v1.13.0 Bugs Thread

[IanD]

The function number; 1.13.0
The complete error text; n/a
The window affected; various
What you were doing at the time; Exploring & Ground Combat
Conventional or TN start
Random or Real Stars
Is your decimal separator a comma?  decimal separator
Is the bug is easy to reproduce; intermittent or a one-off? Exploring most of the time. Ground Combat constant
If this is a long campaign - say 75 years or longer - let me know the length of the campaign as well; 32 years


Potential bug 1: My survey ships set with standing orders refuel at colony or hub at 50% fuel rarely travel to colony to refuel preferring to run dry (I have no hubs). Same applies to maintenance supplies. Is this WAI?

Potential bug 2: An alien race tried to set up shop on my colony cost 0 colony. I set to hostile and appeared to destroy the interlopers. But I am still getting Ground Intelligence Report  Estimated Hostile Force (Error Range: 7%) Estimated Hostile Force: Unknown Unit Types: 211. but my ground forces will no longer engage the enemy. There is no separate colony that I have conquered so what is going on?

Potential bug 3: I have been unable to transfer maintenance supplies from supply ships to other vessels. Is there a tech to enable this?

Potential bug 4: Even though I emplaced an ordnance transfer Station on a captured precursor colony still unable to load missiles from colony, including on to a captured precursor warship that uses these missiles. There is no cargo shuttle station on colony. Is this the problem?

Things I miss: Standing order to refuel at tanker.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

This checkbox toggle seems to apply to all fleets, instead of the single fleet. I'm not sure if it's intended or not. "Auto-Include Lagrange Points" also applies to all fleets instead of just the individual fleet selected. I assume these also affect Standing Orders auto-routing (and not just manual auto-routing), in which case this is definitely a bug, since sometimes the player would want different routing logic for different fleets.

To reproduce:
1) Select a fleet.
2) Check or uncheck one of these two checkboxes.
3) Select a different fleet, and see that the option you chose persists (even after 'refreshing'--it's not just visual)

"Auto-Include Lagrange Points" is intended to apply to all fleets as it is a general setting. "Assume Fleet is Jump-Capable" was intended as a general setting but after considering it, I think it is more appropriate to be fleet-specific so I have changed it on that basis.

This setting doesn't affect standing orders.

SJW: Jump-Capable fixed for v1.14. Auto-Include Lagrange is working as intended.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

The function number; 1.13.0
The complete error text; n/a
The window affected; various
What you were doing at the time; Exploring & Ground Combat
Conventional or TN start
Random or Real Stars
Is your decimal separator a comma?  decimal separator
Is the bug is easy to reproduce; intermittent or a one-off? Exploring most of the time. Ground Combat constant
If this is a long campaign - say 75 years or longer - let me know the length of the campaign as well; 32 years


Potential bug 1: My survey ships set with standing orders refuel at colony or hub at 50% fuel rarely travel to colony to refuel preferring to run dry (I have no hubs). Same applies to maintenance supplies. Is this WAI?

Potential bug 2: An alien race tried to set up shop on my colony cost 0 colony. I set to hostile and appeared to destroy the interlopers. But I am still getting Ground Intelligence Report  Estimated Hostile Force (Error Range: 7%) Estimated Hostile Force: Unknown Unit Types: 211. but my ground forces will no longer engage the enemy. There is no separate colony that I have conquered so what is going on?

Potential bug 3: I have been unable to transfer maintenance supplies from supply ships to other vessels. Is there a tech to enable this?

Potential bug 4: Even though I emplaced an ordnance transfer Station on a captured precursor colony still unable to load missiles from colony, including on to a captured precursor warship that uses these missiles. There is no cargo shuttle station on colony. Is this the problem?

Things I miss: Standing order to refuel at tanker.

#1 Something else at play here. If refuel at colony didn't work I would be getting a lot of bug reports to that effect. Are there colonies with refuelling stations or spaceports that the survey ships can reach (using either jump engines or jump gates)?

#2 Do you have any units set to frontline attack?

#3 Do you have cargo handling systems on your supply ships?

#4 Does the ship picking up the missiles have them listed in its class or ship loadout?

[IanD]

The function number; 1.13.0
The complete error text; n/a
The window affected; various
What you were doing at the time; Exploring & Ground Combat
Conventional or TN start
Random or Real Stars
Is your decimal separator a comma?  decimal separator
Is the bug is easy to reproduce; intermittent or a one-off? Exploring most of the time. Ground Combat constant
If this is a long campaign - say 75 years or longer - let me know the length of the campaign as well; 32 years


Potential bug 1: My survey ships set with standing orders refuel at colony or hub at 50% fuel rarely travel to colony to refuel preferring to run dry (I have no hubs). Same applies to maintenance supplies. Is this WAI?

