Author Topic: Cold War Comments Thread  (Read 74196 times)

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Offline Migi

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #420 on: June 11, 2021, 08:37:57 PM »
Firstly thanks for the updates, I enjoyed reading them.

As a rules question, I thought that only 1 ship can sit in each hex, is that not the case or did the Tormsk Union not place mines directly surounding the warp point?

When the BC came through the warp point, the targeting switched from the CL to the BC. When the SD came through the warp point, the targeting switched again to the SD.
Why was this done? Isn't getting a mission kill on an existing target more valuable than scratching the paint on a new ship? Especially with the SD's being much larger than the BC which were firing on them.
In addition to this, the CL were minesweepers, so reducing the number of functioning minesweepers would have potentially let the minefield survive and inflict damage on the rest of the rest of the fleet as it passed through, or maybe caused the minesweepers to spend more than 1 turn sweeping, which lets the Tormsk fleet keep getting 'free' missile hits.

Also I wasn't quite sure, are DSB-L one shot only and are they targeted by the command ship? It seems like another case where lack of focus fire left the CU with many functioning ships, whereas with more focus more of the ships would be mission kills, or is that the reason for using smaller hulls for minesweepers?
 

Offline ZimRathbone

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #421 on: June 11, 2021, 08:58:05 PM »

As a rules question, I thought that only 1 ship can sit in each hex, is that not the case or did the Tormsk Union not place mines directly surounding the warp point?


No, Starfire tactical hexes are huge (1/4 LS across) and even the biggest ships are of the order of a few hundred meters long.  There are no stacking limits,
Slàinte,

Mike
 
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Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #422 on: June 12, 2021, 01:07:13 AM »

When the BC came through the warp point, the targeting switched from the CL to the BC. When the SD came through the warp point, the targeting switched again to the SD.
Why was this done? Isn't getting a mission kill on an existing target more valuable than scratching the paint on a new ship? Especially with the SD's being much larger than the BC which were firing on them.
In addition to this, the CL were minesweepers, so reducing the number of functioning minesweepers would have potentially let the minefield survive and inflict damage on the rest of the rest of the fleet as it passed through, or maybe caused the minesweepers to spend more than 1 turn sweeping, which lets the Tormsk fleet keep getting 'free' missile hits.

As point defences are necessary to survive minesweeping efforts the ships are very hard missile targets.  So switching off them likely means more hits.  Also a ship that just transited in has degraded point defences so swapping over to it to get in as many possible hits as you can isn't entirely foolish.  "Stay on Target" is generally though best.  One thing that should be implemented in most games is that ships under fire perform at a lower level then ships not engaged...this would produce a more realistic combat environment where ships match up and not the entire fleet fires on a single ship.

Also I wasn't quite sure, are DSB-L one shot only and are they targeted by the command ship? It seems like another case where lack of focus fire left the CU with many functioning ships, whereas with more focus more of the ships would be mission kills, or is that the reason for using smaller hulls for minesweepers?

DSB-L are bomb pumped X-ray lasers so are one shot and they target according to rules defined when they are activated but basically target every ships in their pre-defined engagement range.  The command ship basically hits "EXECUTE" and the buoy runs the program.  So the more ships the less damage each ship is likely to take.  In order of decreasing size each ship is targeted by a buoy...if more ships that buoys the larger ships are targeted first; if more buoys than ships then the largest to smallest ships are targeted by a second buoy and so on.  So for example: 25 ships  and 5 buoys the 5 largest ships get hit, 5 ships and 25 buoys each ship gets 5, 25 ships and 35 buoys the 10 largest ships get 2 and rest 1.  Buoys can only target large units (I think this is the correct confusing SF rules category) at this tech level and can't differentiate based on class or size.

As gunbboats are targeted as ships they are added in...and this is where Starslayer gets annoyed with me as I then split my buoys into groups of 6 and each group of 6 fires so only the 6 largest targets get engaged ...  it is a bit gamey but within the rules and otherwise you waste a lot of shots on gunboats...mind you I also want to use buoys to clear out gunboats so at other times I use large groups just to make sure the ships don't get in the way of that.  But firing IDEW-P at gunboats???
 
