Author Topic: Titan II  (Read 2281 times)

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Offline alamoes (OP)

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Titan II
« on: May 03, 2021, 01:32:30 AM »
Titan I was smaller, and lacked missile defenses in sufficient number.     Titan II is the culmination of me not going out in my first real game because I was paranoid.     It has 520 anti missile missiles fired at 20 per 10 seconds.     31 Particle Cannons.     Why Particle Cannons?  Because a great man once said the best way to win in combat is to not get hit.     And the best way to not get hit is to outrange them.     If they get close, great for them, their DPS is better long term.     But 3x31 PBs have wiped the first NPR fleets I've run into without getting hit once.     

On a side note, I did it, my ships don't explode for no reason anymore!  (See Titan I)

Note.     Generally they hit about quarter to half the barrage.     So 8-17 is average.     This will do it though.     

Last note, I didn't cheat, but this is a game where Earth starts with historical population.     It runs perfectly fine, just massive unemployment on Earth, as production outstrips resources.     

Code: [Select]
Titan II class Exploration Cruiser      115,067 tons       2,432 Crew       24,435 BP       TCS 2,301    TH 5,625    EM 25,500
2444 km/s      Armour 10-210       Shields 850-510       HTK 644      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 90      PPV 392
Maint Life 8.  48 Years     MSP 131,944    AFR 1177%    IFR 16.  3%    1YR 3,276    5YR 49,135    Max Repair 2400 MSP
Magazine 520   
Minister    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Morale Check Required   

Commercial Magnetic Fusion Drive  EP1875.  0 (3)    Power 5625    Fuel Use 0.  49%    Signature 1875    Explosion 3%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 31.  7 billion km (150 days at full power)
Epsilon S85 / R510 Shields (10)     Recharge Time 510 seconds (1.  7 per second)

Particle Beam-16 (31)    Range 500,000km     TS: 10,000 km/s     Power 40-8    ROF 25       
Beam Fire Control R600-TS12500 (70%) (1)     Max Range: 600,000 km   TS: 12,500 km/s   
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R253 (1)     Total Power Output 253    Exp 5%

Size 1 Missile Launcher (20)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC5-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 5.  2m km    Resolution 1
Anund Gårdske AMM (520)    Speed: 17,800 km/s    End: 1.  9m     Range: 2m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 486/291/145

Active Search Sensor AS13-R1 (1)     GPS 96     Range 13.  5m km    MCR 1.  2m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS219-R100 (1)     GPS 140000     Range 219.  1m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS603-R460 (1)     GPS 1104000     Range 603.  5m km    Resolution 460

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 01:35:27 AM by alamoes »
 
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Offline serger

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 02:06:43 AM »
My bigassiest ones were 8BB76 class (8th generation BBs, 2376 year) battleships Robert Oppenheimer, George Gamow and Werner Heisenberg.

P.S. Sorry, wrong thread.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 03:40:53 AM by serger »
 

Offline xenoscepter

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 02:51:31 AM »
31x Strength 16 Particle Beams... holy smeg that's one HELLUVA broadside... The AMMs are nice touch, a very good ship overall. :)
 

Offline Froggiest1982

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 02:56:37 AM »
There are many things I would disagree but in the end, it has to work with you so I will just ask one question: wouldn't you be better off with 2 if not 3 power sources?

2 main and 1 for redundancy.

I am saying that because yes, you don't want to get hit but if you do and it ends up on your reactor you pretty much dead in the water with that speed...

For the rest it's still a nice "beast"
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 03:06:07 AM by froggiest1982 »
 

Offline Rich.h

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 06:23:18 AM »
Two big issues here, speed and armour.

The first one speed, this is a beam based ship and so needs to get into combat as fast as possible, once there it needs to keep up with other ships to maintain fire. At 2500kms this beast will lumber around and get kited by anything it comes across, even a 5kt ship with a laser fitted could destroy the Titan provided it had enough fuel. Not to mention any more than a 20 missile volley will hit for sure as the ship is slow.