Potential bug 2: An alien race tried to set up shop on my colony cost 0 colony. I set to hostile and appeared to destroy the interlopers. But I am still getting Ground Intelligence Report  Estimated Hostile Force (Error Range: 7%) Estimated Hostile Force: Unknown Unit Types: 211. but my ground forces will no longer engage the enemy. There is no separate colony that I have conquered so what is going on?

Potential bug 3: I have been unable to transfer maintenance supplies from supply ships to other vessels. Is there a tech to enable this?

Potential bug 4: Even though I emplaced an ordnance transfer Station on a captured precursor colony still unable to load missiles from colony, including on to a captured precursor warship that uses these missiles. There is no cargo shuttle station on colony. Is this the problem?

Things I miss: Standing order to refuel at tanker.

#1 Something else at play here. If refuel at colony didn't work I would be getting a lot of bug reports to that effect. Are there colonies with refuelling stations or spaceports that the survey ships can reach (using either jump engines or jump gates)?

#2 Do you have any units set to frontline attack?

#3 Do you have cargo handling systems on your supply ships?

#4 Does the ship picking up the missiles have them listed in its class or ship loadout?

#1: Yes, the home colony has refueling facilities, and 50% fuel should be sufficient to get home and all have jump engines and usually only a couple of jumps from home. Occasionally I will see a survey ship go to refuel but very infrequent.

#2: Yes, set 52 Tank battalions set to front line attack, via drop down menu.

#3: Oops! No! Managed to miss that out. Sorry!

#4: That's why I used a former precursor escort cruiser which that missile was specified for. but no cargo shuttle station on colony or ship, but there is an ordnance transfer station. Because they are alien missiles they do not show up in stockpile or in the ordnance tab so cannot allocate them as load out..

[Zap0]

#4: That's why I used a former precursor escort cruiser which that missile was specified for. but no cargo shuttle station on colony or ship, but there is an ordnance transfer station. Because they are alien missiles they do not show up in stockpile or in the ordnance tab so cannot allocate them as load out..

That's the problem, ships will only load things that are in their loadout, either the stuff set in their ship loadout, or if that doesn't exist, that of their class loadout. Mechanically the ship can fire precursor AMMs equally well as any other size 1 missile.

[Ancalagon]

Got what seemed like a couple hundred errors during system generation jumping into a new JP. Function #2608, #222, #224, #2339 in that order, and then repeating. Over and over.

According to a quick peek in the database, this is a new NPR (not a spoiler race) and they have been generated with the "pre-industrial" flag.

Edit: So, I don't know if this is intended or not, but when I approached their planet I discovered that they have two separate empires for the same NPR race on the planet. I'm only detecting STO and ground forces for one of them.

Update on the strike-through text: This system actually spawned with both a 1) Pre-industrial NPR, and 2) Rakhas on the same body. That seems like a bug, although it's an interesting situation with roleplay implications. Also, apparently they're not hostile to each other even after time progresses. I don't think they can detect each other. Maybe this bug created an interesting enough situation not to fix it. (Except for all the error messages I originally got above on system gen)

[skoormit]

Ship Design Display tab throws divide by zero errors for ships of size 38t or less.

Steps to reproduce:

• Design and build an unarmored ship with nothing but 33x "Fuel Storage - Fighter" and a 3 month deployment time. Size is 38 tons. Exact size is 0.7499 HS.
• Open the Naval Organization window, select the fleet with the ship, expand the node, and select the ship.
• Observe divide by zero error. Note that the bottom pane (which should show the ship design details text) contains only "error".
• Leave the Naval Organization window open.
• With SM mode enabled, open the Class Design window, unlock the class design, and add a "Fuel Storage - Fighter". Size is 39 tons. Exact size is 0.7708 HS.
• Return to the Naval Organization window and click the Refresh button.
• No error is thrown, and the bottom pane correctly displays the ship design details text.

The breakpoints bracket 0.75 HS, which is interesting.
Could be that something is rounding ship size to the nearest 0.1HS, then squaring it, then rounding that to nearest integer, then using that as a divisor.
Maintenance failure chance perhaps?

Fixed for v1.14. The problem was caused by Armour Width = 0

[Ancalagon]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

SJW: This is working as intended and is not a bug. A random connection in a fixed universe is more likely to connect to an existing system if you have generated a higher proportion of the potential systems.

[skoormit]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

I don't think this belongs in the bugs thread. Suggestions thread perhaps?

[Ancalagon]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

I don't think this belongs in the bugs thread. Suggestions thread perhaps?

