Author Topic: Star League Ship Designs  (Read 1606 times)

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Offline captainwolfer (OP)

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Star League Ship Designs
« on: January 26, 2021, 12:00:20 PM »
I've spent a fair bit of time working on my ships, and have recently gotten to Internal Fusion Engines. I figured I'd post my designs and get feedback on them

My fleet is primarily missile focused
Combat Ship classes:
6,000 Tons: Frigate - Operate in groups of 2
12,000 Tons: Destroyer - Operate in Destroyer Squadrons (DesRon) of 3x Destroyer, 1x Jump Destroyer
24,000 Tons: Cruiser - Operate in Cruiser Squadrons (CruRon) of 3x Cruiser, 1x Jump Cruiser
48,000 Tons: Battleship/Battlecruiser - Operate in Battle Squadrons (BatRon) of 3x Battleship, 1x Jump Carrier, or 3x Battlecruiser, 1x Jump Battlecruiser

Designs:
Patrol Frigate - Intended for colony defense, following NPR ships in my systems, and if needed also to act as picket ships for a fleet
Code: [Select]
Spruance C class Frigate      6 000 tons       180 Crew       1 477 BP       TCS 120    TH 962    EM 900
8016 km/s      Armour 5-29       Shields 30-300       HTK 40      Sensors 8/33/0/0      DCR 4      PPV 16
Maint Life 4.57 Years     MSP 1 815    AFR 72%    IFR 1.0%    1YR 141    5YR 2 116    Max Repair 481 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Frigate IF Drive  EP962.00 (1)    Power 962    Fuel Use 50.09%    Signature 962    Explosion 13%
Fuel Capacity 502 000 Litres    Range 30.1 billion km (43 days at full power)
Epsilon S30 / R300 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 300 seconds (0.1 per second)

25cm Railgun V50/C5 (2x4)    Range 240 000km     TS: 8 016 km/s     Power 15-5     RM 50 000 km    ROF 15       
25cm Railgun FC R240-TS8000 (50%) (1)     Max Range: 240 000 km   TS: 8 000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Frigate Reactor R10-PB30 (1)     Total Power Output 10.4    Exp 15%

ASS AS45-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 1260     Range 45.3m km    Resolution 10
RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km
Civ Thermal Sensor TH1.0-8.0 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22.4m km

Compact ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Destroyer - My destroyers are built around escorting my cruiser squadrons. Each CruRon is supposed to always work with a DesRon
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Outreach C class Destroyer      12 000 tons       324 Crew       2 571.4 BP       TCS 240    TH 1 800    EM 1 650
7500 km/s      Armour 6-46       Shields 55-366       HTK 91      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 17      PPV 36
Maint Life 3.89 Years     MSP 2 137    AFR 165%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 224    5YR 3 357    Max Repair 300 MSP
Magazine 314   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military IFD EP600.00 (3)    Power 1800    Fuel Use 49.88%    Signature 600    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1 125 000 Litres    Range 33.8 billion km (52 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

15cm Railgun V50/C5 (4x4)    Range 150 000km     TS: 7 500 km/s     Power 9-5     RM 50 000 km    ROF 10       
Frigate BFC R160-TS7500 (50%) (1)     Max Range: 160 000 km   TS: 7 500 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
TF Reactor R20-PB10 (1)     Total Power Output 20.4    Exp 7%

AMM-1 Missile Launcher (12)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
AMM FC17-1.5M-R1 (50%) (2)     Range 17.1m km    Resolution 1
Ajax AMM-1 Mk2 (314)    Speed: 50 000 km/s    End: 0.6m     Range: 1.7m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 333/200/100

Destroyer AS26-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 420     Range 26.1m km    Resolution 10
MSS AS19-1.7M-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1