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Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #423 on: June 12, 2021, 08:37:44 AM »
Firstly thanks for the updates, I enjoyed reading them.

As a rules question, I thought that only 1 ship can sit in each hex, is that not the case or did the Tormsk Union not place mines directly surounding the warp point?

As Paul noted, there are no stacking limits.  As for the mines, they cannot be placed directly in the hex containing the warp point, so this effectively creates a safe space in the warp point entry hex on the map for attacking ships.  Of course, they are only safe from the mines, not defending ships or buoys.  Mines can be placed directly on a closed warp point hex, meaning that as soon as the attacking ships jump in they are attacked by the mines, giving them no safe space.  The warp point into the Tomsk Union system is actually a closed warp point, so the Tomsk Union could have placed mines directly on the warp point, but I had decided way in advance of this event that the Tomsk Union would not do that, as they were maintaining diplomatic contact with the Colonial Union and were hoping for an improvement in relations.  In terms of economics, the Colonial Union is as large as the Tomsk Union and the Bjering put together, although it is lower tech.  In any case, the Tomsk Union didn't want to cause an interstellar incident by accidentally blowing up a Colonial Union diplomatic ship, so they hamstrung their own defenses.  They did this in the knowledge that the Bjering would back them up, and they were fairly sure the Colonial Union didn't want a long war on their hands.  Their entire strategy was based on the belief that if they made it too difficult and costly for the Colonial Union, Union forces would be forced to give up and leave by public opinion in their core systems.   

Quote
When the BC came through the warp point, the targeting switched from the CL to the BC. When the SD came through the warp point, the targeting switched again to the SD.
Why was this done? Isn't getting a mission kill on an existing target more valuable than scratching the paint on a new ship? Especially with the SD's being much larger than the BC which were firing on them.
In addition to this, the CL were minesweepers, so reducing the number of functioning minesweepers would have potentially let the minefield survive and inflict damage on the rest of the rest of the fleet as it passed through, or maybe caused the minesweepers to spend more than 1 turn sweeping, which lets the Tormsk fleet keep getting 'free' missile hits.

This was exactly what Paul said.  The defenders were trying to damage as many ships as they could on the turn they entered, taking advantage of the fact that they were out of their datalink networks and their point defense was degraded.  Also, from the Tomsk point of view, they were trying to inflict a lot of damage, not destroy ships.  Destroying ships would piss off the United Colonial Defense Fleet, and risked rousing the Colonial Union's population against them.  Instead, by damaging as many ships as possible, they were creating a problem for the Colonial Union, and reducing the number of ships that could move forward against them in the next phase of the battle, which would be around the capital planet, where the Bjering would come into play. 

Quote
Also I wasn't quite sure, are DSB-L one shot only and are they targeted by the command ship? It seems like another case where lack of focus fire left the CU with many functioning ships, whereas with more focus more of the ships would be mission kills, or is that the reason for using smaller hulls for minesweepers?

They are one shot, although there are higher tech buoys which can recharge, although not in time to fire again in a battle.  Preferably, the Tomsk Union would have preferred to fire their buoys earlier in the battle, where they would have caused damage to fewer ships, but would have caused more serious damage to those ships.  Unfortunately, the Tomsk Union only had two ships at the warp point that had control systems for the buoys, and by they time they activated it was too late to focus on fewer ships. 

Kurt 
 
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Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #424 on: June 13, 2021, 05:12:28 AM »
To make a personal point to Kurt's comments that I, to be clear, agree with on switching targeting:  when it is clear the defenders can't win the defence I switch from destroying to inflicting hard damage (inside shields) as my opinion is that recovery, repair and so on of these damaged ships inflicts more "friction" on the victor than a smaller number of outright lost ships will.  Worst case the victor may have to scuttle them...or else they will have to go back to be repaired then come forward again with a lowered crew quality due to battle damage and so on.

