Author Topic: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion  (Read 35402 times)

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Offline Icekiller

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2021, 02:51:16 PM »
Reading through this just now and I'm loving it so far, but one question.  What is a TAC Tank or a TACV? I'm looking at your ground forces org table and you've got 2 of those in pretty much every template, but I have no idea what that could even be!
 
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Offline Stormtrooper

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2021, 02:57:07 PM »
Why does this conference has to give me more and more flashbacks from primary school? Childish vigorous fights over some random bullsmeg very important matter, everyone hating group assignments (or each other in general), presentations and lectures that are boring yet the discussions afterwards are always a good excuse to start a fight, an impression that some just wanted to do their task cheaply, everyone having their own vision and struggle to compromise... To think one might have to serve on a ship designed by people with that mindset is terrifying to me.  :P

Also, particle beams. More particle beams. They're OP, so bring more of them, I tell you.

And one more thing: with Legion being full of "go CQB be close to battle this is time to glory not to hide behind the safety of particle beam range" I'm surprised to this day nobody has thought about trying boarding. Maybe it's because the Legion command only pretends to be so brave while every officer of theirs would smeg their pants at the mere thought of participating in a CQB firefight on board enemy ships?  ::)

Anyways, thanks for updates that bring some more roleplay into this.
 
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Offline Albacore

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2021, 03:17:41 PM »
Quote from: Icekiller link=topic=12445. msg152257#msg152257 date=1622231476
Reading through this just now and I'm loving it so far, but one question.   What is a TAC Tank or a TACV? I'm looking at your ground forces org table and you've got 2 of those in pretty much every template, but I have no idea what that could even be!

I believe those are command vehicles.
 

Offline Icekiller

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2021, 03:19:38 PM »
Quote from: Icekiller link=topic=12445. msg152257#msg152257 date=1622231476
Reading through this just now and I'm loving it so far, but one question.   What is a TAC Tank or a TACV? I'm looking at your ground forces org table and you've got 2 of those in pretty much every template, but I have no idea what that could even be!

I believe those are command vehicles.

What is the difference then between the CV and the TACV? Because they both exist in the mechanized formations.
 

Online nuclearslurpee (OP)

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2021, 03:33:19 PM »
Quote from: Icekiller link=topic=12445. msg152257#msg152257 date=1622231476
Reading through this just now and I'm loving it so far, but one question.   What is a TAC Tank or a TACV? I'm looking at your ground forces org table and you've got 2 of those in pretty much every template, but I have no idea what that could even be!

I believe those are command vehicles.

What is the difference then between the CV and the TACV? Because they both exist in the mechanized formations.

TACT/TACV are Tactical Air Control Tank/Vehicle, which are my terms for the FFD elements as "Forward Fire Direction" is frankly a terrible name for that component. CV is simply Command Vehicle and carried the HQ component.

As always I am glad to have another couple of readers aboard as well.  :)

Why does this conference has to give me more and more flashbacks from primary school? Childish vigorous fights over some random bullsmeg very important matter, everyone hating group assignments (or each other in general), presentations and lectures that are boring yet the discussions afterwards are always a good excuse to start a fight, an impression that some just wanted to do their task cheaply, everyone having their own vision and struggle to compromise... To think one might have to serve on a ship designed by people with that mindset is terrifying to me.  :P

Also, particle beams. More particle beams. They're OP, so bring more of them, I tell you.

And one more thing: with Legion being full of "go CQB be close to battle this is time to glory not to hide behind the safety of particle beam range" I'm surprised to this day nobody has thought about trying boarding. Maybe it's because the Legion command only pretends to be so brave while every officer of theirs would smeg their pants at the mere thought of participating in a CQB firefight on board enemy ships?  ::)

Anyways, thanks for updates that bring some more roleplay into this.

Just wait until you learn about the people who design military equipment in real life...  :o

I must note, one thing I've found to be good fun going through this process has been that my own intentions for the fleet, when filtered through the whims and personalities of the Lords Admiralty, end up only being partly fulfilled. When I first started working on the Naval Conference I drew up a set of plans for the next generation of fleet classes which included a 20,000-ton particle beam strike cruiser among other fun toys, however in working through the views of the Lords Admiral I realized this was simply not going to happen as there is not the political will to make it happen - yet! This is the fun in roleplaying for me as I write this AAR.