Compact ECCM-2 (3)         ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Jump Destroyers - Trades the AMM tubes for a jump drive
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Nelson C class Jump Destroyer      12 000 tons       341 Crew       2 321.1 BP       TCS 240    TH 1 800    EM 1 650
7500 km/s    JR 4-500      Armour 6-46       Shields 55-366       HTK 74      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 17      PPV 24
Maint Life 3.55 Years     MSP 2 046    AFR 165%    IFR 2.3%    1YR 250    5YR 3 750    Max Repair 300 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J12000(4-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4

Military IFD EP600.00 (3)    Power 1800    Fuel Use 49.88%    Signature 600    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 1 135 000 Litres    Range 34.1 billion km (52 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

15cm Railgun V50/C5 (4x4)    Range 150 000km     TS: 7 500 km/s     Power 9-5     RM 50 000 km    ROF 10       
Frigate BFC R160-TS7500 (50%) (1)     Max Range: 160 000 km   TS: 7 500 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
TF Reactor R20-PB10 (1)     Total Power Output 20.4    Exp 7%

Destroyer AS26-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 420     Range 26.1m km    Resolution 10

ECCM-3 (1)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Cruisers - The backbone of my fleet, dedicated to missile warfare
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Sword C class Cruiser      24 000 tons       536 Crew       4 732.3 BP       TCS 480    TH 3 600    EM 1 650
7500 km/s      Armour 6-74       Shields 55-366       HTK 157      Sensors 33/33/0/0      DCR 20      PPV 100
Maint Life 2.30 Years     MSP 2 432    AFR 461%    IFR 6.4%    1YR 624    5YR 9 362    Max Repair 300 MSP
Magazine 1 086   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Military IFD EP600.00 (6)    Power 3600    Fuel Use 49.88%    Signature 600    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 2 141 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km (49 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

GC4 R300-85.00 Turret (4x4)    Range 30 000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30 000 km    ROF 5       
Frigate BFC R120-TS6000 (50%) (1)     Max Range: 120 000 km   TS: 6 000 km/s     92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17
PDFC R80-TS20000 (50%) (1)     Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 20 000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0

S6/T295 Missile Launcher (40.0%) (30)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 295
MFC FC36-R10 (50%) (3)     Range 36.9m km    Resolution 10
Agamemnon ASM-6 Mk2 (180)    Speed: 50 000 km/s    End: 7m     Range: 21.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 266/160/80

ASS AS125-R100 (50%) (1)     GPS 21000     Range 125.9m km    Resolution 100
PDSS AS3-0.345M-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 5     Range 3.8m km    MCR 345.1k km    Resolution 1
FSS AS8-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 42     Range 8.3m km    Resolution 10
Thermal Sensor TH3.00-33.00 (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km
RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

Compact ECCM-2 (4)         ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Jump Cruiser - Dedicated to Gauss based Point defense.
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Shield C class Jump Cruiser      24 000 tons       637 Crew       4 912.4 BP       TCS 480    TH 3 600    EM 1 650
7500 km/s    JR 4-500      Armour 8-74       Shields 55-366       HTK 137      Sensors 0/33/0/0      DCR 25      PPV 63
Maint Life 3.12 Years     MSP 4 498    AFR 307%    IFR 4.3%    1YR 696    5YR 10 440    Max Repair 605.9 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J24000(4-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 24000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4

Military IFD EP600.00 (6)    Power 3600    Fuel Use 49.88%    Signature 600    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 2 141 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km (49 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

GC4 R300-85.00 Turret (9x4)    Range 30 000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30 000 km    ROF 5       
PDFC R80-TS20000 (50%) (3)     Max Range: 80 000 km   TS: 20 000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0

PDSS AS3-0.345M-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 5     Range 3.8m km    MCR 345.1k km    Resolution 1
Destroyer AS26-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 420     Range 26.1m km    Resolution 10
RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

