Author Topic: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« on: July 23, 2022, 08:30:35 AM »
Hello all,

After reading through a ton of different designs on here I am trying my hand at designing my own fleet for my current game.   I am fairly new so I figured I would show my current designs and my current philosophy to you all to get some feedback.   For context my game has been going on for a while now and I haven't seen any external threats to my empire.   I have expanded to 6 different star systems averaging around 3 jumps away from Sol (furthest out being 6 jumps).   most of these systems are pretty small with my largest industrial base by far being in Sol so as a result most of my ships are geared to rebuff a threat and scoot home.   I do not have any repair or resupply facilities outside Sol yet but I am working on getting one at the further out colony along with a fuel depot.   I have a jump capable warship that allows me to attack out if needed (I have a NPR to my "north" but so far I am very ahead of him in tech I think, his ships are very slow and his ships I have shot at are outclassed by mine, he is however much bigger than me so I don't want to start anything).   I have seen some of the remnant systems and have taken pot shots at their ships but I have really only been successful just completely overwhelming them with long range ASMs and even then only if there is very few of them defending a location. 

Without further adue here is my current ship line up:
The Revetment is the core of my current feet and all other warships will operate with at least one at all times.   It is my AMM DD and its primary role to protect my smaller ships to allow them to close in and deal the real damage.   My current vision was one of these ships with about 3 other FF or FFGs that I have below to patrol my colones and the more contested jump points on rotation along with combining them into a bigger force to pressure systems outside my jump gate network.   One weakness I already know of is the lack of any shielding in case any missiles leak through which is something I plan to address in a later revision of the class likely removing either one of the Gauss turrets or one of the sensors. 
 
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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       326 Crew       2,873.9 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 127      Sensors 90/0/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 34.45
Maint Life 2.01 Years     MSP 6,259    AFR 900%    IFR 12.5%    1YR 2,057    5YR 30,859    Max Repair 525.00 MSP
Magazine 325   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1.875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100.0    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,467,000 Litres    Range 87.1 billion km (144 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (5x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (5)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EGIS AMM MFC R5Mkm (1)     Range 57.4m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R5Mkm  (325)    Speed: 52,400 km/s    End: 1.6m     Range: 5.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.0000    TH: 506/303/151

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The London Class has been my workhorse for a while now and is the ship I have in the largest quantity.   Its equipped with super long range ASM to destroy enemy ships well before they can return fire (they were originally designed to operate independently which was why I choose such a long range to try and stave off return fire.  ) My fleet is all equipped with Gauss cannons as PD weapons to allow for the squadrons to cover each other if they ever get jumped bu fighters or missiles.   These ships have been able to breakthrough the PD of the precursor ships in mass (9 working in tandem on the shame ship).   I seem them more as a raiding force with my Revetments, either sneaking through hostile jump points and targeting enemy shipping or operating on mass with the Revetment to pressure more remote fleets. 
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London class Missile Frigate      10,000 tons       185 Crew       1,840.7 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 85      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 35.67
Maint Life 1.53 Years     MSP 2,380    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,158    5YR 17,373    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Magazine 620   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 740,000 Litres    Range 62.3 billion km (103 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (10)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK1 ASM S6 R100M (100)    Speed: 30,367 km/s    End: 54.9m     Range: 100m km    WH: 9    Size: 5.9934    TH: 253/151/75

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Lastly the Falchion Class was pseudo test ship to try and save money on missiles by using multiple laser batteries to destroy enemy ships.   Its my first ship equipped with a shield as I figure they will be under bombardment longer then the other ships would as they close into laser range so the extra shock defense and protection would be helpful.   The plan here would be they advance with Revetments into laser range to attack with their Spinal and fixed laser batteries while the Revetments AMM and the FFs own CIWS shoot down the literal hurricane of incoming missiles.   of note these haven't been tested in this role so my plan is all theoretical at this point so for all I know they would be burned out hulks before they got anywhere close. 
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Falchion FLTII class Frigate      10,000 tons       252 Crew       1,972.8 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 1,110
7000 km/s      Armour 4-41       Shields 37-426       HTK 88      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 43.67
Maint Life 1.56 Years     MSP 2,588    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,220    5YR 18,295    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 946,000 Litres    Range 79.6 billion km (131 days at full power)
Delange Defence Industries Naval Grade Shield(D) SS37 R26 W650 (1)     Recharge Time 426 seconds (0.1 per second)

Kratos Defense 25.00cm SFUV Naval Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 16-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 40       
Kratos Defense 20cm FUV Naval Laser (3)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 25       
Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Kratos Defence "Nova" FL BFC MR320km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 320,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
CERN International TFR PO3 (4)     Total Power Output 12    Exp 5%

Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 58800     Range 197.8m km    Resolution 300

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Here is the ASM that my London's use note my original intention was to engage around 80m km so the extra range allows me to defeat enemy ESM
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Missile Size: 5.9934 MSP  (14.98350 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 30,367 km/s     Fuel: 1,116     Flight Time: 55 minutes     Range: 100.05m km
Cost Per Missile: 8.651776     Development Cost: 865
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 759.2%   3k km/s 253.1%   5k km/s 151.8%   10k km/s 75.9%

And here are the Revetments AMM.   I know they are not exactly top tier, I am trying to press up my missile agility tech to get them more on par with the precursor missiles but that will take a little time. 
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Missile Size: 1.0000 MSP  (2.50000 Tons)     Warhead: 1    Radiation Damage: 1    Manoeuvre Rating: 29
Speed: 52,400 km/s     Fuel: 210     Flight Time: 97 seconds     Range: 5,082,800 km
Cost Per Missile: 1.930354     Development Cost: 193
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1519.6%   3k km/s 506.5%   5k km/s 303.9%   10k km/s 152.0%

Any feedback is super appreciated as I said I am pretty new to the game and haven't encountered some of the terrifying enemies some of these other people have.   I am planning on building a light carrier (30kt) to replace the Revetment with my FFGs but I am struggling hard with the Hangar capacity (5k vs 10k) so tips there are also appreciated. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 08:32:27 AM by Xanithas »
 
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Offline Neophyte

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2022, 01:24:57 PM »
Just a quick note because I need to run but at first glance I'd really try to get your gauss BFCs improved.  You only have a little over a 1/3 chance to hit a missile, a longer ranged BFC wouldn't be much more space and would really improve your to-hit chances at 10k. With 80 shots that might mean the difference between getting "leakers" or not.  This really helps when attacking AMM spammers.