Then there is the soft factors of not killing ships crews and so on.  In this sort of battle it matters how you fight a lot more than when you dealing with a bug horde.

One further point with regards to mines and closed warp points.  What I do is have the mines in the closed warp point hex itself under command control not left on...so they are brought up only if needed.  This stops an IFF error and also to a degree makes them more effective.  But I can also understand NOT placing mines there.  One would expect to see politicians from the side of the defenders now asking "Why didn't you emplace them you idiots?!?!"  "Military Bumbling At Its Best!!!" and so on...
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #425 on: June 13, 2021, 11:38:21 AM »
To make a personal point to Kurt's comments that I, to be clear, agree with on switching targeting:  when it is clear the defenders can't win the defence I switch from destroying to inflicting hard damage (inside shields) as my opinion is that recovery, repair and so on of these damaged ships inflicts more "friction" on the victor than a smaller number of outright lost ships will.  Worst case the victor may have to scuttle them...or else they will have to go back to be repaired then come forward again with a lowered crew quality due to battle damage and so on.

Then there is the soft factors of not killing ships crews and so on.  In this sort of battle it matters how you fight a lot more than when you dealing with a bug horde.

One further point with regards to mines and closed warp points.  What I do is have the mines in the closed warp point hex itself under command control not left on...so they are brought up only if needed.  This stops an IFF error and also to a degree makes them more effective.  But I can also understand NOT placing mines there.  One would expect to see politicians from the side of the defenders now asking "Why didn't you emplace them you idiots?!?!"  "Military Bumbling At Its Best!!!" and so on...

Needless to say, the Tomsk government's attitude about placing mines on the warp point has changed, substantially. 

Kurt
 

Offline Starslayer_D

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #426 on: June 17, 2021, 09:23:37 AM »
Yes, diplomacy rolls can be strange at times. Just ask Paula bout the Cats who say Nnnnjoo....
Or the simeans, who the RM attacked, then  after a spirited but doomed WP defense they made an offer to aka.. join us epacefully or be subjugated... and got a partnership counteroffer...

We had a few very strange diplomacy rolls in this campaign.
Also the fascist ugolates who turned a trade & military offer into a bloody conflict by getting the 'mortally offended' result on the relationshoips.
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #427 on: June 26, 2021, 12:15:49 AM »
Kurt, looking over the last posts I see a trend towards not having assault capable fleets.  Virtually everyone has a fleet that is optimized for deep space battles.   This may make sense as most have been that but no one seems to have a fleet with an assault component.  In the game Starslayer and I have going, at around this tech level that was a mix of CA, BC, and BB.   Personally i find the BC a poor assault ship as it costs much more than a CA and is far less sturdy compared to BBs and so tend to use CA&BB.  With your changed WP rules I have no idea how to go about determining what size ship makes most sense.  But outside of the CU no one seems to be considering how they will get through a defended WP.  How to defend one seems to be everyone's question.

I have a request, as everyone seems enamoured with fighters and we skipped over this TL without significant combat, or at least combat that wasn't F0 vrs pGB, could you make some comments later on how you see the balance going with the 3rdR changes, I'd like to know if my view is personal or something other people are seeing.  One point that I noticed from playing through the SAW scenarios for the start of ISW3 was that fighters are great against lighter ships, awesome against bases but against sufficient numbers of capital ships they suddenly deflate.  Against the combination anti-fighter escorts and capital ships they take serious losses, and this with the SAW designs (no Ai, S0, Zi, etc).  I'm very curious what your experience is, particularly with F0/F1.

