Anyone have a copy of 3rd ed rules?

[MWadwell (OP)]

G'Day All,

Well, the title pretty much spells it out - but to clarify, I am looking for the pre-SM#2 3rd ed rules.

(Background: I'm looking at the old scenario packs 'Crusade' and 'The Stars At War' - but to play them with the original balance, I need to modify the ship designs. And to do that I need to know what the rules were when they were written.)

I've seen copies of the R3rd ed rules on ebay, amazon, etc (not to mention already owning them), and I have a copy of ISF, but I also need a copy of the tactical rules.....

Any help at all would be appreciated.

[Brian Neumann]

The biggest difference is in the point defense.  Under the original rules standard point defense (d) had 3 shots with a decreasing chance to hit an incomming missile.  It started at a 1-9, then 1-7, then 1-5 ect.  Against capital missiles the point defense had to confirm the initial hit by rerolling a second time at the same chance as the first.  Di worked the same way but it's chance to stop a missile started at a 7 instead of a 9 and got 4 chances.  Crack crew added 1 to this chance, Elite added 2 with poor and green subtracting 1 and 2 respectivly. If a incomming missile was missed on the first attempt you could try to shoot it down with later attempts, although the chance obviously goes down.  Also there was an automatic miss rule on the pd weapons.  If your base chance was a 10 (ie 100%) then you rolled percentage dice and a 96-100% meant you missed.  This went down by 1% for every 10% you had over 100.  Ie if your base was an 11 then the miss chance was a 97-100.  This was an important part of why the Gorm were so hard to fight in long range missile duals due to their crew grades.

There were also some differences on the to hits for different weapons and slightly altered ranges.  About the only one that sticks in my mind was that the basic laser (L) had a max range of 8 instead of 12

Other difference was that anti-matter did x5 damage and advanced anti-matter was x10 damage instead of the x3 and x6 that it currently is.

I have played both scenario packs and they were a lot of fun.  Crusade also has the original weapon tables in it so you can use them to help rebalance things.  It also has the hull table and max speed's.  This is important because smaller ships had a max move of 6 so they could not outrun cruisers at all.

Hope this helps, it is all from memory and from the Crusade book.

Brian

[MWadwell (OP)]

The biggest difference is in the point defense.  Under the original rules standard point defense (d) had 3 shots with a decreasing chance to hit an incomming missile.  It started at a 1-9, then 1-7, then 1-5 ect.  Against capital missiles the point defense had to confirm the initial hit by rerolling a second time at the same chance as the first.  Di worked the same way but it's chance to stop a missile started at a 7 instead of a 9 and got 4 chances.  Crack crew added 1 to this chance, Elite added 2 with poor and green subtracting 1 and 2 respectivly. If a incomming missile was missed on the first attempt you could try to shoot it down with later attempts, although the chance obviously goes down.  Also there was an automatic miss rule on the pd weapons.  If your base chance was a 10 (ie 100%) then you rolled percentage dice and a 96-100% meant you missed.  This went down by 1% for every 10% you had over 100.  Ie if your base was an 11 then the miss chance was a 97-100.  This was an important part of why the Gorm were so hard to fight in long range missile duals due to their crew grades.

There were also some differences on the to hits for different weapons and slightly altered ranges.  About the only one that sticks in my mind was that the basic laser (L) had a max range of 8 instead of 12

Other difference was that anti-matter did x5 damage and advanced anti-matter was x10 damage instead of the x3 and x6 that it currently is.

I have played both scenario packs and they were a lot of fun.  Crusade also has the original weapon tables in it so you can use them to help rebalance things.  It also has the hull table and max speed's.  This is important because smaller ships had a max move of 6 so they could not outrun cruisers at all.

Hope this helps, it is all from memory and from the Crusade book.

Brian

G'Day Brian,

Thanks for the reply. My concern is that there are some small rules that I've missed, that have a huge impact on the scenario.

An example of this, is a single line I found on the bottom of the to-hit chart in 'Crusade' - "All BS and SS are +2 to hit". Using this rule makes the fixed defenses a LOT weaker, and substantially alters the balance of the scenario.

Another is the crew grade alters the point defense to-hit (which is one that I missed). Again, this affects the balance quite a bit, as by the mid/end of Crusade, a lot of the Terran ships have Elite crew grade. (And when you combine this with the BS/SS being +2 to hit - dramatically affects the balance of any scenario between Terran ships and Theban fixed defenses.....)