It's a side effect of how a current system in the game works. If it doesn't rise to the level of a bug then just ignore it.

[skoormit]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

I don't think this belongs in the bugs thread. Suggestions thread perhaps?

It's a side effect of how a current system in the game works. If it doesn't rise to the level of a bug then just ignore it.

I really like your suggestion, and I think a fruitful discussion about it could lead to an improvement in the game.
But this is not the appropriate thread for that discussion.

To ignore your post, one must first read it.
Steve has very limited time. The volunteers who help vet bugs on this thread also have very limited time.
You are asking them to spend some of that time reading about something that is very clearly not a bug.

[nuclearslurpee]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

I don't think this belongs in the bugs thread. Suggestions thread perhaps?

It's a side effect of how a current system in the game works. If it doesn't rise to the level of a bug then just ignore it.

I really like your suggestion, and I think a fruitful discussion about it could lead to an improvement in the game.
But this is not the appropriate thread for that discussion.

To ignore your post, one must first read it.
Steve has very limited time. The volunteers who help vet bugs on this thread also have very limited time.
You are asking them to spend some of that time reading about something that is very clearly not a bug.

I would like to echo this. It is good to post suggestions in the appropriate thread, because this helps to stimulate discussion. Often if a good idea is proposed in the suggestion thread, other players will comment on it, refining the suggestion or discussing whether they agree with the idea. Getting a lot of players who share the opinion makes the suggestion more visible and more likely to be implemented.

This cannot happen in the bugs thread because it is for bug reporting/fixing/workarounds, not ideas discussion.

So if you report something you think is a bug, and are told that it is not by other knowledgeable forumers, but you still think the behavior is not good or should be changed, the suggestions thread is the place to discuss this and see if other players agree, which if so makes it more likely that such an idea will be noticed and implemented by Steve (although of course it is not for certain).

[Ancalagon]

Due to how the Max Number of Systems interacts with jump point linking, the chance of generating a jump point link to an existing system increases dramatically as you explore more and more systems, quickly turning what was an orderly and linear galactic map for decades or centuries into a very sudden spaghetti bowl. This seems like a very complicated problem, and I am not a math person so I don't know how to fix this. Ideally one would want a relatively constant chance of a JP linking to an existing system regardless of total systems surveyed, instead of a very, very low chance throughout most of the game until you reach some threshold and then suddenly linking to existing systems becomes a common occurrence.

I'm using default Local Gen Spread and Chance (15 spread, 50% chance) and Max Systems of 250 instead of the default 1000.

I made this bug report here in good faith because these may (or may not) turn out to be unintended side effects in how the JP link system is implemented.

My working assumption in reporting this on the bug thread is that the jump point link system is intended, by default, to have a low but relatively constant chance of linking to an existing system. That does not seem to be what actually happens in game.

In practice, I have found during the early game when most of the "system numbers" are ungenerated, there is a much lower than normal chance of systems linking to each other. As more and more systems are discovered, the "system number space" gets crowded and the chance of systems linking to each other grows far, far larger than in the early game. The net effect is that in the early game, JPs linking to existing systems are quite rare, while in the late game you start getting an avalanche of JPs linking to existing systems.

[Ancalagon]

I looked at the "Alien Race" table in the DB to watch diplomacy progress with a new NPR that shot at me, and I have not noticed diplomatic relations trending back to non-war while our races are not in mutual detection range of each other.

This prevents the scenario referenced in the C# Diplomacy Changes, where a race shoots at another's survey ship, but as long as you avoid contact, relations trend back to non-war. Instead, they are remaining static according to the DB, across many construction periods.

Once I put a fleet back in mutual detection range, relations started trending back to normal. This is obviously going to be a problem if they keep trying to shoot at every ship I try to bring in diplomatic sensor range. Perhaps relations should continue trending towards baseline, regardless of whether you are in mutual detection?

[Ancalagon]

I got this function error #899 when I entered the command telling this captured ship to "Absorb" another captured fleet at the same location. It may be because this fleet is set to 0 km/sec.

How did you get the speed to zero? Ships with no engines should default to 1 km/s to avoid divide by zero errors. If you set speed manually to zero then it should be corrected to 1.

It was a fuel harvester that the NPRs surrendered after I damaged it. I didn't modify the speed in any way, it was like that when I got it.

The zero speed was the problem, but I can't see a way for the code to generate that speed (although it did somehow). I've added some extra checks in case zero speed is set.

I've noticed this interesting occurrence twice now: after some enemy ships get hit with my missiles, they show as traveling at 0 km/sec. On the next interval, they correctly update to their new speeds. This might be related.