Boarding has been thought of by a few in the Legion high command and may yet come up in future sessions, however to call boarding combat an experimental tactic at this stage would be frankly generous, which is to say that its place is not in the discussions of broad doctrinal questions just yet. If it does come up later, then we shall see what the Lords Admiral think of the idea.  ;)
 

Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2021, 07:45:06 PM »
These updates continue to be top notch!

It is impressive that all the proposals put forward have some merit.  Some have more and some have less but all of them address something that the others don't.  I do feel that the capital ship doctrine is the least sound overall.  Its main failing is that it seeks to eliminate a capability, long range gunnery, rather than adding a new one.  Even so the arguments against it seem fairly weak.  LGAdm Argyron's argument that the heavy cruisers would amount to little more than a phallic symbol seems, if you will pardon the imagery, flaccid, given that in nearly the same breath her team proposes a ship of identical size but possessing an even larger armament.  That being said the mixed armaments doctrine strangely seems to be the least adaptable given its over reliance on long range gunnery being decisive and also the hardest to implement given the state of Legion resources and existing hulls.

However, one thing that both of those teams address that the others did not is that, in order to grow, the Legion needs to lay the ground work for larger combatant ships.  It is interesting that it is these two teams, as hostile as they are to each other, that have correctly identified and filled this need in their plans.  If the members of those two teams can come together in pushing for a large combat ship in general they could form a strong voting block.  It is also worth noting how widespread the support was for the command cruiser and in particular from LHAdm Macaria who said that it was a better solution than his own teams proposal. 

Here is my suggestion/proposal.  Both the capital ship team and the mixed armaments team know that they lack enough support to get their plans approved but both feel that a large combat ship is necessary moving forward.  Members of both teams soon fixate on the assembly's broad support for the command cruiser concept.  They both state that they would tentatively support the modular fleet system with modifications.  First and foremost, they will not support building such a large and logistically taxing ship if it lacks capital grade armament.  They also point out that the modular fleet proposal is the only one to retain a full squadron of sensor frigates as a permanent part of the fleet and that all other proposals concluded that four full combat squadrons was preferable and that frigate squadrons should be assigned 'as needed'.  In this way they might be able to bring the conservative faction on side.  If the conservative faction is brought into the discussion then all all three of the teams will likely agree that, as the core of a supposedly flexible fleet system, the command squadron would be more effective and survivable if it were instead composed of one of the new command cruisers, two light cruisers and a single sensor frigate.  The frigate being retained for redundancy and to be detached ether to raid or to cast a wider sensor net.  The light cruisers being added to ensure that, at a minimum, the command cruiser had some form of heavy point defense and when combined with the command cruiser, the squadron would have a decent amount of offensive firepower.  With some or all of these concessions I feel a consensus would be reachable, even by the fractious and factional High Lords.

Some additional considerations that might be added to the discussion.  Given that the command cruisers purpose is to be the centerpiece and will have escorts at all times, combined with tonnage considerations and the new mandate to arm it with heavy guns, arming it with its own point defense guns would be unnecessary.  Additionally, when it comes to what type of heavy guns the command cruiser should be armed with, I propose the following compromise.  The command cruiser will be armed with particle lances but that the next large combatant ship design must be armed with traditional railguns.  The pro-particle lance faction will like it because not only is it a new particle lance ship but they will be the the most prestigious ships to date, literally the flagships of the new-model battle fleets.  The pro-railgun faction will like it because these command cruisers will have a vary limited run, five or six at that most.  The next large ship however, will be more general purpose and form the backbone of the navy going forward and they will have it in writing that it will be armed with railguns!
 
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Offline Black

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2021, 03:12:04 AM »
Idea of command cruiser is very sound and such ship would be valuable addition to the Legion Navy, but I think that arming it with particle beams would never by allowed as there is too strong opposition to existence of light combatant armed with this kind of weapon. I believe most reasonable would be armament of 102mm batteries to increase survivability of the ship and fleet commander. But arming it with 152mm batteries seem more likely as that will allow Lord Captains to gain glory in direct combat.

I have to say that I am bit surprised by reluctance of many Lord Admirals to accept capital ship design in situation where Legion faced such ships in battle. I suppose that poor performance of Belair Navy gave many Legion officers too much confidence.

I believe that some variant of Conservative Doctrine variant will be approved at the end. I would personally like variant of Capital Ship Doctrine to be approved, but that seems unlikely.

