Comments Thread

[Profugo Barbatus]

Once an arm is sufficiently large, its mathematically very unlikely for all of it to be a dead end, barring hitting the limit on total stars. So if you're cut off from a particularly large expanse of known space, without having something comparable you can access, you run the risk of finding yourself stuck in a dead end spur of the galaxy while the empire that cut you off expands without competition.

However, if you've only explored 2 or 3 stars beyond that chokepoint and don't know about any further systems, then its hard to tell if you should be concerned about the cutoff or not.

[amschnei]

Oh, absolutely, a NPR that doesn't yet have a quadrant of its own should be very concerned of being locked out of expansion opportunities.

Still, in the situation where everyone has their own 4-5 stars of their own space I don't see the logic in them being afraid of being locked out of one region of a vast galaxy.

[JacenHan]

One concern an empire could have is that being locked out of an arm means that their available systems will be, on average, farther away and more difficult to exploit. While there may be a theoretically infinite number of systems down a single arm, having two arms means you have twice as many systems that are logistically feasible to use.

[Zincat]

The problem with this is that it's very heavily dependent on the topography of the galaxy, and since that's generated once you actually survey, it's impossible to know beforehand.
Also, this issue is almost nonexistant for races that do not start in the same system. It's really only relevant in a start with multiple races in the same system

In my opinion the only approach that makes sense is: The AI gets progressively more concerned and more willing to go to war if it finds less and less possible avenues of expansion.

Very hard to evaluate though. I think that after extensive testing on a live release we will probably know better what, if anything,  should be done about this particular issue.

[Steve Walmsley (OP)]

Very hard to evaluate though. I think that after extensive testing on a live release we will probably know better what, if anything,  should be done about this particular issue.

Yes, I agree.

[Bughunter]

Sharing a home system is a very specific scenario and probably need different rules for the AI. In that case being cut off from one arm is a major thing - but something to make it acceptable could be if the other faction accept a similar claim from you in return. I think diplomatic trades like that feel more realistic than "ok, you got 4mil people there first so its yours".

Edit: Not that I expect negotiations like that at this stage, but hope to see diplomacy going in that direction eventually.

[Jovus]

I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).

Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."

Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.

[Froggiest1982]

I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).

Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."

Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.

Maybe you could code based on BKM distance rather than just the system? I don't know if possible but this should quite get the feature you are describing. In this way to actually colonize an entire system you'll need multiple little mining colonies and colonies in general rather than just a big colony on 1 planet only.

Still, I don't know how the system claim would work though...I personally like the way it is structured right now but it is true I haven't played it yet, so I guess without testing on hand it's really hard to come to a conclusion.

[Vivalas]

I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).

Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."

Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.

Maybe you could code based on BKM distance rather than just the system? I don't know if possible but this should quite get the feature you are describing. In this way to actually colonize an entire system you'll need multiple little mining colonies and colonies in general rather than just a big colony on 1 planet only.

Still, I don't know how the system claim would work though...I personally like the way it is structured right now but it is true I haven't played it yet, so I guess without testing on hand it's really hard to come to a conclusion.

I think Steve said he tried but issues with micro from ships getting to close doing other things was an issue. I guess it would be alright if it just ignored distance to that system body though, only checking at ends of orders. So you don't have to worry about regular traffic getting too close and upsetting an NPR, but if you end fleets on waypoints or extended orbits or normal orders at those worlds they will get mad.

[Garfunkel]

Thanks for that last update Steve, it puts the videos in their right context.

That STO trick is nifty, I'll have to remember it for my own multi-Earth game!

[Marski]

Thanks for the update Steve, and thanks for the very interesting videos and campaign.
Looking forward to the next one.

[harpyeagle]

I've been having a blast reading this AAR.  Very interesting setup! Looking forward to the C# release when it comes.