Second point is about the armour, I think for a 100kt+ ship this is paper layers. It's own weapons could rip through itself in a single volley, yes you do have alot of shields but they could be easily stripped away given the slow speed of this craft. Once they are gone it's game over.

I love big battleships but they are a nightmare to run until you tech up somewhat, until then they require so much engine thrust you loose out most of the mass to that component alone.

My current equivalent to your Titan has had to wait until the mid fusion era, and then still needed a ton of other research backed up. It's not the most efficient of designs but I wanted something with a stupid broadside power.

Quote
Richellieu class Battleship      124 731 tons       4 094 Crew       66 063.9 BP       TCS 2 495    TH 7 207    EM 12 000
12037 km/s    JR 5-250      Armour 50-222       Shields 400-600       HTK 688      Sensors 280/280/0/0      DCR 382      PPV 311.08
Maint Life 2.23 Years     MSP 86 730    AFR 475%    IFR 6.6%    1YR 23 507    5YR 352 602    Max Repair 15015 MSP
Troop Capacity 2 000 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 4 months    Morale Check Required   

Zheng Thrust Military Jump Drive Class 8     Max Ship Size 125250 tons    Distance 250k km     Squadron Size 5

Zheng Thrust  Military Class 14 Fusion Drive (2)    Power 30030    Fuel Use 35.85%    Signature 3603.60    Explosion 21%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 000 Litres    Range 40.3 billion km (38 days at full power)
Goyal-Bargi Class 7 Shield Generator (1)     Recharge Time 600 seconds (0.7 per second)

Cole Armaments Class 4 Plasma Carronade (16)    Range 600 000km     TS: 12 037 km/s     Power 96-8     RM 10 000 km    ROF 60       
Twin Baurai-Sungte Class 1 Gauss Cannon Turret (3x10)    Range 50 000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 50 000 km    ROF 5       
Han Armaments Gatekeeper (4x10)    Range 1000 km     TS: 32 000 km/s     ROF 5       
Shroff-Katira Class 5 FireCon (4)     Max Range: 600 000 km   TS: 20 000 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
Shroff-Katira Class 1 FireCon (3)     Max Range: 60 000 km   TS: 20 000 km/s     83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
Fuchs-Alt Class 7 Fusion Reactor (2)     Total Power Output 2 289.8    Exp 5%

Kadni Sensor Systems Search Sensor Class 6 (1)     GPS 24000     Range 198.7m km    Resolution 100
Kadni Sensor Systems Missile Sensor Class 1 (1)     GPS 48     Range 19.1m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Frolov Systems Class 5 TH Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 280     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  132.3m km
Frolov Systems Class 5 EM Sensor (1)     Sensitivity 280     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  132.3m km

ECCM-5 (10)         ECM 50

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline alamoes (OP)

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2021, 11:10:42 AM »
I can make it faster and armor it up, that is easy.    I got my shipyard to 300k.     I don't know what to call the next thing, but it's going to be 300k with probably more PCs since they're affordable.     

This is my first actual combat ship.     Glad it's good.     Thanks for the advice as well.    I don't know how much I'll get the speed to, but I'll get it higher.   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 11:15:46 AM by alamoes »
 

Offline DeMatt

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 05:41:37 PM »
My thoughts:
  • At Magnetic Confinement Fusion, 2400 km/s is slow.  Civilian freighter-level slow.  If I reconstructed the engines right, they're 30% multiplier, right?  50% is still a commercial engine, and would let you build more powerful engines or smaller engines.  Or both!  Are you critically low on fuel, that you try to economize so much?
  • The AMMs are slow.  Decently accurate, but oh so very slow.  I figure I could build fighters that could outrun them and still be useful combatants.  Triple their speed - keep in mind that speed keys into the accuracy formula, so you shouldn't lose much of that by dropping agility.
  • One solitary Beam Fire Control is a weak point.  If it gets fried by e.g. microwaves, your warship becomes toothless.  If multiple smaller ships approach, you only get to target one at a time.  Add a second - possibly even a third.
  • You could use an ECM component to assist in defense, and ECCM components (one per fire control) to offset enemy ECM.
  • More engineering spaces - that 1000% AFR gives me hives, even if you do have the maintenance storage to make up for it.
  • I suppose you don't need passive sensors with that set of active sensors.
 