I wonder if some kind of scout cruiser would be acceptable for Legion officers as replacement for the scout frigate. Scout cruiser would have better armament that would allow it to participate in battle and increased armour belt would increase its survivability as well.
 
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Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #97 on: May 30, 2021, 07:36:00 AM »
I think that arming it with particle beams would never by allowed as there is too strong opposition to existence of light combatant armed with this kind of weapon.

The thing is, in the scenario I described, the pro-railgun faction see arming the cruiser with particle lances as the best possible outcome. If they had their way then all the hellfires would be scraped and the Legion would never touch particle lances again but they are now keenly aware that they will not get it their way. So now their goal is to keep the number of particle lance armed ships to an absolute minimum and in their eyes this command cruiser is the perfect sacrificial lamb. The number produced will be extremely limited and given the tonnage considerations, the number of capital grade weapons that could be mounted would also be limited, hence weapons that rely on volume of fire like railguns wouldn't be feasible anyway. The best part from the pro-railgun position is that letting it be armed with particle lances maximizes their goal of minimizing the number of ships armed with particle lances and also gives them enough political capital to make a demand as unreasonable as 'the next large combat ship MUST be armed with railguns!'.

It also seems that the anti-particle lance hard liners are far fewer in number and influence than we previously thought. In essence, an extreme minority, just an extremely vocal one.
 
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Online nuclearslurpee (OP)

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2021, 10:10:21 AM »
It is impressive that all the proposals put forward have some merit.  Some have more and some have less but all of them address something that the others don't.

This was exactly the intention and I am pleased that this has not been lost on the readers. The afternoon session faces the task of reconciling these proposals and attempting to take the best from each one and fit them all together. Of course, there are fourteen different views on what is "best".

Quote
However, one thing that both of those teams address that the others did not is that, in order to grow, the Legion needs to lay the ground work for larger combatant ships.  It is interesting that it is these two teams, as hostile as they are to each other, that have correctly identified and filled this need in their plans.  If the members of those two teams can come together in pushing for a large combat ship in general they could form a strong voting block.  It is also worth noting how widespread the support was for the command cruiser and in particular from LHAdm Macaria who said that it was a better solution than his own teams proposal. 

Once against a very insightful observation. Indeed, the general trend does seem to be towards larger ships being a part of the Navy, but there is "some" disagreement as to how a larger ship ought to look.

Quote
Here is my suggestion/proposal. [...]
Idea of command cruiser is very sound and such ship would be valuable addition to the Legion Navy, but I think that arming it with particle beams would never by allowed as there is too strong opposition to existence of light combatant armed with this kind of weapon. I believe most reasonable would be armament of 102mm batteries to increase survivability of the ship and fleet commander. But arming it with 152mm batteries seem more likely as that will allow Lord Captains to gain glory in direct combat.

Both well-reasoned proposals, however I do feel obligated to point out that the proposed design sketch for the command cruiser does not specify any armament. This is not to say that it could not have any armament, but considering the displacement of propulsion, sensor package, and jump drive on the initial proposal it is an open question whether any tonnage will be left for weapons on this hull. Of course this is not to get too far ahead of ourselves, after all the design itself must be debated in the open assembly at the appropriate session as well, so much can yet change.

Quote
I have to say that I am bit surprised by reluctance of many Lord Admirals to accept capital ship design in situation where Legion faced such ships in battle. I suppose that poor performance of Belair Navy gave many Legion officers too much confidence.

As Mr. Foxxonius has noted the reluctance is not so clear-cut, many of the Lords Admiral do want a large ship just of their own preferred design. However you are almost certainly correct that the war against the Belaire has given many officers perhaps more confidence than they ought to possess.

Quote
I wonder if some kind of scout cruiser would be acceptable for Legion officers as replacement for the scout frigate. Scout cruiser would have better armament that would allow it to participate in battle and increased armour belt would increase its survivability as well.

There is still time for such a proposal to be made, as the sessions on the Bellerophon class and more generally the role and design of a fleet scout are indeed upcoming.

It also seems that the anti-particle lance hard liners are far fewer in number and influence than we previously thought. In essence, an extreme minority, just an extremely vocal one.

