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General Discussion / Re: Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread: C# Edition
« Last post by db48x on Yesterday at 09:00:18 PM »
Quote from: paolot on September 08, 2024, 08:30:31 AM
How should I design and use a spy/sensor probe?

Missile Size: 10.00 MSP  (25.000 Tons)     Warhead: 0    Radiation Damage: 0
Speed: 80,000 km/s     Fuel: 5,625     Flight Time: 41 minutes     Range: 195.26m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 1.2    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8,660,254 km
EM Sensor Strength: 1.2    Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8,660,254 km
Cost Per Missile: 23.84     Development Cost: 772
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 800%   3k km/s 266.7%   5k km/s 160%   10k km/s 80%

While it was traveling the sensors range appeared on the map.
Then when it arrived at the waypoint the sensors range disappeared.

Any missile with an engine self–destructs when it reaches its target or the fuel runs out. What you want to do is design a two–stage missile, where the second stage has sensors but no fuel or engine, and the first stage has the fuel and engine to get it there. Make sure that the deployment distance is 0, so that it drops the probe exactly on the target rather than the default of 150,000km away. The first stage can have sensors if you want, but remember that they will go away when the second stage buoy is released so you may prefer to use the MSP for something else.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestion: Mothball Fleet
« Last post by Louella on Yesterday at 01:03:00 PM »
Quote from: alex_brunius on Yesterday at 02:56:03 AM
Sounds like adding a new installation would just add extra complexity. Why not just have them use regular maintenance facilities

To make it more of a commitment, and more of a conscious choice.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by alex_brunius on Yesterday at 08:17:48 AM »
Quote from: Steve Walmsley on Yesterday at 06:39:41 AM
That is all without me taking any tax from them - if I taxed them the growth rate would be lower. In fact, if anything I have probably cut them back too much and might increase their income slightly before release.

Quote
Trade Good Changes
The base production of Trade Goods is halved. In addition, the production is multiplied by the manufacturing percentage of the colony, so smaller colonies will generally produce more trade goods per capita. For a homeworld, trade good production is likely to be about 1/8th of the existing level (halved and then multiplied by 25%).

Maybe scale back trade goods production to 1/4th of the 2.5 level (Just manufacturing percentage) and set Default Tax level twice as high to compensate and make the baseline shipping line income & growth the same (as in your test game)?
That will give all players more flexibility to experiment with tax vs growth in both directions + cater to players that don't mind the performance impact of having a bit larger shipping lines (with the downside of higher tax from shipping if balance is off).

That or expose a modifier for base production of Trade Goods to starting game setup.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by Cristo on Yesterday at 06:59:32 AM »
Quote from: alex_brunius on Yesterday at 06:58:15 AM
Quote from: Cristo on Yesterday at 06:54:27 AM
I'm not aware of being able to alter taxes on that, if that would slow their growth that would be great I'd love to hear more about it.

Upcomming change in 2.6 much anticipated!  ;D

https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg169793#msg169793

Absolutely fantastic, I'm sorry I missed those changes before posting!

Looks like 100% tax once they hit the size I want is perfect
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C# Suggestions / Re: Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by alex_brunius on Yesterday at 06:58:15 AM »
Quote from: Cristo on Yesterday at 06:54:27 AM
I'm not aware of being able to alter taxes on that, if that would slow their growth that would be great I'd love to hear more about it.

Upcomming change in 2.6 much anticipated!  ;D

https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg169793#msg169793
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C# Suggestions / Re: Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by Cristo on Yesterday at 06:54:27 AM »
    In my case it may be a problem partly because of my slow play-style. Conventional start with default settings except 20% research speed.
    89 years in I have 63m tons of civilian shipping across 572 ships and 7 lines.

    Awesome to hear this may be improved in 2.6

    In terms of performance with civilians I can run 146 days in 60 seconds
    Without them that number of days is 2,905
    This is a pretty massive performance cost in my view - 20x slower! Especially if you want them to play more of a flavour element.

    They trivially provide all instillation and colonist transportation with a small fraction of their available shipping.

    I'm not aware of being able to alter taxes on that, if that would slow their growth that would be great I'd love to hear more about it.