Compact ECCM-2 (3)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Battlecruiser - I am retooling a shipyard to build beam-focused Battlecruisers, so I don't always need to use missiles.
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Revenge class Battlecruiser      48 000 tons       1 601 Crew       12 744.5 BP       TCS 960    TH 8 640    EM 7 650
9000 km/s      Armour 10-117       Shields 255-425       HTK 315      Sensors 33/33/0/0      DCR 30      PPV 256
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 8 978    AFR 614%    IFR 8.5%    1YR 2 704    5YR 40 565    Max Repair 1080 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Beam IF Drive  EP2160.00 (4)    Power 8640    Fuel Use 51.35%    Signature 2160    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 4 247 000 Litres    Range 31 billion km (39 days at full power)
Epsilon S85 / R425 Shields (3)     Recharge Time 425 seconds (0.6 per second)

PL-12/40s (10)    Range 240 000km     TS: 9 000 km/s     Power 37-5    ROF 40       
PB-6/15s (12)    Range 240 000km     TS: 9 000 km/s     Power 15-5    ROF 15       
LR FC R320-TS9000 (50%) (4)     Max Range: 320 000 km   TS: 9 000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
TF Reactor R32 (4)     Total Power Output 126.4    Exp 5%

ASS AS45-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 1260     Range 45.3m km    Resolution 10
PDSS AS3-0.345M-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 5     Range 3.8m km    MCR 345.1k km    Resolution 1
RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH3.00-33.00 (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

ECCM-3 (4)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Jump Battlecruiser - Trades the particle lances and some of the particle beams for a jump drive
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Rampage class Battlecruiser      48 000 tons       1 463 Crew       12 468.6 BP       TCS 960    TH 8 640    EM 7 650
9000 km/s    JR 4-500      Armour 10-117       Shields 255-425       HTK 265      Sensors 33/33/0/0      DCR 30      PPV 128
Maint Life 1.42 Years     MSP 8 870    AFR 614%    IFR 8.5%    1YR 4 834    5YR 72 505    Max Repair 2109.7 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

J48000(4-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 48000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4

Beam IF Drive  EP2160.00 (4)    Power 8640    Fuel Use 51.35%    Signature 2160    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 4 287 000 Litres    Range 31.3 billion km (40 days at full power)
Epsilon S85 / R425 Shields (3)     Recharge Time 425 seconds (0.6 per second)

PL-12/40s (8)    Range 240 000km     TS: 9 000 km/s     Power 37-5    ROF 40       
LR FC R320-TS9000 (50%) (2)     Max Range: 320 000 km   TS: 9 000 km/s     97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
TF Reactor R32 (2)     Total Power Output 63.2    Exp 5%

ASS AS45-R10 (50%) (1)     GPS 1260     Range 45.3m km    Resolution 10
PDSS AS3-0.345M-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 5     Range 3.8m km    MCR 345.1k km    Resolution 1
RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH3.00-33.00 (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

ECCM-3 (2)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

In addition to my combat designs, I also have Fleet Auxiliaries, ships dedicated to logistics while still being fast enough to not slow down the fleet too much. They operate in Logistics Squadrons (LogiRon) of 1x Support Vessel, 2x Fast Tanker, and 1x Collier
Support Vessel - Carries Jump drive, maintenance supplies, has a small hanger deck for a rescue shuttle, and (eventually) 2 boarding shuttles. It has 2000 cryo space for rescued crew or captured aliens
Code: [Select]
Newport class Support Vessel      36 000 tons       750 Crew       5 467.8 BP       TCS 720    TH 4 320    EM 1 650
6000 km/s    JR 4-500      Armour 4-97       Shields 55-366       HTK 161      Sensors 33/33/0/0      DCR 35      PPV 0
Maint Life 7.32 Years     MSP 46 373    AFR 415%    IFR 5.8%    1YR 1 516    5YR 22 746    Max Repair 1256 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3 000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 2 000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 12   
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 60    Morale Check Required   

J36000(4-500) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 36000 tons    Distance 500k km     Squadron Size 4