Quite correct. Despite the vociferousness of the hardliners on both sides many of the Lords Admiral on this and frankly most debates tend to occupy the position of a conservative faction of skeptics, rather than opponents, to any new or controversial ideas. This dynamic shall come out in the next afternoon session as the most vocal voices on the extremes are tempered somewhat - but only somewhat - by the perhaps more sensible work of those in the middle.

Excellent discussion all around, and I do hope to see it continue so long as insightful ideas are to be had. I cannot in good conscience encourage rising to the level of fisticuffs, but should this be what happens I shall not discourage it.  ;)
 
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Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2021, 09:18:15 PM »
Quote
However, one thing that both of those teams address that the others did not is that, in order to grow, the Legion needs to lay the ground work for larger combatant ships.  It is interesting that it is these two teams, as hostile as they are to each other, that have correctly identified and filled this need in their plans.  If the members of those two teams can come together in pushing for a large combat ship in general they could form a strong voting block.  It is also worth noting how widespread the support was for the command cruiser and in particular from LHAdm Macaria who said that it was a better solution than his own teams proposal. 

Once against a very insightful observation. Indeed, the general trend does seem to be towards larger ships being a part of the Navy, but there is "some" disagreement as to how a larger ship ought to look.

Quote
Here is my suggestion/proposal. [...]
Idea of command cruiser is very sound and such ship would be valuable addition to the Legion Navy, but I think that arming it with particle beams would never by allowed as there is too strong opposition to existence of light combatant armed with this kind of weapon. I believe most reasonable would be armament of 102mm batteries to increase survivability of the ship and fleet commander. But arming it with 152mm batteries seem more likely as that will allow Lord Captains to gain glory in direct combat.

Both well-reasoned proposals, however I do feel obligated to point out that the proposed design sketch for the command cruiser does not specify any armament. This is not to say that it could not have any armament, but considering the displacement of propulsion, sensor package, and jump drive on the initial proposal it is an open question whether any tonnage will be left for weapons on this hull. Of course this is not to get too far ahead of ourselves, after all the design itself must be debated in the open assembly at the appropriate session as well, so much can yet change.

Quote
I have to say that I am bit surprised by reluctance of many Lord Admirals to accept capital ship design in situation where Legion faced such ships in battle. I suppose that poor performance of Belair Navy gave many Legion officers too much confidence.

As Mr. Foxxonius has noted the reluctance is not so clear-cut, many of the Lords Admiral do want a large ship just of their own preferred design. However you are almost certainly correct that the war against the Belaire has given many officers perhaps more confidence than they ought to possess.


I still feel like I have not been able to put into words the best argument for my proposed compromise. I will attempt to do so now.

At this stage of the conference, enough people have put enough of their cards on the table to form a much better idea of what type of hand they are each playing. The biggest revelation that I have come too is that the true goals of the railgun and particle lance factions are not necessarily in opposition to each other, even though members of both sides might still think that they are. The main goal of the railgun faction, in my eyes, is to ensure that the railgun remains the Legions primary naval weapon system and to ensure that particle lances do not supplant them in that capacity. They put forward the capital ship doctrine, and its complete lack of particle lance armed ships, so that the proponents of those ships would be eager to agree to even a small compromise such as re-adding beam squadrons as optional attachments. What they have yet to fully comprehend is that the particle lance factions true goal has never been to replace railguns as the navy's mainstay weapon system. The goal of the particle lance faction is to prevent this new and relatively underdeveloped technology from being killed in its crib, thus depriving the Legion of the critical new capability of long range gunnery. They seek to achieve this but ensuring, at a minimum, that the naval design board is allowed to iterate on the Hellfire design in order to address its short comings, or possibly even getting an entirely new particle lance armed ship class approved. In so doing, guarantee that particle lances continue to have a place in naval thinking in order to secure continued R&D funding so that the technology can mature into an effective and reliable compliment to the main line railgun ships, not replace them. Like the railgun faction, they submitted a doctrine that went farther than what they actually wanted but to a far greater degree. The aim was to scare the railgun hardliners enough that they would jump at the chance to give them a relatively modest concession in order to prevent the “mixed armaments doctrine” from being seriously considered.

The two sides have agreed to play chicken with each other but have yet to realize that they are lined up in the same direction.

I have a few further points to make, including a plausible and dare I say it, canny reason for the railgun faction to put forward a motion to modestly increase the tonnage of the proposed command cruiser so that the particle lances can be fitted. However it is getting late and I want to make sure that at least these points can be seen well before the next update, so I will post what I have now and come back to it later.

