Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: January 28, 2021, 09:58:35 PM »You could just use abstract icons most of the time...
Then there's no point in having a 3d model to look at - might as well just do something similar to aurora
Well, yes, I principally agree
Well, yes, I principally agree
Posted by: Droll
« on: January 28, 2021, 09:11:35 PM »You could just use abstract icons most of the time...
Then there's no point in having a 3d model to look at - might as well just do something similar to aurora
Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: January 28, 2021, 09:09:09 PM »You could just use abstract icons most of the time...
Posted by: Droll
« on: January 28, 2021, 09:07:50 PM »Game seems cool, though I'm disappointed by the scale fail. As with most space games, ships are waaay too big relative to planets and planets are way too big relative to the spaces between them. I get that this results in more interesting tactical options, but it's hard to claim attention to detail as a selling point when you have ships playing hide and seek in the asteroid belt. Nasa doesn't even check the path of its spacecraft before chucking them through the belt it's so empty.
Aurora and EVE Online are the only games I'm aware of that get the scale right.
Distant worlds with some mods can be coaxed into respecting scale. I can set a relative/absolute scale for my ships for example and make them appear properly small (or I can do the opposite and make them ridiculous) but this hits limitations with respect to AI empires.
The problem with scale in space games is that there is a tradeoff between UI visibility and scale accuracy. You can make ships tiny, but people will complain that selection and seeing their units is now too hard. You make ships hard and now they look as big as the planet which looks ridiculous.
Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: January 28, 2021, 09:04:15 PM »I'd also personally prefer getting the scale correct, or at least more-or-less correct.
Doesn't need to be exactly right, but the point stands that planets are really damned big. Frankly you could probably make a solar system detailed enough that you get more interaction and interesting stuff going on than most galaxy-spanning games just by nailing the sheer scale of this one star system alone. Many people like to assume that the earth is basically already 'at capacity' as such but I am more of the opinion that Isaac Arthur got it right: https://youtu.be/TqKQ94DtS54?t=1185
Basically for a high tech and highly industrialized civilization the earth could potentially house hundreds of billions alone without even necessarily getting particularly close to covering the surface.
There could be fairly massive and powerful civilizations (by our current standards) living on fairly minor bodies in the solar system, let alone major systems like the Jovian or Saturnian moons.
The level of complexity that such an environment could house is frankly quite spectacular and far beyond what most science fiction environments even scratch the surface of.
Doesn't need to be exactly right, but the point stands that planets are really damned big. Frankly you could probably make a solar system detailed enough that you get more interaction and interesting stuff going on than most galaxy-spanning games just by nailing the sheer scale of this one star system alone. Many people like to assume that the earth is basically already 'at capacity' as such but I am more of the opinion that Isaac Arthur got it right: https://youtu.be/TqKQ94DtS54?t=1185
Basically for a high tech and highly industrialized civilization the earth could potentially house hundreds of billions alone without even necessarily getting particularly close to covering the surface.
There could be fairly massive and powerful civilizations (by our current standards) living on fairly minor bodies in the solar system, let alone major systems like the Jovian or Saturnian moons.
The level of complexity that such an environment could house is frankly quite spectacular and far beyond what most science fiction environments even scratch the surface of.
Posted by: TheTalkingMeowth
« on: January 28, 2021, 08:42:15 PM »Game seems cool, though I'm disappointed by the scale fail. As with most space games, ships are waaay too big relative to planets and planets are way too big relative to the spaces between them. I get that this results in more interesting tactical options, but it's hard to claim attention to detail as a selling point when you have ships playing hide and seek in the asteroid belt. Nasa doesn't even check the path of its spacecraft before chucking them through the belt it's so empty.
Aurora and EVE Online are the only games I'm aware of that get the scale right.
Aurora and EVE Online are the only games I'm aware of that get the scale right.
Posted by: Gabrote42
« on: January 28, 2021, 05:58:13 PM »I found this from PartyElite. I am very excited. I don't think FTL implies interstellar civilizations. I mean, there were some really quick motorboats which were way quicker than sails and such but they were super fuel inefficient and overheated easily. No way you are getting to India with that.
Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: January 26, 2021, 10:45:49 PM »I also agree that FTL does not necessarily imply interstellar travel. I like the Pluto analogy, I low balled it (furthest distance between earth and pluto) and got 5500 times the distance, in any case that is a fairly big difference in capability.
Posted by: RougeNPS
« on: January 26, 2021, 05:46:21 PM »I'll answer your question with a question: do you know how big interstellar distances are? I didn't try to do exact calculations to check if it mimics the scale properly, but as a schema just for proving the concept I believe my comparsion between crossing some small river and ocean is good enough.
If they need allot of fuel and have trouble mining it in order to just provide for jump capability within the star system there is no viable reason to start expanding outside the solar system. At least not until that technology have been refined other than through scientific curiosity, something I don't think the game actually cover and need to cover as that is not part of the story.
I could probably make up 100 things that would force a civilisation to using FTL drives within their own solar system only.
Saying that it is just an engineering issue means you have some deep understanding of the lore and science of that setting, do you?!?
I mean...its taking inspiration from the Expanse...
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:50:38 PM »I'll answer your question with a question: do you know how big interstellar distances are? I didn't try to do exact calculations to check if it mimics the scale properly, but as a schema just for proving the concept I believe my comparsion between crossing some small river and ocean is good enough.
If they need allot of fuel and have trouble mining it in order to just provide for jump capability within the star system there is no viable reason to start expanding outside the solar system. At least not until that technology have been refined other than through scientific curiosity, something I don't think the game actually cover and need to cover as that is not part of the story.
I could probably make up 100 things that would force a civilisation to using FTL drives within their own solar system only.
Saying that it is just an engineering issue means you have some deep understanding of the lore and science of that setting, do you?!?
Posted by: RougeNPS
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:41:24 PM »I believe Squigles explains it better than i could.
Posted by: Squigles
« on: January 26, 2021, 02:53:40 PM »I'll answer your question with a question: do you know how big interstellar distances are? I didn't try to do exact calculations to check if it mimics the scale properly, but as a schema just for proving the concept I believe my comparsion between crossing some small river and ocean is good enough.
Well, the nearest solar system to our own is about 269k AU. That’s about the distance of traveling to Pluto 6,800 times. Closest Atlantic crossing is 1,600 miles, when scaled to the other proportion it would be a river approximately 1200 feet across.
In other words, making the closestinterstellar trip possible with a vessel capable of making FTL travel to Pluto in 3 hours (roughly double the speed of light) would take about 2 and a half years, and would be the equivalent for terrestrial purposes of suggesting a small primitive river vessel make a transatlantic voyage.
Posted by: Stormtrooper
« on: January 26, 2021, 02:15:43 PM »I'll answer your question with a question: do you know how big interstellar distances are? I didn't try to do exact calculations to check if it mimics the scale properly, but as a schema just for proving the concept I believe my comparsion between crossing some small river and ocean is good enough.
Posted by: RougeNPS
« on: January 26, 2021, 01:30:41 PM »civilization with FTL drive invented
limited to one solar system
pick one
As much as it looks so cool, one solar system is a deal breaker for me. Come on, FTL drive and yet nobody seems to do interstellar travel.
Do you know how big solar systems actually are? Also, in the function of the game, FTL is used to make intrasystem jumps, like LPs in Aurora.
Posted by: Malorn
« on: January 26, 2021, 01:22:56 PM »This is just a matter of engineering. Having FTL drive and not going interstellar is like using a transatlantic ship to cross a local river and go back. The idea of a game containing FTL drive but no interstellar exploration seems so bizarre and wrong to me, that's all.
I dunno. If your FTL is "2x lightspeed," interstellar exploration will be a thing but a true interstellar civ probably won't be. Not when every trip is several years.
And, similarly, no engineering can resolve a problem along the lines of "fuel consumption scales with the cube of the distance traveled" when combined with "every jump places major stresses on the hardware."
Like, yes that's an engineering challenge. But that doesn't mean there is a commercially viable solution.
To use a historical example. Getting to the Americas from Europe was an 'engineering challenge' since roughly the time of the Phoenicians. And yet it took another ~3000 years before it was a 'common thing' to any extent. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it is something that is actually feasible. Have to side with Meowth on this one.
