NPR difficulty modifier and universal settings

[Tikigod (OP)]

Been a bit of discussion on the Discord this afternoon about how exactly the game settings apply in regards to the difficulty % modifier and the specific % modifiers for things like research speed.

It seems the general assumption most are going with is that the general speed % modifiers are 'universal' factors that are applied to all player and NPR races alike, where as the difficulty modifier % that is applied to NPRs only is then applied on top of the 'universal' speed factors.... so a research speed setting of 50% and a difficulty modifier of 20% will mean NPRs research rate will occur at only 20% of the base 50% rate?

[DFNewb]

Been a bit of discussion on the Discord this afternoon about how exactly the game settings apply in regards to the difficulty % modifier and the specific % modifiers for things like research speed.

It seems the general assumption most are going with is that the general speed % modifiers are 'universal' factors that are applied to all player and NPR races alike, where as the difficulty modifier % that is applied to NPRs only is then applied on top of the 'universal' speed factors.... so a research speed setting of 50% and a difficulty modifier of 20% will mean NPRs research rate will occur at only 20% of the base 50% rate?

From what I understood difficulty is what they start off with ie Installations, starting RP, starting BP. At least this is how I remember it from VB.

[Father Tim]

Been a bit of discussion on the Discord this afternoon about how exactly the game settings apply in regards to the difficulty % modifier and the specific % modifiers for things like research speed.

It seems the general assumption most are going with is that the general speed % modifiers are 'universal' factors that are applied to all player and NPR races alike, where as the difficulty modifier % that is applied to NPRs only is then applied on top of the 'universal' speed factors.... so a research speed setting of 50% and a difficulty modifier of 20% will mean NPRs research rate will occur at only 20% of the base 50% rate?

From what I understood difficulty is what they start off with ie Installations, starting RP, starting BP. At least this is how I remember it from VB.

In VB Aurora, difficulty had no (direct) effect on research, it merely modified the wealth & minerals available to the NPRs.  So they didn't build any slower, they just had fewer resources with which to build.

[DFNewb]

Been a bit of discussion on the Discord this afternoon about how exactly the game settings apply in regards to the difficulty % modifier and the specific % modifiers for things like research speed.

It seems the general assumption most are going with is that the general speed % modifiers are 'universal' factors that are applied to all player and NPR races alike, where as the difficulty modifier % that is applied to NPRs only is then applied on top of the 'universal' speed factors.... so a research speed setting of 50% and a difficulty modifier of 20% will mean NPRs research rate will occur at only 20% of the base 50% rate?

From what I understood difficulty is what they start off with ie Installations, starting RP, starting BP. At least this is how I remember it from VB.

In VB Aurora, difficulty had no (direct) effect on research, it merely modified the wealth & minerals available to the NPRs.  So they didn't build any slower, they just had fewer resources with which to build.

Pretty sure difficulty affects their starting RP like I said previously.

[Ekaton]

Do starting conditions for NPRs change with what player starts with? It can make a big difference whether you start with 500 mil people or 5 bil. Not to mention the number of structures, tech and ship points.

[Ektor]

They scale depending on your starting situation, yes. And the NPRs generated in systems scale depending on your current build, as well.

[Father Tim]

Do starting conditions for NPRs change with what player starts with? It can make a big difference whether you start with 500 mil people or 5 bil. Not to mention the number of structures, tech and ship points.

Yes.  NPRs are created by random roll of (mostly) 50% to 300% of the (largest, if more than one) player empire.  Then modified by various settings and govenrment types.

[Tikigod (OP)]

Been a bit of discussion on the Discord this afternoon about how exactly the game settings apply in regards to the difficulty % modifier and the specific % modifiers for things like research speed.

It seems the general assumption most are going with is that the general speed % modifiers are 'universal' factors that are applied to all player and NPR races alike, where as the difficulty modifier % that is applied to NPRs only is then applied on top of the 'universal' speed factors.... so a research speed setting of 50% and a difficulty modifier of 20% will mean NPRs research rate will occur at only 20% of the base 50% rate?

From what I understood difficulty is what they start off with ie Installations, starting RP, starting BP. At least this is how I remember it from VB.

In VB Aurora, difficulty had no (direct) effect on research, it merely modified the wealth & minerals available to the NPRs.  So they didn't build any slower, they just had fewer resources with which to build.

This is exactly the reason I posted this.



As according to the new game option description for difficulty, difficulty scales NPR research/growth rate and potential other areas not included in the description.

It seems there's still a lot of "Assume it's the same as VB unless Steve explicitly said otherwise in the change thread" on how things actually work so actually clearing up how C# itself behaves without the VB behaviour assumptions seems a good first step in actually relaying proper information to questions on places like Discord. 

[Ri0Rdian]

I wonder, does Research % modifier affect AI too? Because if Difficulty does that too then we need to know how they interact with each other. I am starting to think research % only alters player, because if it does everyone then it means there is no way to alter just the AI.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I wonder, does Research % modifier affect AI too? Because if Difficulty does that too then we need to know how they interact with each other. I am starting to think research % only alters player, because if it does everyone then it means there is no way to alter just the AI.

No... and no... we have already done some test of this... The research modifier is affecting everything in the game.

If you set the research to 10% both you and NPR get 10% as much research from labs from a normal game.

If you then set the AI to 150% the AI will instead get 15% speed on research while you get 10%, this is pretty simple math.

I can't prove that the last is 100% true but I see no reason why this is not how it work or at least is suppose to work.

I at least know that NPRs research as slow as I do when I did a multi-faction earth start with few NPR on there... I'm pretty sure I will see them research faster if I also give them a substantial bonus in difficulty but I don't have the energy to test that right now. Someone else will have to do that... it should not be too difficult to find out.

[Ri0Rdian]

That is great to know, I feared double-dipping and I see it was for a good reason.

[Father Tim]

I wonder, does Research % modifier affect AI too? Because if Difficulty does that too then we need to know how they interact with each other. I am starting to think research % only alters player, because if it does everyone then it means there is no way to alter just the AI.

No... and no... we have already done some test of this... The research modifier is affecting everything in the game. . .

Yes, and yes.

The universal research rate modifier (a game setting) affects every empire in that game.  The Racial research modifier affects all empires of that race, and the empire specific research modifier (which is default set by government type) affects only that empire.  This last largely only affects starting research facilities per 100m population.

[Jorgen_CAB]

I wonder, does Research % modifier affect AI too? Because if Difficulty does that too then we need to know how they interact with each other. I am starting to think research % only alters player, because if it does everyone then it means there is no way to alter just the AI.

No... and no... we have already done some test of this... The research modifier is affecting everything in the game. . .

Yes, and yes.

The universal research rate modifier (a game setting) affects every empire in that game.  The Racial research modifier affects all empires of that race, and the empire specific research modifier (which is default set by government type) affects only that empire.  This last largely only affects starting research facilities per 100m population.

I said that the UNIVERSAL setting DID effect everyone.... no one asked about the racial setting... they asked about the DIFFICULTY setting which effect ALL NPR.