Keep up the great work!
Long live the Duranium Legion!
 
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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2021, 10:14:07 AM »
I still feel like I have not been able to put into words the best argument for my proposed compromise. I will attempt to do so now.

At this stage of the conference, enough people have put enough of their cards on the table to form a much better idea of what type of hand they are each playing. The biggest revelation that I have come too is that the true goals of the railgun and particle lance factions are not necessarily in opposition to each other, even though members of both sides might still think that they are. The main goal of the railgun faction, in my eyes, is to ensure that the railgun remains the Legions primary naval weapon system and to ensure that particle lances do not supplant them in that capacity. They put forward the capital ship doctrine, and its complete lack of particle lance armed ships, so that the proponents of those ships would be eager to agree to even a small compromise such as re-adding beam squadrons as optional attachments. What they have yet to fully comprehend is that the particle lance factions true goal has never been to replace railguns as the navy's mainstay weapon system. The goal of the particle lance faction is to prevent this new and relatively underdeveloped technology from being killed in its crib, thus depriving the Legion of the critical new capability of long range gunnery. They seek to achieve this but ensuring, at a minimum, that the naval design board is allowed to iterate on the Hellfire design in order to address its short comings, or possibly even getting an entirely new particle lance armed ship class approved. In so doing, guarantee that particle lances continue to have a place in naval thinking in order to secure continued R&D funding so that the technology can mature into an effective and reliable compliment to the main line railgun ships, not replace them. Like the railgun faction, they submitted a doctrine that went farther than what they actually wanted but to a far greater degree. The aim was to scare the railgun hardliners enough that they would jump at the chance to give them a relatively modest concession in order to prevent the “mixed armaments doctrine” from being seriously considered.

The two sides have agreed to play chicken with each other but have yet to realize that they are lined up in the same direction.

I don't want to say too much, but I think the next update on the afternoon doctrinal session will be to your liking.  ;)

Though I must note, while your arguments are eminently and applaudably rational, we must be careful not to forget that the Lords Admiral are emotional creatures and not only rational, in many cases tensions run high and reputations are tied up in winning these debates rather than reaching effective compromises. That is not to say that such compromises are impossible, only that they are not as easy to come by as some in the assembly might prefer.
 
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Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2021, 11:07:46 AM »
I have a few further points to make, including a plausible and dare I say it, canny reason for the railgun faction to put forward a motion to modestly increase the tonnage of the proposed command cruiser so that the particle lances can be fitted. However it is getting late and I want to make sure that at least these points can be seen well before the next update, so I will post what I have now and come back to it later.

I wanted to make sure I did, in fact, get back to those additional points.

Firstly I just wanted to go over some differences between the positions of the two factions. The differences come in three categories, namely consequences, scope and what they are willing to give up to avoid the consequences of failing to achieve the factions goals. I have no doubt that there are members of both sides that hold views far more polarized and extreme then what I suggest here but will, unless I missed the mark, take their ques from their factions moderates.

As I stated in my last post the railgun factions goal, as I see it, is to prevent particle lances from supplanting railguns as the navy's main weapon. In their mind, the consequences of failure would be nothing less than the doom of the Legion. The scope of their goal is quite large and could be said to be as large as the Legion navy as a whole. Given what they perceive the consequences to be and how how large the scope of their goal is, they would likely to be willing to give up quite a lot in order to guarantee what they see as the survival of the Legion, although naturally they would prefer to give up as little as possible.

By contrast, the particle lance faction would see the consequences for the failure of their faction as large but not nearly as dire. From their perspective, if particle lances were withdrawn from naval service, the Legion would still endure and continue claiming ultimate victory in any future war but that doing so might be far more costly, both in terms of lost hulls and lost personnel, without the ability to conduct long range gunnery. The scope of their goals are comparatively small, simply that particle lances continue to be a tool in the Legions arsenal and that they be allowed to continue developing the technology, designs and doctrine to make them more effective. For the particle lance faction the consequences of failure are still quite large but because the scope of their goals are comparatively small they would willing to give up far less, if anything at all. They simply have less to give up to begin with.