Do you plan to limit the number of shot fL can take?  The München group decided that it, in particular, needed reigning in.   We settled on 3 anti-shipping shots and unlimited dogfighting.
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #428 on: June 26, 2021, 08:23:23 AM »
Kurt, looking over the last posts I see a trend towards not having assault capable fleets.  Virtually everyone has a fleet that is optimized for deep space battles.   This may make sense as most have been that but no one seems to have a fleet with an assault component.  In the game Starslayer and I have going, at around this tech level that was a mix of CA, BC, and BB.   Personally i find the BC a poor assault ship as it costs much more than a CA and is far less sturdy compared to BBs and so tend to use CA&BB.  With your changed WP rules I have no idea how to go about determining what size ship makes most sense.  But outside of the CU no one seems to be considering how they will get through a defended WP.  How to defend one seems to be everyone's question.

Well observed.  You aren't wrong.  Here's the major race's attitudes on this issue:

D'Bringi Alliance: They hate the thought of the massive casualties involved in an assault, and in particular the Rehorish don't want to throw their well-trained crews into a meat grinder.  Because of this they are focused on building up their defenses and their mobile fleet.  With a large mobile fleet they can take advantage of any links to Mintek systems they discover, or the Mintek reveal. The Rehorish, who largely control strategic thought in the alliance, are focused on mobile warfare that allows them to use their fighters and elite crews to their maximum advantage.  There are those that recognize the value of an assault capability, just as an option to have on hand if needed.  The T'Pau, in particular, recognize that having this capability is vital and their battleship that they are building is indeed a heavy assault design. 

Colonial Union: The New Dawnists are using the Union Assault Corps as a recruiting tool and a point of national pride, so its more of a political thing for them than anything else.  Still, it is an assault corps, and they learned some valuable lessons from their recent failed attack.  Primarily that their light cruisers are too small for their intended roles.  Therefore, they are bringing some cruisers out of mothballs to be refitted as the next generation of assault ships.  Now that SD's are in production, the UAC is going to make a play for the battleship hulls as well.  At this point, though, their targets are limited.  They have no interest in war with the D'Bringi Alliance, as they are too large and the general population has no interest in a long, bloody war.  And really, the New Dawnists have no particular interest in ruling over aliens.  That leaves Tomsk and the Confederated Free States.  Attacking the Confederated Free States will lead directly to war with the D'Bringi, and now they've learned that attacking Tomsk will lead to war with the Bjering. 

Bjering/Tomsk Alliance: This alliance is focused on peaceful expansion, and views its naval power as essentially defensive in nature.  Neither the Bjering nor the Tomsk governments have any interest in ruling over alien races that don't want to be in their alliance.  In particular, the Tomsk are completely defensive minded, probably to their detriment.  Much like the French before WW II, the Tomsk have focused on defensive measures to the detriment of offensive capability, mostly because their capital planet and most important system has a direct link to their biggest threat.

Mintek: The Mintek do have an assault fleet, based on SD hulls.  Their original SD force performed poorly, so they refit their remaining SD's into an assault variant with moderately heavy shields and armor, six fighters, and HET lasers.  They haven't had the opportunity to use them, and for the last several years they've been pressed into duty as defense stations in the home system, reinforcing fixed defenses.  The problem is that they know that the D'Bringi Alliance is larger than them, and therefore they can't afford attritional warfare against the larger empire.  They had a nifty assault plan for attacking the D'Bringi prepared defenses in the Phyriseq system, and then advancing into the Chruqua warp nexus and fragmenting the Alliance, using their assault ships and newly developed anti-matter weapons and SBM pods, but their economy wouldn't support the forces needed and now they're diverted by contact with the Bedu. 

Just a note on hull sizes for assault ships.  The two races with existing assault units are using the hulls they had on hand, not what is best.  The Colonial Union is using light cruisers because the old Soviet Union built a bunch for attacking the D'Bringi forces that were besieging the Solar System.  The USSR built light cruisers because it was the largest ship they felt they could build relatively quickly.  They were effective in the attack on the Tomsk system, but were revealed to be fragile, so the UAC will be moving to larger hulls if possible,  The Mintek are using SD's, but that is because they had SD hulls available.  Under the rules I am using the best size assault ship is dependent on the size of the warp point being assaulted.  If it is a 100 capacity warp point, then a battleship hull is perfect, because you can fit five through per turn.  If it is 100 hull spaces and you are using SD's, like the Mintek, then you are only going to be able to squeeze three through per turn.  Because of the uncertainty, most races are going to use whatever hull they have available, but anything over 100 hull spaces is going to be less effective.   