I'd also add an ENG station to at least the larger ships, you can probably find some room for it and it really helps if you need to deploy for longer times like you have designed for.  That's just me though, I haven't run the numbers on how well it works vs just having more engineering spaces.

Finally beam ships need to be as fast as is practical (whatever that means in your game), don't be afraid to design a beam ship that's faster than your fleet speed - you don't have to go that fast all the time!  If its doctrine is to go under the cover of fleet missile defense you could probably drop some of its own gauss to make room.  As a general note, specialized ships work better in this game, but many of us (including me) prefer more multifunctional ships if only for RP reasons.

I'm sure others will have better advice for you soon!
 
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Offline lumporr

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2022, 02:21:12 PM »
Take everything I say with a grain of salt (as I am pretty inexperienced), but I'll give it a shot!

Most everything looks pretty good, though I think with beam vessels (as stated by Neophyte), you'll want as much engine as you can.  I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there. 

To be clear, I've never used missiles before, but I'm preparing to for the first time in a campaign I'm drawing up, and I have a few questions about your designs.  For AMMs, would you not want as many tubes as possible while maintaining high rate of fire? Considering potential misses, five AMM tubes strikes me as a little inadequate for your jump destroyer unless it's escorted or grouped with others, compared to what I'd usually have in a gauss equivalent.  Also, considering what I've seen from NPRs, isn't 5m missile range on an AMM a little far? I generally have to close to near beam range for the AMM spam to start rolling out.  But again, this is me theorizing - compared to me, you're the expert there. 

I think the thing that stands out the most is the amount of shielding on your shielded frigate.  In my experience, 37 shields won't be stopping much of anything for more than a handful of 5-second increments in close combat, so that hull space might be better used elsewhere until you can dedicate more research to better shields.

Anyway, seems great though! I'm a sucker for clean sizing/speeds.  Gotta love those zeroes.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2022, 03:21:47 PM »
Thanks all for the feedback so far, to address some questions posed / ask some questions of my own:

Quote
I'd really try to get your gauss BFCs improved.   You only have a little over a 1/3 chance to hit a missile, a longer ranged BFC wouldn't be much more space and would really improve your to-hit chances at 10k.  With 80 shots that might mean the difference between getting "leakers" or not.   This really helps when attacking AMM spammers.
When you say improve what do you mean? Are you saying my tech level is too low or that my BFC range is too short? I know there is a bonus to chance to hit the longer a missile is tracked but I assumed that was on a sensor not a BFC.  If its extend the range I can do that all day long

Quote
add an ENG station to at least the larger ships
hehe I seemed to have forgotten something. . .  good thing I haven't started this upgrade yet. . .

Quote
I think with beam vessels (as stated by Neophyte), you'll want as much engine as you can.   I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there
What speed do you think is appropriate? I could throw away some of the Guass PD turrets or build a lighter special one to free up the space as was recommended but so far I haven't seen anything I am not faster than (I know its possible I just haven't encountered a specific threat yet)

Quote
For AMMs, would you not want as many tubes as possible while maintaining high rate of fire? Considering potential misses, five AMM tubes strikes me as a little inadequate for your jump destroyer unless it's escorted or grouped with others, compared to what I'd usually have in a gauss equivalent.   Also, considering what I've seen from NPRs, isn't 5m missile range on an AMM a little far?
To address both here, I have tended to have these ships operate in groups of 3 (3 Revetments and 9 FF / FFGs) because I have seen the same issue you mentioned of not having enough missiles to really make a sizeable impact, most of the time my AMM get one or 2 of the inbound missiles and my PD gets the rest.  I suppose making a specialized FF variant with AMM might not be a bad idea and use the Revetment more as a sensor and jump ship.  My logic was since im still stabilizing the mining economy having a ship that needs missiles to perform its primary duty seemed kinda counter productive but I do agree the missiles they fire are just ok.  The range I choose was sorta arbitrary, It was the range my sensor indicated it could see a size 6 missile (which is a real threat as opposed to the AMM swarm that happens most of the time) so I built a missile to reach out and hit that.  I get 2 shots on inbound missiles most of the time if they are bigger in size so it seems to be effective.

Quote
I think the thing that stands out the most is the amount of shielding on your shielded frigate.   In my experience, 37 shields won't be stopping much of anything for more than a handful of 5-second increments in close combat, so that hull space might be better used elsewhere until you can dedicate more research to better shields. 
I was very interested in hearing feedback on the shield, I have never used them before and it was sorta confusing reading about them.  Is it the fact that I have one generator or that the generator I have is trash that's the problem? Would you recommend multiple smaller generators to fill the same weight or the big one I went for.  I checked and it seems that you get far more layers per weight with the bigger one but I could be missing some underlying benefit that the redundant system provides that's worth losing the layers.
 

Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2022, 03:54:41 PM »
Also as mentioned earlier I was designing a CVL, so I figured I would throw it in here for feedback.