[Brian Neumann]

I see your point.  I just dug up my original copy, unfortunately it is in poor shape with pages falling off ect.  I did note that my description of point defense was wrong.  D gets 5 chances to shoot down missiles 1-9, 1-7, 1-5, 1-3, 1.  Di gets 4 chances and starts with 1-7.  Crew grade does make a difference.  Pm me if you have any specific concerns and I will try to get you an answer.

Brian

[Steve Walmsley]

I do have a copy of the 3rd edition tactical rules in very good condition. About 15 years ago I cut up the rulebook and put all the individual pages in plastic sleeves in a binder

Steve

[MWadwell (OP)]

I do have a copy of the 3rd edition tactical rules in very good condition. About 15 years ago I cut up the rulebook and put all the individual pages in plastic sleeves in a binder

Steve

G'Day Brian and Steve,

The problem is that at this point in time I don't know specifically what I need - which is why I kinda need the entire rulebook.

As I mentioned above, while a majority of the rules are the same, there are little differences between the editions that makes a huge difference in the balance of the scenarios.....

[MWadwell (OP)]

I do have a copy of the 3rd edition tactical rules in very good condition. About 15 years ago I cut up the rulebook and put all the individual pages in plastic sleeves in a binder

Steve

A quick note - I'm quite happy to pay for your copy. (If that would help....)

[ZimRathbone]

G'Day All,

Well, the title pretty much spells it out - but to clarify, I am looking for the pre-SM#2 3rd ed rules.

(Background: I'm looking at the old scenario packs 'Crusade' and 'The Stars At War' - but to play them with the original balance, I need to modify the ship designs. And to do that I need to know what the rules were when they were written.)

I've seen copies of the R3rd ed rules on ebay, amazon, etc (not to mention already owning them), and I have a copy of ISF, but I also need a copy of the tactical rules.....

Any help at all would be appreciated.

Hi Matt,

I think I've still got a copy I could send you - but it'll be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to look (we're off to Frazer Island for a wee holiday).

If you haven't got it before then, I'll have a hunt - you'll probably need to resend your address tho - when I checked the contacts folder it was the old cochlear email, with no snail mail!

[Steve Walmsley]

I do have a copy of the 3rd edition tactical rules in very good condition. About 15 years ago I cut up the rulebook and put all the individual pages in plastic sleeves in a binder

A quick note - I'm quite happy to pay for your copy. (If that would help....)

The problem is I would like to keep my copy

Steve

[MWadwell (OP)]

G'Day All,

Well, the title pretty much spells it out - but to clarify, I am looking for the pre-SM#2 3rd ed rules.

(Background: I'm looking at the old scenario packs 'Crusade' and 'The Stars At War' - but to play them with the original balance, I need to modify the ship designs. And to do that I need to know what the rules were when they were written.)

I've seen copies of the R3rd ed rules on ebay, amazon, etc (not to mention already owning them), and I have a copy of ISF, but I also need a copy of the tactical rules.....

Any help at all would be appreciated.

Hi Matt,

I think I've still got a copy I could send you - but it'll be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to look (we're off to Frazer Island for a wee holiday).

If you haven't got it before then, I'll have a hunt - you'll probably need to resend your address tho - when I checked the contacts folder it was the old cochlear email, with no snail mail!

G'Day!

I've just checked my e-mail address under "My Profile", and it's my current ANSTO address. But if (for whatever reason) you get my Cochlear e-mail address, then send me a private message....

Looking forward to hearing from you after you've finished your holiday.

[MWadwell (OP)]

I do have a copy of the 3rd edition tactical rules in very good condition. About 15 years ago I cut up the rulebook and put all the individual pages in plastic sleeves in a binder

A quick note - I'm quite happy to pay for your copy. (If that would help....)

The problem is I would like to keep my copy

I'm going to try and contact Marvin, and see if I can pay him to get a copy of your copy (if that makes sense).

Leave it with me....

[coldsteel]

Other difference was that anti-matter did x5 damage and advanced anti-matter was x10 damage instead of the x3 and x6 that it currently is.

Um, AM damage was 3X and AAM was 5X originally, then changed to 2X and 3X in 3rdR.

[MWadwell (OP)]

I've recently bought a copy of 'First Contact', and another difference, is that (apparently - I need a copy of 3rd ed rules to confirm (hint hint )) is that shear planes ('C') can mitigate force beams....

So the differences are:
[li] -AM and -AAM damage multipliers
[li] BS and SS being +2 to hit
[li] Point defense
[li] Loaded fighters being slower
[li] Activation rolls
[li] Shear planes affecting force beams (to be confirmed)
[li] Smaller ships being able to go faster that speed 6

Anyone else remember what else is different?