Offline alamoes (OP)

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 11:07:52 PM »
I made the next next generation weapons platform.     If you want speed, I'll give you speed.     Also a little bit of armor.     I'm not worried about the enemy breaching my defenses.     I'm not building this (yet?), it's for the memes, and while it's fast enough, I want more run time and am putting out better tech in about 30 years.   

Code: [Select]
Dreadnought class Battleship      444,049 tons       11,883 Crew       150,500.1 BP       TCS 8,881    TH 160,000    EM 102,000
18016 km/s      Armour 15-518       Shields 3400-510       HTK 2160      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 600      PPV 1,168
Maint Life 2.06 Years     MSP 327,097    AFR 2629%    IFR 36.5%    1YR 103,320    5YR 1,549,794    Max Repair 16000.00 MSP
Magazine 1,040   
Minister    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Solid Core AM Drive  EP32000.00 (5)    Power 160000.0    Fuel Use 26.83%    Signature 32000.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 125,000,000 Litres    Range 188.8 billion km (121 days at full power)
Epsilon S85 / R510 Shields (40)     Recharge Time 510 seconds (6.7 per second)

Particle Beam-16 (94)    Range 500,000km     TS: 18,016 km/s     Power 40-8    ROF 25       
Beam Fire Control R600-TS12500 (70%) (6)     Max Range: 600,000 km   TS: 12,500 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R253 (3)     Total Power Output 759    Exp 5%

Size 1 Missile Launcher (40)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC5-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 5.2m km    Resolution 1

Active Search Sensor AS362-R100 (1)     GPS 240000     Range 362.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS12-R1 (1)     GPS 58     Range 12.1m km    MCR 1.1m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS603-R460 (1)     GPS 1104000     Range 603.5m km    Resolution 460

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I say next next generation because it is way ahead of it's time, I have no need for a fast attack dreadnought.     As you've noticed, it has the exact same parts as on the other ship.     This is because 1000k research is killer.    Several researchers have died working on these projects.     Also, I erroneously thought the 20 particle beams reloaded slower.     They do not.     Will replace with Particle Beam 20s.     

Design doctrine.     I currently have a set up for 3 titans to fight in one battle as a squadron.     This ship can fight in one battle alone, and can target multiple ships, at once, a revolutionary concept I thought of, but didn't do to cut on costs.     It cannot be used for long deployments like the Titan II.     I will also need a dedicated ship tender, which I have already designed.     

21st century ships are insane already, can't wait to see how this game plays in a couple centuries.     It's only 2091.     

I might make this into an AAR so I can talk about the war and supply shortage and other stuff like the mars unrest.     If so, I'll link it here.     
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 11:09:28 PM by alamoes »
 

Offline Nori

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2021, 12:06:45 AM »
So one rather small note. I feel the need to point out that you have no other control points. On a ship this big I would for sure have a main engineering, CIC and Aux Bridge. Also, 125m litres of fuel is uh, a lot.
 

Offline kilo

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2021, 12:06:55 AM »
I made the next next generation weapons platform.     If you want speed, I'll give you speed.     Also a little bit of armor.     I'm not worried about the enemy breaching my defenses.     I'm not building this (yet?), it's for the memes, and while it's fast enough, I want more run time and am putting out better tech in about 30 years.   