The railgun faction likely sees the adoption of a railgun armed heavy cruiser as the best way to ensure that railguns continue to be the navy's main weapon system for decades to come, but have also come to the conclusion that confirming that adoption during this conference is unlikely at best and impossible at worst. They still believe that they can make progress however and that, in order to do so they will have to make some sort of concession. This is why the broad support enjoyed by the command cruiser concept is so vital. The railgun faction would have an incentive to try to leverage the one thing that both factions agree on, that a large combat ship is the way forward, to get the particle lance faction to join them in supporting the command cruiser concept on the condition that it be armed. The incentive is that, if it is built and armed, it can be a sacrificial lamb. From the perspective of the railgun faction, the creation of a large combat ship armed with railguns is important, but insisting on arming this command cruiser with them might actually hurt their position more than it would help as it might make a future push for a particle lance armed ship more likely to succeed. If instead they allow or even support arming the command cruiser with particle lances they might be able to get everything they want. Doing so would generate a huge amount of political capital, it would make them seem magnanimous, bi-partison and to be the side of unity. Because of how limited the production run would be, combined with the main purpose of the command cruiser being second line in nature anyway, allowing it to be armed with particle lances would be a concession of the smallest order but one that the particle lance faction might scramble to get a hold of.

The above paragraph is something I feel confident could be worked out by an up and coming junior officer on the staff of one of the pro-railgun Admirals during the lunch break. Such posts have a tendency to be filled by promising and brilliant officers who are not senior enough to be widely known about or fully appreciated. Once these observations are brought to their superiors however, a game plan might emerge like this.

If we say that we would support the command cruiser on the condition that it be armed, the particle lance faction would likely back it.
If we allow it to be armed with particle lances, we lose almost nothing but are then in a position to make demands that will likely be agreed to.
We then acknowledge that it would be too difficult to fit the armament into a 20kt hull and so motion that the design be afforded an additional 2kt to make room for them.
By doing this, our demands go from being likely agreed to, to uncontestable and solidifies our influence over future doctrine.

At this point they could go nuts. That the next large combat ship would be armed with railguns would be a given. They could argue that since a particle lance armed ship would be a guaranteed part of every fleet, additional beam frigate squadrons are less necessary and should be de-prioritized. Even if they can't get that fully agreed to, they still might be able to get the assembly to agree to some sort of limit on the number of particle lance armed ships as a percentage of the navy's total hulls or tonnage. Given how conciliatory they would appear for backing a particle lance armed command cruiser they would have the political equivalent of a blank check. Even if someone from the particle lance faction worked all this out on the fly, I still think they would agree to it given that the aims and scope of the goals of the two factions are not the same as each other. In this scenario, not only does everyone get what they want, but they all get to feel like they are the ones who came out ahead.

All that being said these are just my musings and I am sure there is plenty about the situation that I don't know. Whether some or any of these things come to pass, I am supper excited to see what the next update brings!

Anyway, this post got stupidly long. I think it is also apparent at this point that I might be a bit over invested in this timeline, given how much time I am spending thinking and writing about it. It just goes to show you how good a job you are doing Nuclearslurpee!

Long live the Duranium Legion!
 
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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2021, 11:54:28 AM »
All that being said these are just my musings and I am sure there is plenty about the situation that I don't know. Whether some or any of these things come to pass, I am supper excited to see what the next update brings!

Indeed, there is much that any reader - and perhaps even the author? - do not yet know. However I value such comments nevertheless as they provide useful insights which often can make their way into, or at least influence, following updates. In this case while your line of thought may or may not be a viable solution to the conflicts between the Lords Admiral, I will say that it has given me some ideas as far as resolving a minor conundrum which had come up in the narrative, though I need to consider just how such resolution could be accomplished.

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Anyway, this post got stupidly long. I think it is also apparent at this point that I might be a bit over invested in this timeline, given how much time I am spending thinking and writing about it. It just goes to show you how good a job you are doing Nuclearslurpee!

Long live the Duranium Legion!

As a famous cartoonist once quipped, "There is no 'over-invested'. There is only 'open AAR' and 'I need to re-read'."  ;)
 
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Offline El Pip

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #103 on: June 01, 2021, 03:11:28 AM »
An impressively verbose summary of the Doctrinal options facing the Legion, it is more variations on a theme than radical change though I doubt those involved see it as such. But the fact remains that no-one proposed carrier strike forces, missiles, massive mine fields, stealth ships equipped with hi-radiation population busting bombs or super dreadnoughts.