As I mentioned above the intention for the Agincourt was to replace the Revetment for FFG based fleets as the AMM didn't really help much and the only thing I needed them for was the jump drive.  Enter the Agincourt a carrier that is designed to take 5 London FFGs as escort and project some power into enemy space.  The ship is only equipped with a self defense load as I intend to stand off with the Londons as the formations primary striking capability but its embarked craft load out might make it more capable in mixed unit fleets moving forward.  I included some boarding shuttles more as a nice to have as I have encountered a few stricken ships that I feel I could have boarded but the quantity of troops they bring (200 weight) might not be enough to actually capture anything.  Additionally I feel my magazine space might be a little low, the fighter bombers only have 4 reloads a piece but I also don't know if they are even worth using in the first place so I would be interested to hear your thoughts. 
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Agincourt class Light Carrier      30,000 tons       593 Crew       5,174.3 BP       TCS 600    TH 4,200    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 5-50      Armour 3-86       Shields 0-0       HTK 186      Sensors 90/0/0/0      DCR 6      PPV 29.45
Maint Life 2.01 Years     MSP 16,646    AFR 1200%    IFR 16.7%    1YR 5,510    5YR 82,649    Max Repair 1050.00 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 400   
Commander    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 30k SS5 W3.6kt     Max Ship Size 30000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 5

Organista Aeromarine IFD HS100 P1.05  EP2100.00 (2)    Power 4200.0    Fuel Use 14.29%    Signature 2100.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 2,007,000 Litres    Range 84.3 billion km (139 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (5x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (64)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

Strike Group
2x Breacher Assault Shuttle   Speed: 20088 km/s    Size: 4.99
5x Conqueror Fighter   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99
4x Demolisher Fighter-bomber   Speed: 15007 km/s    Size: 9.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a b for auto-assignment purposes

The breacher is a simple concept, rush in while being tough enough to survive a stricken ships remaining PD and land a boarding party to try our luck.  I feel I might have too few of them to actually seize a ship but I am not sure 100% of the mechanics of a boarding.
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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      250 tons       9 Crew       66.7 BP       TCS 5    TH 100    EM 0
20088 km/s      Armour 3-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.55 Years     MSP 15    AFR 50%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 7    5YR 107    Max Repair 50.15 MSP
Troop Capacity 100 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1.2 days    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin FIFD HS1.7 P2.95 EP100.30 (1)    Power 100.3    Fuel Use 1450.08%    Signature 100.30    Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range 0.25 billion km (3 hours at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Troop Transport for auto-assignment purposes

The Conqueror is a armored fighter I would intend to send in to try and distract enemy PD away from my missiles / fighter bombers while also harassing damaged or fleeing ships.  I don't feel the 10cm rail gun is going to be a ship killer by any stretch but I do feel this ship would survive a wallop and keep shooting possibly scoring critical s through the damage in the armor caused by the missile and fighter bombers strikes. 
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Conqueror class Fighter      500 tons       20 Crew       176.6 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15007 km/s      Armour 6-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3
Maint Life 0.38 Years     MSP 10    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 26    5YR 396    Max Repair 75.00 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150.0    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150.00    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 21,000 Litres    Range 0.61 billion km (11 hours at full power)

ThyssenKrupp 10cm Fighter Grade Railgun RoF5 LV50k S4 C4 (1x4)    Range 50,000km     TS: 15,007 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 50,000 km    ROF 5       
ThyssenKrupp Railgun FBFC MR76k TS20k (SW) (1)     Max Range: 76,800 km   TS: 15,000 km/s     87 74 61 48 35 22 9 0 0 0
CERN International MCFR PO3 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

Last is the Demolisher which I feel might be less useful or better off being swapped with Conquerors.  The missiles I provided it could pass through the PD of a enemy formation due to the speed and the fact that the Fighters should be screening it but I feel I either need a frakk load of smaller warheads or fewer much larger ones to really give them the bang for the buck I am looking for.  I went with the one I went with to try and achieve some sort of large striking capability so even if some are intercepted I can still get some worthwhile damage in.
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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber      500 tons       9 Crew       141.3 BP       TCS 10    TH 150    EM 0
15007 km/s      Armour 6-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3.6
Maint Life 0.76 Years     MSP 15    AFR 100%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 20    5YR 295    Max Repair 75.00 MSP
Magazine 24   
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 1 days    Morale Check Required   

Rolls-Royce FIFD HS2.5 P3  EP150.00 (1)    Power 150.0    Fuel Use 1247.08%    Signature 150.00    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 29,000 Litres    Range 0.84 billion km (15 hours at full power)

BAE Systems Missile Rack S6 (4)     Missile Size: 6.00    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
BAE Harpoon FMFC R80Mkm (1)     Range 84.3m km    Resolution 100
BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (4)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a e for auto-assignment purposes

Finally this is the missile I have equipped them with.  Much shorter range then my fleets SM and honestly they might be a little too long still.  I am still working out the average range of PD and AMM so this might be a ludicrously long range still and I just don't know it.
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Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 40,567 km/s     Fuel: 1,376     Flight Time: 12 minutes     Range: 30.03m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.070288     Development Cost: 1,007
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1014.2%   3k km/s 338.1%   5k km/s 202.8%   10k km/s 101.4%

Again troughs are appreciated.  I will probably post some of my others ideas here for feedback, I am working on a beam CL so I should have that to throw in here soon along with some other auxiliaries for longer distance engagements I am planning
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2022, 04:23:33 PM »
There is quite a lot here, so I will try to stick to the highlights, or lowlights as it may be.

General Comment: I don't want to go too in-depth about this, since discovery is a big part of the game, but I will say that it seems you don't have a lot of experience with jump point-based warfare in Aurora. Usually jump point defenses are heavy or nonexistent at least when facing the NPRs, so despite the hopes and dreams of many players it is usually not possible to "sneak through" a JP with a small raiding force. The short implication of this is that for a strong, successful fleet you want to design around jump point assault and defense first and foremost. Of course there are many exceptions including some of the spoiler race encounters, but this is a general thing you want to keep in mind for keeping your fleet designs well-grounded.

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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer
Fuel Capacity 1,467,000 Litres    Range 87.1 billion km (144 days at full power)

This amount of range is probably excessive by a factor of 2 or 3, depending on the galaxy map topography. It is better to support a fleet with tankers as needed to achieve long operational ranges, so that the combat ships can dedicate more space to combat systems.

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Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR16km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 16,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

The max range on your BFC is too low. Point defense fire takes place at 10,000 km, so with a range of 16,000 km you will have only 37.5% accuracy factor from range - in addition to other accuracy loss from fast missile speeds and reduced size of the Gauss cannons. I would recommend keeping a 1x size multiplier which at this tech level should give 80,000 km range and thus 87.5% accuracy factor from range under point defense conditions.