Quote
I have a request, as everyone seems enamoured with fighters and we skipped over this TL without significant combat, or at least combat that wasn't F0 vrs pGB, could you make some comments later on how you see the balance going with the 3rdR changes, I'd like to know if my view is personal or something other people are seeing.  One point that I noticed from playing through the SAW scenarios for the start of ISW3 was that fighters are great against lighter ships, awesome against bases but against sufficient numbers of capital ships they suddenly deflate.  Against the combination anti-fighter escorts and capital ships they take serious losses, and this with the SAW designs (no Ai, S0, Zi, etc).  I'm very curious what your experience is, particularly with F0/F1.

Do you plan to limit the number of shot fL can take?  The München group decided that it, in particular, needed reigning in.   We settled on 3 anti-shipping shots and unlimited dogfighting.

At this point the Colonial Union is the only race without fighter forces, but because of the recent battle they are aware of the threat and are building escort forces capable of engaging fighters, and their next refit program will likely increase the point defense on all designs, to counter the perceived threat.  They are close to developing their own fighters, and will likely go big as quickly as they can to remedy the perceived imbalance. 

My experience with fighters up to now is that they are the next generation of swarmers.  Swarmers can be very effective in the right circumstances, namely, when they out-mass their enemy by a significant margin.  When they don't they tend to take significant losses without inflicting significant damage.  When the swarmers are corvettes, figuring out the mass balance is easy because you are comparing hull spaces to hull spaces.  Its harder with fighters.  I'm curious to see how they fare against well-handled fleets of capital ships with escorts, when the defending fleet is not surprised by the fighters.  At this point in the campaign every one is either using fighters or has seen them, so surprise is gone.  We'll see what happens. 

I hadn't been aware that there is a concern with fL's.  From your comment above I'd guess that there are those that fear that they are too effective?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 08:25:47 AM by Kurt »
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #429 on: June 26, 2021, 11:37:15 AM »
i'm afraid at least in the München gang's (and mine as part of it) opinion they were far far far too effective.  6 F1's with FL does 18 damage per turn and can fire until the fighters themselves are destroyed.  Also there is the 1 LS circle of death which obliterates bases....basically the fighters circle doing max EM at 4 hexes and with a 3 to hit and a -1 to be hit by return fire can rip a base to pieces over time.   So yeah...personally yes it is too much.  It is basically due to the minimum damage being 1 pt but it is just way too much.  fL2 and fP are also overpowered.  The problem is that the fM series is underpowered, until fM2-LT2 then you have something which likely can do damage to ships.  Why you can't put an anti-matter warhead on fM1 or fM2 and why the advanced anti-matter warhead does less damage is beyond me.
 

Offline Starslayer_D

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #430 on: June 26, 2021, 12:15:41 PM »
To be honest, I am not sure how the balance changes at TL 10, TL11, Al and Dx do change the circle of death to a circle of impotence. They also defang fM-LT2. Current battles are somewhat inconclusive as they usually end one way or other before the carries wake up and send fights in close. But right now the bugs are holding their own with AFM abtteries and playing hedgehog. Though (still writing up) the last battle, trying to man the walls and keep the gunboats about for fleet defense did prevent them from going active. On the other hand, tehy served admirably as an expensive ablative armour for the fleet, as Paul was somewhat focused on engaging them. ;)

The restriction of prevalent 100 HS WPs has lead most races to adopt special BB designs as assault ships.
A special mention goes to the bugs, whom toss 6 probe BBs through a WP to get information and telemetry.