Auxiliary IF Drive  EP1080.00 (4)    Power 4320    Fuel Use 37.18%    Signature 1080    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 4 036 000 Litres    Range 54.3 billion km (104 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH3.00-33.00 (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

ECM 30

Strike Group
1x Savior Rescue Shuttle   Speed: 13012 km/s    Size: 19.98

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Fast Tanker - It's a tanker. not much else to say.
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Argentina class Fast Tanker      36 000 tons       453 Crew       3 475.6 BP       TCS 720    TH 4 320    EM 1 650
6000 km/s      Armour 4-97       Shields 55-366       HTK 99      Sensors 0/33/0/0      DCR 24      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.70 Years     MSP 1 513    AFR 419%    IFR 5.8%    1YR 631    5YR 9 460    Max Repair 540 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Auxiliary IF Drive  EP1080.00 (4)    Power 4320    Fuel Use 37.18%    Signature 1080    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 20 001 000 Litres    Range 269 billion km (518 days at full power)
Refuelling Capability: 100 000 litres per hour     Complete Refuel 200 hours
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Collier - Carries reloads for the fleet
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Calico class Collier      36 000 tons       608 Crew       5 153.4 BP       TCS 720    TH 4 320    EM 1 650
6000 km/s      Armour 5-97       Shields 55-366       HTK 137      Sensors 0/33/0/0      DCR 24      PPV 0
Maint Life 1.77 Years     MSP 2 147    AFR 432%    IFR 6.0%    1YR 847    5YR 12 700    Max Repair 540 MSP
Magazine 5 760   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Auxiliary IF Drive  EP1080.00 (4)    Power 4320    Fuel Use 37.18%    Signature 1080    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 3 281 000 Litres    Range 44.1 billion km (85 days at full power)
Epsilon S55 / R366 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 366 seconds (0.2 per second)

Agamemnon ASM-6 Mk2 (720)    Speed: 50 000 km/s    End: 7m     Range: 21.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 266/160/80
Ajax AMM-1 Mk2 (1440)    Speed: 50 000 km/s    End: 0.6m     Range: 1.7m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 333/200/100
Ordnance Transfer Rate: 80 MSP per hour     Complete Transfer 72 hours

RWR EM3.00-33.00 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 33     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  45.4m km

ECM 30

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 01:05:04 PM »
My fleet is primarily missile focused
Combat Ship classes:
6,000 Tons: Frigate - Operate in groups of 2
12,000 Tons: Destroyer - Operate in Destroyer Squadrons (DesRon) of 3x Destroyer, 1x Jump Destroyer
24,000 Tons: Cruiser - Operate in Cruiser Squadrons (CruRon) of 3x Cruiser, 1x Jump Cruiser
48,000 Tons: Battleship/Battlecruiser - Operate in Battle Squadrons (BatRon) of 3x Battleship, 1x Jump Carrier, or 3x Battlecruiser, 1x Jump Battlecruiser

This may be a personal taste thing, but once you get up to capital ship sizes I would just abandon the idea of jump warships and use tenders, either commercial (if low speed is okay) or a smaller "warship" class with minimal armaments mainly for PD. At that size, you're paying a lot to build something that's not carrying its weight in a battle situation, to the point where you're better off using the resources and shipyard time on something more capable. You still need the jump drive but a smaller ship dedicated only to carrying it will still get you where you need to go for a minimal investment.

For the smaller classes while this is still technically true, if you intend for those ships to operate in small groups independently then having even basic PD guns on the jump ship is worthwhile. Capital ships however should never be operating independently without a supporting fleet so this logic doesn't hold.

General fleet comments: Speed mostly looks good for IntCF, assuming the frigates are not intended to be fleet units in most circumstances the speed mismatch is not a problem. Some people will say you need to be faster but for a missile fleet 7500 km/s is fine and you have 9000 km/s on the beam BCs so I see no problems. Engine/Fuel ratios look fairly close to 3:1 edging higher which I think is good for a combat fleet as long as you can manage the fuel logistics. 30b km range is in my opinion a good target for a fleet. Maint lives mostly look good.