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Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (5)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EGIS AMM MFC R5Mkm (1)     Range 57.4m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R5Mkm  (325)    Speed: 52,400 km/s    End: 1.6m     Range: 5.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.0000    TH: 506/303/151

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

You're going to have some problems here:
  • Only five AMM launchers will not be very useful against a large wave of enemy missiles.
  • 5m km range is excessive for AMMs. It can make sense for dual-purpose missiles but I don't think that's the use case here.
  • Even if 5m km range makes sense, you won't get it because your RES-1 active sensor has only 318k km range. Active sensors need to match or exceed fire control ranges.
  • The problem with such long range is you need an excessively large MFC (and active sensor, unless using scouts to extend your sensor envelope) which is a waste of tonnage. Use shorter AMM range and more launchers instead.
  • Perhaps because of the long range, the actual missile is very slow. At the approximate tech levels you have, AMM speed should easily exceed 70,000 km/s and a good AMM design can probably break 80k. I can get a 5m km range AMM with a speed in this range at your approximate tech level very easily, so the actual design has some flaw as well. Make sure you have a very high engine power multiplier tech level (3.0x max should be easy at this tech level) as it is critical for good missile designs.

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My fleet is all equipped with Gauss cannons as PD weapons to allow for the squadrons to cover each other if they ever get jumped bu fighters or missiles.

This is an excellent practice.

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London class Missile Frigate
Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (10)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK1 ASM S6 R100M (100)    Speed: 30,367 km/s    End: 54.9m     Range: 100m km    WH: 9    Size: 5.9934    TH: 253/151/75

I would prefer to see a lot more launchers per ship, especially since you seem to be using reduced-size launchers. Size-6 launchers at 30% size take up 90 tons each, so you can easily put 20 of them (1,800 tons) on a 10k ton warship, which will give you the salvo sizes to compete against large enemy fleets without being as cheesy as box launcher spam. The key to beating point defense is volley size, not how many missiles you bring to the fight but rather how many missiles you can land on the target in one increment is what matters.

The MFC range is excessive by a lot, which means it is 9x larger than necessary and should probably be reduced in size so you can fit more missiles instead.

The actual missiles again are too slow, 40,000 km/s is easily exceeded at this tech level. As before I suspect design flaws are the culprit, not range. For ASMs, keep in mind that pure %chance to hit is not the only design criteria, a faster missile will be better against the enemy point defense even if the hit chance per missile is not quite as high.

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Falchion FLTII class Frigate
7000 km/s

Contrary to prevailing opinion, I think the speed is fine. A missile-first fleet should have beam ships to escort the missile ships and supplement in situations where missiles are not ideal - especially when trying to force a jump point, heavy beam firepower is essential to secure a foothold as missile do not hit as hard as beams per ton/HS. As such, speed is not so critical given the class's role in a fleet - but if you were playing a fleet based around beam weapons then indeed more speed would be preferable.

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Armour 4-41       Shields 37-426
Delange Defence Industries Naval Grade Shield(D) SS37 R26 W650 (1)     Recharge Time 426 seconds (0.1 per second)

I would recommend to use the largest shield generator size you can. Shield size scales with strength as Size^(3/2) so larger generators are much more efficient. As it is, this shield is borderline as it provides just under one armor layer's worth of protection.

I will say that the armor is rather thin for a ship of this tech level, you should be able to have at least 6-8 layers without much trouble. For the missile ships it is not so important, missile combat is usually about not being hit at all in the first place, but a beam ship will get shot at so it needs the protection. Alternatively, use more shields.

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Kratos Defense 25.00cm SFUV Naval Laser (1)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 16-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 40       
Kratos Defense 20cm FUV Naval Laser (3)    Range 320,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-2     RM 50,000 km    ROF 25       

Needs more guns.

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Any feedback is super appreciated as I said I am pretty new to the game and haven't encountered some of the terrifying enemies some of these other people have.   I am planning on building a light carrier (30kt) to replace the Revetment with my FFGs but I am struggling hard with the Hangar capacity (5k vs 10k) so tips there are also appreciated.

Design the fighter wing first, then figure out what kind of carrier you need to deploy it. Note that while 500-ton fighters are the most efficient per-ton, in most cases 250 or 300-ton fighters or similar are equally as useful and can have certain advantages, particularly in forcing the enemy to split fire with limited fire controls (smaller fighters = more targets per X tons). For the carrier design, don't get too married to round numbers for the hangar space - design the strike squadron and then a carrier to carry one, two, or more of those squadrons (plus magazines for reloading, extra fuel, and so on). You might also consider having a small complement of fighter-sized scouts as these are often very effective units.

Usually for carriers you can sacrifice the defenses somewhat since they should not get within range of the enemy weapons, which can help you find space for other essentials.


I think the general wisdom is 50% hull space as engines, but I could be mistaken there. 

Usually anywhere in the range of 30% to 40% engine mass fraction is acceptable (this is roughly the range the NPRs use), or a bit lower if you want to use EP multipliers and drink a lot more fuel. ;-)  Some players who only care about min/max will use 50% engine fractions with a high boost multiplier, 20 layers of armor, and then whatever weapon they think is most powerful to build functionally invincible ships that can outrun any NPR ship, tank any amount of damage, and defeat NPR fleets without losses. Personally, I find this to be terribly boring as it lacks roleplay interest and to be frank the NPRs are so uncompetitive (unless they have a massive tech advantage) that exploiting them is wholly unnecessary.


Also as mentioned earlier I was designing a CVL, so I figured I would throw it in here for feedback.

Additionally I feel my magazine space might be a little low, the fighter bombers only have 4 reloads a piece but I also don't know if they are even worth using in the first place so I would be interested to hear your thoughts. 

Usually 4 reloads for fighters is fine, if you need more you should be replenishing from auxiliary ships between battles.


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Breacher class Assault Shuttle      250 tons
Troop Capacity 100 tons

It is too small, unless you have maxed-out boarding troops then only 100 tons is not enough to survive the battle.

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The Conqueror is a armored fighter I would intend to send in to try and distract enemy PD away from my missiles / fighter bombers while also harassing damaged or fleeing ships.