    To me the ideal cases would be (in order of preference)
    1. Add more classes as mentioned to control ship count growth
    2. Add ways to constrain their ship count (like a player set "have no more than 100 ships")
    3. Improve ways to delete some but not all ships a line has. Right now I have auto-hotkey deleting them ship by ship to control the size but it's pretty cumbersome.

    Looking forward to hearing more about and playing the 2.6 which might make all that redundant!
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C# Suggestions / Re: Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by Steve Walmsley on Yesterday at 06:39:41 AM »
Civilian lines are much smaller anyway in v2.6 due to the changes I made.

I'm 25 years into my campaign, with a 2b start. I have 3 shipping lines, with the 2 extra starting very early. There are now sixty two ships in all three lines combined, totaling 3m tons. My own fleet is much larger than the civilians.

They now seem to be as originally intended - adding background flavour, rather than the primary source of transport and colonization.

That is all without me taking any tax from them - if I taxed them the growth rate would be lower. In fact, if anything I have probably cut them back too much and might increase their income slightly before release.
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C# Suggestions / Add new larger classes of ships for civilians
« Last post by Cristo on Yesterday at 06:06:51 AM »
I was really excited about this change in 2.2:
- After a shipping line has built ten ships, it will no longer build small ships. After a shipping line has built twenty ships, it will only build very large ships.

I thought this might improve the civilian lag situation, unfortunately while it might have somewhat it hasn't had a major impact in my experience. 95% of the calculation time on 5 day ticks is still caused entirely by civilian shipping lines (removing them makes the game run 20x faster)
They still have hundreds of ships

I feel like adding more sizes above "very large" (ingame called huge I believe) would help address this. My shipping lines frequently have hundreds of the largest class of ship.
Adding a massive, gargantuan, goliath etc class above huge and adding the same restrictions on count of smaller ships as above would I hope go a long way to fixing this.

Sorry to be negative, amazing game - thanks for continuing to share and improve it.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestion: Mothball Fleet
« Last post by alex_brunius on Yesterday at 02:56:03 AM »
Quote from: Louella on September 09, 2024, 03:38:35 PM
My preference would be a "mothball" facility, similar to a maintenance facility - it costs wealth and population to run, and can only support X tonnage of ships.
Mothballed ships require no crew, no officers, and won't explode whilst in storage.

Sounds like adding a new installation would just add extra complexity. Why not just have them use regular maintenance facilities at for example say a 10% tonnage impact (So a mothballed 25000 ton ship requires 2500 ton maintenance capacity). That way it scales with better technology and there is automatically a MSP upkeep cost (10% of full) as well.
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C# Suggestions / Re: Suggestion: Mothball Fleet
« Last post by shatterstar on September 09, 2024, 10:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Louella on September 09, 2024, 03:38:35 PM

My preference would be a "mothball" facility, similar to a maintenance facility - it costs wealth and population to run, and can only support X tonnage of ships.
Mothballed ships require no crew, no officers, and won't explode whilst in storage.
Getting the ship out of mothballs though...
it starts at 0% readiness (just like an early exit from overhaul) and takes time to run up to 100% readiness (affected by captain/chief engineer's skills).
And it starts with the lowest crew grade (crewed by ageing reservists, and people who aren't familiar with old technology).
During the time it takes to run up to 100% readiness, it suffers wear and maintenance issues similar to ships undergoing fleet drills (stress of reactivating machinery from cold etc).

So whilst it was mothballed, the ship wasn't costing you anything, but in the say 100 days to run up to full working order, it's going to consume a lot more MSP, and be in a fairly worn state (possibly requiring immediate overhaul) by the time it is ready for service, and would consume even more MSP to train the crew up to a higher standard.

So you have the investment in minerals & population to build mothball facilities, the wealth cost to operate them, which are all things that you could be using on other more productive planetary installations.
And bringing ships out of mothball is expensive, and you end up with a worn ship with a relatively untrained crew, that needs further overhaul and training, before it equals a ship of the same class that wasn't put into mothballs and remained active.
Which I think counters "build to mothballs" to at least some extent.

I like the thinking on this, and yeah my idea was for un-mothballing ships to be at least this onerous (and possibly even more so if you count the idea of them taking armo(u)r damage during mothball). Unfortunately I still think Steve won't go for it as the added cost of the building is kind of a one time thing and if you want to dump entire reserve fleets in there you could just build more.
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