DAIKU III class BB     AM2    12 XOg Racks    100 Hull    TL 11
[2]S1x36Acx24AlAcx30HQ(III)(III)Q(III)(BbS)Q(HET2)HDx(III)Q(HET2)M5?jDx!3LhQ(HET2)Dx?kXr?3Wc(It2)ZiDxX(III)Mg[6]
100 RCP  110 FCP       Trg:6  Bmp +6  Tem -3  Cloak      Cost =  3530/ 529.5
HTK 133   S1x36  Alx1  Acx54  Dxx4  (HET2)x3  Wcx1  Mgx1 

And their Minesweepers are a bit of a legacy design, though they served admirably.

BB WOLVERINE II class BB     AM2    20 XO Racks    100 Hull    TL 10
[2]S1x45Acx48H(III-It)(BbS)(III-It)(III-It)?3(III-It)QDxx4LxDxDxLxQLhDxLx!2DxM5Xrs(Dec2)LxZiDxMg(III-It)[5]
100 RCP       Trg:6  Bmp +6  Tem -2        Cost =  3276/ 491.4
HTK 138   S1x45  Acx48  Dxx9  Lxx4  Mgx1 
10x CM LT2, 20x CAM (Mg), 20x BAM-Rc, 2x EDM (Mg)

Of course, should things get serious and the WP allow it, there's this:
ML HATAMOTO-HI II class ML     AM2    1 XO, 20 XOg Racks    165 Hull    TL 11
[3]S1x60Acx20AlAcx20AlAcx20(BbS)(IIIII)HLhQx5Fc2Fc2(IIIII)?3Fc2Fc2DxzDxzTi(IIIII)HQQFc2Fc2!3(It2)DxzTi?jMi2?kDxzDxzFc2Fc2QLhZ2Dxz(IIIII)MgMg[5]
165 RCP  35 MCP  200 FCP       Trg:11    Atk +2  Bmp +6  Tem -3  Cloak      Cost =  6128/ 919.2
HTK 180   S1x60  Alx2  Acx60  Dxzx6  Fc2x8  Tix2  Mgx2 
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #431 on: June 26, 2021, 02:33:10 PM »
i'm afraid at least in the München gang's (and mine as part of it) opinion they were far far far too effective.  6 F1's with FL does 18 damage per turn and can fire until the fighters themselves are destroyed.  Also there is the 1 LS circle of death which obliterates bases....basically the fighters circle doing max EM at 4 hexes and with a 3 to hit and a -1 to be hit by return fire can rip a base to pieces over time.   So yeah...personally yes it is too much.  It is basically due to the minimum damage being 1 pt but it is just way too much.  fL2 and fP are also overpowered.  The problem is that the fM series is underpowered, until fM2-LT2 then you have something which likely can do damage to ships.  Why you can't put an anti-matter warhead on fM1 or fM2 and why the advanced anti-matter warhead does less damage is beyond me.

I'll keep an eye on that.  My memory was that fighters equipped with fG had the advantage over fighters equipped with fL, however, having looked at the rules, a group of F1's equipped with 3 fL has twice the range over fighters with fG.  Worse for the fighters with fG, not only can the fighters with fL engage at ranges 2-3 without return fire, but the fL's only suffer a slight disadvantage at range 1, although the fG's gain a pretty good advantage at range 0.  Add to that the fact that fighters with fL can engage both fighters and ships, the advantage becomes even better.  I'll have to think about this. 
 

Offline Kurt (OP)

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #432 on: June 26, 2021, 02:36:25 PM »
To be honest, I am not sure how the balance changes at TL 10, TL11, Al and Dx do change the circle of death to a circle of impotence. They also defang fM-LT2. Current battles are somewhat inconclusive as they usually end one way or other before the carries wake up and send fights in close. But right now the bugs are holding their own with AFM abtteries and playing hedgehog. Though (still writing up) the last battle, trying to man the walls and keep the gunboats about for fleet defense did prevent them from going active. On the other hand, tehy served admirably as an expensive ablative armour for the fleet, as Paul was somewhat focused on engaging them. ;)

The restriction of prevalent 100 HS WPs has lead most races to adopt special BB designs as assault ships.
A special mention goes to the bugs, whom toss 6 probe BBs through a WP to get information and telemetry.