It is an interesting concept, but I don't think it would be very useful in that role. However, railgun fighters are quite strong on their own as Steve has shown in his BSG campaign, so the design is probably fine in practice - it just might not work the way you think it will. Do note that railgun fighters need to be deployed en masse to be effective.

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Demolisher class Fighter-bomber
BAE Systems Missile Rack S6 (4)     Missile Size: 6.00    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
BAE Harpoon FMFC R80Mkm (1)     Range 84.3m km    Resolution 100
BAE Harpoon ASM R30Mkm (4)    Speed: 40,567 km/s    End: 12.3m     Range: 30m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 338/202/101

Missiles are too slow, and you should be able to fit more than four launchers on a 500-ton fighter. I usually use size-4 missiles on my fighter-bombers, and I put 4x launchers on a 250-ton frame, so you should be able to put 5 or 6 size-6 box launchers on this. Remember, the key to missile warfare is overwhelming volley fire - as many birds in the air at once as possible.

Also as before check that your missile, MFC, and sensor ranges all match up (currently they do not).

Hope some of this is helpful and/or informative to yourself and others.
 
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Offline kilo

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2022, 05:05:39 AM »
Okay, I will give it a try as well.

1. As most of the others have said, you should alter your anti-missile BFC. You invested like 3600 tons + in anti-missile guns. You should consider putting another 100 tons into BFC range to make sure they hit something.

2. I firmly believe that your sensor package is complete overkill:

2.a Revetment class:

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(L) (1)     GPS 84000     Range 236.5m km    Resolution 300
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 14000     Range 115.9m km    Resolution 100
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

It carries two very similar long range sensors. I would personally kill one of them off. Probably the Resolution 300 and add some resolution 5 or 10 instead to keep small craft at distance. Bringing passive sensors is generally a good idea, as you can use them to detect enemy vessels without announcing your presence. Having both types can be extremely useful, as you will detect sensor and engine capabilities and you can tell possible civilian and military vessels apart. EM sensors should be 7HS or larger, as these are be able to detect active enemy sensors before you fly into their coverage and identify enemy command ships.

The AI loves to shoot ships with sensors first. This is why I would make the very much sensor only and add obscene amounts of shields and armor. You would only need one or two ships with such a package in your fleet, but they are oftentimes targeted first, so make sure they are durable. On top of that it saves tonnage not to equip every ship with large sensors.

2b. London class:

This ship has an interesting set of sensors and fire controls as well. The anti-missile sensor is useful, as you are bringing beam PD weapons, the missile fire control and long range sensor combination makes little sense though. You chose resolution 20 or 1000 ton sensor and a resolution 300 fire control designed to fight ships of 15000 tons. This loses you the advantage of both systems, as you cannot use the maximum range of the missiles and fire control, while you can hardly target the smaller ships your sensors might detect. A size 20 vessel could only be fired upon if it came to 0.27m km. That is beam range.
 
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SM MFC R300Mkm (2)     Range 293.7m km    Resolution 300

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS MDS (1)     GPS 3     Range 3.5m km    MCR 317.9k km    Resolution 1
Raytheon SSDS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 2240     Range 60.6m km    Resolution 20

I would definitely change the MFC and I would only keep the sensors if you want to be able to use these ships solo.

2c. Falchion class:

I bet that this ship will never be used alone. This is why I would remove all current sensors and replace them with a resolution 1 sensor with a range that is greater than the weapons range but at most 1.5 m km, which is the maximum beam weapon range in the game.

3. Electronic warfare:

Add both types of electronic warfare equipment to ships of these sizes. You need 1 ECM per ship and 1 ECCM per fire control system. Especially beam weapons are susceptible, as an ECM advantage reduces the other side's fire control range and chance to hit. Missile fire controls lose only range, but chance to hit is determined by the missiles electronic warfare capabilities. The effect is additive, not multiplicative, and 10% per level of tech difference. It can reduce the hit chance to negative numbers and prevent you completely from firing.

 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2022, 01:17:09 PM »
Hello and thank you all for the awesome feedback.   I have started to change my ships based on some of the observations you all have made and will post the changed designs here for further review.   I have some questions based on some of the critiques I received.   

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    Only five AMM launchers will not be very useful against a large wave of enemy missiles. 
    5m km range is excessive for AMMs.   It can make sense for dual-purpose missiles but I don't think that's the use case here. 
    Even if 5m km range makes sense, you won't get it because your RES-1 active sensor has only 318k km range.   Active sensors need to match or exceed fire control ranges. 
    The problem with such long range is you need an excessively large MFC (and active sensor, unless using scouts to extend your sensor envelope) which is a waste of tonnage.   Use shorter AMM range and more launchers instead. 
    Perhaps because of the long range, the actual missile is very slow.   At the approximate tech levels you have, AMM speed should easily exceed 70,000 km/s and a good AMM design can probably break 80k.   I can get a 5m km range AMM with a speed in this range at your approximate tech level very easily, so the actual design has some flaw as well.   Make sure you have a very high engine power multiplier tech level (3.  0x max should be easy at this tech level) as it is critical for good missile designs. 

Given the size of the ship I have how many missile launchers you all recommend and how many MFC to support them.   I am confused by the doctrinal statements (shoot 3 per missile ect.  ) but it seems it would shoot a all of the missile launchers in that MFC control 3 times per missile inbound which would do nothing but totally empty my magazine in the first volley or does it shoot 3 individual missiles per missile until it runs out of launchers and resets until one is reloaded? As for the AMM specifically what is your target range.   5M was my target to give me more shots per missile but if that's too long what should I target instead.   I have modified the design around a 1M range missile and upped the launchers to 10 but I feel I need a MFC to spread their fire out. 

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It carries two very similar long range sensors.   I would personally kill one of them off.   Probably the Resolution 300 and add some resolution 5 or 10 instead to keep small craft at distance.   Bringing passive sensors is generally a good idea, as you can use them to detect enemy vessels without announcing your presence.   Having both types can be extremely useful, as you will detect sensor and engine capabilities and you can tell possible civilian and military vessels apart.   EM sensors should be 7HS or larger, as these are be able to detect active enemy sensors before you fly into their coverage and identify enemy command ships. 