Code: [Select]
Dreadnought class Battleship      444,049 tons       11,883 Crew       150,500.1 BP       TCS 8,881    TH 160,000    EM 102,000
18016 km/s      Armour 15-518       Shields 3400-510       HTK 2160      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 600      PPV 1,168
Maint Life 2.06 Years     MSP 327,097    AFR 2629%    IFR 36.5%    1YR 103,320    5YR 1,549,794    Max Repair 16000.00 MSP
Magazine 1,040   
Minister    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Morale Check Required   

Solid Core AM Drive  EP32000.00 (5)    Power 160000.0    Fuel Use 26.83%    Signature 32000.00    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 125,000,000 Litres    Range 188.8 billion km (121 days at full power)
Epsilon S85 / R510 Shields (40)     Recharge Time 510 seconds (6.7 per second)

Particle Beam-16 (94)    Range 500,000km     TS: 18,016 km/s     Power 40-8    ROF 25       
Beam Fire Control R600-TS12500 (70%) (6)     Max Range: 600,000 km   TS: 12,500 km/s     98 97 95 93 92 90 88 87 85 83
Tokamak Fusion Reactor R253 (3)     Total Power Output 759    Exp 5%

Size 1 Missile Launcher (40)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC5-R1 (70%) (1)     Range 5.2m km    Resolution 1

Active Search Sensor AS362-R100 (1)     GPS 240000     Range 362.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS12-R1 (1)     GPS 58     Range 12.1m km    MCR 1.1m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS603-R460 (1)     GPS 1104000     Range 603.5m km    Resolution 460

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


I say next next generation because it is way ahead of it's time, I have no need for a fast attack dreadnought.     As you've noticed, it has the exact same parts as on the other ship.     This is because 1000k research is killer.    Several researchers have died working on these projects.     Also, I erroneously thought the 20 particle beams reloaded slower.     They do not.     Will replace with Particle Beam 20s.     

Design doctrine.     I currently have a set up for 3 titans to fight in one battle as a squadron.     This ship can fight in one battle alone, and can target multiple ships, at once, a revolutionary concept I thought of, but didn't do to cut on costs.     It cannot be used for long deployments like the Titan II.     I will also need a dedicated ship tender, which I have already designed.     

21st century ships are insane already, can't wait to see how this game plays in a couple centuries.     It's only 2091.     

I might make this into an AAR so I can talk about the war and supply shortage and other stuff like the mars unrest.     If so, I'll link it here.   

Wow, this is becoming Hitler's super battleship sooner rather than later. But I like questionable designs myself and this one ship is heavier than an entire squadron on my last campaign. Well done, Sir.
I would still add command modules of the useful types, a second MFC and electronic warfare to make this ship even more badass. The best spoiler ECM would reduce your maximum beam range to 360k km.
 

Offline Rich.h

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2021, 06:04:20 PM »
Couple of points on your new version.

1. First up that MSP, it's massive and you mention having 3 of these in a fleet. So around 1 million MSP is getting burned up by 3 ships every 24 months. Going by my own games Industry I hope you have a couple of worlds with a few thousand MSP production factories each running 24/7 just to support that single fleet.

2. The AFR is massive too, so it's causing that huge amount of MSP to drain so fast. Definitely needs at least double the engineering spaces.

3. No jump drive, i'm not sure if you are planning to have this paired up with a jump tender for fleet movements over systems. Dropping off a bunch of beams in favour of a JD lets this class operate anywhere on it's own if needed, which then saves a bunch of minerals and fuel running a seperate jump tender. Also your jump tender has to move at least as fast as this ship otherwise it just acts like a dead ankle weight to the fleet, which is tough to do without using military drives.

4. The fuel capacity and range is huge. This will fly across about 10-12 systems on a single tank of fuel, but why? It is fast sure, but not fast enough to cover that distance in a short enough time to act as a reaction force to threats. So you still need lots more ships to cover the ground, in which case this ship now hogs half your civilizations fuel and never makes full use of it. It's acting as just dead weight slowing you down.