My main issue is that I don't understand the use of shields here. Each shield you have is nominally equal to one layer of armor which IMO is not really enough to gain the benefits of shields - I've seen NPRs at lower tech levels than this deploying much thicker shield layers at their relative ship sizes, probably about doubly thick on a per-ton basis. With such minimal shields you're not absorbing enough damage to really blunt weapon penetration or absorb enough damage that your hull doesn't need repairs after a skirmish, which are the major advantages of shields. They're just going to be broken too quickly to accomplish anything particularly impressive.

As a secondary issue, I would strongly suggest that at least one fleet class carry passive sensors in the size 6, 9, or 12 range, especially EM as this will let you outrange all possible enemy active sensors at equal, +1, and +2 tech levels respectively. Size 3 doesn't really give you that benefit although in practice it will probably be fine.

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Spruance C class Frigate      6 000 tonsLooks suitable for the mission profile, though I think it's over-armored. I don't like the armament as 25 cm railguns are too heavy to be a good dual-purpose armament and for light anti-ship armament I'd rather use lasers for the range. Your BFC needs a longer range as it will currently have 0% accuracy at the maximum range of your weapons which compounds the already short-range weakness of railguns. Generally with BFCs there is little reason to have anything less than 4x range multiplier unless you are seriously starved for tonnage or designing a PD-only BFC in which case a range of ~100,000 km is adequate to get 90% accuracy or so. Finally, I'd reduce the active sensor size/range and bump up the passives, extra active range isn't helpful on a beam ship and if you want to tail/monitor/scout passives usually will do what you need anyways.

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Outreach C class Destroyer      12 000 tons
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Nelson C class Jump Destroyer      12 000 tonsThese railguns are better as DP weapons, though the fire control is a bit weak still it is fine for PD work. I think the AMMs should be faster at IntCF tech but they should be able to outrace any comparable-tech ASMs which is the important thing. They will struggle against NPR AMM spam I think. The RES10 sensor isn't really needed since, again, you can't really shoot at anything beyond the range of your RES1 anyways. I personally would mount 2x BFCs for redundancy (even on the frigate if space permits, actually).

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Sword C class Cruiser      24 000 tonsI'm not sure why you've chosen to develop both Gauss and Railguns, but this is a fleet threat not a tech thread so okay. I might have preferred 30% launchers to maximize salvo size (assuming you don't want box launchers for any number of reasons). Triple set of active sensors looks sensible. These should have a CIC or the jump cruiser should not, IMO, keep it consistent.

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Shield C class Jump Cruiser      24 000 tonsThe RES10 active sensor is a complete waste of space.

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Revenge class Battlecruiser      48 000 tonsThis ship is going to die horribly in deep space. On one hand, you've got them set up for 9000 km/s speed which should indicate that they are intended to operate independently of the rest of the fleet (7500 km/s) - not IMO a good use of capital ships, but it is a valid battlecruiser doctrine so okay. However, these have zero point defense and will be easily torn to shreds by any missile fleet of appreciable mass. If you see this and decide to instead escort them with some destroyers, you're wasting 1/6 of your engine power/mass and forcing your destroyers to engage in combat at beam range where they are woefully unsuited.

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Rampage class Battlecruiser      48 000 tonsTechnically if these are intended to operate independently (as a BC squadron rather than a full fleet, of course), a jump BC is okay but you want to dedicate the remaining weapon tonnage to defensive weapons, and a reduced particle lance armament is not that. I would also put a flag bridge here if they are intended to operate independently.