I made the adjustments toward a more fighter sized target but im curious what is your standard target size for a ship sensor and how far do you look? the average ship I see is 10K so I am searching there now but perhaps I am looking too far and I am throwing weight away for no declarable gain.   I hear you on the sensor only command ships but as of right now I cant afford such a ship with the exception of the carrier perhaps.   I am still trying to toll up some new auxiliaries to even support this fleet so a sensor only command ship might be a future plan as I flesh out my doctrine.   Speaking of.  .  . 

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I don't want to go too in-depth about this, since discovery is a big part of the game, but I will say that it seems you don't have a lot of experience with jump point-based warfare in Aurora.   Usually jump point defenses are heavy or nonexistent at least when facing the NPRs, so despite the hopes and dreams of many players it is usually not possible to "sneak through" a JP with a small raiding force.   The short implication of this is that for a strong, successful fleet you want to design around jump point assault and defense first and foremost.   Of course there are many exceptions including some of the spoiler race encounters, but this is a general thing you want to keep in mind for keeping your fleet designs well-grounded. 

You are correct that I have 0 experience with jump point based warfare, every "military" expedition has been a sortie into space that has some precursor ships which I hunt down and shoot, but other then that jump points are completely unguarded in my experience.   I have considered putting stations around some of mine but the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.   I can see how having a armored hammer to smash through a jump point would be critical but do you feel I am painting myself into a corner with my current fleet design if I encounter such a defense?

Last question, Seeing as I just revised the design for my Jump DD, how do you handle ship template changes.   I haven't built any of the Revetment FLT 2s yet so that wasn't a issue, just unlock and re-design but the London has about 9 ships in class and if I overhaul them I would need to refit them all.   In your experience is there value in refitting older models into newer ones or am I better off starting over.   At what point is the refit not worth it and a new ship is the answer? 

I took the feedback I received and redesigned the Revetment, now with 10 missile tubes and a 1M target bracket (slightly overshot with my MFC and ASS to allow for ECM issues to still reach my 1M target range).   The power plant didn't need to be changed I just stripped some fuel off to reclaim some weight and removed a guass turret.   I changed the gauss BFC to max out the normal hull size range to get that tracking time bonus.   The magazine has been expanded to account for the new launchers and the ship now has 41 salvos.   I redesigned the ships missile as well to target the new 1M range and increase its agility to reach a theoretical kill% of 40% on a 50km/s target which is the fastest thing I have seen (other than my  AMM that is).   I used some more passive sensors while keeping the ships large sensor suite to allow it to be a smaller task force command ship.   Knowing what I know now that smaller raiding parties are not practical I might use these more for colonial patrol and post assault operations once I have broken through a enemies defenses. 
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Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       364 Crew       3,023. 1 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 125      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 33. 56
Maint Life 2. 03 Years     MSP 6,271    AFR 900%    IFR 12. 5%    1YR 2,037    5YR 30,559    Max Repair 525. 00 MSP
Magazine 410   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1. 875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1. 05 EP1050. 00 (2)    Power 2100. 0    Fuel Use 20. 21%    Signature 1050. 00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 792,000 Litres    Range 47 billion km (77 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1. 5Mkm (1)     Range 18. 2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (410)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0. 2m     Range: 1. 1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1. 0000    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 187. 8m km    Resolution 200
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1. 5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17. 6m km    MCR 1. 6m km    Resolution 1
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54. 9m km    Resolution 5
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88. 7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

And this is the AMM I decided to go with
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Missile Size: 1.0000 MSP  (2.50000 Tons)     Warhead: 1    Radiation Damage: 1    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 80,400 km/s     Fuel: 45     Flight Time: 13.2 seconds     Range: 1,061,280 km
Cost Per Missile: 2.55025     Development Cost: 255
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 2010.0%   3k km/s 670.0%   5k km/s 402.0%   10k km/s 201.0%

As before tear it apart if I missed something or you feel I am moving in the wrong direction.   This has been very educational to apply to my other ships moving forward.   I plan to revisit the London next as the feedback there seemed more cut and dry then the beam FF so stay tuned.   
« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 02:52:28 PM by Xanithas »
 

Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2022, 03:15:30 PM »
Redesign for the London is completed, not a lot changed but I did have to think more on what I view this class doing moving forward.

I removed the huge MFC and targeted 70M as my range for engagements (naturally I moved the MFC out to about 90 to allow for error and loss due to ESM.  I choose to keep the sensors as I can see these operating in small hunter killer groups inside my own space where jump gates will allow them to move freely to destroy enemy scouts and to act as a second line of defense.  The gauss CIWS BFC was upgraded to the new one created for the Revetment.  The largest change was the removal of a layer of armor, a bit of fuel and magazine space to allow for the upgrade to 20 launchers for the ship (divided into 2 10 launcher groups).  These launchers now have 4 salvos which I am not sure is enough but I have way overshot with most other designs so I am probably around right   
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London FLTII class Missile Frigate      10,000 tons       201 Crew       1,918.6 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 3-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 93      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 53.67
Maint Life 1.77 Years     MSP 2,626    AFR 727%    IFR 10.1%    1YR 1,038    5YR 15,569    Max Repair 350.00 MSP
Magazine 520   
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400.0    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 510,000 Litres    Range 42.9 billion km (70 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi VLS S6-ULR (20)     Missile Size: 6.00    Rate of Fire 2450
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS SMFC R90Mkm (2)     Range 92m km    Resolution 200
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2b ASM S6 R70M (80)    Speed: 50,733 km/s    End: 23.3m     Range: 70.9m km    WH: 9    Size: 6.0000    TH: 236/142/71

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS ASS(S) (1)     GPS 36000     Range 187.8m km    Resolution 200
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

I also took a crack at designing a new long range ASM standard missile for the fleet based on the feedback provided and I actually got great results but reached a impasse.  My two schools of thought was, on the one hand, to target a 100% hit chance on something moving slightly faster then me (10,000 km/s) to ensure even if I encounter someone who has a tech advantage on me I have a chance to hit them, even if those missiles are slightly slower (the SM2 BLK2a).  On the other hand the other school of thought is cranking the speed up higher and target hitting something with a 100% hit chance moving the same speed as me (the SM2 BLK2b) to get the extra speed and target a technological equivalent.  I theorize that in a engagement with a technological inferor foe the BLK2b would perform better thanks to the increased speed but I am not 100% sure on how hit chance works (I assume its a function of agility and size of the warhead) but I wouldn't have a guaranteed hit on something that outclasses me, even if just slightly which could negate the extra speed.   The results of my tinkering are below for your review.

Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2a ASM S6 R70M
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 25
Speed: 40,800 km/s     Fuel: 1,324     Flight Time: 29 minutes     Range: 70.36m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.1104     Development Cost: 1,011
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1020.0%   3k km/s 340.0%   5k km/s 204.0%   10k km/s 102.0%
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM2 BK2b ASM S6 R70M
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 6.0000 MSP  (15.00000 Tons)     Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuvre Rating: 14
Speed: 50,733 km/s     Fuel: 1,974     Flight Time: 23 minutes     Range: 70.89m km
Cost Per Missile: 10.2802     Development Cost: 1,028
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 710.3%   3k km/s 236.8%   5k km/s 142.1%   10k km/s 71.0%

As always please keep the feedback coming.  I will likely not get to the beam FF tonight as I have a early day tomorrow and its likely going to be the most radical redesign but when I finish it ill throw it on here.
 

Offline kilo

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2022, 04:57:38 PM »
It is hard to say which of the two missiles is actually better. It depends on the capabilities of the enemy vessel. One has a significantly higher chance to hit, while the other is harder to kill by enemy anti missile weapons. You should also consider that speed is a huge tactical advantage for missiles as well. The maximum firing distance at which you can guarantee an intercept is (missile speed - target speed)*endurance. If you fire at longer distances the enemy might turn around and the missile runs out of fuel before ever catching up.
Additionally, missiles without sensors cease to exist whenever the ship they originate from gets destroyed. Fast and long ranged missiles can negate the enemy the ability to strike back.

Let us play this trough for an engagement between two Londons with a different weapons layout:
The LondonA firing the BK2a would hit a LondonB that is within 47.25m km. The safest tactic would be to get to this distance, fire and burn away from the target. Your missiles would reach the enemy and you can increase separation and buy your weapons time.
A LondonB firing the BK2b on the other hand could engage at 60.3m km and start disengaging. Given that you kite well, the LondonA would never get into a firing position.
 
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Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2022, 09:03:24 PM »
When it comes to the sensor discussion I never put more than resolution 1 or 5 sensors on capital ships, that is all they need. Anything else is relegated to smaller sensor crafts. As ships can't choose to turn on sensors separately there is no point in larger resolution sensors in favour of sensor scouts.

Also, remember that active sensors is a dead giveaway of your position, so you should NEVER use them unless you want the enemy to know where you are, that is the second reason why you don't need large resolution sensors on capital ships. You also only need them to fire your weapons, making sure you paint the target with a sensor scout also make sure your missile ships can fire undetected wherever they are, this is why finding the enemy with either passive or active sensor scouts is key.

In my multi-faction games the hide and seek part of the game is the most fun part. The AI are not terribly adapt at it though and rely on your having your large active in your combat groups, which is not the smartest thing to do on a missile fleet.

If you want a navigational sensor then a very small resolution 1 works just fine with some small thermal and EM passives. Civilian ships use transponders anyway so you should always know where they are and you only need resolution 1 to find any object close enough to avoid them... never seen the use to actively be able to scan in the 100 resolution bandwidth for millions of kilometres for navigational reasons. My civilian ships usually get a very small res 1 and some thermal and EM sensors to just barely pick up anything close to them, just in case.

For a military ship the sensor suite will have a varied strength of res 1 and 5, while a dedicated small sensor ship might get something with a slightly higher resolution, but then that would be a specific sensor ship with lots of active and passive sensors, maybe 2-4kt size sensor frigate or something. Otherwise sensor crafts is 1kt or below in size.

Against the AI just don't be too smart about it or it will never be able to fire at you ever at all, no matter the differences in tech levels. The above mainly works against other human factions that can deal with the tactical depth, the AI really can't. As sensors are so expensive you need to be smart about it, from a logical perspective the active sensor should be sparingly used unless the craft it is attached to is small and expendable or at least easy to defend or escape with.

Just add a 250-1000t hangar to each and everyone of your warships and you can choose to fit them with a plethora of sensor scouts that meets all your demands, just keep resolution 1 as the main sensors of all capital warships. I use resolution 5 as well but that is not necessary against the AI that don't use fighters as far as I know. Dedicated escort ships get both resolution 1 and 5 as they are meant to engage not only missiles but also fighters.

A 200+ million resolution 100 or 300 active sensors on a warship really don't do anything... you want to detect enemy ships at billions of kilometres so you can assess their strength and either decide to attack or retreat. If you commit without knowing you can overwhelm the opponent (at least be somewhat certain of it) you are just taking enormous risks. Or able to probe there defences without exposing yourself.
 
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Offline Xanithas (OP)

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2022, 02:39:23 PM »
Hello all, and once again thank you all for the wonderful feedback.  I have made changed to the Revetment again removing the larger sensor and putting it on a smaller sensor probe the "Eagle Scout" which is launched from a boat bay and deployed to gather intel.  I kept the Fighter and Missile sensors however as they seemed practical given the ships function as a AMM platform but I am open to feedback if I missed the point.