I am disgusted by Lord Admiral Pandai stooping so low as to actually mention resource constraints, some blows are too low even for a naval doctrine conference. Next thing people will be asking about the gallcite requirements of the "Charge at high speed into short range" and other such heresies. Where will it end?

As has been hinted a degree of compromise involving bits of all options seems best. I will not repeat the Capital Ship discussion as I think some sort of 20kT ship is both likely to happen and be a good start. If pressed I would go with Team Modular, maybe not the exact details but the general concept of fleets having a 'Core' with various add-ons seems sound and a better reflection of how the Legion actually fights.

On which point a bit of firming up thinking around Jump Point Assaults should also be a priority, I am sympathetic to giving commanders extra options by making all squadrons jump capable but it is a lot of tonnage for a capability that has thus far never been required. I think a good compromise would be to discuss the questions does every fleet in the Legion need to be capable of making a Jump Point assault? If nothing else it should provoke some lively 'discussions' and colourful metaphors.
 
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Offline Foxxonius Augustus

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Re: The Official Chronicle of the Duranium Legion
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2021, 03:27:32 PM »
On which point a bit of firming up thinking around Jump Point Assaults should also be a priority, I am sympathetic to giving commanders extra options by making all squadrons jump capable but it is a lot of tonnage for a capability that has thus far never been required. I think a good compromise would be to discuss the questions does every fleet in the Legion need to be capable of making a Jump Point assault? If nothing else it should provoke some lively 'discussions' and colourful metaphors.

As a famous cartoonist once quipped, "There is no 'over-invested'. There is only 'open AAR' and 'I need to re-read'."  ;)

So I just re-read the chronicle as it currently stands. I actually read it a few times just to double check a few things.

One of the things that needed confirmation was the state of the Legions knowledge surrounding Jump Point Theory, both theoretical and practical. Having poured over research budgets, the allocation of scientists to state approved projects and the announcements of new discoveries, I noticed something odd. It will likely be critical both to the discussion about the doctrine of organic jump capability after the assembly returns from lunch and for the upcoming Session on Jump Vessel Assessment and Future Prospects, set to take place the following day.

Unless I have missed something, all current Legion jump drives have an efficiency factor of five or lower.

It is widely accepted that an efficiency factor of four is considered the minimum for what would be a research prototype, a proof of concept, fit for lab experiments of perhaps fitting on the first extra solar exploration ship. An efficiency factor of five amounts to a production prototype, worth building a class or two around but still not mature enough for widespread deployment. If my findings are accurate, it entirely explains why the Legions current jump ships are under so much scrutiny and why some rightfully question it they should be included at the squadron level at all. Having crunched some numbers I suspect that nearly every Legion jump drive is at least one thousand void tons larger than they need to be and some are even more overweight than that! With even a modest, if immediate, investment in the appropriate research and development, the next generation of jump ships could drastically reduce the so called "dead weight" in the Legions battle-fleets. There are a few avenues that are possible.

Increasing the supported squadron size is the fastest as the research required would be cheap and straightforward. I will use the Grand Cross as an example. I estimate that its equipped jump drive displaces approximately 2,900 void tons and supports a squadron size of four, they could be reequipped with an upgraded jump drive that could support a squadron size of five that would displace no more than 3,150 void tons. This would require cutting about 250 tons worth of systems, likely fuel or maintenance reserves, but as a result could support an entire extra 12,500 ton ship. If we extrapolate to the entire fleet I estimate that the Legion could field an additional 155,000 void tons of combatant ships without any additional jump ships.

The second avenue to explore is an increase in jump drive efficiency. For this I will continue to use the Grand Cross class as an example. By increasing jump drive efficiency from five to six, the displacement of the jump drive can be reduced by approximately 425 void tons. By increasing jump drive efficiency to eight, it can be reduced by over one thousand tons. I have had much more difficulty in estimating the tonnage requirements for the Legions weapon systems but with that kind of weight savings the jump ships might reasonably be turned into useful combat ships. The problem is that this would be much harder to implement as a refit from the existing hulls and would likely require entirely new designs.

The last and most interesting option that I will put forth numbers for is combining the previous two. Again using the Grand Cross class as our example. If we assume a jump drive efficiency of eight, supporting a squadron of five ships of 12,500 void tons each, the required drive would come in just shy of 2,000 void tons displacement. That is still a savings of approximately 900 tons that could be used for arming this new generation of jump ships and it could carry an additional ship on top of that!
 
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