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Newport class Support Vessel      36 000 tons
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Argentina class Fast Tanker      36 000 tons
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Calico class Collier      36 000 tonsPersonally, I would say that if you're going to use boosted engines on your support ships, you might as well go all the way and match your fleet design speed, especially since you should be relying on commercial ships for your day-to-day fleet logistics and using these as fast response groups that need to move with a fleet anyways. I also don't really see a lot of reason for these to have shields and armor as they should never get close to combat.

One interesting idea (E: once 1.13 rolls out) would be to consider a military support hangar vessel which can be used to repair armor at least on the DDs (at 36k tons I don't think you can achieve high speed and 24k tons of hangar space for the cruisers). I don't know that it would really be practical but it could be worth experimenting with.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 01:19:42 PM by nuclearslurpee »
 

Offline TheTalkingMeowth

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 01:18:09 PM »
I think armor repair in hangar is 1.13 only, isn't it?

Or did I lose track of when it was added?
 
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Offline nuclearslurpee

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 01:20:24 PM »
I think armor repair in hangar is 1.13 only, isn't it?

Or did I lose track of when it was added?

You need to read much more closely (and ignore the "Last Edit" timestamp...  ;) )
 

Offline misanthropope

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 02:01:02 PM »
having a whole distinct engine- and a good, research-intensive one- for the frigate is poking me right in the OCD.  feel you could get a good frigate at 4k tons using one destroyer engine.  5000-6000 tons is sort of a stratum for computer sensor resolutions, so being appreciably under that can be handy

i think you should find a way to fit some hangar onto the jump destroyer.  recon fighters are so freaking good, and if youre bundling several destroyer squadrons into a fleet, youll have some customizability; you could send along some boarding craft, or a box launcher pod, or whatever else.

much of the benefit of a beam ship is being able to mop up missile ships, and a waaaay smaller ship than the beam bc could do that just fine.  in fact a laser FAC or fighter to be carried by hypothetical jump-dd would be good value. 

if you were wanting a shot at kiting enemy beam ships, i imagine you could get enough deck space on the jump cruiser to lug a workable design about.  im imagining a 5000 ton parasite, a scaled-up beam fighter with ECCM and a tactical officer.

i feel there are four kinds of shields in aurora:  shields for arms-length beam fights, shields to induce the computer to shoot at the bearer, shields which should have been armor, and shields which should have been point defense.  i believe only your battlecruisers have type-1 or type-2 shields.

 

Offline captainwolfer (OP)

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2021, 02:20:42 PM »
This may be a personal taste thing, but once you get up to capital ship sizes I would just abandon the idea of jump warships and use tenders, either commercial (if low speed is okay) or a smaller "warship" class with minimal armaments mainly for PD. At that size, you're paying a lot to build something that's not carrying its weight in a battle situation, to the point where you're better off using the resources and shipyard time on something more capable. You still need the jump drive but a smaller ship dedicated only to carrying it will still get you where you need to go for a minimal investment.

For the smaller classes while this is still technically true, if you intend for those ships to operate in small groups independently then having even basic PD guns on the jump ship is worthwhile. Capital ships however should never be operating independently without a supporting fleet so this logic doesn't hold.
Part of my fleet arrangement is that any single squadron should be capable of independent operations, even if they aren't that great at it. The second part is that all jump ships should have as much defense as the ships they operate with, for Jump Point Assaults. The only exception is frigates since they are mainly for patrolling colony systems.

My main issue is that I don't understand the use of shields here. Each shield you have is nominally equal to one layer of armor which IMO is not really enough to gain the benefits of shields - I've seen NPRs at lower tech levels than this deploying much thicker shield layers at their relative ship sizes, probably about doubly thick on a per-ton basis. With such minimal shields you're not absorbing enough damage to really blunt weapon penetration or absorb enough damage that your hull doesn't need repairs after a skirmish, which are the major advantages of shields. They're just going to be broken too quickly to accomplish anything particularly impressive.
The shields on the cruisers and destroyers are mainly for absorbing missiles that get through point defense. It's intended that the shields will be enough for missile leakers, or will at least reduce the ability of larger amounts of missile hits to get through. Admittedly, I'm not expecting the cruisers and destroyers to survive for relatively long against dedicated beam ships that can stay in range.