DAIKU III class BB     AM2    12 XOg Racks    100 Hull    TL 11
[2]S1x36Acx24AlAcx30HQ(III)(III)Q(III)(BbS)Q(HET2)HDx(III)Q(HET2)M5?jDx!3LhQ(HET2)Dx?kXr?3Wc(It2)ZiDxX(III)Mg[6]
100 RCP  110 FCP       Trg:6  Bmp +6  Tem -3  Cloak      Cost =  3530/ 529.5
HTK 133   S1x36  Alx1  Acx54  Dxx4  (HET2)x3  Wcx1  Mgx1 

And their Minesweepers are a bit of a legacy design, though they served admirably.

BB WOLVERINE II class BB     AM2    20 XO Racks    100 Hull    TL 10
[2]S1x45Acx48H(III-It)(BbS)(III-It)(III-It)?3(III-It)QDxx4LxDxDxLxQLhDxLx!2DxM5Xrs(Dec2)LxZiDxMg(III-It)[5]
100 RCP       Trg:6  Bmp +6  Tem -2        Cost =  3276/ 491.4
HTK 138   S1x45  Acx48  Dxx9  Lxx4  Mgx1 
10x CM LT2, 20x CAM (Mg), 20x BAM-Rc, 2x EDM (Mg)

Of course, should things get serious and the WP allow it, there's this:
ML HATAMOTO-HI II class ML     AM2    1 XO, 20 XOg Racks    165 Hull    TL 11
[3]S1x60Acx20AlAcx20AlAcx20(BbS)(IIIII)HLhQx5Fc2Fc2(IIIII)?3Fc2Fc2DxzDxzTi(IIIII)HQQFc2Fc2!3(It2)DxzTi?jMi2?kDxzDxzFc2Fc2QLhZ2Dxz(IIIII)MgMg[5]
165 RCP  35 MCP  200 FCP       Trg:11    Atk +2  Bmp +6  Tem -3  Cloak      Cost =  6128/ 919.2
HTK 180   S1x60  Alx2  Acx60  Dxzx6  Fc2x8  Tix2  Mgx2

those are some serious assault ships, and, of course, beyond my current tech levels.  I'm hoping to reach fairly high tech levels with this campaign, though, so hopefully I will get there. 
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #433 on: June 27, 2021, 01:24:46 AM »
Well closer to your TL is the Shanirian Intrepid class designed to scout warp points:

INTREPID class BB     AM2    20 XOa Racks    100 Hull    TL 9
[2] S0x40Acx48H(BbM)QTi(III)GDi(III)GDiDzQ(III)GDiDzGDzM3!2?jXrCLhQGDz?2XZi(III)Mg(III) [5]
100 RCP  50 MCP       Trg:4  Bmp +4  Tem -2        Cost =  2586/ 387.9
HTK 131   S0x40  Acx48  Dix3  Dzx4  Gx5  Tix1  Mgx1 
50x GM-a, 7x CM, 10x CAM (Mg), 15x BAM-G, 4x EDM (Mg)

or the Principii, and Hastasi classes which are the WP assault ships (lower tech versions) which are the standard assault ships/minesweepers

PRINCIPII class BB     AM    20 XO Racks    100 Hull    TL 7
[3] S0x38Aix30ZH(BbM)(III)?1(III)DGDQDGD(III)TiDGDMgDGDM3GMg!1DXrCLhQD(III)(III) [5]
100 RCP       Trg:4  Bmp +2  Tem -1        Cost =  2049/ 307.4
HTK 112   S0x38  Aix30  Dx10  Gx5  Tix1  Mgx2 
100x GM-a, 10x CM, 18x CAM (Mg), 35x BAM-G, 8x EDM (Mg)

HASTATI class CA     AM    12 XO Racks    60 Hull    TL 5
[2] Sx5Aix16ZH(II)Q(II)(II)PbGGM2GDGD(BbS)(II)CDXrLhQGMgD(II)(II) [6]
60 RCP  40 MCP       Trg:3        Cost =  996/ 149.4
HTK 53   Sx5  Aix16  Dx4  Gx5  Mgx1 
80x GM, 12x SM, 6x CM, 4x EDM (Mg)

Ignore the more advanced missiles where TL inappropriate!