5. Only one missile firecon. I am guessing these are designed for AMM defence only, in which case if you get hit with multiple volleys you end up only protecting against one.

5. Two huge sensors consume alot of tonnage, you could easily have a variant of this ship with one type of sensor each. Since you want them in a fleet you get now two leaner faster more capable ships each.

Big ships are great and I love them, but until you hit the 1-2mt mark then they still need to be specialised, as the same basic rules still govern. Any ship that tries to do too much ends up suffering so much it looses effectivness. Be aware at AM level tech you could well face opponents that throw missiles with 25 warhead damage, moving at around 150,000kms+, and multiple volleys of 30 at you. You only need 4 such volleys to connect with this ship and the shields are gone, the armour is still quite thin for this tonnage.
 

Offline Agraelgrimm

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Re: Titan II
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2021, 09:17:09 PM »
Couple of points on your new version.

1. First up that MSP, it's massive and you mention having 3 of these in a fleet. So around 1 million MSP is getting burned up by 3 ships every 24 months. Going by my own games Industry I hope you have a couple of worlds with a few thousand MSP production factories each running 24/7 just to support that single fleet.

2. The AFR is massive too, so it's causing that huge amount of MSP to drain so fast. Definitely needs at least double the engineering spaces.

3. No jump drive, i'm not sure if you are planning to have this paired up with a jump tender for fleet movements over systems. Dropping off a bunch of beams in favour of a JD lets this class operate anywhere on it's own if needed, which then saves a bunch of minerals and fuel running a seperate jump tender. Also your jump tender has to move at least as fast as this ship otherwise it just acts like a dead ankle weight to the fleet, which is tough to do without using military drives.

4. The fuel capacity and range is huge. This will fly across about 10-12 systems on a single tank of fuel, but why? It is fast sure, but not fast enough to cover that distance in a short enough time to act as a reaction force to threats. So you still need lots more ships to cover the ground, in which case this ship now hogs half your civilizations fuel and never makes full use of it. It's acting as just dead weight slowing you down.

5. Only one missile firecon. I am guessing these are designed for AMM defence only, in which case if you get hit with multiple volleys you end up only protecting against one.

5. Two huge sensors consume alot of tonnage, you could easily have a variant of this ship with one type of sensor each. Since you want them in a fleet you get now two leaner faster more capable ships each.

Big ships are great and I love them, but until you hit the 1-2mt mark then they still need to be specialised, as the same basic rules still govern. Any ship that tries to do too much ends up suffering so much it looses effectivness. Be aware at AM level tech you could well face opponents that throw missiles with 25 warhead damage, moving at around 150,000kms+, and multiple volleys of 30 at you. You only need 4 such volleys to connect with this ship and the shields are gone, the armour is still quite thin for this tonnage.

I will add to that in the sense that having more than one ship like this, as he said is too much of a burden so you may want to make smaller ships, and i mean *smaller* and tag along for squadron fight. Make this the command ship.

The ship itself its too fast, wich means too many engines, too much weight. Last one was a slug, this one is diesel, however it burns everything too fast and if you lose it, well... You are in a world of pain. (And belive me, you could lose that ship, especially with not enough beam fire controls and missile controls. You need at least 3 beam fire controls and 4 missile fire controls. You can get away with 2 each, but its cutting close. You will only be able to deal with 2 targets for beam and 2 for missiles. Anything more than that will overwhelm you. (One guy had to deal with 17.3 million missiles being thrown by one NPR. I will let you digest that)

But really, the main problem im seeing is that you are getting too excited with the ship and being too exagerated. In this game usually less is more. You can probably cut half the ship's weight by regulating the engines, with less weight the speed will be easily maintained with smaller engines thus reducing the msp you will have to use. You may want to cut a few particles beams too. The more weapons you have more MSP you will burn. Especially when they start to malfunction. Then if your ship gets hit you will use more msp for repairs, and you can see where this will go. And you dont even need to be in a battle to lose that amount of MSP.