. it was for this reason I gave it a much longer deployment time for when the carrier is operating in a stationary position in a trade lane to give it the chance to use its sensors which are far better then what I can throw on the carrier.
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Thunderhead class Early Warning Craft      1,000 tons       33 Crew       410.6 BP       TCS 20    TH 210    EM 0
10501 km/s      Armour 2-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 5      Sensors 90/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 3.41 Years     MSP 139    AFR 23%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 18    5YR 273    Max Repair 180 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   

Isotta Fraschini SMCD HS6 P1.75  EP210.00 (1)    Power 210.0    Fuel Use 209.21%    Signature 210.00    Explosion 17%
Fuel Capacity 68,000 Litres    Range 5.9 billion km (6 days at full power)

Lockheed-Martin "Thunderhead" SASS (1)     GPS 1800     Range 69.2m km    Resolution 10
Raytheon "Bond" Class Stealth Ship Thermal Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Scout for auto-assignment purposes

As always feedback is appreciated. I have declared a war against the larger empire that is my neighbor to allow me to expand a bit so I expect I will be posting some new designs here soon. Thank you for all the help and feedback so far and hopefully someone else can benefit from these designs.