Actually the fL gets more disgusting dogfighting wise as with F2 the lower tech fighters F0 especially can never reach engagement range with fG...the SAW scenario "When Enemies Join Hands" I added "The Rigillians Dance On Their Graves" to...the Alliance has F0 the Rigillians F2 and my first strike was aimed at dogfighting their fighters away, then I realized I could hit their ships...then it dawned on me...the carriers you twit...and we stopped when i started strafing the carriers with my onboard fL.   I found that most of Webbers write ups after most scenarios were at extreme odds to what we saw playing them out.  I'm still baffled by how "naval intellegence" could actually work with a WP between you and the enemy...the abortive RM-Thing war was due to me assuming I could make some inroads on them and then stop...and rinse and repeat sort of thing...but the utter lack of any idea what I was facing had me hitting two key systems ASAP and then running into WP size limitations and logistics issues.  But starting a war with effectively zero info on what is on the other side of the hill...ugggh
 

Offline Starslayer_D

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Re: Cold War Comments Thread
« Reply #434 on: June 27, 2021, 05:51:22 AM »
Well, the RM attacked 2 must-hold systems of the Thing, and the WP defenses were thus strong. Both systems had major shipyards able to churn out defenses.

As for theban assault ships... allthough they had not yet assaulted a WP.

CA DUA IV class CA     AM2    12 XO Racks    60 Hull    TL 10
[1] S1x9Acx21H(BbS)(II)Q(II)Dx(II)Dx(II)Dx(II)!2?3M3Lxx4(Dec2)MgDxZiLhQ(II) [6]
60 RCP  40 MCP       Trg:4  Bmp +6  Tem -2        Cost =  1619/ 242.8
HTK 61   S1x9  Acx21  Dxx4  Lxx4  Mgx1 

CA URT-HEKAU IV class CA     AM2    12 XO Racks    60 Hull    TL 9
[1] S0x12Acx30(BbS)H(II)Q(II)?2XrsL(II)DzL(II)DzM3L(II)DzZi!2QLhL(II) [6]
60 RCP  40 MCP       Trg:4  Bmp +4  Tem -2        Cost =  1384/ 207.6
HTK 71   S0x12  Acx30  Dzx3  Lx4 

BB KHNUM II class BB     AM2    20 XO Racks    100 Hull    TL 10
[2]S1x24Acx39H(BbS)WaWaQ(III)?3RcRc(III)WaWaXr(III)Mi1DcxWax3DxDcx(III)DxLhQWax3!2?jDxZi(III)MgMg[5]
100 RCP       Trg:9    Atk +1  Bmp +6  Tem -2        Cost =  3123/ 468.4
HTK 106   S1x24  Acx39  Dcxx2  Dxx3  Wax10  Mgx2 

No assault SD from the Thebans directly, but they inherited a class from the Andromedans:
SD GARUDA III class SD     AM2    26 XO Racks    130 Hull    TL 10
[3] S1x30Acx42HQ(IIII)H(IIII)FcQ(IIII)Fcx3DxDxFc(IIII)LhQFc(BbS)Xr!2FcMi1?3FcFcDxDxZiFc(IIII) [5]
130 RCP  20 MCP       Trg:9    Atk +1  Bmp +6  Tem -2        Cost =  3645/ 546.7
HTK 117   S1x30  Acx42  Dxx4  Fcx10 

In my opinion the thebans, unlike the bugy,  still have a lesson or two to learn about WP assaults.