The new Revetment, I didn't change the FLT since this model hasn't seen a production run yet.  I am still toying with the idea of refitting the previous Revetments into this one but I need to look at the cost and time savings to see if that makes sense.  They are at this point basically completely different ships and only their common name and foundation is the same.
Code: [Select]
Revetment FLTII class Jump Destroyer      15,000 tons       357 Crew       2,866.7 BP       TCS 300    TH 2,100    EM 0
7000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 4-54       Shields 0-0       HTK 124      Sensors 90/126/0/0      DCR 2      PPV 33.56
Maint Life 2.04 Years     MSP 6,258    AFR 900%    IFR 12.5%    1YR 2,006    5YR 30,097    Max Repair 525 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250 tons     Magazine 410   
Commander    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Flight Crew Berths 5    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley MJD 15K W1.875t     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Whetsell Engines Limited IFD HS50 P1.05 EP1050.00 (2)    Power 2100    Fuel Use 20.21%    Signature 1050    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 784,000 Litres    Range 46.6 billion km (76 days at full power)

Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (4x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Raytheon-Mitsubishi AEGIS AMM VLS (10)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Raytheon-Mitsubishi AMM MFC R1.5Mkm (1)     Range 18.2m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi SM1BK1 AMM R1Mkm  (410)    Speed: 80,400 km/s    End: 0.2m     Range: 1.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 670/402/201

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Fighter Detection Sensor (1)     GPS 900     Range 54.9m km    Resolution 5
Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Raytheon-Mitsubishi EMS HS7 (1)     Sensitivity 126     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  88.7m km
Tortorici-Cugini TS W250 HS5 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  75m km

ECCM-1 (1)         Strike Group
1x Eagle Scout   Speed: 20082 km/s    Size: 4.99

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

The Eagle scout as well, I decided for a speedy craft with no armor and pretty good range as I figure this will need to get around while its formation loiters in a safe area.  The only question I have is the MSP storage I provided it (Enough to complete a full repair) but that might not be necessary seeing as I view these as disposable (don't tell the crew. . . )
Code: [Select]
Eagle class Scout      250 tons       10 Crew       131.7 BP       TCS 5    TH 100    EM 0
20082 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 10.43 Years     MSP 82    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 1    5YR 21    Max Repair 72 MSP
Lieutenant    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 15 days    Morale Check Required   

Lockheed Martin FIFD HS1.7 P2.95 EP100.30 (1)    Power 100.3    Fuel Use 1450.08%    Signature 100.3    Explosion 29%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 1.49 billion km (20 hours at full power)

Raytheon Eagle Eye ASS R200 MR118Mkm (1)     GPS 14400     Range 118.8m km    Resolution 200

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a a for auto-assignment purposes

Finally the Flachion was overhauled given the feedback I was provided and is almost a new ship as well.  All of the previous sensors minus the Missile detection one (which will likely be standard on all my ships, my dual use navigation and missile detection I suppose) were removed as well as the fuel range shorted to support more weapons.  I got a tech up to Soft X-Ray and have the tech for better reactors so I essentially upgraded everything, adding 2 more Lasers to the ships previous (bringing the total to 5) and upgraded the Spinal to a Advanced Spinal mount.  The BFC was upgraded to take advantage of my new max range tech.  Finally I choose to remove the shield entirely seeing as I clearly don't have the tech to support a worth while shield yet so instead I layered on a lot more armor (7 layers now total).  As for speed I haven't tested them out yet but I feel that any increase in speed would not really help out the ship as much as it would start to pull away from its AMM DD and lose its support fire. 
Code: [Select]
Falchion FLTII class Frigate      10,000 tons       278 Crew       2,235.2 BP       TCS 200    TH 1,400    EM 0
7000 km/s      Armour 7-41       Shields 0-0       HTK 94      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 57.67
Maint Life 1.65 Years     MSP 2,999    AFR 800%    IFR 11.1%    1YR 1,298    5YR 19,474    Max Repair 350 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Morale Check Required   

Schorsch & Goley IFD HS35 P1 EP700.00 (2)    Power 1400    Fuel Use 21.38%    Signature 700    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 499,000 Litres    Range 42 billion km (69 days at full power)

Kratos Defense 30.0cm SSXR Naval Laser (1)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 24-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 35       
Kratos Defense 20cm SXR Naval Laser (5)    Range 384,000km     TS: 7,000 km/s     Power 10-3.5     RM 60,000 km    ROF 15       
Twin Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems Quad Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS RoF4 R10k 1HS Turret (3x16)    Range 10,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 10,000 km    ROF 5       
Kratos Defence "Nova" Fixed Naval Laser BFC MR384km TS7km/s (1)     Max Range: 384,000 km   TS: 7,000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
Towsley-Hyre Weapon Systems GCIWS BFC MR96km TS 20km/s (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0
General Electric MCFR PO8 (3)     Total Power Output 24.3    Exp 5%

Mohammad Electronic Systems AEGIS Missile Detection Sensor 1.5M (1)     GPS 54     Range 17.6m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-1 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a c for auto-assignment purposes

Thanks for all the help all, I am learning a lot here and plan to keep posting all the ships I design here to see if I can catch some feedback on them.  As always any thoughts on these ships are apprenticed. 
 

Offline Kiero

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2022, 03:47:13 PM »
Also, look at your ships AFR (Annual Failure Rate. The chance the ship will suffer a component failure over the course of one year).
It is a bit high for my taste.

Let's take Falchion as an example.
AFR 800%, so it will break 8 times in one year. Max repair 350MPS. If you're really unlucky 8x350 = 2800 MPS for one year, just to keep that damn thing afloat  ;)

Also in combat, it will drain MPS like crazy.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 03:53:32 PM by Kiero »
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2022, 04:08:09 PM »
Also, look at your ships AFR (Annual Failure Rate. The chance the ship will suffer a component failure over the course of one year).
It is a bit high for my taste.

Let's take Falchion as an example.
AFR 800%, so it will break 8 times in one year. Max repair 350MPS. If you're really unlucky 8x350 = 2800 MPS for one year, just to keep that damn thing afloat  ;)

Also in combat, it will drain MPS like crazy.

Great catch! @OP, a better general practice is to use Engineering Spaces to reduce failure rates until you get a desired maintenance life or AFR%, then add some MSP storage as insurance or to repair weapons that break when firing in combat.
 
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Offline StarshipCactus

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Re: Terran Hegonmy Fleet designs
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2022, 03:36:59 AM »
I don't have anything good to add, I just want to say that I personally like to have my ships match the size of my Jump ship. So your ships would all be 15K tons to match the Jump Drive. I also like to try get bigger squadrons if possible, but that is tech related.
 
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