As a secondary issue, I would strongly suggest that at least one fleet class carry passive sensors in the size 6, 9, or 12 range, especially EM as this will let you outrange all possible enemy active sensors at equal, +1, and +2 tech levels respectively. Size 3 doesn't really give you that benefit although in practice it will probably be fine.
I thought size 3 was enough to detect res 100 sensors of equal tech when they detect you? Still, upgrading a ship to have larger EM sensors does sound like a decent idea.

Looks suitable for the mission profile, though I think it's over-armored. I don't like the armament as 25 cm railguns are too heavy to be a good dual-purpose armament and for light anti-ship armament I'd rather use lasers for the range. Your BFC needs a longer range as it will currently have 0% accuracy at the maximum range of your weapons which compounds the already short-range weakness of railguns. Generally with BFCs there is little reason to have anything less than 4x range multiplier unless you are seriously starved for tonnage or designing a PD-only BFC in which case a range of ~100,000 km is adequate to get 90% accuracy or so. Finally, I'd reduce the active sensor size/range and bump up the passives, extra active range isn't helpful on a beam ship and if you want to tail/monitor/scout passives usually will do what you need anyways.
They are so armored because I want them to not die if they are tailing 1-2 NPR ships and the NPR start shooting. I went with 25cm railguns so the frigates would have more range because I didn't feel like their guns would stop enough missiles to matter anyway. Changing how their sensors are set up does make sense. I haven't invested in laser tech, and I don't really want to now due to the time it would take.

I'm not sure why you've chosen to develop both Gauss and Railguns, but this is a fleet threat not a tech thread so okay. I might have preferred 30% launchers to maximize salvo size (assuming you don't want box launchers for any number of reasons). Triple set of active sensors looks sensible. These should have a CIC or the jump cruiser should not, IMO, keep it consistent.
I didn't put a CIC on the cruiser because it had fewer guns, and I already don't have enough junior officers with Tactical skills.

This ship is going to die horribly in deep space. On one hand, you've got them set up for 9000 km/s speed which should indicate that they are intended to operate independently of the rest of the fleet (7500 km/s) - not IMO a good use of capital ships, but it is a valid battlecruiser doctrine so okay. However, these have zero point defense and will be easily torn to shreds by any missile fleet of appreciable mass. If you see this and decide to instead escort them with some destroyers, you're wasting 1/6 of your engine power/mass and forcing your destroyers to engage in combat at beam range where they are woefully unsuited.
I designed the Battlecruisers around fighting the Star Swarm. However, swapping their Particle Beams to 25cm Railguns would probably solve this problem well enough.

Technically if these are intended to operate independently (as a BC squadron rather than a full fleet, of course), a jump BC is okay but you want to dedicate the remaining weapon tonnage to defensive weapons, and a reduced particle lance armament is not that. I would also put a flag bridge here if they are intended to operate independently.
Looking at this again I'm not sure why I kept the particle lances on it. I will probably change it to railguns.

Personally, I would say that if you're going to use boosted engines on your support ships, you might as well go all the way and match your fleet design speed, especially since you should be relying on commercial ships for your day-to-day fleet logistics and using these as fast response groups that need to move with a fleet anyways. I also don't really see a lot of reason for these to have shields and armor as they should never get close to combat.
I guess that makes sense. The shields and armor were for if my fleet got caught flat-footed in transit, but I suppose the small amount the auxiliaries have wouldn't do much anyway.
 
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Offline captainwolfer (OP)

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2021, 02:29:50 PM »
having a whole distinct engine- and a good, research-intensive one- for the frigate is poking me right in the OCD.  feel you could get a good frigate at 4k tons using one destroyer engine.  5000-6000 tons is sort of a stratum for computer sensor resolutions, so being appreciably under that can be handy

i think you should find a way to fit some hangar onto the jump destroyer.  recon fighters are so freaking good, and if youre bundling several destroyer squadrons into a fleet, youll have some customizability; you could send along some boarding craft, or a box launcher pod, or whatever else.

much of the benefit of a beam ship is being able to mop up missile ships, and a waaaay smaller ship than the beam bc could do that just fine.  in fact a laser FAC or fighter to be carried by hypothetical jump-dd would be good value. 

if you were wanting a shot at kiting enemy beam ships, i imagine you could get enough deck space on the jump cruiser to lug a workable design about.  im imagining a 5000 ton parasite, a scaled-up beam fighter with ECCM and a tactical officer.

i feel there are four kinds of shields in aurora:  shields for arms-length beam fights, shields to induce the computer to shoot at the bearer, shields which should have been armor, and shields which should have been point defense.  i believe only your battlecruisers have type-1 or type-2 shields.
I instant all component research. I don't have the patience to wait for research to finish for every component design. I do agree that having smaller sensor ships probably would be better, but part of the point of the Frigates is to be seen by NPRs. I already have a sensor FAC design, and some fighter designs. Maybe I will fit a sensor fighter in a boat bay on the jump cruisers. That might work. I don't want to put one on the jump destroyers because I can build the Jump destroyers in the Destroyer shipyard without retooling.

One of the Beam battlecruiser's primary jobs will be doing Jump Point Assaults. I don't want them to be smaller because I want the ships to survive whatever an NPR or Spoiler can throw at them when they transit.
 

Offline Jorgen_CAB

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Re: Star League Ship Designs
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2021, 04:40:25 PM »
having a whole distinct engine- and a good, research-intensive one- for the frigate is poking me right in the OCD.  feel you could get a good frigate at 4k tons using one destroyer engine.  5000-6000 tons is sort of a stratum for computer sensor resolutions, so being appreciably under that can be handy

i think you should find a way to fit some hangar onto the jump destroyer.  recon fighters are so freaking good, and if youre bundling several destroyer squadrons into a fleet, youll have some customizability; you could send along some boarding craft, or a box launcher pod, or whatever else.

much of the benefit of a beam ship is being able to mop up missile ships, and a waaaay smaller ship than the beam bc could do that just fine.  in fact a laser FAC or fighter to be carried by hypothetical jump-dd would be good value. 

if you were wanting a shot at kiting enemy beam ships, i imagine you could get enough deck space on the jump cruiser to lug a workable design about.  im imagining a 5000 ton parasite, a scaled-up beam fighter with ECCM and a tactical officer.

i feel there are four kinds of shields in aurora:  shields for arms-length beam fights, shields to induce the computer to shoot at the bearer, shields which should have been armor, and shields which should have been point defense.  i believe only your battlecruisers have type-1 or type-2 shields.
I instant all component research. I don't have the patience to wait for research to finish for every component design. I do agree that having smaller sensor ships probably would be better, but part of the point of the Frigates is to be seen by NPRs. I already have a sensor FAC design, and some fighter designs. Maybe I will fit a sensor fighter in a boat bay on the jump cruisers. That might work. I don't want to put one on the jump destroyers because I can build the Jump destroyers in the Destroyer shipyard without retooling.

One of the Beam battlecruiser's primary jobs will be doing Jump Point Assaults. I don't want them to be smaller because I want the ships to survive whatever an NPR or Spoiler can throw at them when they transit.

I respect that you play the way you find the most fun... but it really is a shame to not research components. This is a big part of making hard choices and long term decisions on doctrines. As I play on really slow research it even hit me harder than most (I guess), I often have to spend many years to research some components and really complicated new ships can take decades to research, retool new yards and build the first ships. This means that many ships get shortcuts so I can get them out the door sooner rather than later and then upgrade them with more advanced technology later (if possible).